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- Hide Preview | 45 Comments | submitted 5 months ago by CainPrice [Post Locked]

Summary: Women are good at the sex and relationship game. Better than men. Women are all about having the sex they want with as little investment on their part as possible. But the number one female strategy isn’t spinning plates. It’s serial monogamy. A string of short term relationships that are primarily sexual, with just a little bit of investment to keep the reliable source of quality sex intact, that end as soon as either person finds someone better, gets bored, or gets too needy. Red Pill men often ridicule the idea of a “relationship” as involving too much “investment”, but a relationship may often result in more sex and higher quality sex for less time and energy than acquiring and maintaining plates.


The ideal male sexual strategy, by definition, would be the strategy that enables a man to invest as little as possible while still having the greatest amount of sex and the highest quality sex possible. Essentially, the best “sex-to-investment ratio”. The theoretical ideal would be having to invest zero dollars, zero minutes besides the time you spend actually having sex, zero attention besides the time you’re having sex, zero emotional energy, and so on, while women just fall out of the sky on to your dick and eagerly start fucking.

Obviously, the theoretical ideal doesn’t actually happen in the real world and most Red Pill guys aim for the more practical ideal: Every time you go out looking for casual sex, you find a woman willing to go home and have casual sex with you without wasting too much time, money, or emotional energy, and the woman finds you attractive enough that she’ll continue to have casual sex with you in the future, on request, with only a minimal investment on your part.

Even that more practical ideal doesn’t actually happen that often. No guy meets a woman to take home every single time he goes out, without exception. Even the world’s hottest men sometimes go home alone. And plates break. No woman continues to show up at your residence for casual sex indefinitely. They eventually want more from you or eventually find a boyfriend or eventually find someone else they like fucking better. Which keeps men running out the door every weekend to beat the bushes and meet more women, putting more time and energy into keeping their supply of casual sex going.

A slightly more realistic ideal would be that every man is supposed to find the ideal strategy that works for him - whatever strategy results in him investing as little as he can to get the most sex and the highest quality sex. For some men, that route is not going to be going to bars every weekend, but might be cold approaching women by day, or online dating sites, or his sex-positive friend circles, or even relationships.

A lot of Red Pill guys piss on the idea of having a “relationship” with a woman, because a relationship means you’re “investing” your commitment into a woman. But what is a “relationship”, really? It’s just a verbal agreement to be sexually exclusive with someone else. All it takes to end the relationship is a word. Either you or she can end it at any time for any reason and just walk away. And even though neither one of you is supposed to cheat, cheating happens all the time, and the only consequence of cheating is that the relationship usually ends if the other person finds out.

So does a relationship with a woman really require all that much “investment”? Only if you’re a needy “beta” guy. A “beta” guy who finally scores a relationship with a woman will run around trying to cater to her expectations and keep her happy. He will invest heavily in her because in his world, women who are willing to date and fuck him are hard to come by, and in his mind, he turns any girlfriend he dates into his future wife. He is then extremely hurt and pissed off when she doesn’t end up acting like a good wife, gets turned off by his needy behavior, stops having sex with him, and eventually cheats on him or dumps him. Conversely, an “alpha” guy who enters into a relationship with a woman tends to keep on living his life, fucks this woman most nights, and if the sex ever tapers off or she becomes unpleasant to deal with, he moves on because he has an easy time getting other women. Essentially, an “alpha” guy can objectively look at a relationship situation and make an honest call: is he investing more attention and emotional energy than what this relationship is worth? If so, he can cut the girl loose and move on.

Understandably, some guys prioritize avoiding attachments. For them, investing as little as possible into any woman is more important to them than maximizing the amount of sex they have or maximizing their sex-to-investment ratio. Even if investing a little bit more would get them a lot more sex, their priority is to avoid attachments and investment entirely.

But if you’re a more practical guy and your goal is to have as much sex as possible, and the highest quality sex possible, while putting in as little effort as possible (essentially, the best sex-to-investment ratio), that’s not going to happen going out to bars every weekend trying to meet new women. That’s going to happen with a girlfriend. You see your girlfriend 2-4 times a week, go out for food or drinks or a fun activity, then go home and have sex. Over time, she learns what you like, you learn what she likes, and the sex gets better. After a few months, she probably starts to try to exert some power over you, has less sex, tries to insist that you do various things for her, tries to get you to move in together, and so on. Eventually, the attention and emotional energy she’s taking from you becomes more than the sex is worth. If you’re an attractive guy who can get other women easily, this event usually happens a lot later in the relationship, but if you’re still a work in progress, this tends to happen a lot earlier. But in either case, at that point, you cut her loose and repeat the process with the next girlfriend.

