Am I welcome here as a trans woman? | RedPillWomen

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V_For_Veronica

Posted 7y ago in LIFESTYLE - Permalink - Locked - 381 Views

So a friend of mine showed me this place and after doing a little bit of reading through some of the posts I kind of love the mentality of a lot of the people here. However apologies but TRP has a bit of a history for me of being homophobic and transphobic. I just want to learn from here how to hone my femininity and possibly get a guy like a lot of you seem to have. I just don't want to get too deep in and then learn that guys that follow the red pill are not usually interested in someone like me.

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FeelTheBernieSanderz 7y ago

You have a male brain.

tempintheeastbay 7y ago

Just want to share a charming video about a "femininity coach": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACVM1BUY8tY who works with trans individuals

I think it shows how lovely a celebration of traditional femininity can be, regardless of how you arrived at that desire to be super feminine.

I, for one, would welcome your presence.

V_For_Veronica 7y ago

Omg. This right here is what I need. I need more things like this.

WhatIsThisAccountFor 7y ago

RPW is about biological inclinations that lean women toward certain roles and behaviors in a relationship or in general.

You are not unwelcome here, but I doubt much of this will apply to you since you are not biologically female.

I just don't want to get too deep in and then learn that guys that follow the red pill are not usually interested in someone like me.

Firstly, I don't want to get banned or anything so mods please message me if this is out of line, but most straight men in general do not want a MTF trans woman. They want biological females. RP is a more conservative bubble and being trans is definitely not a conservative thing. So you will be more likely to run into people who are less ok with you being trans in RP community than outside of it imo.

The truth is that no one is allowed to really be truthful with you in a lot of places anymore. You are free to do whatever you want, but people are not free to verbalize how that freedom with affect their view on you. They just have to silently believe what they do because anything else could be considered hate speech. Most men that express the traditional values that RPW go after will absolutely never ever even consider a trans woman as a potential partner.

V_For_Veronica 7y ago

So in your personal opinion do you not see a world in which I could have a traditionally masculine man because of the trans issue?

Guywithgirlwithabike 7y ago

In my opinion, no. Such a world would be very different from the one we inhabit, and the nothing about the men in it would be "traditional" in any sense of the word.

Progressives want to completely destroy every aspect of the society of the world we inhabit to create an imaginary utopia, yet retain those aspects of the older, traditional society that they value or desire. You can't keep those positive aspects while destroying the environment that created them. It's completely illogical.

WhatIsThisAccountFor 7y ago

Nothing is impossible, but it will be an indescribably dificult uphill battle.

Ok_Philosopher 7y ago

I don't really agree with his assessment about alphas not going for trans women, if only because there are many men who express traditional values... but are also gay themselves. Personal preferences can be a peculiar, contradictory mash of things.

WhatIsThisAccountFor 7y ago

Personal preferences can be a peculiar, contradictory mash of things.

That's the point though, a RP themed alpha would have to be contradictory to go after a trans woman. Finding fundamentally contradictory people is definitely more likely that it used to be, but it is still far from the norm.

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CrazyHorseInvincible 7y ago

Time for you to take a little rule-reading break.

girlwithabike 7y ago

Natural masculinity doesn't negate attraction to a trans woman,

It may not negate it but it doesn't change the fact that many men find it distasteful or disgusting. And I don't mean 'disgusting' as a way of being unkind. Disgust is a psychological reaction. Conservatives may have more sensitive disgust responses and higher testosterone correlates with conservative views. Generally when we say "masculine men" we are going to mean men with more testosterone.

You aren't wrong that this is a sub that teaches femininity and I agree that there may be wisdom here for the OP to hone femininity. It doesn't surprise me that transgender folks find their way here from time to time. I'm not aware of many other spaces that promote femininity these days.

But don't give unrealistic expectations to people, telling them that masculinity doesn't negate attraction to a trans woman. This isn't solely about the SMP and if a trans woman goes into a sexual encounter or relationship, it is at a risk to their life at rates far higher than for the average woman.

Additionally, we really only scratch the surface of understanding what hormones do. Replacement hormones in birth control aren't actual estrogen, just mimics and every woman has a different response, which is part of the reason that different pills have been developed over the years. The impacts of birth control after often discussed around the RP communities in relation to a woman's attraction and attractiveness to men. If we can't get it 100% correct in biological women, there is no reason to believe that it is an easy map onto trans women.

While there have been trans people in other times and places, actually changing sex is a new thing. It is often kicked around in conservative circles that one of the doctors who originated the surgery, no longer believes in it. And that increasing numbers of people getting reassignment surgery regret it.

In the meantime, we know that gender dysmorphia has a higher comorbidity with other mental health issues, which may be a turn off to many men considering long term relationships.

The way that we consider gender is an institutional problem and "gender as a construct" is polluting the well. We can't know what is good science and bad if that is the underlying assumption in the research and publications. At this current point in time and science, a trans woman can only ever be a trans woman. Men are not stupid and men may make exceptions for who they sleep with but are going to consider all the issues when considering an LTR, if, that is, they aren't driven off by disgust responses from the start.

Masculine men having more options is only part of the story. Make sure you are telling the whole story.

Szymmy 7y ago

Well actually hormonal birth control is generally different than the hormones trans women get. You are correct that birth control only mimics estrogen but hormones for trans women in the western world are usually bioidentical and have been for a while. The most common type is estradiol hemihydrate which is estradiol (literally the same hormone as found naturally in the body) in a crystal with water molecules and is taken directly into the blood stream, so it's generally safe to say this form of hormone intake poses few effects that wouldn't be found in genetic women.

