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- Hide Preview | 87 Comments | submitted 4 months ago by bright-morningstar [Post Locked]

I'm sure everyone is aware of talks like how men should not see women as sexual objects, how men shouldn't feel sexual feelings at everything, how men are vile animals if they get erections from the tip of the bare skin and so on. Maybe those sentences are not that direct in real life in our conversations but I'm sure most of you get the meaning. There are a lot of shaming and blaming for men going on around media and in our daily lives. Yes there are rapists, and there are perverts, no one denies that or denies to deal with those issues, these issues should be investigated and worked on. But trying to shame the other gender and gaslight them for their sexual feelings for your own security and for your own well-being in the name of equality is insanity. There are people whom do not know when to pull back or stop moving further. However as I see it, with the Blue Pill men increasing and Feminism getting increased in every population around the world, the gaslight effect on men's sexuality is incredible.

What is gaslighting? "manipulate (someone) by psychological means into doubting their own sanity."

What does women and blue-pilled men do to other men nowadays is nothing but a gaslight action. It is that sexual feelings are in our control and we should handle them appropiately, we shouldn't feel sexual attraction because the girl may not want that, or she didn't ask for it and it is your fault to feel sexual attraction. However these are all bunch of bullshit gaslighting ideas. In reality men don't have control over their sexual attraction and feelings, or they don't control over their urges. It is all natural and primal, but we are not taught that is normal, we are taught that this is abnormal and shameful. In reality men only have control over their actions after those urges, feelings arose in the body and mind, we're not full house logic creatures, we're primitive animals halfly, biologically. But the lies that are going around, and the pushing from feminist side makes men question themselves, question their minds and urges, and at the end men blame their own sexuality, they turn their back to those very urges that creates life and hence creates very damaging, unhealthy, obsessive, creepy movements like No-Fap which has 400-500k followers.

I myself got damaged a lot by this, No-Fap culture, and Feminism bashing men for the fake and unreal request of stopping the "Sexual objectification", where almost ALL of the women go around with camel toe yoga pants it is impossible to feel nothing. And blaming men for it is fucking incredibly a cruel thing. And what does men do? They are rying to solve a problem that is not a problem and waste their time instead of accepting the way thing are and trying to work on themselves. This bullshit should be stopped.

[-] PS2Errol 42 Points 4 months ago

Men will always see women as sexual objects. Always.

[-] throwlaca 50 Points 4 months ago

>Men will always see women as sexual objects. Always.

Its because thats what they are. Thats basically their only biological function. Women at work is a modern invention. They used to stay at the village having and raising babies, thats how we survived for millions of years.

They dont have any muscle, they are not built to work, they cant run or lift heavy things, they are built to fuck. Look at the size of them tits and hips, women evolved with a single function, thats why they suck at mostly everything else.

[-] Imperator_Red 2 Points 4 months ago

I love this sub.

[-] 0rientado 32 Points 4 months ago

Maybe because they literally are?

[-] Blackphish88 9 Points 4 months ago

They display themselves as such. Are you telling me a sports car being advertised for its speed and handling is in fact not for driving?

[-] huggyblossom -1 Point 4 months ago

Have you ever owned a Lambo or Ferari? Try to DD one and see why they are not for driving, but for show-off and track days mostly.

[-] HOSSY95 1 Point 4 months ago

If they can supposedly do what we can do, then the only unique thing they have to offer is sex.

[-] Pico144 41 Points 4 months ago

No fap is actually about wanting to feel greater desire towards real women, which is hindered by super stimuli that porn is. So you really missed the point here.

[-] iambecomechad1 8 Points 4 months ago

No fap makes you turbo-charged sexually and helps give off a natural alpha energy.

See “The Pheromonal Beta” in The Rational Male

[-] [deleted] 4 months ago
[-] KriegRipper -1 Point 4 months ago

I still have a great desire to REAL women. But I watch once at night.

[-] iamaiimpala 1 Point 4 months ago

If you watch porn once a day you have no idea what desire for REAL women is like. Cut the porn out. Even if you just did that and didn't reduce how often you masturbate I think you'd notice a difference.

Men's arousal is extremely visual. Porn is total overload and burns out your reward centers, making the response from the real thing drastically reduced, as well as skewing your expectations and standards.

I see The Rational Male was already referenced, I'll throw No More Mr. Nice Guy in the discussion. There is a section on healthy masturbation that I think does a great job of addressing the issue and recommends a course of action for people to "reset" their sexual desire and response to a healthy level.

I personally think porn and our relationship with it is a factor in the rise of the incel community and is one of the ways our society has responded to the vilification of masculinity, combined with the rise of PC culture and Blue Pill ideals.

[-] McVaghunter 31 Points 4 months ago

The only men shamed for having sexual thoughts are the low to average SMV men. If you're hot, I'm talking great aesthetics, not just good ones, with an excellent style and a solid personality, women in yoga pants will have no problem whatsoever with you 'mirin their camel toes and they'll agree to fuck you on the first date. But they sure as fuck hate it when a low SMV bacteria stares at them.

