Essay:
https://therationalmale.com/2019/07/19/the-wrong-girl/
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Excerpt:
The ideology of personal responsibility is the Swiss army knife of subjectivist rationalization. “Extreme Ownership” is a lot like the “just be yourself” non-response people will give you when they don’t know what to tell you about your lack of Game. It sounds like wisdom, but it’s really based on the presumption of knowing a guy must always find fault in himself before any other consideration. Guys rarely struggle with overconfidence, but tell him the solution to his problems lies in him self-deprecating more and that he can get behind.
In this subjectivism there are no outside variables. There is no intentional maliciousness from others, or extenuating circumstances, only how you react to them and what you did to bring them on yourself. All the blame for anyone’s bad condition rests on the shoulders of the individual:
- Your life is fucked up? Your fault.
- Your Game/relationships suck? Your fault for tolerating it.
- You think women are one way – a way counter to the popular norm? You’re just meeting the ‘wrong kind of women’.
Again, value judgements replace objectivity. If your life sucks it’s real easy to presume the individual is the cause of the suck. And any analysis (even the desire to objectively analyze) of other people’s will, motives or outside circumstance is always an excuse; a redirection away from owning the suck yourself.
Maybe that person was the ‘right‘ one all along, you just were the wrong one for her? Self-doubt is a key element in subjectivism.
MeansToABenz 4y ago
You are right. Fixing oneself is the key to becoming self-sufficient.
superman127 4y ago
I don't see the problem with extreme ownership because most times it really is your fault and even if it wasn't it doesn't help you any to start blaming other people for it.
jackandjill22 4y ago
Not necessarily. This in objectivity distracts from outside circumstances that may be hindering the situation. If the only response anyone ever gives is "Fuck you Suck it up the world doesn't suck it's your fault" then you're never actually going to get to the core of what the Fucks actually going on. A proper analogy would be a defense mechanism used to avoid having frank discussions with your psychologist.
BobbyPeru 4y ago
That’s pretty much OP’s main point.
The point about “extremely ownership “ is that people are using in in a cliche manner, and not really taking ownership
Nicolas0631 4y ago
Even if it is not your fault, you can't always try to fix it and making it your fault that the situation improved !
Standgrounding 4y ago
He just warns about taking that to the extreme and becoming all oh so insecure about your faults. Tune with yourself, but try your best.
redpillobster 4y ago
Ok, we’ll between Jocko and Jordan Peterson I’ve managed to get rid of a ton of my insecurities. Maybe what sounds obvious isn’t obvious, and Rollo is just shallow.
After all, if you believe the problems lie within you, that actually gives you POWER, because “you” is something you have control over.
Meanwhile, if you’re just some short, chubby incel, and you don’t take extreme ownership, your insecurities will skyrocket. Because what’s worse for your confidence than thinking you’re a victim, especially a victim of your own pathetic state of mind.
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Project_Zero_Betas 4y ago
There are times when things don't go your way because of innate obstacles (i.e. information assymetry, power imbalances). You need to recognize what's in your control versus what others can do to you because of their position in life vis-a-vis you.
Nicolas0631 4y ago
Sure, but this isn't the point. Even there it is your fault to not recognize it and to not act accordingly.
The idea is to play the best possible way including your knowledge that there other player out there with their different agenda.
And when you don't get what you want, to idea is not to complain about it or to feel like you are a bad person for failing, but to see what you could have done differently so next time you know and to craft a plan to improve with what is in your control.
Project_Zero_Betas 4y ago
The whole premise of information assymetry is that the other party isn't aware that there's a difference.
Agreed.
Nicolas0631 4y ago
This is true, but the first step for the other party is to recognize that could be the case and act accordingly.
For examples insurrances are well aware that the client has more information about their own situation than the company may ever hope to know. Theytake that into account in their strategy. Consumers knows that when they buy something they can't be sure of the quality/durability of the goods of the manufacturer and apply strategy to counter that.
For one life and key decisons (jobs / business / inter personal relations) there often ways to acquire more information and to take positions that minimize the risk. That's why you vet your women for example and may never marry. In business that's why you study the market, may investigate the track record of your partners, take insurrances and have a quality department whom goal is to double check everything is up to the standard. As a concrete example Warren Buffet has a rule to never invest in a business he doesn't understand. That why you don't see him invest in facebook even when everybody was saying that was the thing to do. That's also why traders never invest more than a few percent of their money in any given trade (like 2-3%).
While you may have less information at your disposal, it is your responsability to have a strategy to reduce the risks. You are still responsible for your choices, actions or absence of choice and actions. You can fail or succeed by chance, but a continued track where you get the most of your success and minimize the impacts and number of failure isn't luck.
