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- Hide Preview | 73 Comments | submitted 2 months ago by CainPrice [Post Locked]

Summary: The Red Pill involves accepting that the world of sex and relationships doesn’t work the way we’d always thought. Essentially, this involves giving up on a dream or fantasy we used to have about how our lives would go. The loss of how we wanted our lives to turn out is a real and significant loss. We go through the stages of grief over that loss the same way we would if we lost a loved one. That includes anger. That includes depression. But the final step of grieving is acceptance and moving on. Learning how to find fulfilment in the real world now that we understand it better.

When something tragic happens to a human, he or she experiences a period of grief. During that grieving process, the person feels a wide range of emotions, beginning with the initial shock of the experience and ending with acceptance and moving on with their lives. It turns out that grief isn’t limited to actual tragedy, like the death of a loved one or having your limbs blown off in a war zone. People feel grief for all kinds of things.

Some mothers go a little batty when they’re 40, have three boy children, and realize they’ll never have a little girl. Some husbands and fathers go a little crazy when they hit middle-age and realize that all of the dreams they had when they’re younger will never happen, and they’re going to work until the day they die, taking breaks to enjoy watching their wife and kids prosper in a suburbia where they never imagined themselves. Some girlfriends go a little crazy when they’re 34 and thought they’d be married at 25, and today, the only guy from Tinder who’s stuck around to date her seriously has been a 42-year-old divorced, fat single dad and if she marries him, she’ll never experience being a first wife and having a first kid with someone.

When we have an idea for how we expect our life to go, even an idea we don’t necessarily think about and acknowledge very strongly, and it’s just how we always sort of unconsciously imagined things would be, and then that idea doesn’t work out, we feel a sense of loss. Even though nobody died and we didn’t lose a limb, we still feel grief. We go through the exact same grieving process we would experience if a loved one had died, but instead of grieving a human we’ll never see again, we grieve for the dream or fantasy we used to hold on to that we will never experience.

A long time ago, or a short time for some of us, we thought that if we were kind and respectful to women, studied hard in school, got a good job, made enough money to provide for a wife and kids, and started trying to date, women would like us because we were kind and respectful and were able to build a future with them. We though that around age 25-27, we’d find a woman maybe a few years younger who would love us for who we are and appreciate how good we were to her. We would date for a year or two, get married, start a family, have a home filled with love, happiness, sex, and respect, and live happily ever after with our loving wife and our growing children.

Even if we didn’t sit around fixating on our imagined future and acknowledging it as our dream, it was an idea we had about how our lives were supposed to go. And it’s such a normal-sounding idea that we never realized how much of a dream and a fantasy that idyllic life really is. We weren’t dreaming of being an astronaut or cowboy or president. We were just dreaming about getting a college degree, a good job, a wife, house, and kids, and living a normal life. We didn’t realize that the normal life was a fantasy.

Then, in our 20s, no matter how nice we are or what job we work, women find us boring. Even the ones we thought were good, decent girls constantly pass us over to have casual sex with fun guys who aren’t nearly as nice, respectful, or able to build a future with them. Time passes and we’re in our late 20s or early 30s and still not married. When we finally do get married, much later in life to a woman who’s a few years older and a few years sluttier than we pictured in our minds, and have a couple of kids, we’re happy for a little bit and think that our life is back on track. Then things get a little weird. It’s not the happy home filled with love, sex, and respect we thought we’d have. It’s a life of constantly fighting with our wives over nothing and sleeping on the couch, then learning she’s been cheating on us for the last year while we worked to support her and the kids, and getting divorced, seeing our children 1.5 times a week, and barely being able to afford living in a tiny apartment on the bad side of town after paying our wives off.

Maybe we don’t all follow exactly that path, for sure, but the principle is the same: We thought our lives were supposed to go a certain way, and we learn that this perfectly reasonable way we expected our lives to go is just a dream. A fantasy. And we realize that our life is not going to go that way. And even though nobody died or lost a limb, we feel a sense of loss over that dream, and we grieve for it.

Truly “taking The Red Pill” is accepting this loss, and eventually moving on from it. Recognizing reality as real, fantasy as fantasy, and learning to function within reality by setting expectations that match the real world. Only by living in reality and meeting or exceeding our goals there can we reach actual happiness. Focusing on dreams is just a path toward disappointment.

If you pay attention, you may notice that men who find The Red Pill tend to pass through the same stages of grief observed when someone loses a loved one. Because losing our dream for the future is every bit as real of a loss as losing a limb or a parent. Sure, maybe it’s not quite as large or tragic of a loss, but it’s a loss all the same.

First, there’s denial. You think that this Red Pill stuff is just crazy, ugly virgins on the internet who hate women, and the women they talk about are just a small segment of bad girls, but that you’re different. You’ll work hard and be a great guy and you’ll attract one of the good girls. Your girlfriend won’t cheat or drop you suddenly. Your marriage will last. But the more you read and the harder you try, the more you realize that everything you’re reading from other men describes the same experiences you’ve had. That we’ve all had.

Then, there’s the anger-phase. You hate women, society, and “beta” men who enable women and society. Maybe you even hate The Red Pill for sounding right. You start to think that women getting their just desserts and having trouble with asshole men is funny. If you’re attractive enough to have casual sex, you start treating women badly. If you’re not, you go the MGTOW/trad-con route and start pretending it’s your choice for moral or philosophical reasons or the crazy incel route and fantasizing about a male uprising and plotting to shoot people. A lot of guys spend a long time here, because anger keeps us from having to face our own demons and accept responsibility for our own failures. It’s easier to blame women, society, feminism, genetics, some kind of alt-right conspiracy theory about the Jewish Illuminati secretly controlling the universe to destroy the nuclear family, or whatever floats your boat.

Eventually, some guys hit the bargaining phase. Okay, you think to yourself. So maybe this Red Pill stuff is right, but if you do it just right and you vet your women really well and find a true “quality woman” that you can train…some ideal woman who’s 18.5 years old from a stable home with a good father and a partner count less than X who’s kind and submissive and whatever else – then, everything will work out for you. You did all the reading, you’re acting all the right Red Pill behaviors, you’re looking for all the right and wrong qualities in a woman. You can do this. If you do it all just right, you can still have that happy life with a wife and kids filled with love, sex, and respect.