Fuck the low SMV man, become hot or go masturbate to death, I have no sympathy for men who refuse to work out, the more MGTOW or Nofappers there are the more pussy for me. Pussy belongs to men with a strong personality and if you can be gaslighted by a sex object (aka a female) then you deserve nothing but the incel life.

[-] bright-morningstar 3 Points 4 months ago

Fuck the low SMV man, become hot or go masturbate to death, I have no sympathy for men who refuse to work out, the more MGTOW or Nofappers there are the more pussy for me. Pussy belongs to men with a strong personality and if you can be gaslighted by a sex object (aka a female) then you deserve nothing but the incel life.

Well I would agree this if I didn't get abused, gaslighted and many other stuff by my own parents for a lot of good time. So after those kind of things you already have a pretty weak mindset about yourself and less trust in your thinking. There are a lot of men these days who gets the blow of fucked up marriages or the BPD actions of single mom. I would be thinking other factors that are affecting people to make them become incels before blaming them for them being weak. Even there are many incels out there for no reason, they didn't get the education about how to be a strong person but probably neglected.

[-] McVaghunter 17 Points 4 months ago

I don't blame incels for being brainwashed when they were children, I too was brainwashed to think there's a god, but as an adult you have to draw your own conclusions.

TRP is not quantum physics, it's dead simple, you see a very hot girl, you know you have no fucking chance of fucking her, just look at who is she fucking, guys with great aesthetics and a nice style... Become like these guys. But no, they just come up with the "I'm socially inept" excuses to cover up their laziness and I'm just supposed to feel sorry for them. Hell no.

[-] bright-morningstar 4 Points 4 months ago

I'm in the same boat that excuses don't help for anything. But I can feel sorry for them because when I was in their shoes and it was a harsh life. No one respects that kind of man. They're lazy because their parents did all the shit for them and obstructed the improvement of their sense of agency. Free-will is pretty conditioned imo, so I believe in compassion and understanding besides from TRP.

[-] _ramu_ -3 Point 4 months ago

Strange, I look at men who are getting fucked and I'm thinking, there's no way in hell I'm gotta grow higher a foot or two.

[-] Sluskarn 14 Points 4 months ago

Those are the cards life gave you, tough luck. You'll have to work harder in other areas to gain the same SMV as a taller guy. That's just the reality of it.

But you could become a top 20% man if you stop whining about your disadvantages and start focusing on developing strengths.

[-] adminsaregayniggers 0 Points 4 months ago

nah little dick indian guys like him don't stand a chance tbh

[-] _ramu_ -6 Point 4 months ago

Easier said than done if you've also got a shit face, balding and glasses. At this point NoFap sounds really tempting if it can get me programmed into an asexual being...

[-] Jwelou 10 Points 4 months ago

Get some trendy glasses, find a cool hat or hop on Rogaine for your baldness. Grow a beard to hide your shit face. Dress well, get swole.

[-] Howdoiusesync 8 Points 4 months ago

Nofap isn't about being asexual, it's about not wasting your time on stupid pixels. If you want pussy, go out and be a better man and claim that reward. Did you school or job coming knocking on your door for you to get or apply to?

[-] blokia_ 2 Points 4 months ago

Being short makes it easier to look big muscular wise, go lift. Balding sucks, but shave it off and own it. It breathes confidence if you're balding and say fuck it, I'm proud of it. Instead of nofap, maybe go on the noporn route. Masturbation is healthy, (too much) porn isn't.

[-] zyqkvx 5 Points 4 months ago

It's not that you are wrong. You are right. This is the 'niceguys' catch 22. Just because you are right doesn't mean that your strategy should follow. Instead of worrying about the gaslighting and looking for justice, use that knowledge to know you have to be high SMV or your fucked in life. Circumvent the whole fagish shitshow by remaining focused on improvement and having a high SMV in the present at all times.

[-] Miacek 2 Points 4 months ago

" Fuck the low SMV man, become hot or go masturbate to death, I have no sympathy for men who refuse to work out, the more MGTOW or Nofappers there are the more pussy for me. " - generally speaking women these days are only after good looks/macho-style behaviour men, they are not even after men with high status/money. As long as you are a good-looking macho plumber: just fine. Mitt Romney might be a sexually attractive man, but he's nothing compared with an average Guatemalan gang-leader thug.

[-] destraht 1 Point 4 months ago

Where I am many stuck up entitled women resent being looked at unless they are ovulating. It can get so bad that certain women will only be nice to a man that they find to be attractive while they themselves are actively wanting sex. Otherwise if she has no immediate use then the bitch comes out and stays there. Its really a matter of how women are conditioned to respond to men while they aren't moist. Most people are going to be pleasant towards others when they need something.