Serial monogamy. It’s what girls do, and it works. If your goal is as little investment as possible, regardless of the actual amount of sex you end up having, stick with plates. But if your goal is the best sex-to-investment ratio that gets you the most and the highest quality sex, don’t piss on the idea of getting yourself a girlfriend. Just approach your relationship with reasonable expectations: Don’t get married. Don’t expect her to act like a good wife or think of her as a possible future wife. She’s not. She’s just the woman you’re having sex with right now. Know what women are like and what to expect, recognize her power plays and shit tests, string things along and enjoy the sex until she’s demanding more investment than she’s worth, then call her bluff: actually dump her and move on. Instead of letting her use your relationship as a tool to lock you down and get you to invest, use your relationship as a tool to get yourself more sex for less investment. Then discard it when it’s no longer doing its job.

As long as you’re getting lots of high quality sex for a little bit of investment, let her think she’s winning. Let her think she’s in control. Just enjoy the sex until she gets a big head and steps out of line, or until you find someone better, then replace her. It’s what women do, and it works.

[-] FereallyRed 104 Points 5 months ago

“You see this goblet?” asks Achaan Chaa, the Thai meditation master.

“For me this glass is already broken. I enjoy it; I drink out of it. It holds my water admirably, sometimes even reflecting the sun in beautiful patterns. If I should tap it, it has a lovely ring to it. But when I put this glass on the shelf and the wind knocks it over or my elbow brushes it off the table and it falls to the ground and shatters, I say, "Of course."

"When I understand that the glass is already broken, every moment with it is precious.”

[-] Crimson_Medicinal 22 Points 5 months ago

"With regard to whatever objects give you delight, are useful, or are deeply loved, remember to tell yourself of what general nature they are, beginning from the most insignificant things. If, for example, you are fond of a specific ceramic cup, remind yourself that it is only ceramic cups in general of which you are fond. Then, if it breaks, you will not be disturbed. If you kiss your child, or your wife, say that you only kiss things which are human, and thus you will not be disturbed if either of them dies."

[-] heartbroken_nerd 12 Points 5 months ago

Well, that's some sociopathic shit in most people's books.

I like it.

[-] Imperator_Red 5 Points 5 months ago

It's not sociopathic. People from the past dealt with death all the time. Death was a part of life. They had methods of coping.

[-] NakedOnCouch 1 Point 5 months ago

Yeah it's closer to stoicism and cynicism.

[-] odaklanan_insan 2 Points 5 months ago

It's part of living with awareness. Most people are not living with awareness.

[-] thebigfish07 18 Points 5 months ago

He who binds to himself a joy

Does the wingéd life destroy

But he who kisses the joy as it flies

Lives in eternity's sun rise.

[-] [deleted] 5 months ago
[-] [deleted] 5 months ago
[-] MethIsDeath 2 Points 5 months ago

This is such a pertinent point and has helped me understand my current circumstances with greater depth. I have heard it before, but this is true for most, if not all things in life.

Let's say you surf. You like a certain beach because it's unspoiled and not many people know about it. One day it may become overrun with people and lose its particular charm, but you are not concerned because you enjoy surfing in general, not just this beach, and there are many other great beaches out there.

The same applies to women. Abundance.

[-] KeffirLime 45 Points 5 months ago

I'm repeating u/sadomasochist here.

A woman's loyalty is at her own convenience. When you're hot and novel, she believes she'll be with you forever and she means it. But so does an alcoholic that decided they're going to stop drinking.

So ultimately the argument comes down to "would you feel comfortable betting on an alcoholic's agreement with you to never drink again?" The answer is probably not.

So simply enjoy it while it's good, until it's not.

[-] sadomasochrist 3 Points 5 months ago

sadomasochrist

[-] FereallyRed 1 Point 5 months ago

I like Keffir's version tho.