Then comes depression, because that doesn’t work. Even Red Pill guys who are sexually successful go through this phase. After enough casual sex with enough women, it starts to feel empty, because even though you did everything right and it got you laid and it got you better girlfriends, you still hadn’t let go. You were still looking for a substitute for the dream you used to have. But what you found wasn’t as good as the dream. How can it be? It was reality, and you were trying to use reality to fill a dream-sized hole. And you wonder what the point of it all is. Guys who aren’t successful hit this phase sooner because they try out this Red Pill stuff hoping for an easy trick to get laid or get a girlfriend, and it turns out not to be an easy trick, so they arrive at depression, figuring there’s nothing left and they’ve tried everything now and even this last ditch crazy Red Pill stuff didn’t work for them.

Finally comes acceptance. You’ve truly let your dreams and fantasies go and have set reasonable expectations based on how things actually work. You’ve found things that bring you fulfilment without requiring women, or anyone else, to play along, but you also know how to fairly reliably get somewhere with a woman when you feel like it. The world isn’t your oyster. There are limitations on what you can do and accomplish, same as all of us, but you’re okay with that because life isn’t so bad after all.

It’s okay to feel sad. Realizing that the world of sex and relationships doesn’t work quite the way you’d always thought is something you’re naturally going to grieve over. It’s okay to feel angry, and depressed, or even both at once. Don’t let anybody tell you that it’s not okay to be an angry man or that you were stupid for ever having the dream you had. We all had that dream, and losing it made all of us angry. That’s what spawned The Red Pill. Nobody talks about this and nobody is here for men in this capacity. Part of the reason The Red Pill is here is so that you know you’re not alone. You weren’t stupid for thinking something perfectly reasonable to think, having what seemed like a perfectly normal dream, and getting angry when that didn’t work out. You were normal, and that’s fine.

But now it’s time to move on, stay focused on the end goal, and find your place in the real world. And that path is simpler than you think. Hone your body – work out, eat right, pick up some physical hobbies that interest you. Excel professionally – get educated, get a good job, make bank, save most of your money, and even invest wisely and maybe do a side hustle. Hone your mind – read, learn skills and hobbies, stay informed. (And read shit other than manosphere websites.) Our ancestors weren’t sitting around crying about women. They were playing sports, creating art, building shit, being productive, and having fun. Women happened as a by-product of a life well-lived. But fulfillment came before women came.

[-] warlordchad 143 Points 2 months ago

A long time ago, or a short time for some of us, we thought that if we were kind and respectful to women, studied hard in school, got a good job, made enough money to provide for a wife and kids, and started trying to date, women would like us because we were kind and respectful and were able to build a future with them. We though that around age 25-27, we’d find a woman maybe a few years younger who would love us for who we are and appreciate how good we were to her. We would date for a year or two, get married, start a family, have a home filled with love, happiness, sex, and respect, and live happily ever after with our loving wife and our growing children.

This is what we were sold as kids, and the fact it's not true is, in a large way, what's wrong with modern society. Because there isn't a payoff. Playing by the rules and working hard and being virtuous as it turns out, doesn't work.

It should, but it doesn't--and I think this is why we see so many disaffected young men struggling to figure out what the hell they should do with themselves. They see their counterparts--girls who are 18-24--out there going crazy, fucking Chads, slutting it up on social media, and then turning around at 27 to ask on Bumble for a guy who's basically perfect: "6 feet and over, have your shit together, never married, no kids, no fish/deer pics, etc."

And it's like, hey wait a fucking second? Is this really what I signed up for? To marry a girl who's been run through by men on 4 continents and is now an entitled brat who wants to cry about her #MeToo moment while simultaneously blogging about her rape fantasies, knowing that 50% of marriages end up in a divorce in which the man basically bends over and takes it?

That's what our society doesn't understand. That when this is the reality--when this is the game--there's only one way to win, and that's not to play.

That's basically what TRP is all about: men who refuse to play a game that's been rigged against them.

[-] le_king_falcon 14 Points 2 months ago

My feelings on the modern world all summed up in one comment. Even pre TRP I felt this way about the rat race, TRP just made it clearer and allowed me to define my beliefs as something more than the feeling of being shortchanged by society.

[-] thrwy75479 9 Points 2 months ago

Old age is both expensive and painful: being truly alone, with no family, no friends because you're retired and most of your social contact was from work; and you're talking to strangers for company who respond only out of pity.

Truth is, marriage may not be the best scenario for everyone but, for most people, a healthy marriage to a good woman, remains light years ahead of the alternative even in the current climate. It is far more rewarding than a lonely existence.

Of course there's a risk it goes sour, but that's true of everything. Starting a business? It is more likely to fail than succeed. Staying healthy? You could get cancer. Stepping out for a walk? You may get hit by a car. Sleeping around? You could catch a disease. So why bother doing those things? You have every right to not get married due to the inherent risk, but don't call that winning. Sky diving is extremely dangerous. Do I not do it, and say that I've won? It's absurd.

For examples, look at the most successful people on the planet. By far, the majority are married, or were married, and they have kids. Every species on this planet exists because it procreates. If you didn't procreate, you've failed at the most basic biological level. You didn't win.

When you've chosen not to breed, who's winning, you, walking around with your cane, or the guy who's fathered 2 Olympic gold medalists, or a chess champion, or the kid who grew up to cure cancer?

It is deeply disturbing that TRP considers the former "winning".

[-] itsjustsimon- 14 Points 2 months ago

In summary: I’m afraid to grow old alone, so I need to rationalize why it’s better to take a bet.

Until this fear will follow you, you’ll never be free my friend. The world has done good job brainwashing you that the worst thing that can happen to you is to be alone. Let alone no one told you that this comes from inside of you, not external things, people and family included.