[-] largepaycheckaddict 1 Point 4 months ago

Low SMV men are mostly untermensch and deserve this shame for the blasphemy they’ve committed against the swole gods in not attending to their health, strength, and physique

[-] Bone_Coat 30 Points 4 months ago

I agree with you on the feminism, but IMO maybe you are overexaggerating NoFap, that for me it's more spiritual and tuned towards TRP than to BP, to sum it up NoFap is about being in control (holding your frame ...in some way) it doesn't establish that you can't /don't be sexual, it establish sexuality in a healthy way. If that's your vision about it, then it's ok, I won't try to convince you otherwise.

my view is: "Feminism, pornography and being Blue Pilled is toxic to men"

thanks for sharing your experience on that, Godspeed & blessings, man!

[-] surfthroughlife 24 Points 4 months ago

Being in NoFap for two years, this is their simple equation: Pussy > Pixels.

[-] bright-morningstar 10 Points 4 months ago

Thanks for sharing the thoughts. However if you really observe No fap it crosses a lot of weird lines like not fantasizing not feeling sexual and imagining women as your mother or sister etc. to disconnect from sexuality. Abstaining and not watching porn is good, I’m on that too. But the No Fap movement with its complete package is the monument of the Blue Pills. Guys don’t fuck women because they think they “should” create humanly bonds with them and shouldnt feel sexually attract or lust until girl permits them, that is the main thing going on there.

[-] HereComeTheIrish13 16 Points 4 months ago

Most of NF is really about not being a slave to desire, which I would argue is quite RP. When people do NF for its own sake then it is weird and probably counterproductive, but self control is a pillar of TRP and fighting addiction (and many men are addicted) is part of self control.

[-] zenman123 7 Points 4 months ago

A lot of people on no fap are porn addicts and most likely blue pill betas. I mean every other post there is about women, a lot of them pedestalize women and forget the core essence of nofap, which is self control and discipline.

[-] VapeScope420 3 Points 4 months ago

Thats definitely a strong sentiment in the community but I would argue its more of a byproduct of who makes up the base (ex: Rick&Morty fans making their culture cringey) than the ground beliefs of the community

[-] Gearski 1 Point 4 months ago

Not watching porn is healthy, the NoFap movement itself is one step short of a cult.

[-] rosbergsessa420 -12 Point 4 months ago

Porn isn't all that toxic, PROVIDED YOU ARE NOT MASTURBATING TO IT.

In a way it's like being a musician and listening to new stuff to stay updated and learn new cool things. With porn it's the same, you learn to fuck like the pros. But again it's very important that you don't masturbate to porn or set up that unrealistic expectation for your own sex life.

[-] zenman123 13 Points 4 months ago

Ahh just like a recovering alcoholic who should absolutely abstain from drinking alcohol but can swirl it around his mouth to stay updated on the taste of alcohol.

[-] rosbergsessa420 -1 Point 4 months ago

If it's something this person has absolute control over, then I see nothing wrong with it. It's so cool to say something is wrong to win the approval of the whole subreddit but objectively there are many ways to do things.

​

Saying that porn is bad doesn't prove anything.

[-] 5ubstanc3 3 Points 4 months ago

Ahh learn to fuck like the pros... and all ya gotta do is just watch!! So what exactly did you learn?

[-] rosbergsessa420 1 Point 4 months ago

Yeah okay it was more metaphoric than literal, it obviously implies practicing it afterwards. I mostly learned new positions, ways to "warm up" (it used to be my weakest skill), when/where to touch and just little details in general. I still watch porn and I don't think it's so much of a bad thing but to each his own.

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[-] caddydz 11 Points 4 months ago

Am not abstaining from Porn, Masturbation and Orgasm because the existence of my sexual urges is offensive to women and needs to be stopped. no fap isn't about shaming men for their sexuality and trying to stop it, It's about making a healthy boundary for the sake of the man's own happiness and well being. After all! Anything* taken to the extreme is bad

[-] throwlaca -5 Point 4 months ago

I masturbate to porn, usually before and often after fucking my girlfriend. I like porn, it makes me feel good, and if it makes me feel good, then its fucking good. Im smart and adult enough to not stay all the day doing it.

[-] caddydz 5 Points 4 months ago

You have a girlfriend to fuck so speak for yourself, I live in a shithole where it's almost impossible to get laid, I could barely lose my virginity at age 24. So am doing No Fap to get rid of addiction that's all. And I love porn enough that I developed my own site.

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[-] Parthanax1 7 Points 4 months ago

I'm gonna have to disagree with the nofap part. The community is naive and blue pill, but the practice of nofap can be okay.

[-] iamaiimpala 1 Point 4 months ago

Similar to other "pro-men" groups from what I've seen.

They identify problems, but their BP lens makes finding a solution trickier than it needs to be. MRA - Too much talk, not enough action. PUA - Effective knowledge, but superficial compared to TRP. NoFap - similar to PUA, the idea and intention is good, but the lack of a cohesive big picture tying everything together just means things get skewed.

TRP is the only community I've found that promotes unabashed self-improvement with a critical and honest perception of the world as it is. It's a tough pill to swallow, but once the veil has started to fall off the BP illusion that we live in, there's no going back. Many of the truths TRP offers are hard to admit, and harder to integrate, but once done, will benefit you greatly.

