Hi!
So, I will be as brief as I can be without doing myself a disservice.
I have been married for 6 years, 7 in august. It all started well enough, but time passes, kids come along, bad habits form on both sides.
For some background, my husband, I believe, has strong alpha tendencies, however his upbringing forced him into a beta mindset/behavior (dad left when he was 5, he is exactly like his dad, his mom treated his two sisters as more important/special and he naturally defers to a female in a home setting, but he resents it bitterly). I love my alpha. I need my captain. But as I said we fell into some bad habits, ie communication not so good. I also suffer from depression, so I stopped caring about me and focused on everyone else. No one was happy, at all. We were at splitting point.
I found the red pill about two months ago, i implemented two changes immediately (well I read this quote on this subreddit, "belly full and balls empty") and work on my bad habits constantly (just because he keeps asking what I want for dinner - though I cook it, or what I want to do, doesn't mean I have to have my way - and to be honest I'd rather he just says what he wants) So, things have improved. My next challenge is to work on the outward me, as its very easy to not care about hair and make up when I'm just doing housework and playing with our kids. It does make a huge difference to my mood though so I will keep at it and hope it gets more habit and less self reminding.
My long winded question is, how can I gently encourage him to be more alpha, less beta and more proactive about his health (he's a smoker who needs to exercise - not overweight but needs to move - not criticism, just concerned) I am fully aware of what I need to do and have been making slow but steady progress (I actually found cutting out swearing to be the easiest change!)
Thanks for reading and please, any tips, suggestions for reading or whatever (oh! routines!!! please!) are much appreciated.
Starting out, looking for some support/guidance
20
flutterby25
Posted 8y ago in Uncategorized - Permalink - Locked - 248 Views
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KatherineKelly 8y ago
I loathe exercise because it bores me to tears but like being active. Tennis, golf, kayaking, hiking, ect.
If you can find a few common active interests this can give you alone time plus be proactive about health. The getting healthy through fun approach.
Maybe it is superficial but I'm more confident when I know I'm at peak health and physical condition. Clear eyes, glowing skin and silky hair seem to come from healthy living better than out of a bottle.
Men do not change easily for women unless they think it is their idea. Maybe it comes from their mothers constant nagging growing up so by the time they marry they are extremely resistant or possibly because they think women are inferior to them so should not be in the position to make suggestions as to how they are living their lives.
Listening to men I really get the impression that the more they love a woman the more likely they are to see her as dangerous to them. This can make any suggestions or requests to be met with suspicion, stubbornness, hostility, while showing nothing on the outside.
Bitching, nagging, screaming in anger or rage simply seems to make them close down and confirm their already negative attitude toward and about women.
Rational calm reasoning and leading by example seems to work best. Don't push but instead invite him to join you in living life the way you are living it for yourself.
Build it and they will come.
stolidfact 8y ago
For me, it is not that my mother nagged me, or that I think women are inferior. It is that without exception, personally, whenever I have voluntarily given up power (to "change because I love her" or whatnot) or have had it taken from me because I did not know any better, I have come to resent the outcome. In the first case, even when I negotiated or we agreed upon what a woman had to do in exchange, what I wanted never happened, and it was never enough for her. Like the power acted as poison to the woman until it sunk us both, and as if she wanted to see how much she could push before she broke me. Which she did, but of course it was my fault. Her side of commitment was ignored usually within a week (usually "it's too hard", "I'm too busy" "unrealistic something something" or some thing similar), while I uprooted a lot to make my part happen. And in the second scenario, it led me to view the situation as a fight, because I see other men fighting me for power, so I started treating the woman as a man. And I really don't like losing.
Personal experience, others' MMV. The opposite is also very true. Patience and submissiveness activates a protector instinct where I can better recognize that change needs to happen for a more optimal outcome, and then there's very little I won't do. Because then it's an "us" situation.
cats_or_get_out 8y ago
Beware of that impulse to "change him." If you feel that urge, consciously redirect that energy towards working on yourself.