[-] Popular-Culture 32 Points 5 months ago

I work 50-60 hours a week and spend the rest of my free time commuting, in the gym, and preparing meals. I don't have time to game women during the week, and when I get to the weekend, I'm much less enthusiastic about going out to bars and clubs because I prefer to relax. It's significantly more efficient for me to be in a monogamous relationship than to spin several plates. I see my girlfriend 2-3 times a week. On the weekends I take her out to a low-investment activity such as brunch, movies, picnic, winery, and then we go to my place, have sex, and that's that. My sexual needs are met every week for a relatively low investment in a nice girl who I don't mind spending time with. If she starts to push for a more serious relationship or begins pressuring me to move in with her, then I will re-evaluate, and repeat the cycle if necessary.

[-] mountainbiker178 9 Points 5 months ago

I have a similar situation as yours, but I've been with my girlfriend for 3 years now. It's been wonderful but slowly, ever so slowly, she's giving more shit and I think it's time to move on.

[-] hammerhearth 12 Points 5 months ago

She's gonna play the 'where is this going' card soon. You're gonna have to buy a ring if you fail that shit test

[-] mountainbiker178 7 Points 5 months ago

That awkward conversation happened last year. It caused some drama, but she stuck around despite me dismissing any notion of marriage.

Not long after your first fuck, things just slowly but steadily decline. You can fight it, but you can't stop it.

[-] Imperator_Red 8 Points 5 months ago

Not long after your first fuck, things just slowly but steadily decline. You can fight it, but you can't stop it.

Dude this is so true. Been with my girl 6 months and started noticing shit. Less sex, and a bit of grumpiness. I think she noticed what she was doing and made an effort to correct it. This is almost more depressing though to be honest. These women aren't bad people. They want the fairy tale to be true just as bad as the betas. But they just can't help themselves. As the relationship progresses they start to lose interest, reduce sex, and increase shit testing.

I'm going to have to proportionally withdraw attention every time the sex slows down or she gets a little bitchy. She'll either conform to my expectations of behavior in the relationship... or she won't. This shit sure is a lot of work though. Relationships seem like your sex life on easy mode for a while. Eventually you realize you are putting in as much work to get laid from your girlfriend as you would with randoms. At that point it becomes no longer worth it.

[-] youngzari 7 Points 5 months ago

This shit sure is a lot of work though. Relationships seem like your sex life on easy mode for a while. Eventually you realize you are putting in as much work to get laid from your girlfriend as you would with randoms. At that point it becomes no longer worth it.

This is where am at. Honestly, it's a combination of not wanting to be alone but wanting to be left to myself.

[-] hammerhearth 3 Points 5 months ago

Isn't this normal for relationships?

[-] Popular-Culture 5 Points 5 months ago

Yes. The point of my story was to demonstrate how a monogamous relationship can be more efficient than spinning plates in certain situations, which is a counterargument to a segment of TRP that advocates avoiding monogamy altogether.

Monogamy can be in your best interests as a man if you do not over-invest by demonstrating needy behavior. For example, spending too much time with her, constantly texting her, buying her gifts, or general scarcity mentality. I try to remain aloof, emotionally detached, and independent, while still getting my needs met.

[-] hammerhearth 2 Points 5 months ago

I do the same. Works pretty well.

[-] Quaternionz 1 Point 5 months ago

Exactly this for me as well.

​

When I'm single I do well enough that I don't have that beta fear of being alone and involuntarily celibate. I can get dates and some casual lays when I put the effort in. Lately though, it's just not worth it. Swiping on dating apps takes time. Dates #1-3 before the lay take time, and money. I'm not a top 0.01% dude, and I have to put the effort in to get results. I work a full time job, try to see friends regularly, keep a strict gym schedule, and stay on top of errands. During the precious few hours that I have left on the weekend I study, work on hobby projects, run small side gigs, and try to improve my long-term financial prospects.

​

I have literally zero time left over for chasing tail, even though I would ostensibly want to if I could afford it. When I was younger, even not so long ago, I was really eager to figure out the game and rack up my N count. Now that I have it figured out there's just no point anymore. It's a waste of time and money once you have it figured out. There's nothing left to learn anymore, and even sex with 8's and 9's looses its thrill and the cost-benefit ratio goes to shit.

​

The 23-and-under party girls move on really fast. They'll fuck you once and then it's "You're just a player, I'm not looking for that." Or they'll fuck a few more times, but while also fucking other random party dudes while high and on E (you know, just an average Saturday night). Keeping their attention is hard unless you're living that lifestyle and can provide a non-stop train of 110% balls-to-the wall excitement every weekend, which isn't my thing.