You’re born alone and you die alone. Until you really get this, you’re not truly redpilled and you’re not truly free.

[-] himsenior 2 Points 2 months ago

This is why we eat mushrooms.

[-] daymi 5 Points 2 months ago

Of course there's a risk it goes sour, but that's true of everything.

A greater than 50% risk.

For examples, look at the most successful people on the planet.

I really don't care what other people think/do.

If you didn't procreate, you've failed at the most basic biological level.

I can decide what my goals are - and procreation is not it. I didn't fail because I didn't set out to do that in the first place.

What's next? Eat shit because millions of flies do it? That's a silly way to decide what to do.

It is deeply disturbing that TRP considers the former "winning".

TRP doesn't care one way or another, but the societal pressure is very much to the father-some-children-and-carry-on-humanity side, so it makes sense to stress that there is an alternative and you get to decide which you take.

[-] MattyAnon 3 Points 2 months ago

a healthy marriage to a good woman, remains light years ahead of the alternative even in the current climate.

No, this is the myth. This so-called "healthy marriage" involves giving the woman everything she demands and her walking away when she's squeezed enough out of you. The second the man stops and demands his fair share the marriage is over and then the divorce courts to step in and extract what the woman failed to do by herself.

This "happy marriage" you are espousing simply doesn't exist, and that's the point of these posts. It's not an option. It's as mythical as the unicorn.

It's tempting to think that if we compromise... well, sex once a month is ok.... I suppose giving her all my money isn't so bad.... I guess it's ok if I do more work, housework and child rearing than she does........ that if we make all these compromises at least she won't divorce us.

But it's a lie. Be too alpha and she leaves early. Be too beta and she sticks around longer but cheats and then still leaves.

You can't win at poker while your balls are in a vice twisted by the other player.

For examples, look at the most successful people on the planet. By far, the majority are married, or were married,

Exactly. Are married or WERE married. But this is true of unsuccessful people too, because most people do get married.

If you didn't procreate, you've failed at the most basic biological level. You didn't win.

And yet if you did procreate the only winner is a few genes that encourage you to do so. YOU didn't win, you got used by a few genes that will propagate just fine in other people anyway. The only difference if you procreate is a few more people on the planet (no shortage of those) and an infinitesimally different proportion of those genes.

[-] MattyAnon 5 Points 2 months ago

This is what we were sold as kids, and the fact it's not true is, in a large way, what's wrong with modern society

Women aren't going to change, so "the dream isn't true is what's wrong with society" is kinda pointless. The dream simply cannot be made true, because that is not in the nature of women.

What's wrong with modern society is not the truth but the lie. The lie that women appreciate hardworking decent men. The lie that women are loyal. The lie that the system will treat men fairly if they behave reasonably.

[-] Mr-Kabuki 1 Point 2 months ago

That's basically what TRP is all about: men who refuse to play a game that's been rigged against them.

I swear thats what Mgtow is about. Red Pill is about understanding how the game works and using that knowledge to your advantage if you choose to do so. Sure, we may not be able to win in terms of find our Unicorn but we will be able to at least have more sexual success than before swallowing the pill.


[-] warlordchad 1 Point 2 months ago

I suppose MGTOW is too, but I mean the whole idea of getting married and being the monogamous good boy beta society wants us to be (and also despises).

[-] [deleted] 56 Points 2 months ago

This has all been said before, but the way you worded it was fantastic. This should be like an introductory thing on the sidebar

[-] doorterblack 26 Points 2 months ago

I agree. I thought this post was illuminating and it was refreshing to hear it from a less hardcore perspective. It helped to understand it better, I think.

[-] kalashnick 1 Point 2 months ago

I second this.

[-] BlindingTwilight 36 Points 2 months ago

The post needs some editing but you are hitting on some genuine issues. The reason so many guys suffer is due to unrealistic and unreasonable expectations. Men are the true romantics and I think this is both nature and nurture. It is counter intuitive to expect that most women want to be treated roughly during sex. It is surprising that you need to act aloof and cocky to attract her attention. Most guys do not learn until they have their hearts broken.

[-] randomTATRP 6 Points 2 months ago

Most guys do not learn until they have their hearts broken.

Just like I didn't. You have to have your heart broken multiple times in order to get it right. Even after founding out TRP. ESPECIALLY after founding out TRP.

[-] [deleted] 2 Points 2 months ago

And some will never learn.

[-] SUCK_MY_DICTIONARY 30 Points 2 months ago

I wanted to post on here about CBT philosophy but I decided not to because nobody seemed to ever ask.

Really, dating had me feeling all kinds of emotional ways as it does. TRP and 48 Laws of Power really twisted me up all kinds of ways. I felt empowered and at the same time, it made me look at the whole world and think it is all fucked and lost. For a while I was on that mess, and some of the posts here made me start thinking that I'm a piece of shit because I don't roll into a bar after work to post up and approach women.

I got tired of feeling like shit, and decided to give CBT a shot and holy shit, within days I noticed massive differences. I was wrong, and I still am, and everybody is, and it's okay. Nobody has all the answers. And furthermore, we all learn differently at a different pace, and even then sometimes we put way too much validity in our conclusions which might actually be quite uncommon and a probabilistic fluke. The way you learn to apply logic and kind of reset all your sensors, it's like a huge weight lifted off your shoulders.

For example, I never realized for years that I am a perfectionist. Acknowledging that alone brightened me up a lot. CBT taught me to examine what I am doing that is helping no one, and hurting myself.

Now I've noticed some bizarre things as a result of even just trying CBT. Out of nowhere, people who talk to me are happier, people approach me, and so on, and I have this feeling that it is because I'm projecting myself more securely and they also feel more comfortable that I am not holding them to some unrealistic standard that they'll never achieve.

This is all to agree, TRP is great, but you gotta keep an eye on your mental health because your brain is not as pure and logical a place as you think it is. Think of it like Reddit, it quarantines communities it doesn't like, it upvotes the shit it wants to hear, it basically doesn't filter things as properly as it would have you believe. You can have the world under your thumb at this moment, and if you don't keep watch of your own brain, you'll feel miserable and never understand why. And knowing exactly why you feel miserable makes life feel real and good and useful.

