I have a friend. She had a really shitty upbringing, with no values taught to her (how could her parents teach her anything without themselves being hypocrites or confessing their own inadequacies). On top of that, without going into details, she was abused by those people 'close' to her, and thus subconsciously sought these traits in the men she found 'attractive'. She is now 31 and has a string of pump and dumps in her past, which include giving guys hand jobs in class, one night stands in alleyways, blowjobs in public, fucking 3 guys in the space of 24 hours, e.t.c.
Her life is a mess, and it never even occurred to her (consciously) until she met me.
I feel bad about just telling her that she can't have her cake and eat it, and so I'm wondering is there any hope for her? What are the steps she must take to ever finding a high quality man who will accept her?
Edit: She has since I brought this to her attention began going to therapy.
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dipitybit 8y ago
I believe everyone is capable of changing. This girl has hope in finding happiness and love if she makes her life better for herself. Granted, she may not have a ton of choices in the men department, I'm positive she can find one that's good and right for her. Perhaps introduce her to Laura Doyle's book "The Surrendered Single", it would probably help her gain confidence and strength, and especially hope in finding a good man who adores and cherishes her, regardless of her past.
ragnarockette 8y ago
I agree.
I think Red Pill theory is valuable for understanding Sexual Market Value, but just because you're no longer the most desireable thing on the market doesn't mean that no one will want to be with you.
mannishwood 8y ago
I'm glad to hear she's going to therapy. However, as a 30+ RPW who has given up on finding a partner because of my past, sometimes that's just life. Nobody is automatically entitled to love and happiness; for some people it just doesn't happen. All you can do is be a good friend to her and avoid giving her false hope.
collidoscope 8y ago
The reason men avoid women who are in their 30s isn't because they're repulsed by the idea of being with a woman over 30, it's because a lot of women in their 30s didn't learn anything in their 20s!
A lot of these women didn't learn how to develop solid long-term relationships with stable partners, had self esteem issues, didn't know how to pick emotionally healthy partners, etc. Either that or they're still trying to act like a college girl.
A lot of women don't take the time to self reflect. There's a difference between embracing RPW ways in order to find happiness and using RPW knowledge to punish yourself and tell yourself you aren't good enough. It sounds like you're doing the latter.
Get in shape, take care of yourself, and get a therapist to support you as you try to make changes in your life. When you take responsibility for your situation, it will be empowering. The key is to avoid casting blame and beating yourself up over your past while you do it.
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NittanyLioness84 8y ago
Don't give up :(
mannishwood 8y ago
Only on finding a partner! I have lots of wonderful hobbies, friends, volunteer, keep fit, love to cook, have a job that I enjoy, have a pet, travel alone, dote on friends' children, etc.
I am very sad that I won't have children, but also grateful that I didn't have them with my ex-husband. I would find it so, so hard to raise children as a single parent.
NittanyLioness84 8y ago
I know you already know this, but you only have one shot at life so try to be as happy as possible. If you have internalized RP, you should know about girl game. You know a cheat code to life and can find a guy-even one that is younger lol. I know the game favors youth, but there are guys fed up with younger women and only want older ones. A 30s RPW has got to have an advantage over a 20s BPW in some aspects.
mannishwood 8y ago
You're really sweet :) Some women have to end up alone -- that's how a sexual marketplace functions. I'm okay with it :)
NittanyLioness84 8y ago
Do you want to be alone?
mannishwood 8y ago
No, absolutely not. I want to get married and build a home and a future with someone. But I'm 33 years old and the reality is that, biologically, I'm not in a place where I will be able to meet someone and have children before 35. I wouldn't want a man I loved to risk having children with me in my late thirties.
I was married for ten years. I had my chance at this and I blew it. Now I'm focused on trying to be an excellent woman :) I'm okay with hard truths about life for women after their twenties. This sub is about reality, not feelings.
BeautyQuark 8y ago
If you have a low partner count divorced men are a great option for you. You have pre-selection by being married for ten years. You are red-pill aware. In my opinion, if your looks are good seek out men that are upper 30's to low 40's that are divorced but not damaged.
ragnarockette 8y ago
Dude, 33 is not that old. Waaaaayyy too young to give up!
My aunt met her husband when she was 53!
NittanyLioness84 8y ago
I don't think 33 is that old. I am 31 and I met my SO when I was 30. He is 29. If you take care of yourself and exercise, you can pass for a younger age. Plus, you know how to be feminine to attract the masculine. I won't try to change your mind anymore, but it just seems to me you are being too hard on yourself. You're kicking yourself for your marriage you say you blew, I hope you don't kick yourself when you're 43 realizing you could've had another go at a relationship. Good luck :)
vintagegirlgame 8y ago
Why have you given up completely? I don't think it's ever too late if the person decides and follows through with making a serious change in priorities and lifestyle.
mannishwood 8y ago
Why would any man want to be with me when he could have a 22 year old? I've internalised RP truths about men and women and sexuality and made my peace with what the rest of my life is going to be. I'm very sad that I'll never have children, but I'd rather face my future honestly and without delusions that cling on to some pathetic hope that makes me feel better.