Project_Zero_Betas 4y ago
I should've mentioned that the specific instance of IA I was thinking of involved multiple federal felonies conducted by a person who I assumed wouldn't be so stupid as to risk his entire career for an extended stay in Otisville (of course insurance fraud is also usually a state felony), but you're correct.
jalapenotrp 4y ago
In all honesty, I read the whole excerpt and then read the comments to try to figure out what the message of this post was about, I didn't even notice it was from Rollo.
He is getting too much into himself now. It seems like his priority is playing with words than actually conveying a clear message.
What the fuck is he trying to say?
That responsibility is an illusion? Responsibility is essential to live a good life . Without responsibility there is no accountability, without accountability there is no trust, and without trust there is no strong relationships ...and so on.
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BobbyPeru 4y ago
My interpretation is it’s how you react and how you think about the event that matters, not the event
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max_peenor 4y ago
Huh, that's a bit odd given that what we enjoy from you the most is when you write really obtuse stuff that requires some thinking and background to properly understand. It has been a great filter so to speak. It separates those that want to put in the effort to understand and participate verses those that want magical fixes and easy shit.
I don't think we are holding a writing contest here. Hell, I'd probably lose. But I will admit I'm a tad tired of throwing babies out with the bathwater.
Ridabewa 4y ago
Your comment has validity because subjectivity and objectivity always co-exist, and as such it’s impossible for Rollo, or anyone, to write a purely objective post.
However your comment is also invalid because it suggests the article doesn’t make sense, whereas the critical part of your response proved you understood it.
Rollo, like in most of his work, simply exaggerates the importance of the objective viewpoint that’s woefully missing in modern discourse.
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Gnosiis_ 4y ago
This one in particular had me reading over lines a bit. I agree though, I've always felt his concepts need to be a little more concrete rather than so abstract. The solution is to substitute mind-bending verbiage for their definitions, at least for the first time explanations.
redpillobster 4y ago
At first I thought you were talking out of your ass and you were an idiot. Then I read that bullshit fucking article, and you’re ABSOLUTELY FUCKING RIGHT.
Rollo is an idiot philosopher. That article is the antithesis of red pill. It’s an attack on white pill philosophy, which acknowledged all the truths of red pill but wraps it up in the “optimistic” view of extreme ownership and personal responsibility.
But Rollo’s biggest mistake is in assuming that personal responsibility is somehow easier than mere subjectivism or looking outside yourself. What a clown. The hardest thing you can do is put your life in order.
Diablo-D3 4y ago
I simply think he over complicated a rather simple subject
There are two kinds of things in your life: things you enjoy, things you don't enjoy. Those get put into two, further, categories: ones worth improving, ones not currently blocking improvements in the previous category[1].
For things you do not enjoy, you either have decided to stop tolerating it's existence in your life and are willing to focus on that, or you have decided it's time has not yet come and will persist in the background for now.
For things you DO enjoy, you have either decided that it is worth enjoying them, or you have decided that you have derived enough enjoyment from them for now and something better has popped up on your radar and you're perusing that.
Men decide things, it's what we have habituated ourselves into doing over the thousands of years of our existence. Either decide, or the worst option will be chosen for you by default. Guys don't have faults per se, they have chronic indecisionitis which leads to waffling on owning your shit.
[1]: As per TRP dogma, things are always worth improving, including yourself.
Chadster113 4y ago
Yea. I had to have a dictionary handy reading this and I am still uncertain if I understood itcompletely
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lazerkings70 4y ago
I take it you saw DDJ's videos on him, yeah?
trancedj 4y ago
Could not agree more. His style isn’t what it used to be.
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kantianluvboat 4y ago
I don't think you understand what "disprove" means. You use it incorrectly multiple times. You ever bother to take a critical thinking or logic course in college? This guy writes like philosopher. You're having trouble understanding him so you've decided he must not speak to his audience.
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kantianluvboat 4y ago
I think you misunderstand what it means to be a philosopher. I didn't say he was a prophet, he's just writing like philosophers write, and it's not always easy for the uneducated to understand. It doesn't mean you're stupid, but it does mean many of his writings will go over your head. Maybe he should call everyone a faggot in his post, that seems to be your shtick.
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BobbyPeru 4y ago
From what I’ve read, most readers missed the point of OP’s post, so there is probably some truth about your audience comment. However, I’m not sure that OP writes for Reddit, TRP as his audience in mind. After all, it is from his blog, so I assume his blog audience is his main intended audience, and TRP is secondary at best.
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kantianluvboat 4y ago
You had a lot of trouble "disproving" Rollo lol
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BillyRedRocks 4y ago
The only thing you're consistent in is working out and shitting on better men than you. You have to take so many leaps of faith for your criticism to be relevant let alone correct that the guild of the assasins would instantly promote you to head master. Then they would slowly and painfully fall apart because all you have is rhetoric.
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RedForEducation 4y ago
The mods have banned and muted many users who use internet pixels as their success-metric.
If you want to pat yourself for being the most popular person on reddit, post a cat meme.