Focus on changing yourself, taking responsibility for yourself, etc.
flutterby25 8y ago
I dont want him to change. When he's captain, things are terrific. When he's happy and confident it changes the whole mood of the house! I love it! I am working on curbing my less than desirable habits and taking better care of myself. I will not nag him into doing anything (never been my thing as I hate being nagged myself :) ) I was just thinking it'd be kinda nice to do some of the "work" together, if that makes sense?
cats_or_get_out 8y ago
Yes, you do. You want to make him alpha. You want him to workout more. You want him to stop smoking. You want him to work with you on this.
See? This is about you. Not him. (You can't change another person. Tell yourself that 100 times...those are your Hail Marys for today)
Let go. Relinquish that control. Stop hoping you'll "lead him to change." You can't make his frame for him.
Even if he stays beta, so what? Look, you're a married woman. Live up to that commitment. Love him wholly and completely.
Stop reacting and justifying. Be calm. Be loving.
Best wishes in your journey. :-)
flutterby25 8y ago
I hadn't thought of it like that. More than anything I just care about him, love him and want him to be healthy for his sake. Thanks for the Hail Marys :) and the advice
Disappear_vanish 8y ago
This is not about you. You're seeing life through lenses he might not have right now. This perfect relationship you want to have is like a magnificent skyscraper in the distance. It wasn't built overnight, and it's not a kindergarten Lego project. It's complicated and requires significant investment, and the building you're looking at is invisible to him, so describing it to him isn't going to do anything productive but will frustrate him.
Make these changes yourself. Turn yourself into a submissive,RP wife and that will water the seeds for alpha behavior that he already has planted.
This isn't about you. Get off the whole, "ideally he would be alpha by this date" or "these are behaviors of an alpha man that I want him to have." You've done these, made these stipulations in your head and you're shoving and goading him, and you know it. None of that is helpful, it's just whitewashing the same old controlling and demanding behavior and pretending it's supportive and motivating.
. He's never going to live up to your expectations because if he does behave more like an alpha, he won't be focusing on your happiness anyway, and that's where it all starts. Because it's not really about you.
If you really want to be happy you need to understand that he can't have that as his goal at all. He isn't your puppet. You can never change him. You can get your foot off of his throat, though. Someone else here said you need to get out of his way and it's true. All of your post is asking what you can get him to do now and the answer is nothing.
Are you as hot and sweet as you can possibly be right now? Work on that. How many dishes can you cook from scratch and how many nights a week do you do it? Work on that. Got a habit of letting the dishes pileup before you do them? Work on that. You want an alpha, but you need to deserve one. Just because you're married to him doesn't mean you don't still have to attract an alpha. If you met your husband tomorrow and he was your dream alpha, would he still want you like you are now?
On the smoking: does he know you'd prefer if he quit? Probably does right? So then do not, under any circumstances, hound him about this again. Don't bring it up. Don't make a face when he lights a cig, don't make passive aggressive concerned bullshit comments about his health because I promise he knows, and if he is running low, go get him a pack to save him the trip to the store. Fill his gas tank while your there and get him a pop he likes. Don't bitch about any of his habits to anyone, ever. These are things you can do starting now.
This is not about you. If he was your dream alpha except for this tobacco habit, would you walk away from your first date, looking just like you do now, saying, "ew, that's a deal breaker?" Now cycle through this thought process with each of these habits or traits he has that you don't like. If he was AB and perfect except for ____, would I still want him?
It will take time for him to see all your changes and to trust them. He's deflated and defeated and probably cynical about your recent changes. Give him a year, two years. How many years have you spent together not at the top of your game? Give him that many of your best.
And of course, you need to know that depending on how unattractive you've gotten physically and how big of a bitch and a nag you've been, he may already be totally checked out. Probably not, but be fair. You'll know in your gut if he just needs to be done.