​

A hot (enough) girl who you can get consistent sex from under the rough structure of a "relationship" is a great find. Plus, you never have to promise her commitment or even monogamy. You end up having sex with mostly her because it's convenient, good, and consistent, but you never promise her commitment. If you ever have another girl hitting on you then just go for it, don't feel bad. It's your biologically granted right to fuck as many girls as you can/want to, there's nothing morally wrong about it. Even when the main girl asks you if you're monogamous you can side step it for a long time by doing the amused mastery thing, laughing, and saying "Well, I'm here with you most of the time, aren't I?" If she keeps pushing you on monogamy then say "How a threesome instead?" If you deliver it with a sufficiently DGFA attitude she'll actually find it hot and will probably be up for it.

​

Your time and energy is limited and valuable, especially if you're working a full time job. If she gives you even 5 minutes of bullshit you're out the door and onto the next one. It's not beta, it's pragmatic. Yes, it's less Alpha than having 30 primo matches on Tinder every day and fucking a new girl every weekend, but for those of us who aren't Apex Alphas, the serial relationship thing is great.

[-] ChadowyFigure 30 Points 5 months ago

I've basically been running lady game my entire life. Letting them earn the money while I just move in and bone the shit out of them for years. Way less effort for the sex, and you don't have to work either.

One benefit you skipped - it is safer and easier to fuck bareback in a committed relationship. I hate condoms so much.

[-] Rupturednutsack 14 Points 5 months ago

That last sentence worries me. She better be crunching on that antibabypillen after you nut inside her

[-] ChadowyFigure 7 Points 5 months ago

I've been married to the same woman since before I found the pill. I literally go with her to the doctor and watch her have her IUD inserted every time (even before TRP, lol, I've always been paranoid about what women are after).

My previous relationships have all been with women who at least claimed they didn't want kids and would abort in an emergency, although I was more trusting about birth control in the past. I was always more worried about STDs; make sure she gets tested for them, but even that is no guarantee, so vet as best you can. Or resign yourself to bagging it up every time, I guess...

[-] itiswr1tten 15 Points 5 months ago

This is hilarious. You need to write an FR about running house husband game

[-] DIDNT_READ_YOUR_SHIT 5 Points 5 months ago

Watch out for her going back the next day to remove it...

[-] friendandadvisor 2 Points 5 months ago

Yes; hers has a new brand name: Skittles.

[-] [deleted] 5 months ago
[-] TitusDorsus 15 Points 5 months ago

Very good article.

The previous main plate I had and the actual told me that they weren’t about fucking other guys every weeks and prefer seeing almost only me because it’s enough and they have other things to do in life. I believe them. This doesn’t mean they are exclusive to me. It’s more that when they are in the city they won’t look for another guy fuck but if they are traveling or leaving the city and that they meet someone they might have sex with him.

That’s because they need it since I give them good sex and enough « boyfriend » confort without acting needy at all. They know that I am not exclusive at all and they are fine with it.

This situation for me is far better than going out and looking for a girl to bring at home. The sex is better, whenever I want and I don’t spend a lot of money and time.

[-] [deleted] 11 Points 5 months ago

Interesting counter perspective. One major caveat might be that the better you are at attracting new women into your life, the better this scheme would work.

[-] OneRedSock 9 Points 5 months ago

highest quality sex possible

We talk a lot about number of fucks, but not quality of fucks way too often here. I find the quality of the fuck goes way up the longer I'm with someone, until the limerance period fades (1.5 to 3 years in).

One night stands are fun for the stories and for the hunt, but the sex isn't typically as high quality as when it's with someone who I've been with a few times.

That being said, the great sex will fade after the following:

  1. 6 to 18 months after first fuck.
  2. You begin investing way too much in them (so fucking don't).
  3. Marriage

You can invest a very small amount of money and time, with the right kind of girl, and still get great sex. These women are typically in their early 20s.

[-] SeasonedRP 9 Points 5 months ago

This isn't a bad strategy and does work for some. The difficult part is not getting too attached. You can be as objective as possible the entire time yet still waste a lot of emotional energy when the inevitable happens. It's easy to lose perspective when you're with a woman for a long time, and the wake up call when you see signs of cheating, for example, is still stark and difficult to deal with. It's why exclusivity doesn't work for me. I need to have an option or two available for when a girl I'm seeing demonstrates AWALT. Those who find it easier not to get attached and who can find other options quickly may well find the strategy in this post to be viable. For me, something between it and pure plate spinning works best.