TL;DR: Check out CBT if you're into TRP. Even if you're not depressed, it boosts your confidence and security without having to do shit except examine your own thoughts. Low hanging fruit.

[-] TRParchivist 27 Points 2 months ago

For the confused perverts out there, he's talking about Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, not Cock+Ball Torture. It's easy to mix up those two, I know.

[-] max_peenor 14 Points 2 months ago

Thank you, I was confused as fuck.

I generally recommend people use long form before abbreviating. For instance, I'll call her Legal Cohabiting Female in a post/comment before referring to her as LCF. It knocks down the ambiguity.

Meanwhile, the bloops are going to post about how I like to get my nuts squished by a 6'3" tranny in heels...

[-] KeffirLime 7 Points 2 months ago

Cock+Ball torture is equally if not more effective. Nothing says true Alpha more than a baseball bat to the sack.

[-] finizzle 6 Points 2 months ago

is there a specific CBT program you recommend or

[-] SUCK_MY_DICTIONARY 3 Points 2 months ago

Feeling Good by Robert Burns is the book by guy who basically invented it, but it’s been taken on by the medical community so now you can get the gist of it for free.

[-] NYNYGRDTDYEL 3 Points 2 months ago

What do you do specially in CBT?

[-] SUCK_MY_DICTIONARY 5 Points 2 months ago

Here is the general idea: bad (and good) feelings are usually just an automatic thought you have when something happens. Have you ever noticed yourself get angry or sad when something happens, you see the same thing happen to someone else and they don’t care? A good example is rejection in general.

Basically, you start with that feeling and start asking why? Usually on paper so you can really flesh it out and cover everything. You want full coverage of a thought because if you miss a piece you will probably just go right on back to that thought when it happens next time. And there’s a list of like 10 cognitive distortions you can cross reference to find your logically stupid thoughts.

For example, a girl doesn’t respond after a date and you’re like “fuck, I hate this shit. These girls waste my time and they’re all worthless. Who does she think she is? Is this ever gonna end or am I gonna always have bad performance with this?”

Then for example I can ask myself, why do I hate it? Do all girls waste my time or just this one? Are they all worthless? I can try thinking about it from her end, maybe she just felt intimidated and felt it would be easier to not respond than say something that made me mad. I’m jumping to the conclusion that it’s going to be terrible forever, I’m assuming my performance is bad and it wasn’t just this one girl didn’t like it, the last 5 didn’t have a problem. Except that one time when I had two others going and you know, when I had two others and I girl turned me down I didn’t even think about it.... etc.

The general idea is, something happens to you and your brain instinctively searches the brain dictionary for how to feel. “Rejection by girl = anger at society and think all girls are cunts.” So you go into that dictionary and read that definition. You realize it’s illogical. So you edit it to be more realistic. Now next time you may still freak out, but maybe half as much. Because you’ll remember oh yeah, this is stupid. Eventually you’ll be completely unfazed by it.

For me, it works a lot better than the old trial by fire. For some reason when I give myself time to logically analyze a thought and consider the pros and cons of feeling shitty about it, I internalize it rapidly. Maybe within a single event. And it could be something I do 100 times a day, and if I think about it and internalize that it is stupid, I won’t feel that way next time. The caveat is that you have to keep it up and keep working, and it will work better and worse over time. But fundamentally we can understand it never won’t work. Logic is always going to be correct. So if you feel shitty again, start over and try to figure out what is bothering you again.

TL;DR: it’s professional hamstering using actual non-distorted logic, that you use to decode and reprogram your life.

[-] reversec 1 Point 2 months ago

is this NLP or similar to it

[-] SUCK_MY_DICTIONARY 2 Points 2 months ago

it sounds similar but I don't know much about NLP. I wanna say CBT is much older and less hokey, because it's more simple. I think of it this way: yes a chainsaw works better than an axe, but you don't need to show somebody how to use an axe. In terms of these kinds of programs, if you can boil the idea down to 3 words, people follow them. If you can't, people will forget them.

[-] [deleted] 2 months ago
[-] Imperator_Red 22 Points 2 months ago

I will say one thing. I've gone through all the "stages of red pill grief" and I now feel neither positively nor negatively towards women. I understand them and I know how to sleep with them. They are what they are just like the lion that runs down the gazelle and tears its throat out is what it is. What I have not let go of, and never want to let go of, is my anger and disgust for beta male enablers. They are the scum of the Earth and deserve all the hatred and vitriol that is thrown their way. In a just universe they would be strung up by the balls and beaten with bamboo sticks.

[-] ozenmacher 5 Points 2 months ago

Legitimate question...were a huge number of men on here not these men at some point? There definitely are extremists that I *could* consider such treatment towards, such as hardcore male feminists, but the average white knighter, beta male orbiter, or "nice guy", is he deserving of such treatment? Societal brainwashing is even more intense than, say, 10 years ago, before social media. I argue it is not these mens fault. A select small percentage deserve such treatment because they have decided their chosen sexual opportunities are to toss other men under the bus, but most men are not this extreme. Most are just your average AFC as the OP discusses above. I don't think they should be beaten, tarred, and feathered. I am fine with social shaming and ridicule, which we definitely are seeing more of in the USA, at least.


Coming from a former beta male orbiter who did not know any better.

[-] himsenior 4 Points 2 months ago

Yeah. Seems as odd to blame BMO's as it does to blame women. We're all just apes doing ape things. Some learn how to live more meaningful lives. Others don't. But I guess anger is an ape trait too.

[-] bjcm5891 3 Points 2 months ago

I agree. Female feminists are just good for a laugh, even if they try to shame you online. Seriously, if you're on some Fb comments section and one starts frothing at the mouth and throwing all kinds of accusations out about you, just take a quick look at her profile. 9 times out of 10 it's a red alert that screams "Damaged goods". Would you want to trade places with somebody like that?


Me neither.


