I like a man to have untractable oneitis when he becomes interested in me.

No you don't, at least not long term. That's what kills marriages

I'm just going to speak from my own perspective. The HVMs in my life have strong moral values which they do not compromise, they don't argue with fools, they are polite and respectful to everyone until given a reason not to be, at which point they become fearsome, they respect women as equals to men but meant to do different/complementary things, as yin and yang, they are physically capable, they are intelligent, they are educated, they are humble but always confident, they are calm and steady, they have a strong sense of spirituality, they are financially responsible, they are generous yet reasonable with their resources, they are always eager to share knowledge with those eager to learn, they are protective and loyal, they are caring and solicitous, they have a sense of humor, they are slow to let people get close but once you do they are the most wonderful and steadfast men you can imagine.

It is the point where I have the most friction with this community because I am reading so many posts which are all over the place.

That’s because it’s such a general term that means something different to every person who uses it. You might find other people’s definitions of HVM baffling compared of what you want, and that’s okay. But keep in mind that other women might think exactly the same thing about what you want, and that’s okay too.

So what exactly is a HVM?

Think of HVM as a catch-all term that means “man I personally find highly desirable.” It becomes a bit of a problem when such a term is highly subjective but people try to use it objectively. Or even worse, people start to define HVMs as men who simply do whatever women want them to do (aka simps). In light of that, I tried my best to objectively define what an HVM is in a way that can be used by EVERYONE here.

TLDR: it means a man who has desirable masculine behavioral traits that manifest in ways compatible with your goals, lifestyle, morals, and preferences. That’s a little clunky, so u/Whisper broke it down here:

So, first, an HVM is any man who is good at achieving his goals.

Second, the right HVM for you is one whose goals are compatible with what you want from a relationship.

He also gives insight on why some women here are so attracted to what you define as a rich “red pilled guy dressed in suits, who has a rich choice of women…”:

All of the men you describe are value because they apply effort successfully to achieve their goals. A man whose high value is about being wealthy isn't a high value man simply because he has lots of money. He is high value because at some point he said to himself, "I want to be rich", and then figured out what he needed to do to make that happen, and he did it.

Have you read the stuff in the wiki? I think it hits on a lot of your questions here

I find the concept of HVM problematic.

I see red pill theory as a valuable tool when it comes to solving issues between men and women. It's a helpful way of understanding some basic differences between the genders. I appreciate the honesty and lack of sugarcoating in red pill ideas.

I find that a lot of HVM talk turns quickly to bragging, though. Even this thread - most of the posts are people talking about their wonderful husbands. And there's a place for that, sure. But there's also an implication that HVM are somehow a breed apart from other men, and it becomes tempting to over-focus on the question of whether a specific man is high value.

I find Whisper's definition of high value to be perfect. But in most cases I don't think the value thing is really relevant. Understanding what makes your man tick, and how your behavior can impact the relationship, is more important than assessing value.

I don’t think your definition actually differs from most womens definitions here. I read from a few posters before as well that a HVM will inherently have some blue pill qualities, being completely RP isn’t going to be conducive to a LTR or marriage considering how many of the men over on that forum feel about marriage. I agree with you on all of the points and definitely agree with you that there seems to be a trend recently of women on here who seem to think a HVM is just a very high earner and thus will ignore some red flags (vices, emotional instability, even up to abuse), and I’d argue that a truly HVM doesn’t have any of those issues.

When I think of HVM I think immediately of my husband, he is incredibly emotionally mature, is very dedicated to doing well in his career (he even got a PhD in his field because he values it so highly and knows what he wants), but he also very much values family, both our own parents and extended family time but building our own family. He was the only man I ever dated who never talked about marriage and kids in the abstract but had an actual timeline for what he wanted (dedication). He also never pushed me to become a housewife but did let me know how much he valued having his own mother around during his childhood (values). He used to in his early 20s be driven by just getting women like any other man, but as he got towards his late 20s his priorities kicked in to building the life we wanted, which included a career he was at the top of his class in, a life long marriage, and a big family of 4 children. He doesn’t view me or raising kids as a burden or obligation, it’s been his goal and dream to be able to do so.

We’re pregnant with our first and plan on having more, and through the whole time I’ve never once doubted his devotion to me. He doesn’t have social media so he’s not ogling randos on IG, he quit watching porn all together shortly before we got married (not cause he had an issue just because he said it didn’t feel right to do so when he was making a vow of devotion to me). He’s catholic and takes vows, devotion, and commitment to me and our family very seriously. It’s very hard to find these traits in modern men, especially completely RP ones, so I’d be inclined to say you’re spot on with your definition.