[-] jonpe87 7 Points 5 months ago

The more a read redpill, the more a think I should just read the 16 commandments of poon

VII. Always keep two in the kitty

Never allow yourself to be a “kept man”. A man with options is a man without need. It builds confidence and encourages boldness with women if there is another woman, a safety net, to catch you in case you slip and risk a breakup, divorce, or a lost prospect, leading to loneliness and a grinding dry spell. A woman knows once she has slept with a man she has abdicated a measure of her power; when she has fallen in love with him she has surrendered nearly all of it. But love is ephemeral and with time she may rediscover her power and threaten to leave you. It is her final trump card. Withdrawing all her love and all her body in an instant will rend your soul if you are faced with contemplating the empty abyss alone. Knowing there is another you can turn to for affection will fortify your will and satisfy your manhood.

​

XVI.  Never be afraid to lose her

You must not fear. Fear is the love-killer. Fear is the ego-triumph that brings abject loneliness. You will face your fear. You will permit it to pass over and through you. And when your ego-fear is gone you will turn and face your lover, and only your heart will remain. You will walk away from her when she has violated your integrity, and you will let her walk when her heart is closed to you. She who can destroy you, controls you. Don’t give her that power over yourself. Love yourself before you love her.

[-] sanos7 6 Points 5 months ago

OP, you might be right in theory.

On sex quality, I agree, the stronger the emotional bond, the better the sex.

On time investment, I guess it depends. Meeting plates doesn't have to be a big time sink at all, especially if you're meeting a lot of women naturally and organically as part of your weekly activities anyway. And spinning them can take less time than a GF; They just come over and you fuck as opposed to going on dates regularly.

Furthermore, I think you're not factoring in some costs and risks of serial monogamy vs. plate spinning.

If you forego on spinning plates in favor of serial monogamy you run the risk of growing more emotionally attached and you miss out on abundance and options. These factors can be a risk to your frame. You'll be stringed along more easily into an escalation of commitment to the girl and the relationship. You'll start caring to much. She'll start having more power.

Serial monogamy might be a valid strategy. But one has to be aware of the rewards (emotional bond, intense sex), risks (growing attachment) and costs (losing out on options and abundance).

[-] cupshadow 5 Points 5 months ago

You see your girlfriend 2-4 times a week, go out for food or drinks or a fun activity, then go home and have sex.

Why can't you do that with a plate? I kept non-committal short relationships for few months doing exact this.

After a few months, she probably starts to try to exert some power over you, has less sex, tries to insist that you do various things for her, tries to get you to move in together, and so on.

And not only that will eventually happen, it usually takes less than a year. Meanwhile, you can have a plate in the exact same expiration time. Plus, if you break up with her, you will have to deal with a lot of drama. They believe from the start that you will stick for long, trade gifts, meet her parents and so on.

So what's even the point?

[-] BoskOfPortKar 4 Points 5 months ago

Of course. Always had GFs then wife for 30 years. Unlimited good sex since then. No good sex ? Who would tolerate that shit ?

[-] yairof 3 Points 5 months ago

I find this post to be very insightful. "Sex-To-Investment Ratio" was by far my favorite and most useful nugget of wisdom. LTR's are seen in a negative light here. TRP gives you the tools to judge what a bad investment is so you can cut your losses early. It also helps you find a good investment that continues to pay you dividends but that is impossible to find if you do not have the right tools to tell if the dividends and return on investment is worth it. FRAME boys. Focus on your frame. That is the essential tool needed.

[-] Imperator_Red 3 Points 5 months ago

A slightly more realistic ideal would be that every man is supposed to find the ideal strategy that works for him - whatever strategy results in him investing as little as he can to get the most sex and the highest quality sex.

That's why I laugh when people shit on Tinder/Bumble. Like dude, I get it... you are not very good looking so it doesn't work for you. For whatever reason, it works for me though. What do you want me to do? Stop using this magical device where I flick my thumb for ten minutes a day and get dates?

[-] ihatebrkfast531 1 Point 5 months ago

Awesome post man, you've been killing it.

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[-] Varsel 0 Points 5 months ago