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tintedlipbalm 8y ago
RP doesn't say you will be alone forever, but that you would have to compromise as a consequence. It means your man might not be as high value, might have children with an ex wife, and other kinds of baggage.
It's about having realistic expectations of what comes with that age and the consequences of your personal past. It's never "nope, you're done, no man for you ever again after 30". It means being receptive to men who you might not be receptive to when you're young and have a big list of standards.
mannishwood 8y ago
Older men have gained in SMV, though, and even having children and an ex-wife is a plus for men in some ways (ie. pre-selection). Aren't those things only baggage for women?
Thanks for the kind reply, though. I do appreciate that you're trying to put a positive spin on my situation :)
tintedlipbalm 8y ago
I think you're envisioning the apex high value man for whom that happens, not your average male who balds and gets a double chin, a beer belly and a bitch ex wife, or one that never was too handsome in the first place.
IMO this mindset you have might not be that you're hopeless without options, but that you might be too proud and would rather end up alone than lower your standards.
Or maybe you're being hard on yourself. But realize that the theory is supposed to help you understand reality and adjust expectations, it's not some strict rule either. If you're fit and gracious, you already have some advantage to many women even younger than yourself. I don't know, your situation doesn't seem like a lost cause and would need a thread of its own because it's way different than the OP here.
NittanyLioness84 8y ago
Agreed!
mannishwood 8y ago
Bald men are very attractive! I'd definitely be ridiculous if I was discounting bald and/or slightly overweight men at my age.
Maybe I'm being irrational, but I've felt as though I would be almost tricking men into a relationship with me, when they would really be better off with a younger woman with more years of her looks and reproductive capacity ahead of her. I would feel horrible doing that to someone that I loved -- like they were wasting themselves on me, almost?
But yes, thanks for the replies. I've struggled a lot with this stuff and there's obviously not a lot of space on RPW for it (because it's relationships-focused).
vintagegirlgame 8y ago
How old are you anyway? There's a great guide on therulesrevisited.com with specific advice for women in their 20s, 30s or 40s+. If having a relationship and family are important to you then don't give up so easily.
And yeah some millennial babe might have a better body but they are so shallow and self centered, most older men are really turned off by their attitude.
We used to tease my aunt for being an old maid, but at 39 she married a 40 year old rock star and had 3 children by 45. Her husband had his fill of young groupies and wanted to settle down with someone his own age. This may be the exception rather than the rule, but with RPW tools you stand a much better chance than some young ditsy bimbo.
It sounds like you're in a depression phase of TRP. Don't focus on men right now, focus on improving yourself. If you're older that just means you have to work harder and faster to reach your goals.
tintedlipbalm 8y ago
Well, if you're truthful about your age, you're not tricking anyone. They would know what they're getting into.
There are more ways to bring value other than reproductive capacity (and there are men that don't want children, or already have them). I would insist that you continue to improve on things that are actually under your control (fitness, health, appearance to an extent, demeanor, attitude, homemaking ability) than to keep dwelling on a biological factor you can't change.
roteroktober 8y ago
an RP guy would not date you, however you can easily snatch youself a guy if you wanted you just would have to learn girl game.
jasonclews 8y ago
Whats the best book I can read about redpill as a noobie?
Its starting to sound like it needs some common sense but I would also like to learn so I'm not ignorant of the phrases and concepts.
vintagegirlgame 8y ago
While more for men, I really like the book The Rational Male. It goes over a lot of the RP concepts and terminology. I also have a RP inspired reading list on Pinterest.com/vintagegirlgame (Board: The Red Library), a collection of books mostly from recommendations on TRP and RPW
jasonclews 8y ago
Thanks for being accepting and suggesting material.
[deleted] 8y ago
Well she is a slut who already hit the wall. Even after therapy (as bad as this sounds) she'll probably need to find a beta who's wife left him mid-life.
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[deleted] 8y ago
Well consider this: There are millions of mentally stable women who are ready for children and have less than half the sexual experience of this woman. Plenty of these women are age 24-28. Let's assume this woman wants what this sub calls a "man with high sexual market value." A man like has a lot of sexual options, makes enough money to support a family, has a good figure, and is kind whilst being dominant and a good leader. Why would a man like this choose to pursue this specific woman, a woman in therapy who's been ran-through by countless men, over a young, hot, relatively sexually inexperienced woman who doesn't need a lot of therapy to repair her damage?
I know a thing or two about this, I'm a 22 year old woman (who's had a bad sexual history and has been diagnosed with PTSD) engaged to a 26 year old man. I was able to win him over with my femininity, caring, good graces, sweetness, loyalty, and devotion. I was also peaking in looks when we met. Despite all of this my bad sexual history was a huge obstacle to developing intimacy, and not because he's "just an asshole who cares about virginity" but because having sex with men you don't know very well truly warps your view of sex and relationships.