[-] throwlaca 6 Points 4 months ago

Abstinence is the worst sexual perversion. Ask the church.

[-] Beugmanz_55 5 Points 4 months ago

I support the general idea of nofap (abstanation) for phsyical and mental health benefits but there will always be a subgroup somewhere (aside from this forum) of blue pilled shinning white knights or people who want to live as if they're asexual.

I believe the main reason a lot of people on nofap are like this is because they have fucked themselves up from years of abuse and while trying to reboot have created a silly idea in their head to neglect or reject sexual urges because it could perhaps be a fear mechanism of getting back/staying in the rut they are in. They dont seem to realize almost every living thing is a sexual creature and it is completely natural. Bitches get as horny as guys, dont play the "asexual gentlemen", you got to embrace your sexuality and fuck with bitches (communicatively as well as sexually) as if it dont phase you and if it does then u gotta focus on yourself.

Bitches vs porn is a kill or be killed ideology i guess

[-] bright-morningstar 0 Points 4 months ago

My opinion is that even porn is healthier than doing this stupid stuff to yourself and wasting time like trying to not relapse etc. instead of going out in the world and creating strength and improving yourself. No Fap fails because it is not that porn or masturbation is bad. Okay porn might be unhealthy and addictive in some cases. But again the underlying thing is the always the feeling of guilt and shame. Men feels guilt subtly because they are not fucking they are just watching. They dont realize it is the frustration cry of their inner mechanism that wants them to go fuck some real women in the world. Men are completely cut off from their instincts and urges and that makes us open to brain wash and gaslight, that is why some men understand No fap is BS at first sight and others follow it crazy.

[-] UltimateCrypto 9 Points 4 months ago

I’ve been far more successful in my career and sex life with no fap. It’s also common for top athletes to avoid sex and no fap during competition.

Are you sure you’re living life at your highest level when you’re forming these opinions?

[-] bright-morningstar 1 Point 4 months ago

I'm not saying abstaining is a bad thing, or you shouldn't quit porn, I've also benefited from quitting the porn. I'm saying the ideology of No-Fap with its full package is Blue Pilled, they drop porn and masturbation in order to be able to see, feel women not sexually, but as human beings(whatever that means), and with many other things like repressing the fantasies and trying to connect with girl as not on a sexual level but more of a friend, getting to know each other level and feeling guilty when they get boners with their flirts, or rejects kissing them because that is not how things should be. Which is the opposite of RP approach in some ways.

[-] SeasonedRP 5 Points 4 months ago

I'm older. No fap is very odd to me. I guess it's fine for younger men with ED issues from spending all their time watching porn. But to me, it seems a lot like tradcons or feminists in terms of shaming men for sexual urges. I don't equate RP with asceticism at all, but evidently many do. If RP is ammoral, then one should be able to pursue whatever aims one wants, not be bound to live some austere life someone like Apostle Paul would praise.

[-] Hombremaniac 4 Points 4 months ago

Damn, if that's really what NoFap is, then it is scary.

I did not research them at all and just thought it's about quitting porn, not masturbate and instead focusing the energy for self-improvement as well as for getting bolder with women.

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[-] Warrior_King02 0 Points 4 months ago

What you’re saying there where people try to connect with women and shit, that comes down to the individual. I know many people on NoFap who are red pilled and they’re ducking doing great (myself included). They quit porn and masturbation because it’s a waste of time. It conditions you to a fantasy that’s not even real. Just another poison for the modern man.

[-] sengokuthebhudda 9 Points 4 months ago

Lmao. Porn is not healthy. It affects the neurons in your brain, and it affects your energy levels, especially if you constantly masterbate. Nofap at its core idea is great, you literally become the best version of yourself when you don’t dispense your life energy.

[-] Hjalmbere 3 Points 4 months ago

Porn can be fun if you watch it with a girlfriend/plate to get her more turned on or give her new ideas. Otherwise give it a pass, especially if you have some kind of addiction.

[-] Quo210 2 Points 4 months ago

I think OP is not accounting for the different sexual drives among males.

For some (I include myself) fapping will render you completely uninterested to pursue, game or even socialize for sexual purposes. Not to mention side effects such as low energy, no motivation, etc. that appear after fapping and last about 24 hours. I know others can jack off and be their normal selves in 6 hours, but phisiology is different for each one.

I think it's a mistake to demonize nofap, whatever your thoughts. If anything, they are helping more of the populace to take their hands off disgusting extreme pornography and they encourage you to look for actual person to person ways to release sexual tension.

From a purely neurological viewpoint, the orgasm is the biggest reward the male brain can obtain. Very few things can compete, and they are things like winning a competition, dominating someone in a social/physical situation and they still don't come close.

The brain does determine if the orgasm was induced individually or after a sucessful sexual pursuit, the hormonal releases for each is different. The masturbation orgasm seems to have evolved there to grant the hyperhorny sexually starved man release before he goes insane. It's not meant to be exploited at every chance (Nor ignored either)

[-] bright-morningstar 1 Point 4 months ago

The thing is, most of the wasted feeling after coming from fap is the internalized shame and guilt. And No-Fap not only continues that but takes to that extreme levels, if you talk with sexologists they will tell you that if you don't feel guilt you won't feel any different even if you do it every day and that is really true. Pornography is bad but guilt free masturbation once in 2-3-4 days is not something of an evil while we live in a sexually intense world.