The beta male on the other hand...


It's not just the fact they enable and excuse women's poor behaviour and help to make this society worse for all of us. It's the way they carry on. They're (nearly) always a bunch of snarky, condescending faggots. They've probably always been that way- the product of a single mother household or a father who was absent OR there- but a complete pushover who always deferred to his mother because he swallowed the "happy wife, happy life" guide to marital bliss. On these grounds I can't fault the beta male- if he grew up in a household where his mother wore the pants, how could he have seen any better? But he's had plenty of chances since then:


At school, these guys hated on the jocks and wished they could get the pretty girls like they did. Instead, the beta male admired these girls from afar, but these girls (at best) thought they were "harmless" or (at worst) "creepy". To deal with his social frustration, the beta would make snarky faggot comments (like the ones he does online) about the jocks, out of earshot. If word ever got back to the jock about it and he confronted the beta, the beta would throw his hands up really quick, going "Hey, I was only joking man!" and backing away nervously like the sackless boot-licker he'd always been.


The beta has had plenty of chances to confront the frustrations of his life like any other guy, but instead he'd rather lash out at men doing better than him in a feeble attempt to win favour from women who couldn't care less if he dropped dead tomorrow. THAT's the frustrating part- he could grow some balls and help to fight the cancerous ideologies that make our society a worse place for men AND women- but instead he attaches himself to the "current year" progressive ideology, white-knighting like a useful idiot and making snarky comments at men who dare to challenge Current Year Correct Groupthink (TM) from behind the safety of his phone, tablet or computer screen.


It'd truly be a great thing for society if these "men" ran their mouth to the wrong person IRL one time, and they got a beat-down for it. It'd be a good thing for them too, because maybe they've only been a snarky little bitch up until now because they've never been called on it? Physically getting their arses handed to them could just be their "road to Damascus" moment- and maybe it'd be the catalyst for them to take a serious look in the mirror, grow some balls and help make the society they live in EASIER for them to get their needs met in?


But until/ unless that happens, there's not much hope for them...


[-] kalashnick 7 Points 2 months ago

Why does society perpetuate these fantasies in the first place if it doean't work? Why haven't more people realized this?

[-] KeffirLime 12 Points 2 months ago

Ad's don't tell you how their product is actually a piece of shit and will probably stop working after 6 months without a refund.

No, instead they tell how you need it, how it's going to improve your life immediately. They sell you the most idealistic version of it to get you invested.

Society is no different, it operates on those same principles of idealism to make you a productive slave. It's a function of our human nature that's been effectively exploited.

Sayings like comfortable lies, harsh truths exist for a reason, we always gravitate toward the most palatable narrative.

[-] kalashnick 1 Point 2 months ago

Ah. You have enlightened me.

[-] bjcm5891 1 Point 2 months ago

Fyre Festival is a great metaphor for our society right now: a train wreck with one helluva slick marketing campaign. Then when the useful idiots touch down on the island, get to the site and see the shitty tents and the chaos, they want to blame it on the people who've been saying "This whole thing is dodgy" rather than Billy and Ja Rule who sold them a steaming pile of shit marketed as gold in the first place...

[-] McVaghunter 7 Points 2 months ago
  • >After enough casual sex with enough women, it starts to feel empty

This is the part that I always hear but will never understand. I guess that's due to the fact that my dream from when I was very young was to build a herd of harem, I never understood nor wanted marriage and I never viewed old women (30yo+) as attractive, never cared about MILF porn. Sure, I wanted a son but growing up with my brother who's 15 years younger than me made me realize that children are not worth it; they're cute when young but once they hit puberty they become different people, and whenever I watch videos of my brother when he was 5 yo I genuinely feel like I lost him even though he's still alive.

Add to this my extremely powerful appetite for eating teenage ass that can almost be described as addiction and I'm just left wondering why would any man willingly choose monogamy... (I know it's the fear of being alone due to low SMV, but still). I've lost my share of dreams but none of them has anything to do with females.

  • >Women happened as a by-product of a life well-lived.

If only askTRP would understand this and work on improving themselves instead of focusing on patching up things with girls or looking for quick hacks to get laid.


Great read, 10/10, would read again.

[-] ozenmacher 2 Points 2 months ago

It very well could be an addiction. Evolution selected for all sorts of men. The scientist/engineer dedicated to his craft of mastery (think of all the amazing scientists and engineers and mathematicians and polymaths who never had children or ever married, but had incredible benefits to society), powerful kings who had harems (men who could climb the socio-economic ladder...possibly even ruthlessly, so he could eat all the teen ass he wanted), sports chads who would spread their physical good genes, high level beta worker drones who were not necessarily good warriors or alpha males, but are skilled at something, well enough, at least, to provide for a family or the society as a whole. If all men had a sexual appetite that bordered on addiction, shit would not get done, and humanity would have selected completely against it. If it were the be all end all, humanity would have selected for it being the predominant behavior, but it didn't. To be honest, we are seeing the negative effects of too much sexuality (perverse sexuality), with top 10 percent alphas slaying all, women slutting it up, and birth rates and western society rapidly declining. There does seem, from history and theory, to be an equilibrium. Why, because society will eventually fail/fall when all of the good aspects of men are not being exploited in positive ways. Right now, with rampant feminism, only one aspect is being exploited positively, and that is the alpha seed being spread at the expense of a huge group of betas.

[-] McVaghunter 1 Point 2 months ago

I wont live forever therefore I couldn't care any less if society goes to shit or not. And frankly I'm happy with how the things are, female hypergamy is a good thing for me; if the top 10 percent alphas are slaying all the pussy then I'll make sure I'm in the top 1-3 percent.

[-] Battagliare 6 Points 2 months ago

Uh this post couldn't have come in a better time. I am swallowing the pill as a 20yo guy. And sometimes even think that i'm late, too late for some experiences... I do not feel anger or hate, just sad. Didn't have a proper family when i was a kid and i thought maybe i can create a family for myself in the future where i'll experience the warmth of family, emotion of love and unity.

