Part 1 discusses how I treat my wife and why. Part 2 discusses the hierarchy and why it should be different when dealing with plates v. ltr/marriage.
Here at TRP/MRP we have a saying: "Men love women, women love children, and children love dogs" (or puppies, depending on who you hear it from.) This adage exemplifies a core belief of the Red Pilled Man - generally, love flows downhill while respect flows uphill. The love I show my woman, my child, and my dog, will never be reciprocated back to me in the same way that I love them. However, the respect I earn from my woman, my child, and my dog, will never be reciprocated back to them, unless they earn it from me. The oft used phrase assumes a hierarchy with man at the top, women below occupying the first-mate role, children further down, and dogs occupying the bottom. It is this assumed hierarchy I wish to discuss in these posts.
The inspiration came from an observation I made when dealing with my wife. A recent change in schedule resulted in her arriving home from work earlier than I do. The last couple of months my 70 lb mutt greets me at the door, tail wagging, jumping, barking, etc. - this is the norm, he does this everyday. My wife, on the other hand, while glad to see me home, did not offer the same enthusiasm at my return as my faithful canine. Sometimes she stood up from the couch to kiss me, sometimes she was in the kitchen, sometimes she sat there and said the stereotypical "Hi honey, glad you're home."
My reaction to my dog is similar in kind to his greeting of me. I eagerly pet him and let him jump on me. Then I calm him down and offer him some love because I left him alone for most of the day. My reaction to my wife mirrors her greeting as well. It is usually a quick kiss on the lips, a quick hug, and a quick smack on the ass as I go to change out of my suit. It is noticeably subdued compared to my dog. After a few weeks of these greetings my wife tests. "Honey, do you love the dog more than you love me?", "You always have such a loving greeting for him as soon as you walk in the door! I just get a peck, a hug, and a smack!" Some of us view this as a shit test while others view it as a comfort test. Whatever type of test it was the response should be the same. Agree and amplify verbally while escalating physically. Typically something along these lines: "Of course I love him more! Look at him, he's a stud and gets all the bitches, but he doesn't have your ass!", as I grab her, slap her ass and plant a huge and enthusiastic kiss on her lips. This quelled the questioning (and led to some good sex) but didn't actually solve the problem. She didn't change her daily greeting.
So I changed.
Another core tenet of TRP is that women are children. But in my case, I have no children, and her complaint revolved around my treatment of her when compared to my treatment of my dog. I pondered "what if when I get home, I greet her as I greet man's best friend?" The next day I did exactly that. After greeting my dog with the usual enthusiasm I immediately went to her and greeted her in the exact same way, using nearly the exact same words, with the exact same tone. Obviously I changed the names and gender pronouns to the feminine, but I was astounded at the immediate improvement in her response to my homecoming. This upbeat, enthusiastic, even juvenile greeting completely brought her into my frame, lifted her spirit, and helped provide for an exciting, fun, and sexual night. With each successive day her mood and spirits improved. After a week she now opened the door as I pulled into the driveway and she and the dog both came to greet me before I even entered the house. Currently, I get a mix of her meeting me at the door with enthusiastic kisses, coming to meet me in the driveway, having dinner waiting for me, and occasionally laying scantily clothed on my bed.
Why did this change happen? Why did my wife respond better to being treated like my dog as opposed to being treated like a grown human being? The simple answer is Feelz before Reelz. A more in-depth analysis reveals that my wife did not want to be treated like my intellectual peer. Telling her I was glad to see her and offering her a token kiss did nothing to satisfy her emotional needs. Yes, I verbalized my feelings but she did not want to be told. She wanted to feel that I love her. She wanted to be treated in a way that gave her a physical and emotional experience. Xtreme's More than Words comes to mind. Greeting her in the same way that I greet my dog was more fun, more playful, and more emotional. It allowed her to be caught in the moment and caught in my frame. As a consequence of now being in my playful frame, she was more willing to follow my lead for the rest of the evening. Whether I wanted to go fuck or go to my workshop to work on my business, my wife was more than willing to follow my lead. Why? Because her emotional needs were met. Now I have to admit, I treat my dog more like a young human than a canine. So I guess our tenet of "treat women like children" still holds true. But that wouldn't make for such a catchy title. I have extended this principle to nearly every other area of interaction with my wife with similar success, and oddly, I don't think she has caught on to the fact that I am treating her like the dog. She enjoys the enthusiasm, the playfulness, and the emotion of our interactions.
Part 2 will be forthcoming and will discuss the difference in hierarchy and treatment: Men -> women -> children -> dogs/puppies (1st mate thinking) v. Men -> women, children, dogs/puppies (treat them all like children thinking) And how to mix both.