Even though this is the case, I agree that there are a lot of free plates to have sex with, so fapping and porn is not a good option to take.

[-] Quo210 1 Point 4 months ago

It goes a bit beyond that hormonally.

After the orgasm is achieved Oxytocin and Prolactin go to very high levels. These hormones would be the antithesis of the dominant, aggressive male behavor induced by testosterone and dopamine. They are prosocial, agression lowering, relationship bonding, soothing hormones that secure the refractary period of the male orgasm. This hormones literally pussify you for a couple minutes, to the point no sexual stimuli will get you up until it's finished. Hence the sudden need to cuddle, hug, sleep after sex.

Now, the amount secreted, the tisular affinity and the speed at which they are removed from the system are different on every male and dependant on too many factors to establish an average for everybody, yet literature says 30min to 1hour. Now, the same literature says they can last 20, 36 even 40 hours in some cases.

Testosterone levels post orgasm are different for sex, masturbation and porn induced orgasms. While sex will have little negative effect on serum testosterone and increase on the next days, self induced and porn induced find a large negative spike in serum testosterone and see a slower build up of T-levels back to and above the individual's average values over 7 days, then starts to return to normal levels after that.

As I said before

the masturbation orgasm seems to have evolved there to grant the hyperhorny sexually starved man release before he goes insane.

Is it bad? No, It's there for a reason. But exploit it enough times and it will do harm. Ignore it while getting no sexual relief and it will do harm too. There has to be a balance.

[-] bright-morningstar 2 Points 4 months ago

From a biological stand point, masturbation only should've affect men whom living in the territory of survival, and not thriving, rest and living at the best possible health. Because these drops and highs in the hormones you described normally should go back to their normal levels after the peak and post-orgasm within sometime after it. But if the organism is not healthy, in cases like depression, anxiety, low self-esteem. The withdrawal of Oxytocin and Prolaction might want to warn the psyche for generation of more of them. So it could be understandable why males get addicted to porn more than girls, Oxytocin is a friendship, intimate, touch, keeping in touch hormone, and most men don't do it or are not be able to do it. It could be also reason why people love porn so much in the degree of addiction.

[-] iamaiimpala 1 Point 4 months ago

You're looking at things through my favorite lens (evolutionary biology/psychology) but you're missing the mark on the evolutionary part of that. "Should only affect men..." implies masturbation and its effects on a person are the result of evolution. Masturbation is not beneficial to reproduction. The only way masturbation would have an effect evolution is if it made an individual more or less likely to reproduce.

Taking that idea and looking at today's SMP, I'd wager chronic masturbators and porn addicts are excluding themselves from the next generation at a higher rate than those that have healthier views towards self gratification. Those that channel their sexual energy towards getting laid rather than clicking a few buttons and giving their dick a death grip.

Men and women are aroused in different manners, by different senses, which is one reason your "it could be understandable why males get addicted to porn more than girls" misses the mark.

If someone's brain chemistry is abnormal that should be addressed, and not used as an excuse or justification to support bad and often self-destructive habits.

[-] bright-morningstar 1 Point 4 months ago

The thing is you're totally missing the point by obsessing about masturbation and porn addiction. The problem is not masturbation or porn, they are not at the cause, there are underlying bigger pyschological factors, unmet needs of the person, that triggers and sends that person to go and do them compulsively, without eradicating and solving those problems the person won't be able to quit porn even in his dreams. Look at No-Fap reddit, how many of them are able to get over 1 week period let go of one month or a year? The things are not that easy and simple as it always looks out from outside specially when it comes to human psyche and its complex workings. So be careful when you claim big stuff about what is addiction and how that is against the evolution.

[-] iamaiimpala 1 Point 4 months ago

Since I'm replying to your post and the part of it that the majority of the comments are discussing I'm obsessing?

Masturbation and porn aren't underlying psychological factors.

You talk about unmet needs, triggers, compulsively acting. Take some fucking responsibility.

I'll pass on visiting NoFap, just like I pass on visiting just about every other "pro-men" community because none of them get the big picture in the way TRP does and they're all overwhelmed with BP bitches that think the band-aid they've found will cure them of being a Nice Guy and earn them that pussy that hasn't been presented to them atop a pedestal.

The things are not that easy? You think I'm commenting here with nothing but theorycrafting? If I didn't know it worked through personal experience I wouldn't be pointing out your misguided (though admirable) attempt at breaking down the problem and finding a solution.

You talk about things not being as simple as they look with the human psyche. So then what makes you so sure you're right? How can you frame masturbation as a response to a neglected childhood, undeveloped personalities, and lack of education, but in the same post try to argue that it's not only about the neurochemistry involved?