But you guys are telling me that i'll never experience that love as i have projected in my mind. I'll never ever be the "cared" party as a "boy". And that makes sense, its too late for such things and maybe i'll have the emptiness of it for my whole life. I grieve for it, and it seems there is nothing i can do.

I get female attention only when i am %100 confident and stoic. But it creates some sense of shallowness. If any girl would have known my emotional weakness, the boyish side of wanting the family, they would see me as a weak guy. And sometimes, i am getting ONEitis because deep down in myself i start to believe that there is a chance with this particular girl to create the family i designed in my head. And each time same thing happens, my ONEitis shows interests in me, i get weak and beta, and she goes to someone else.

I'm aware the mistake i am doing, but i really dont know how to solve it. Maybe i just need to accept the fact that my ideal family will never happen. I dont know.

[-] CainPrice 24 Points 2 months ago

It's not about too late or too early in life. It's that your expectations are flawed.

You're looking for a mommy instead of a girlfriend. You want somebody who loves you unconditionally and cares for you. Someone who praises and thinks the world of you when you're up and who comforts you when you're down. That's how you love women, and that's how women love children. That's not how women love their men.

[-] awakenedspirit1 9 Points 2 months ago

I REALLY wish this information was common knowledge. I sometimes still can't believe it. Fantastic post man

[-] Battagliare 2 Points 2 months ago

Yeah, i have started to read The Rational Male and it says what you are saying. And it really makes sense you know.

At least this community exists so i can search a solution to my problems and ways to fix it. Thank you for your answer.

[-] bjcm5891 1 Point 2 months ago

Great comment. I'm in my 30's and only realised a couple of years ago that after my mother dies, outside of God himself there will be nobody else who ever loves me unconditionally.

[-] finizzle 6 Points 2 months ago

Really good explanation of the stages of grief and how they tie into The Red Pill.

I guess I just have one question: Is it normal to cycle through the stages as well as progress through them? I’ve only been around here for a few months, but what happens to me is one day I will be angry, the next I feel that “depression” and emptiness, the next day I accept it, then I get angry again... and it keeps repeating.

[-] [deleted] 3 Points 2 months ago

I think it’s fairly normal for that to happen. You just need to be making progress in the long run.

It really depends on the amount/severity of issues you’re facing. Parental relationships, emotional abuse you’ve faced, bad/hurtful experiences you’ve had with women, trust, abandonment, any additional mental health problems you may have on top of all that.

Just try to steer yourself towards long term progress.

[-] VanSeslas 1 Point 2 months ago

Absolutely. Think of it this way. Say you’re always misunderstood by your friends about a certain hobby you have. You get it, talking about it with em is pointless, why get mad at them if u obviously know they’ll never get it? More times than often, whenever you end up in a conversation related to that hobby, u don’t get mad for whatever ignorant thing they might say about it. But just a few times here and there, it makes u sad/angry that they just don’t fucking get it, cause deep down there though you don’t care anymore, u have a spark of hope that maybe, maybe one day they’ll get it . So every time the glow of that spark diminishes, you hurt inside a bit. However, since U’ve been through that rollercoaster of emotions pretty often and u understand why you get sad or angry, you don’t remain like that for too long. You let it go faster. Same thing with TRP. You wanna believe at first that all of this isn’t true, so u hold onto your beliefs tightly. But as time goes by and u start accepting the truth, you let go of your them and u don’t feel angry about certain things anymore. But each time u’re faces with a new level that destroys your deep “non TRP” beliefs, u get angry again, not really cause u’re hurting again but cause you’re faced with having to let go once more of another part of the dream. It gets less frequent as time goes by though, but still hurts deeply when it does.

[-] [deleted] 2 months ago
[-] Howdoiusesync 5 Points 2 months ago

Great wording, the point is that what you do with your time on earth really matters, when you follow your mission.

Though I still don't understand the penalization part that some carry for so long. Know your worth.

[-] giyaslayer 3 Points 2 months ago

Today is my birthday. Thanks for gifting me the opportunity to read this amazing all-encompassing post :)

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[-] O--- 2 Points 2 months ago

We though that around age 25-27, we’d find a woman maybe a few years younger who would love us for who we are and appreciate how good we were to her. We would date for a year or two, get married, start a family, have a home filled with love, happiness, sex, and respect, and live happily ever after with our loving wife and our growing children.

Ouch, hitting the hammer right on the nail here. Nice article.

[-] jayb20133 2 Points 2 months ago

We need answers Sway! On the type CBT you worked with. Any links?


[-] Nicolas0631 2 Points 2 months ago

I agree the "normal" life is too perfect to ever happen. There always something you'll fail to achieve. Maybe you'll never make lot of money, maybe you'll have hard time to attract girls, maybe you'll ultimately divorse, or get cheated.

But let's be honest not all the bad things are happening to everybody. For example at least half of mariage last for ever. I'am not saying they are necessarily nice or whatever but they last. Many people don't cheat at all on each other or at least the other never guess it. And many people manage to get a decent amount of money, sufficient to live well.

I ultimately agree that even people that were lucky with a lasting mariage, kids and decent income can have other issues like an annoying wife that is never happy or disapointing kids.

But by all account there like a percentage of people that manage it all. Maybe it is only 10% or 1%, hard to say, but it happen. Sure they will not have sex 3 time a day like the first days of their relation, and they'll age like any human and will have hard time, but they exist.

I agree this is not a given, this doesn't have to be an objective, but while unlikely, it is possible.

And it is also true that while it may be possible or even likely for some guys, it doesn't means it is easy for every men out there. While self improvment is possible and helpful, it doesn't necessarily work on all aspects and one may not be of the type of guy that can achieve that.

I am not sure one should give up on his dream. More that one shall know if their dreams are really their dream and what they truely want and only in that case go for it with a real plan. Too many people did let themselve grow fat, become 100% beta, failed the shit test repeatly, didn't really choose their girl but took the first one that was available and can't understand why it happened to them.


[-] oorobz 2 Points 2 months ago

after reading this post i reach several conclusions.