Lift, Lead, DGAF
-Val
edited for formatting
MisterRoid 6y ago
Fuck that Dark Triad shit people keep writing about. What women really want is a Caesar Milan. I'm in a relationship and treating the woman like a dog works great. I didn't actually think much of it myself, but when I wrote on Reddit and another forum about the relationship, some said that I'm treating her like a dog (it was said in a negative way). I laughed, but realized that it's not so far from the truth.
Basically I give her attention and show affection when she behaves well. When she starts misbehaving I withdraw affection and ignore her until she submits.
Bandos15 6y ago
Great post. I do wonder if this will keep working, now its a new and exciting thing, the 100th time its not.
Raja479 6y ago
Having done this exact thing, I disagree
JeSuisSuperman 6y ago
Yeah I'm inclined to agree here, stimulus is stimulus until it becomes the norm right? Now, would someone have to go even bigger with their displays to increase stimulation, or just change the technique? OP keep us updated on this, maybe a FR in a few months or something
[deleted] 6y ago
On the flipside, how she is acting may become habitual to the point that no longer has to treat her like a dog and still reaps the benefit.
[deleted] 6y ago
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RPStone 6y ago
I highly recommend Cesar Millan's Mastering Leadership DVD series for anyone in an LTR or marriage.
His alpha/pack leader training style works wonders on dogs, and even more for women.
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yes_we_can_t 6y ago
A few quick comments: You treat her with enthusiasm, playfulness and emotion. You can do that perfectly well without thinking that she's a dog, with the same results. You should actually put that kind of heart into everything you do.
It's not a core tenet that "women are children", they are obviously not. However, it can be attractive to treat them "as children" in some ways, especially if that's a playful amused mastery type of reaction.
Finally, comfort and shit tests absolutely should not be treated the same way.
Completely different things.
playingwithfyre 6y ago
This is incorrect. A comfort test is actually testing reciprocity. She's trading sex for at least the illusion of commitment.
yes_we_can_t 6y ago
No, it's not incorrect.
If you're hitting on her and she perceives your SMV to be much higher than hers, you'll get comfort tests coming fast and strong, even minutes after meeting her.
playingwithfyre 6y ago
That's not a comfort test, she's calibrating and testing frame. It's still a shit test.
The beta response is some subtext or overt "you're beautiful."
To pass the shit test, you call her out for fishing for comfort\compliments.
You fail a real comfort test when you actually don't provide her with real comfort, a hug, compliment etc. If a woman is asking for comfort within minutes of meeting, that is not a comfort test. And if it's not a shit test, then it's still not a comfort test.
You have to understand just how inflated the baseline SMV is for a woman to understand why it's not an SMV issue. If Brad Pitt was hitting on a 6, she's not going to comfort test him. She's going to be putty in his hands.
yes_we_can_t 6y ago
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/06/18/value-shit-tests-vs-comfort-shit-tests/
playingwithfyre 6y ago
Yes, that's actually what I'm addressing. You've conflated a comfort test (which is an LTR thing) with a comfort shit test, which is a game thing. I consider that a poor naming schema by heartiste. You could call it better, a reverse congruence test.
An actual comfort test in an LTR requires the things he's talking about avoiding (because they're game killers).
yes_we_can_t 6y ago
There's no "comfort shit test" (edit: he's actually using that concept, I missed that, you're right about the naming scheme). It's either a comfort test or a shit test. It's not a game killer. It's a game killer to fail to recognize comfort tests, because you will be seen as just a player, just wanting her for her pussy.
Comfort tests in relationships is based in the same need for security. Hugs or compliments can be a valid way of responding, or simply words like "I love you, you're the only one for me".
If you want to continue discussing, please add some links to material showing what I apparently don't understand.
playingwithfyre 6y ago
It's not really linkable. The best way I can explain it is this.
90% of material on this stuff is PUA. All the LTR stuff is really an afterthought. But if you read for instance MRP or anything that is LTR focused, the responses to "comfort tests" are way way different.
What I experience in a 10 year relationship I would never ever, in a million years, expect in the field. Which is why I think it's more accurately a "reverse congruence test."
To be honest, she's not actually looking for comfort. Because if she was, the cheeky responses would not work.
I think we may be having a semantic debate, but I digress. What I'm getting at is what I know to be a comfort test, and anyone in MRP is absolutely not the same thing. And I've always seen comfort tests referenced in terms of STRs\LTRs, never in terms of game.