Edit: Woah, this reads like I'm totally telling you off, girl. I'm not. There's no anger or I'll-will here, just frankness.
flutterby25 8y ago
(I have the flu and did take that personally at first, yet another thing I'm working on, but thank you for clarifying :)) ok, I'll try and keep it quick. He's said he wants to stop smoking. He says it about once a month and has done for several years. I do not know how much more supportive I can be on that one (have done the requested research on alternatives, hypnotherapy etc). I never nag, as I know that tends to have an opposite effect on people, plus its just not fun to nag anyhow. I own my happiness, he owns his. This is a fact I get. Am I not supposed to care if he is happy and healthy though? :) on the cooking I do ALL cooking and have done since day one of cohabitation. He chooses the dinners for the fortnight and lets me play the rest. It works beautifully, that was the third change I made a few months ago. I don't have a deadline. I just know from our relationship history that he is insinctively alpha, and his upbringing messed that up. We have had a rocky few years and during that time, he's reverted to his upbringing and I 'stepped in' to fill the gap. I know now that was wrong, but I thought that was what I was supposed to do (I've been hung up on the wrong supposed to's, I know this know, it does take a little time to adjust thought) I guess I didn't think of it as getting him to do what I want, but how to help him be the bestest he is by nature.
iamz3ro 8y ago
Right there. You almost missed it. With time you'll learn to spot these. Don't say things like this. You're trying to shift the blame for your over-reaction by blaming the flu. Take responsibility straight up. "I over-reacted, I'm learning to stop doing that."
It's a little amusing because your blame shifting was the first 4 words of your comment. The first 4 words. Think about that.
flutterby25 8y ago
ok, al i meant was when i am unwell i do emotion first logic second. but ok.
I've read other threads where someone says they have depression and are working on it, no one says to them don't make excuses. I said the exact same thing and we're all ignoring that bit. I kinda thought I at least had my heart i the right place by learning what I had been taught and shown growing up wasn't right, by trying to do better. Reading most of these comments it kinda feels like I will never be good enough, I already get that feeling on my bad days with depression. But hey, no excuses right? I'll just dust myself off and try again.
TheTerrorSquad 8y ago
Just a quick question. Why do you want him to be more alpha and less beta?
flutterby25 8y ago
Because when he is more assertive, he is happier. When he is more confident, he is happier. When he just says what he wants without worrying, he is happier. When he's happy, the house is happy and warm and loving. Then he steps back again. And up til recently I thought I was supposed to step up and fill the gap, so to speak. So now I need to learn to let go, the gap be there and just keep doing my part (I think?)
antariusz 8y ago
It's all right in the original post.
Married 7 years.
No longer aroused by husband. She tried "negotiating desire" by having sex with him because she read (in trp no less) that it would save her marriage. She tried it for 2 months, but it isn't working, because she isn't as attracted to him as she used to be. She is trying to "fake it till she makes it"...
And now she is wondering when she will start actually enjoying the sex she is now having.
flutterby25 8y ago
Naught to do with sex actually. Since going for it each night my drive now matches his (my drive went awol after two miscarriages btw). So no complaints there.
TheTerrorSquad 8y ago
That doesn't exactly answer my question.
I'm just wondering what she dislikes about his beta behaviour and what she thinks she'll like about him being more alpha.
Beta does not necessarily mean bad and alpha does not necessarily mean good.
It sounds like SHE wants these things. Emphasis on her not him.
flutterby25 8y ago
Ok, I agree there is nothing wrong with beta. Except when its against someone's nature. You know what it feels like to go against your own instinct? Not good. That's why I like the idea and reality of him being more alpha. He is much happier, and that is awesome. He is being truer to himself when he is displaying those traits, than when he burries them.
SoonToBeMrsHim 8y ago
Honestly, when I first started reading RPW I got really hung up on "what do you want for dinner - why wont YOU pick" My husband just doesn't like picking dinner. He has other things on his mind. Why should he spend the time and energy picking out a menu, that's my job. Do you know what foods he likes? Do you know what foods he dislikes? Great - you know enough to handle dinner yourself. If he makes a suggestion then you comply to the best of your abilities.