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RedForEducation 4y ago
I can't keep up with your changing from comment to comment.
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RedForEducation 4y ago
Men or women
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RedForEducation 4y ago
Your question is driving me to the answer you want by making bad assumptions. Constantly
Not that it matters, you're shitting up threads as if your dating life isn't as easy as the other flaired users say and it's their fault because they aren't 21
BillyRedRocks 4y ago
Considering how you harp on how 90% of "The Red Pill" are "subhuman garbage" and how IQ is distributed I think we can all figure out why you have more upvotes.
But if you still don't get it - you dance for your audience, you tell them a few jokes, everyone has a good laugh, learning nothing and doing nothing. You sell your audience good feels = you get more upvotes, just like the blue pill salesmen on twitter.
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BillyRedRocks 4y ago
Oh! Look who's confusing himself on purpose now. That's why people come to TRP, to have a few laughs and to call themselves alpha - congrats, bro, you've figured it out.
You became a slave to your audience and naturally joined them in their social ineptitude.
The bottom line is - Rollo's readers are living better lives than they were before and we can all see examples of that in the wild.
Your minions are more socially retarded than they started and maybe they're losing some fat, and we can all see that - Captain save a hoe, Nascarnormie, batednibba and others. All the same story, all the same brand of delusions.
Chaddeus_Rex 4y ago
the problem with rollo and why I stopped reading him is that he never gives examples - his writing is too abstract to be useful, especially for a nooby.
He gives no tips and his tips do not make me better with women directly or indirectly.
For example, he speaks of hypergamy. Sure its an interesting concept - but how do I use exploit it to my success? He talks about subjectivity but how is it relevant to me and how do I use it?
In no cases does he offer tangible advice - making me suspect he himself doesn't know. Also, looking at him does not inspire confidence in that he knows what he talks about.
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BillyRedRocks 4y ago
He's communicating perfectly with his audience, the only one who pretends to not understand what's going on here is you.
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BillyRedRocks 4y ago
You realise his post is on his blog right? If people want to comment on it they do it there, he has a lot of engagement there => he's communicating to his audience just fine.
tl;dr you're pretending to be retarded, again, just so you can shit on Rollo.
_thechinaman_ 4y ago
As someone just passing by, I have no clue why you are writing this or what it is really even getting at. Feminism is gay and just apart of the same low effort castrating process of homogeneity we all went through in school? You didn't relate any of those things in the post but it seems like what you are trying to get at. I'm really surprised after the Red pill being here for so long that anyone is analyzing Twitter self-help advice. Do people actually consume this stuff who found the red pill?
kantianluvboat 4y ago
Downvoted for being a pompous faggot
Omnidempotent 4y ago
Weren't you just defending rollo in another comment?
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crashhacker 4y ago
Do you know where you are, faggot?
redpillobster 4y ago
Stop being a faggot, this isn’t your safe space. No one is being homophobic. Maybe you were born yesterday but most of us remember when faggot was used as a general insult for a little bitch, and the lgbtbbq movement re-appropriated the word to paint themselves as victims - ironically, at the height of homosexuality being cool and trendy in the early 2000s
BobbyPeru 4y ago
You know you have a SJW on your hands when he takes the word faggot literally. When I was a kid, it was just “fag,” but that was like a hundred years ago :-)
BrownGummyBear 4y ago
Bro, I’m a brown guy from the 90s, i still have to catch myself whenever I’m about to say “nigga” because apparently nowadays only “hateful bigots” use that word
Standgrounding 4y ago
Brb Taking the Rollo pill now
majani 4y ago
On this one I disagree entirely. SelfExtreme ownership is one of the keys to success and furthering yourself. As a matter of fact I'm willing to bet that most of us found ourselves here after owning the mistakes we made in dating. It's a much better route to take than the extreme victimhood route that permeates society right now
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Nicolas0631 4y ago
I must admit that the true value of that extract and of the full writing is carefully hidden lol. Except that when reading the full thing it look like and advertisement for a new book, I don't think there much.
brander20 4y ago
If you were writing scifi would your book's end goal for humans to have sex involve either a simply blatant contractual form of monitising relations as ultimately selfish, a sort of Randian rationalists make everyone into prostitutes, or would you accept a revival of the Zamyatin style of total equality sex? I'm seriously curious, and, pragmatically, want to use this world view for writing a dystopia because I think I could make money off of it and then go buy two hookers.
catbrainland 4y ago
It's more along the lines of Deleuze/Land. Many markets, many winners, one market less winners. Global markets encroach on territories like that.
Plot: Obesity and other unhealthy lifestyles destroy sex capital at such a rate it unexpectedly becomes the Great Equalizer, finally bringing world peace as incels stop declaring caliphates just because of being frustrated. When everyone GTOW, there's no longer a beauty contest. Money is pointless if you destroy the market.
Also, not sure this is the right sub for pseuding.