Our men turn to the wrong places for answers? Isn't that what we're here for? There's a massive masculinity vacuum in the modern world, with a terrifying lack of masculine role models for the younger generations.

Let me remind you of this subreddit's description.

The Red Pill: Discussion of sexual strategy in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men.

You seem obsessed with guilt and shame. Do you think that masturbation is harmless if you don't feel guilty or shameful? That's so wrong, take a step back, look at the issue with a critical eye. Things aren't as simple as you seem to think they are, so be careful when you claim stuff.

[-] bright-morningstar 1 Point 4 months ago

I'm not claiming your tactic is useless and doesn't work. I'm saying that porn is bad okay, but masturbation when freed from guilt and shame is not bad. I also talk from experience, reading, studying. I'm not theorycrafting, I experimented on myself first hand and did read and observed others experiences and how it affects them.

Not everything should have to be in line with what you think of "evolutionary route", most of the character traits of humans today are against the evolutionary traits of 100 years ago, but they pushed humanity way forward then the good ol' evolutionary traits of tribalism and many other stuff.

I can stop my jerking off for a month and at the end because of my thirst I can go kill a man from another tribe and fuck his wife and in turn their tribe might consider massacring my tribe, this is an absurd example but you get the meaning and the pattern behind it, or I might consider taking few deep breaths, jerk off without a guilt or shame in my tent, and consider how to get a woman to satisfy those needs of mine in the future with a clear head without creating suffering and bad shit. So you see it is not the masturbation itself against the evolution, it is how you look at things and how you use them. Men can go crazy and go pretty aggressive if not soothed their sexual drive in today's hard-core sexual market world. If you say if you don't ejaculate to a vagina you deserve not to masturbate, then I don't know what I can say to that.

There are many things that is really behind why men go and specially get addicted to porn, the mind sometimes do a lot of weird stuff that we are not aware of, like linking the unmet needs of the psyche like unconditional childhood love to sex, or feeling irritable to sex, masturbation, like relating every kind of mental suffering as solution to masturbation, because when you were adolescent you had no any other better soothing option so your brain is pretty conditioned to that relase of stress. When you have no other option of stress relief, you're bound to masturbate and watch porn, how many men today have options for stress relief and relaxation? If we really going to talk about for the common good of men, telling them masturbation and porn is unhealthy is not the way to take. Let men do masturbation but teach them why they do it, and why they feel bad. Let them open their eyes so they can take conscious steps. Telling them porn and masturbation is bad like it just sounds bunch of theorycrafting. Which to me every kind of opposition to masturbation looks theorycrafting to me after seeing all those BP incel community almost 1m followers following a BP pseudo fake scientist like Gary Wilson. I'm reading a lot of books about shame, trauma, childhood experiences, how men are shamed for feeling emotions in early age even by our parents and close relatives and how it causes pain and suffering in our lives. I myself was shamed for feeling my emotions(if you have also been shamed you might get triggered while you read that) and also if you go to any Sexologist they will tell you what is up with No-Fap, guilt, shame cycle of masturbation and why it is just the guilt.

Men are more capable than just being "taking some fucking responsibility" machine, which we did all our lives with getting nothing we've bargained for, it is time to seek another route, finding the Middle Way.

[-] iamaiimpala 1 Point 4 months ago

this is an absurd example but you get the meaning and the pattern behind it

Do you? The man in your example was driven to bloodlust and actual lust by abstaining from masturbating for a month. So which is it? Abstaining would be good for evolution, or chronic masturbation would be?

most of the character traits of humans today are against the evolutionary traits of 100 years ago

Again, you seem to touch on evolution being an underlying factor to be considered, but then you talk about it and it appears you have an extremely weak understanding of the principles and timelines involved.

because when you were adolescent you had no any other better soothing option so your brain is pretty conditioned to that relase of stress. When you have no other option of stress relief, you're bound to masturbate and watch porn, how many men today have options for stress relief and relaxation?

Holy shit dude quit playing the victim card. Go fucking lift if you need stress relief. Fucking read or write or meditate or lift some more if you need relaxation.

why they do it, and why they feel bad.

Shame and guilt are not an innate part of masturbation by design. If anything that's the only "gaslighting" related to the entire topic, and you're participating more in pushing that "shame" narrative than anyone I've come across discussing the issue before. It seems like those are central to your journey, don't think everyone is the same as you.

Men are more capable than just being "taking some fucking responsibility" machine, which we did all our lives with getting nothing we've bargained for, it is time to seek another route, finding the Middle Way.

What is more manly and capable than identifying a weakness in yourself and your fellow men and addressing it the proper way? Justifying and excusing your masturbatory habits because of your parent's shortcomings? Dismissing the actual psychological and physiological after-effects of masturbation as a "product of guilt and shame"?

Have some discipline, you talk about conditioning your brain, what do you think you're doing every time you have a passing thought about sex and turn to the computer and in seconds are watching an interracial gangbang, lighting up your neurons and fucking destroying your motivations, expectations, and arousal triggers.

Get over yourself. Fuck this pity party. Man tf up.