They are almost always part of the "what are we" talk. It is, to me, and you'd have to talk to other guys, not an issue of game, but actually more of a baseline human thing.
I think we forget when we get so wrapped up in technique and what not, that ultimately, game isn't the solution to everything. It's like the guys worrying about "losing frame" in a meeting. Like dude, great, you held frame and they fired you because you don't fit in? You DHV'd your boss and he promoted someone less threatening?
Ultimately, I've always viewed comfort tests as just that, will you show me comfort in a non-needy way? And also, not in a non-authentic way.
And in what they call a comfort shit test, the only pass is for a cheeky, non-authentic way. Basically like at a job interview when you tell them your biggest weakness is that you care too much.
The guys in MRP and LTRs will say when a real deal comfort test comes up, after you've leaned too hard on the AF button, they're looking for some genuine affection and comfort. Reassurance that even though you've demonstrated you can protect her, evolutionarily speaking, that you actually are interested in her outside of her body without demonstrating that you are a provider.
So I think this discussion is one part how do we set a boundary between game and LTR management and another part naming schema.
Because in the MRP community, you can't make a joke for a comfort test. You can make it light hearted, but you better have some genuine affectionate kino for her. And you don't get to fail more than one or two comfort tests before you're toast.
You could fail this "comfort shit test" if you're attractive enough and recover.
I simply see this as sloppy use of these words and insufficient online documentation for this. Furthermore, this community is extremely sensitive when it comes to critiques to it. So even though I believe this is an area of the content that should be further delineated, I'm not willing to waste my time on it.
But I'm sure plenty of guys at MRP would understand and agree with what I'm saying. Just as LTRs have challenges not faced with PUA, PUAs have issues that aren't present in LTRs.
yes_we_can_t 6y ago
I agree with everything you say here. I appreciate your comment. I'm an LTR/MRP guy too. Not married, not sure if I will be, but my goal has always been a successful LTR, currently in a 2 year long one. There's a lot you don't get with plates.
Most of the proven pickup stuff need adjustments in LTRs, though the fundamental world view remains the same. I think LTR management is the next real challenge for us to overcome. It's far easier to run many plates than to have one successful LTR. Break a plate, throw a new one in the air. Pickup has been solved, as far as I'm concerned.
All this said, there's no doubt that comfort tests appear in gaming too, where treating it as a shit test loses you the girl. I've lost girls several times before I understood this, especially after my SMV had increased. They feel you as insincere.
playingwithfyre 6y ago
Don't get married, only have a kid with someone that makes a lot more money than you. Make sure she has a strong maternal drive and is a caring person. But still don't marry her. FYI I am not married and that was a good choice.
valvadi 6y ago
The comfort test/shit test dichotomy is something I plan to touch on in part 2 because we see substantially fewer comfort test when spinning plates opposed to when we are in ltr/marriage. It falls in line with the two hierarchy models I mention in the post and how things differ slightly between the two.
F_Dingo 6y ago
Ha
My puppy likes to play a game called "keep away" with her frisbee. The moment she sees me going for it to throw it again. The moment I act uninterested about the frisbee is when puppy comes over with frisbee in her mouth and drops it at my feet for me to throw again.
Women also play this game as well.
Landry86 6y ago
I like it when my man feeds me, scratches behind my ears, and takes me jogging
NeoreactionSafe 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Thomas_Ellis
Funny how we took that quote and added the "Female Hamster" into our vocabulary.
I'm guessing that was by accident, but might have evolved in the course of discussing ideas related to the oiginal quote.
More about Alice Thomas Ellis:
I guess we sort of made her a hero because she was an early Red Pill Woman fighting against the Feminist influences.
[deleted] 6y ago
and I thought we called it hamstering because their rationalizing their bad behavior was akin to running on a wheel
NeoreactionSafe 6y ago
Like I said... somehow if we were quoting her originally things went off the rails entirely by the time we locked in the Red Pill terminology.
_MysticFox 6y ago
You show a lot of enthusiasm but I thought you're supposed to be grounded and controlled? Won't she see you as an excited child if this continues?
valvadi 6y ago
If you are reacting to her with babbling enthusiasm she will view you as a child. If you lead and act with enthusiasm and bring her into your frame, it's just the opposite. Men can be excited, enthusiastic, etc and still be in control of themselves and their emotions.
Reformed65 6y ago
There are times where having a smile is better than not.
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iwasbornred 6y ago
I tend to agree with the all children style. While there are times an adult woman is more responsible than a child or dog, not always.
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OUm0Zm57Zz 6y ago
Most useful! Thank you very much, u/valvidi.