As a couple people said you should check out the wiki. It specifically states most redpill guys would be unlikely to be a good ltr candidate and to look for the mix of "alpha" and "beta". People who lurk or stumble over the subreddit post all the time, the regulars here mostly have stable relationships with good men from the sound of it. No one is advocating to fight for crappy guys.

I agree with you. Everybody’s definition is going to be slightly different. Then you get posts where the dude is a total loser/abuser/miscreant basically and it’s like “how do I submit to this guy who has no job, disrespects me, has no moral values…” and it’s like…. You don’t. Stop it.

IMO a high value man is one who puts respect at the forefront. He does not compromise his values or ethics for anything. He is secure in himself, knows what he wants, and is able to communicate about that effectively. He is straightforward and honest. He doesn’t have to be wealthy, but must be financially responsible (ex: budgets, saves). He has good hygiene and is capable of cooking and cleaning well. He is kind and respectful to all people he interacts with. He is capable of defending his girlfriend or wife and will prioritize his wife over all once married. He is generous, loyal, and open minded. He is well read, intelligent and knowledgeable. He is responsible in his consumption of alcohol, if any. He manages his time well. He is healthy and fit. He understand how to communicate with a woman. He always considers his partners needs and desires and plans accordingly. He is proficient in explaining why he cannot meet a desire of his partner’s should that situation arise. When he does not meet a need or desire, it is for the greater good. He is patient. He has a good understanding of the differences between men and women in nature, communication, cognitive processes, etc. He is great with kids and animals. He is adaptable and good at changing plans in accordance with life’s challenges. He’s resilient. He’s supportive in times of hardship.

If you enjoy reading literature, I suggest you and your partner reading “The Exemplary Husband” by Stuart Scott together. Afterwards, if you’re keen, “The Excellent Wife” by Martha Peace. Peace’ works are “controversial” in the sense that it’s all about traditional femininity (something that isn’t viewed highly these days)… Both books will answer questions you have about why these women stick by “not so great” men..

They are religious literature, but “The Exemplary Husband” sets out a very stable and consistent guideline for what men SHOULD be and what men SHOULD do (which sounds like something your husband IS doing). It’s not about “macho piss contests and getting women”, but it IS about holding men accountable to the masculine traits of providing, guiding, leading, and loving. If you aren’t religious, it still might be of value because many of these traits are highly valued regardless of affiliation.

Wealth brings along so many issues for people. I would rather take a man who works with his hands and comes home in dirty jeans and big smelly work boots than a shitty man in a suit. I’m marrying an accountant so think “short w/ nerdy round glasses, Star Wars collectibles, unbelievably based, and a very sexy moustache”. He is a traditional man, strong, intelligent, wise, and hilarious.. but I had never experienced what feels like genuine worship before, at least, until I met him. It’s irresponsible to allow yourself to be distracted by wealth, a 6ft build, or societal attractiveness.

Love this. I agree. I was just reflecting on how a lot of 'red pilled men' are just low value manipulators with expectations from women, that don't align with the value they (the men) would bring.

And how most actual HVM aren't 'red pilled'. I think the manosphere attracts damaged men who need to use strategy to attract and keep women.

Personally, my bf is a great example- I’ll describe him:

Doctor Multilingual Good driver Open communicator Gentle with me Decisive Capable Trustworthy Kind Incredibly monogamous (virgin when we met, waited 8 months for sex even though I was begging for it honestly) Lightly religious Family oriented Financially stable Dedicated Literally barely talks to other women (we watch porn together but he feels weird about looking at it alone)

One of the first discussions we had was about how many children I want, my ideas about marriage, wether I would be able to deal with him leading us and how much I would want to work vs stay home in the future

A HVM is ultimately different from person to person. What do you want in life and what are you goals? What type of man will help you become the best woman you want to be? It’s really not complicated. What are your main values and what are your hard no’s in a relationship.

For me it was a big deal to have a man that prioritized family, had an education and decent job, doesn’t watch too much porn or have a social media.

Once you find someone that has the things you want and you guys mesh that’s when things move forward. I found that guy and am not going to let him go.

Ultimately if it’s meant to be it will. If a guy meets all of your needs and is just as interested in you then cool.

No ones perfect including us and no man will be perfect. Be realistic, and as long as your realistic it won’t be hard.

I really like listening to the empowered wife. She talks about focusing on yourself in a relationship and marriage and femininity and how to keep a man satisfied in a marriage.