[-] Quo210 1 Point 4 months ago

Now that's interesting. I haven't thought about people emotionally bonding with pixels as our brains do not handle porn as something "not real".

And it makes a lot of sense. Yet another argument against porn from evolutionary psychology. Nice one. It's a shame porn addiction studies recieve so little help and are even silenced by the feminist infected academia. I'll remember this.

[-] bright-morningstar 1 Point 4 months ago

"A young boy who learns never to need anything emotionally from his
parents .. . is faced with a dilemma whenever he feels young, needy or otherwise insecure. If masturbating has been his principle source of good feeling .. . he may resort to masturbation in order to restore good feelings about self at times when he is experiencing needs quite unrelated to sexuality." (Healing the Shame Bind You, Bradshaw,J.) That is why I'm trying to call No-Fap out, the core issue is neglected boys with undeveloped personalities, neglected and uneducated people who been ashamed, now sooth themselves with porn because that is what they know, or video games. It is not only about porn spikes dopamine, or masturbation secretes oxytocin, it is deeper than that. But our men turns into wrong places for answers, and in the end, they hurt themselves more and wasting their time.

[-] iamaiimpala 1 Point 4 months ago

most of the wasted feeling after coming from fap is the internalized shame and guilt

What are you basing this on? There's a surprising amount of stubborn ignorance in this post from multiple users seeming to deny and hamster away the actual physical and psychological effects they have on a person, like they're all trying to justify their addiction to pornography and masturbation. So many people here seem to be trying to minimize or belittle the abundant anecdotal experiences shared here and in other discussions. (Check out the post from a couple days ago, How to Exude Sexual Magnetism for some more good discussion of this topic.)

[-] redpill77 2 Points 4 months ago

To give women the benefit of the doubt, we could say that they're trying things out. They are so ignorant of how things work, and pop psychology veers them further from truth when it comes to sexual dynamics. It's understandable that they believe sexuality can just be oppressed.

Really though, there will always be the pareto principle. If we want to talk solutions to the resentment caused by mass failure of a group's sexual strategy (in modern society, beta males) the two most feasible seem to be socially enforced monogamy, or segregation of the sexes. Or kill 90% of men.

[-] bright-morningstar 6 Points 4 months ago

To give women the benefit of the doubt, we could say that they're trying things out. They are so ignorant of how things work, and pop psychology veers them further from truth when it comes to sexual dynamics. It's understandable that they believe sexuality can just be oppressed.

Thank you for providing me this perspective. It is useful. But believing gender is a social construct just because one feminist scientist throwed that idea when it is pretty false by the other scientifical documents about gender just shows how women are really lacking the wish for the pursuit of real objective truth. I mean how many of women really did dig the internet to search if women and men are really the same or is it really a social construct? They just talk what they've been told by their peers because of social circle approval and for the benefit of being a victim in a demonic patriarchy. And that is not a good way of trying things out, maybe it is good for them but not for men, spreading unsupported information and trying to subdue other groups sexuality by ungrounded speeches. If a man didn't grow up in a Red-Pill environment, or didn't have strong father figure, or didn't suffer from the girls who used him for orbiting for a lot of good time and realized what is going on, if he doesn't have good IQ, he is sure to be beta male nowadays.

I think all men need is the "truth" not massacre.

[-] redpill77 5 Points 4 months ago

Women do not have a truth drive, it seems to me.

I think even a man with a high IQ might never become unplugged because how one thinks of women can go back to the most fundamental basis of one's philosophical perspective. To many pathetic men, women are saints

Imagine living such a pathetic life that years and years of disrespect, drudgery, loneliness, and pointlessness are excused for the prospect of love of a good woman. Most of us don't even have to imagine that; we've been there.

I am also against a massacre. But the other two options will receive so much opposition that you can bet that a culling would be proposed by plenty of people. I'm sure it already has been.

[-] bright-morningstar 4 Points 4 months ago

Wise words. Totally agree. How long it took you to get accustomed to the unplugging? I feel very existentially shaken, I'm new to fully swallowing to TRP even though I was aware %80 all of my life but I was rejecting to swallow it. All men around me are kind of aware of things but it's like there's a veil in their eyes and they can't see, and it shocks me to realize that I was like that for a good long time and did suffer because no one told me yeah you are right bro, lol. It feels depressing to awaken to the truth, did you have the same transition?

[-] redpill77 1 Point 4 months ago

I wouldn't say I'm done. It really feels like a secret society, and it's exciting, because I'm really starting to connect more with girls in a sane, positive way, but I don't know how to deal with the betas in general, or the ones I would like to call my friends, because they get jealous of the way their girls talk to me, the twist in her foot, the sway as she stands. Many notice and get jealous. Many don't notice and I still kinda feel bad for them.

But I do wanna fuck their girl. And sometimes these guys are bigger than me, not sure I could take em in a fight.

[-] largepaycheckaddict 2 Points 4 months ago

When you finally swallow the red pill, no woman on earth can “gaslight” you. Gaslighting is a victim term for people who refuse to adapt to the responsibility of maintaining frame. If you don’t hold frame it makes you prone to any type of parasite scum brainwashing you with their bullshit.