  1. Grieving about something is natural thing human does and it will be go away someday. If not it can be mental ilness.
  2. U can grief about everything ur dream. ur prespective about life, even about urself. It's like, we want that thing be it right now but we cant make it right now because of some issues we made. Life is about choices, every choice have own consequences, and leads us to another choice, like a rpg game per se, so we need to think about our choices everyday, eventually we make best decisions for that given time. So if u want to live without grief. LIVE FUCKING PRESENT! see things realistic and think rationally
  3. For myself TRP was huge massive giantic improvement pill, well im not good with womans but about self improvement thats the area i want more than woman. I have passionate about that. So u want flower(like womans, or what ever ur goal is) like TRP is seed for flower only thing u need to is watering and nuturing that seed ( which is hardwork, sacrifice, calculated decisions, most importantly being patience, and have a willpower for changes) ----Sorry for any grammar or spelling mistakes not fucking native speaker----
[-] WoodleyWarrior85 2 Points 2 months ago

This is a phenomenal post, and a topic that is on a lot of guy's minds.

When we have an idea for how we expect our life to go, even an idea we don’t necessarily think about and acknowledge very strongly, and it’s just how we always sort of unconsciously imagined things would be, and then that idea doesn’t work out, we feel a sense of loss.

As you allude to later in the post, these dreams are particularly insidious because they seem normal. Like, no one is blaming you for expecting happy wife/happy life, kids, and suburbia. In fact, that set up is considered mature and practical. So, when it doesn't manifest for (most) guys, the blow is that much harder.

We thought that around age 25-27, we’d find a woman maybe a few years younger who would love us for who we are and appreciate how good we were to her. We would date for a year or two, get married, start a family, have a home filled with love, happiness, sex, and respect, and live happily ever after with our loving wife and our growing children.

That's the Blue Pill dream. It's sold as "normal" but in retrospect it actually seems narcissistic. Like, being "nice" does not entitle you to a committed wife, mansion in the suburbs, an excess money to spoil your children with. You don't just get those things as a right of passage, they need to be taken in the real world. This is lost on a lot of guys.

Not to mention: many of us are not necessarily destined for long term marriages/suburbs/kids at 30. That's a path that came about after World War II. It's not some kind of universal truth that applies to every person in all ages. Just google "famous bachelors" and you'll see what I am talking about.

[-] vfb14 2 Points 2 months ago

Reality interpretation is correlated to the level of subjective awareness about objective and self awareness. The sooner you come to terms with those, the faster you accept reality for what it truly is, and move past it.

[-] SexdictatorLucifer 1 Point 2 months ago

But fulfillment came before women came.

I hope this was on purpose.

Jokes aside, great stuff. I like this direction and think we could use more of it. We instinctively try to steer away from it around here because this place becoming a little emotional support circle would be counterproductive to our goals, but in doing so we go a bit too cold. I think the main takeaway from this that would have benefited me greatly at a time, is that you aren't weird for having to go through this. Everyone plays it cool around here, but every last one of us had to deal with some real demons bc of this, and none of us were or are weird for that. In fact, we can be proud of going through it, because if it was easy, well, you wouldn't see so many faggots everywhere

[-] Brixylian 1 Point 2 months ago

New masculine dreams, new ways, shape destinies. Though it expressly entails stepping up to the plate and effectuating change.

What are the implied parameters. AWALT. The marriage will not last in perpetuity. Accept that. Therefore, if inevitable and one still chooses marriage avoid divorce rape. It is possible. Produce kids while married, then ensure 50 percent physical custody. Co-parent equitably while still leading the now divided ship. Concomitantly ignore almost anything the xwife feels or thinks about parenting, tho with a smile. For they do not reason well and often are blind.

Step up to the plate and shape those children up. Educate, guide and love them. It's what we still call a "family." It's still an awesome dream that is achievable. For truly, these selfy obsessed thots do not in mass mature into credible mothers. With the current state of affairs their role in the family is overrated. Achieving anything that approximates the old dream, means minimizing the woman's role in the venture.

However, doing so expressly requires that one's mission is firm and that they are either on the road to financial prosperity, or have already achieved that. Don't give up on your dreams. Make them happen. In new ways.

[-] grandmasbroach 1 Point 2 months ago

Not sure how I feel about this one. I understand the overall point you are making, but I think there's a bit more to this.

First, I'd want to differentiate a dream, and a big ass goal. A dream to me, is just a big goal. Which, I'm a big fan of. I work in sales. Setting a "dream" goal to hit works for me. Even if I only get halfway to my crazy goal, it's usually still a really good month.

I need to make a detailed post about getting into sales. I've done really well for myself and want to spread what has worked for me to people with a work ethic.

[-] AshyLarry27 1 Point 2 months ago

I always grew up not really ingesting any "life plan"-based discussions with my folks, no "birds and bees" talks, my parents simply made sure I did okay in school and had goals for a decent profession. I as very unaware of a lot. A very hands-off childhood where I had to teach myself a lot, which is tough when you have a "daydreamer, not too involved in reality of thinking of the Jones' and their white picket fence" kind of brain. Thank god for my first semester in college when I ran into a "Lou Holtz" quote on "If you wake up bored with life, you don't have enough goals." Really knocked some sense into me. I never was "into my appearance, or style;" I was overweight, and I downed my time in video games, anime, and following sports.

In a sense, I always wondered how the community could view TRP as so "hard to accept" for the average person. Why I could hint it up a bit to friends and it would go over their heads. I think this post really hit the nail on the head. It's hard to cry about "learning Santa isn't real" when no one ever told you about Santa.

[-] NextBad 1 Point 2 months ago

This is the most hateful post I read in a while, It's a pseudo intellectual male feminist type post. Here is why it's important to dream. When I was young I was told I was dumb, stupid, beat, raped, but video games made me happy and I wanted to build them, when I told my dad my first video game creation he told me it was dumb, and I would never make a dime.