You don't - You support him if he starts to make the change, but you don't push him. Get yourself into a good routine FIRST. Does he express the want to quit smoking, does he express the want to lose weight? If he doesn't any supportive push will come across as nagging. Now, if he does express the want to quit smoking/lose weight then you just have to ask him to join you in a nightly walk after dinner, shop healthier, cook healthier. Smoking, from what I understand, is one of the hardest addictions to quit. So you have to let him do it at his pace - if he even wants to.
freebumblebee 8y ago
Are you me? I had to make the conscious choice to sit back and realize that he doesn't need the stress of what's for dinner. I'll ask him approximately how many calories he wants for dinner or if he wants a light or heavy meal and make something accordingly. If he wants something in particular, he'll tell me. Otherwise, I just make food.
vintagegirlgame 8y ago
When my SO is hungry it's like his brain is on pause! The last thing he wants to do is think about what to eat, he just wants food in front of him. Sometimes I'll ask if he has a particular craving (and if he does make a request it's almost always for stir fry noodles), or I'll just let him know "I'm thinking of cooking _____ tonight" and see if he has any objections. But making the menu is part of the tasks delegated to me. I'm the one who does the grocery shopping and knows what ingredients are in the fridge and what should be cooked while freshest. He doesn't want to have to keep track of these things. Especially when his brain is off and he's in caveman hungry mode.
SoonToBeMrsHim 8y ago
I don't think I am you, but we can be friends :)
I found, through RPW, that the whole point of being a good first mate is so he can delegate to you. Just gotta find the balance for your individual relationship.
freebumblebee 8y ago
Exactly. Making all the decisions is work, which is part of what I've hated in the past. Why would I want to put all of that on him? I want to support him--not be an added burden.
nspikeu 8y ago
I got "the surrendered wife" by Laura Doyle from my public library. I was a bit worried it would be over the top, but it was really practical. It has alot of real life examples on how to relinquish control and why. It's a simple, pragmatic book.
Anyone can follow the steps. It also showed some ways men react or feel if treated dissrespectfully or if controlled. I was trying hard before, but I never really got it.
I was desparing in the first chapters on how horrible I had been in some areas, but in the later ones I saw ways I had been successful, and proof in his actions. It was both prodding and encouraging, I do reccomend it, because as others have said, you are still trying to change him, and that isn't the goal.
flutterby25 8y ago
oh thank you!!
StingrayVC 8y ago
We don't make our men more alpha. We get out of their way.
Work on yourself. Cook better meals. Go to the gym. Invite him to come along and hopefully he will. If he doesn't, that's his decision.
flutterby25 8y ago
So lead by example and hope he takes the lead? And thank you all, what I have liked while lurking is how non judgy everyone seems to be towards those who are trying, and I truly appreciate it
StingrayVC 8y ago
Well, sort of. Don't think of it as leading. Think of it as improving yourself and maybe he would like to come join you. You do not want to try to lead him to do anything. The only person you can change is yourself. What you can do is inspire him.
The last thing you want to do is look like your trying to change him in anyway. He will notice this. Just do your thing. He might decide for himself to come along or be inspired to do his own thing.
flutterby25 8y ago
Thank you! I dont want to lead, I dont like leading, and I totally get what you're saying.
It seems so simple, but for me, very new to trp, and still undoing 33 years of cultural conditioning, it wasn't, so again thanks.
StingrayVC 8y ago
Understandable. Its refreshing that you listen and accept. That seems to be the most difficult part for most women.
flutterby25 8y ago
I think part of the resistance is due to that conditioning. Its hard realising that so much of what we've been taught, modeled etc has been so inherently wrong. There could also be a small notion of "letting the team down" by being honest about themselves and life in general. I love learning and know I have a ways to go.
Aine_of_knockaine 8y ago
The man doesn't care what I cook 99.9% of the time. When he does he tells me what he wants. Other than that it's left up to me to decide. It doesn't bother me, because he can still lead without micromanaging. He is asking you for input. He isn't doing this so that you make the decision. He's doing it so that he can make an informed decision. He doesn't need to micromanage and make all the choices on every little thing to still be a good and capable leader.
You don't. You do what you need to do. That's it. Don't push him. If you do then you aren't actually making positive changes. You're just nagging him about something else. If you go to the gym or go on a walk ask if he wants to come with you. If he says no then just say okay and go and do it yourself. If you don't then you're just being an annoying nag and telling him all the things that you don't like about him.
Want him to lose weight cook healthier food. Make salads with low fat or fat free dressing. Cook food that is more in line with a healthier lifestyle and work to get one. Ask to do things that require outdoor activity. "I'd like to go and do this would you like to come with me?" Don't force him and nag him to do things differently. Allow him to choose to do them and be okay with it if he doesn't.