Always maintain frame, always call out bullshit, amused mastery when you smell the bullshit, never let a woman make you feel shame. If you are a person who walks with honor, dignity, and does the right thing you will mostly never be in the wrong which guards you against this “gaslighting” bullshit.

If someone is a serial gaslighted (AKA a compulsive liar) simply cut them off before the cancer spreads.

[-] machocornflakes 1 Point 4 months ago

Just an FYI, I believe you misunderstand the reasoning behind No-Fap. It’s more about improving confidence/frame and battling porn desires than putting women on a pedestal.

There are extremists everywhere ofcourse, but that’s the gist of it.

[-] andreas-mgtow 1 Point 4 months ago

No-Fap is just another shaming facet of the female imperative strategy. Anything that devalues pussy or does not directly result in a benefit to women must be stopped.

Fapping is a tool, some of us go out and shoot guns, or go fishing, or hire a pro for sex, or... whatever you do to blow out some steam.

When I am nexting a bitch for shit testing me or being a cheater, or for any reason, their last resort bargaining chip is invariably pussy. Post fap clarity can be your friend in taking a rational decision.

[-] Alpha27145 1 Point 4 months ago

I do nofap but not because some chick from buzzfeed told me to. I do it for the same reason us redpillers quite video games and weed. it fucks with your brain and willpower

[-] Mind_ripper 1 Point 4 months ago

I have more success with my

body, nutrition, sleep, discipline, motivation, drive, personal presentation and woman

On no-fap.

To me Porn is sexual junk food quick, easy, no skill required and leaves you feeling gross.

Porn induced erectile dysfunction is a real thing.

As for Feminist aren't they the ones pushing for sexual freedom, liberation and depravity.

Feminist are happy for women to do porn Feminist want women to do porn Feminist want women to loose their pair bonding instincts.

[-] valourtore 1 Point 4 months ago

On my experience with NoFap, I do actually become less socially anxious when out and about after a week or more of abstinence.

Which is to say that fapping regularly every day or every other day increases my anxiety. Psychological? Physiological? I don’t know. I simply know that NoFap helps bolster my confidence.

Past 20+ days and I flatline or become normal, with no anxiety and lessened sensitivity to porn fantasies (and more to normal (average) women)

[-] impolitedisinterest 1 Point 4 months ago

Anything taken to an extreme is obviously going to be a problem.

Same thing with NoFap. At the core it's about quitting porn, mastering a discipline and not wasting energy. Using this to be more productive and work on yourself.

You can take that aspect from it and move on without generalising everyone on the sub to be blue-pilled or asexual. People aren't really being shamed for masturbating. Most people there, are there because they want to improve something about themselves.

[-] Miacek 1 Point 4 months ago

The case for "no fap" has already been made in the "scholarship": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance\_Studies\_affair. As for " Blue Pill men increasing and Feminism getting increased in every population " - does it hold for Japan and South Korea: I always thought these were some kind of oasis of common sense in the midst of Cultural Marxist degeneration.

[-] MattyAnon 1 Point 4 months ago

No-Fap culture, and Feminism bashing men for the fake and unreal request of stopping the "Sexual objectification", where almost ALL of the women go around with camel toe yoga pants it is impossible to feel nothing. And blaming men for it is fucking incredibly a cruel thing. And what does men do? They are rying to solve a problem that is not a problem and waste their time instead of accepting the way thing are and trying to work on themselves. This bullshit should be stopped.

It's a shit test, nothing more and nothing less.

Pay it no further heed.

[-] immaculacy 1 Point 4 months ago

I understand why you'd feel bad about all that's going on, because the sexual world is really shitty right now. But I don't agree with what you said. A few things... " In reality men don't have control over their sexual attraction and feelings" Yes they do, and if for some reason they don't they need to learn that. It's basic decency. It's not for the women or for equality, it's for yourself and loyalty to the one woman you choose to be with. Who cares if someone is wearing yoga pants? Ignore it. A feminist wife would probably be much more ok with you doing that than a loyal traditional wife you wants you to herself romantically and sexually. Monogamy is a very anti-feminist idea.

Now, no one should be wearing yoga pants in public. It's stupid clothing made only for attention. It's basically long underwear, thermal underwear, long johns, same thing. Girls say, "I'm not doing it for guys I just want to be comfortable!" but they would faint if they had to wear a pair of $9 sweatpants from wal-mart, which are more comfortable and cheaper. They do it to look good. Period.

Also I don't see anything wrong with no fap at all. It gives men power over themselves and it's physically and mentally better for health and energy. The

people so far I've seen against it have been feminists calling it toxic and a few guys who can't stop masturbating calling it stupid. Your opinion is the first I've seen and I don't get your disagreement with it? What's wrong with it?

"they turn their back to those very urges that creates life" This I agree with but I thing we agree for the wrong reason. You're not going to be creating life with some thot you see, so you should turn your back to that.

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