Long story short I never became a video game developer, but Have a successful programming company, your dreams aren't for success, over shooting your dreams will land you much higher. I had hope, I tried harder, I spent 16 hours a day programming ,I hated going to bed and woke up at 4am, but this was my passion , I was going to be a big time developer and live in a city and get married and treat my family right


I accomplish most of this except getting a girl friend.


> You’ve found things that bring you fulfilment without requiring women



Nothing replaces women, I need women to be happy , otherwise I would choose a less risky situation than getting married, I could sit at home and play video games


> Women happened as a by-product of a life well-lived. But fulfillment came before women came.


Bullshit, Women came once I learn PUA, I learned that It was ok to hit on them and to make sexual advances , I see people Like Elon musk , who have so much more than me have to pay for sex, is lonely and is having man child break downs, money doesn't make the man, muscles don't make you a man.


I really starting to think The community has shifted towards a more self hatred approach where we are all lazy piece of shit man with unrealistic goals and our only hope is to work hard than magically women will appear.





[-] TommyTheThird 1 Point 2 months ago

I’ve been engrossed in TRP for years. I too have gone through the grief described in this post. The ideal doesn’t work for everyone. Since we are realists in the strictest sense of the term, we must acknowledge that for some it does work just fine. My not fully unplugged self still seeks out how to become that some

What advice or help with this specific mindset problem?

[-] [deleted] 2 months ago
[-] PS2Errol 0 Points 2 months ago

Disagree with the MGTOW bit. You fundamentally misunderstand MGTOW. Plenty have regular relations with the opposite sex and/or have a history of doing so (with divorce). They have learned through experience to go their own way - so they operate on their own terms and take what they want and leave what they want.

They don't hate women or ignore women (necessarily). Most have ample experience of women which is precisely why they have gone MGTOW.

On your hypothesis, I would argue that most MGTOW are already in the reality phase. They have no illusions and take care of their own lives and the relationship they have with women as they see fit. Arguably, MGTOW are the most reality based of all the different groups you mentioned.

[-] CainPrice 5 Points 2 months ago

MGTOW is a bit of a mixed group. Maybe 10% of you guys are men who get it but have chosen to de-prioritize women in favor of other things you like better in life.

The other 90% are internet whiners that women don't want to fuck, pretending it's their choice that women avoid them, who make the small number of you who get it look bad.

When you go read a MGTOW forum, you don't see guys posting business advice to each other. You see guys investing energy typing stuff about women. Which seems like a pretty counter-intuitive hobby for a movement of men that have decided to de-prioritize women.

At least here on The Red Pill, we admit that the point of doing all this shit is to fuck women. I'm not quite sure what the point of talking about women on a MGTOW forum is.

[-] Advanced- 1 Point 2 months ago

I'm not quite sure what the point of talking about women on a MGTOW forum is.


Because you can't avoid the topic. Of course were going to talk about it, half the world's population is women, do we just pretend like they dont exist? I'm a MGTOW that doesnt hate women and still is willing to "date" them. Currently "dating" one because she is a nice person to chill around with and is fully understanding that nothing serious is coming out of this long term. We both get to have our little fantasy until we either decide to stop or find someone more long term. It's fun, were on the same page. Still 100% MGTOW.


I just put myself first, know what I'm getting myself whenever i'm in any relationship with any women, dont allow my own happiness/tought process to rely on anyone that is not me and never let anything stop me from chasing the goals I want.


There's nothing wrong with going to a MGTOW forum and waste some time laughing at stupid shit that goes on daily or have some days to vent. It helps and reminds me of the truth, more then anything else. How much discussion can you have about how you all are doing your own thing anyway? Everyone is doing their own thing, the one thing we all have in common is women.


This whole "MGTOW talk too much about women" is laughable. We are MGTOW because of women, that's how it all starts. Of course were talking about it. "Why do alcoholics talk so much about alcohol" come the fuck on. I expect better from this sub.

[-] CainPrice 1 Point 2 months ago

So the MGTOW forum isn't really about the MGTOW movement, itself. It's more like your weekly AA meeting where you remind yourself why you're MGTOW due to how much women suck?

[-] Advanced- 1 Point 2 months ago

It's not a movement either. Its a lifestyle some people choose to follow after finding the red pill. Kind of like keto is a diet you choose to pursue, out of however many there are.

But yes, for some people it is that. I go there out of boredom/to laugh. I go there for the various posts about how people got there. I go there for discussion of red pill related topics, just without the theme/goal of landing a women.

It's different for every person, MGTOW is its own different thing for every person. There are no rules per say.

Hell I still sub tp seduction and practice game/PUG. I still enjoy flirting when in the mood, meeting women, having sex, improving my skills with them, all the same shit. It's just way in the back of my mind and priorities.

[-] jenovajunkie -1 Point 2 months ago

I lot of things came before a woman did, lol.

[-] SemiLoquacious -7 Point 2 months ago

This reads like an incel manifesto and I couldn't get through it. A majority of people in this world will experience being married to someone that's been married before. A majority of the people in this world alter the dreams from their youth before they hit 30. A majority of the people in this world are confused about where their life will go. It's only a minority of people that dwell on what could had been the way your post is describing it OP. Most people accept reality and make do.

All of y'all on this sub need to take some serious goddamn writing classes. It seems like this sub just turned to shit ever since we got quarantined because all the fresh material from lurkers has gone away and now this sub is left only with nihilist incels that use this place for venting. I'm serious, the quality of this place has fucking declined over the last couple of months. It used to be that this sub would daily offer advice on how to handle specific situations which all of us will end up in while dealing with women, but now it's nothing but a bunch of faggots moaning about their life being hard.

[-] wobbleelbbow 3 Points 2 months ago

if it reads like incel manifesto to you then you need to read it in full and understand red pillers perspective. It is nothing like incel manifesto.

[-] CainPrice 2 Points 2 months ago

In short, men who expected their lives to go a certain way were stupid and naieve to think that and shouldn't be angry or sad about something so dumb. They should just man up and get over it?

[-] himsenior 1 Point 2 months ago

Yeah I don't understand why he thinks that's an incel sentiment lol.