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[deleted] 8y ago
That's literally what I said in the first post.
tintedlipbalm 8y ago
Don't sweat it, from its comment history it seems like it's just a troll.
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KatherineKelly 8y ago
When we have been wounded by significant others we than turn to others we try to "make significant" to repair the past wounds with. It is difficult to heal a wound using the same tool that first caused it. It would be like shooting yourself to repair the first bullet wound. It is called "repeating the trauma to make it less traumatic" but all it does is add drama and trauma to ones life.
A man will not repair self esteem issues and if anything he makes her more vulnerable to these issues. It becomes an act of trying to force someone to love her because deep down she feels unlovable from the lack of love in ones past (abuse) so she uses her body as an enticement and or sex as a distraction to fill the emptiness of her heart and life.
I think this is why many people have children to get the love they did not get as children but in this loveless fog they do not see that a child is incapable of filling this void because of their own needs they must fill.
She is using sex get attention and calling it love as a emotional healing salve to fill the void of emptiness that her sense of having no value (loveless) creates. She is caught in a perpetual loop of using people to fix the damage other people have created.
The only way to stop this cycle is to stand on her own emotional feet that she creates by becoming "for herself" the healthy parent she never had. She must invest in herself as the respect she cultivates in herself by the care she shows for herself as to her body, mind and soul
Until she sees that she has value and this value must be protected and nurtured she will never escape the prison of self loathing that her family has placed her in.
Love for another is something that happens after one recognizes that all of life has value and each person is part of this.
You cannot know the experience of love if you believe yourself to be inferior or superior to another because one comes out fear and the other out of ignorance and neither allows for the understanding and experiencing of what love truly is.
She does what she does because she does not understand the meaning or experience of genuine love for herself.
j-coordinate 8y ago
Why would a woman fuck three men within 24hrs? She must enjoy it.i thought women were serial monogamous and more discriminate than men
NittanyLioness84 8y ago
Same reason someone would eat three whole cakes within 24 hours?
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Pink_acetaminophen 8y ago
Exactly. No relationship will ever make anybody happy unless the person is happy inside out already.
cxj 8y ago
Unless shes really smokin I highly doubt she will be able to honestly get a high value man to commit to her. Doing so would involve very effective dishonesty about her past. Over on ppd I'm considered fairly lenient about sexual history even by some bp standards, but there is no fucking way I would ever commit to a girl with the history you described. I would sooner die alone.
Imo her best bet would be some sort of reformed criminal who is now gainfully employed in trades or runs his own business or whatever, but even then, if such a guy can get a girl without a power slut history, he will choose her over your friend.
This may sound harsh, but keep in mind even 24 year old RPW struggle to get a high value mans commitment, thats why this sub exists, so a post wall powerslut has pretty shitty odds of success.
The cold hard truth is that many people really, truly are beyond repair and not everyone can be saved or reformed. It sucks watching people close to you piss their lives down the drain, but in the end they make their own choices, and some times there is nothing wr can do for them after a certain point.
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tintedlipbalm 8y ago
You're clearly very new to the red pill so I will advise you not to comment on RedPillWomen until you have an idea of what you're even talking about.
PhantomDream09 8y ago
You need to read the sidebar and refrain from giving advice until you have a better understanding of RP concepts.
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cxj 8y ago
Exactly. Thats why I said what I did, even if a high value man is a reformed criminal with a massive p count or whatever, they will still take the best option for them, which is among other things not a power slut.
TheLadyPainter 8y ago
OP, I agree with /u/katherinekelly. She needs to focus on her own emotional well-being/health, not on finding a man. She's 31 and "the clock is ticking," but honestly, given her past of abuse, that should be the least of her concerns. If this change in her perspective is true, and she's not going to just give up and fall back in to her habits, she needs to go in to what they call monk mode over at TRP. Work out, find a hobby, go to therapy, get better.
NittanyLioness84 8y ago
I think she needs to take accountability for her mental health and get professional help. No high quality man in his 30s is going to want someone with issues.
Im_Justin_Cider 8y ago
good point! edited
NittanyLioness84 8y ago
Yeah, she needs to fix whatever is going on in her life before even bothering with dating.
sugarcrush 8y ago
Personally, I don't think it's ever too late for anyone unless they are on their deathbed. But I prefer to think positive :)
If SHE (not you, or her therapist, but herself) truly wants to make changes then she can do it. I would encourage her to be honest and forthcoming about her past. Doesn't need to go into dirty details or anything, but lying/hiding is the fastest way to lose trust and respect. She also needs to manage her expectations. Some guys are not going to be okay with her past and that is their prerogative. I would bet if she is attractive, steps up her girl game, and gets her act together then she could find a quality guy. The same quality that a hot 25 year old with a clean past could get? No, but still quality.
Good luck to your friend, sounds like she has a good friend in you!