However you are completely correct in saying that we know very little about the effects hormones have, especially on something as complex as the human brain, which is precisely why I'm wary of both "trans women are just men in dresses" and "trans women are 100% identical to genetic women" type sentiments.

I agree that dating a trans woman isn't simply about being attracted to her or suppressing disgust. Mental illness comorbidity is definitely a factor, as is the social stigma they will receive from this relationship, as is her infertility. There's plenty to ward men off trans women. What I was simply trying to get at is that although men rarely talk about it, male attraction to trans women isn't all that uncommon, and as pointed out in the video I linked it might be related to an evolutionary reason that men are aroused by the sight of other penises.

If there is a relationship between higher testosterone and disgust sensitivity, that only becomes a problem if there is something inherently disgusting with trans women. Which there may very well be to some people, I just pointed out some research that suggests most men are not disgusted by erect penises (in fact are aroused by them) and that trans attraction isn't all that uncommon.

I don't think either of us really has enough data about the relationship between masculinity/testosterone level and this apparent sperm competition instinct that drives some men to trans women, to make a definite statement about what proportion of masculine men are willing to sleep with trans women. I agree though that most masculine men (and most men in general) probably aren't going to do so.

Think we can both agree it's certainly harder for trans women to get a worthwhile LTR, but all she can do (and all genetic women can do) is try to improve themselves as best they can.

Guywithgirlwithabike 7y ago

The porn argument you're making has some serious logical flaws. Those statistics are not taken from a test group that is randomized and representative of the population as a whole, they are taken from the number of times porn videos are accessed over the internet, and a lot of that data is anonymized by passing through VPNs before it's even collected. If 95% of men are only interested in run-of-the-mill porn and only watch it occasionally, but a small portion of the population is addicted to porn, accesses it frequently, and seeks out increasingly extreme examples, that's going to skew your data to the point of being useless. Your argument is analogous to saying heroin is the most popular drug, because it is purchased by users every 8 hours, whereas marijuana is purchased by users every two weeks.

This all ignores how irresponsible you are being in your suggestion in an attempt to virtue signal. If the OP is murdered in a back alley as a result of following the emotionally validating advice of people like you, are you going to take any responsibility for your part in it?

This is something that the OP should tread carefully with, and suggesting they throw caution to the wind borders on outright malicious.

Szymmy 7y ago

Okay your criticism of the data is valid but really doesn't point one way or the other. We don't know whether these fans of extreme porn watch is so frequently as to skew results. At worst this tells us some men are attracted to trans women but not very many, which frankly was always my conclusion.

I really think you're reaching and trying intentionally to get riled up. I haven't given her any suggestion other than use RPW to improve herself. What irresponsible advice have I given exactly? I am well aware that trans women have a higher rate of being assaulted and harmed but that isn't something I can solve. Are you suggesting she gives up on dating people at all?

I haven't told OP to go have sex with strangers or to sleep with the first man available or to lie to any men about being trans. All I said was: a) the world isn't so terrible, there are men who will be attracted to you, some will be masculine b) try use RPW to improve yourself

How exactly is any of this bordering on malice?

Guywithgirlwithabike 7y ago

Your advice is optimistic when optimism is in no way warranted. Both pre-op and post-op transsexuals represent a miniscule fraction of the population. Hopeful advice is not going to benefit them. It's not pleasant, but it is true. Trying to sugar-coat reality for them is irresponsible. That can normally be attributed to naivete on the part of the person giving advice, but if they insist they're not naive, that only leaves malicious intent as a motivation.

You wouldn't tell someone with a bunch of rare allergies to try everything at a buffet table unless you were an idiot or you took pleasure in stabbing people with EpiPens.

Szymmy 7y ago

The advice was somewhat optimistic because the question warranted it. OP clearly had a more negative attitude to relationships, i simply tried to give her a more realistic understanding of the situation by showing her evidence to the contrary. Ofcourse being transgender is dangerous, I didnt think she needed me to tell her that, nor did i think she needed me to tell her not to go down dark alleys or meet with strangers or date men who don't know shes trans. If she came with an over optimistic question I would have knocked her down a peg. She came with a pessimistic question and i tried to show her the reality was less dark and more grey.

Bad analogy since I never told her to go and try every man on the buffet table lol, i simply said there will be someone on that buffet table who will be open to the idea of dating her, its on her to vet the men she meets and make sure they arent the type to assault trans women.

Again, all i ever did is give out some factual information, and then encouraged her to do the literal only thing any of us on this sub can do: improve yourself.

This is the second time you seem to have come at me guns blazing, I'm not out here looking to fight.

LateralThinker13 7y ago

You're welcome here, but the things you will learn here may or may not apply. You're in the (un?)fortunate position of not having gender roles and biological imperatives as a baseline for how to act/interact with a prospective mate. So much of the RPW information will be more of a "that's true about humanity, but not necessarily about me" variety.

If you're looking to be more feminine, this is the place. But the goal of femininity here is, first and foremost, to please/connect with a prospective male partner. If you're looking for a female partner, that gets more complicated because what a lesbian is looking for may be very different from what a man looks for.

That's because straight men are biologically hard-wired to like certain things. Like submissive, slender, attractive women. But when you're dealing with gay, trans-friendly women (a small subset indeed!), that all goes out the window, and you have to go on a case-by-case basis.

Now, that being said if you just want to be more feminine for femininity's sake, then by all means, pull up a chair, read the sideboard, and ask away. There are plenty of ways to enhance your femininity. We're always down to discuss it here. It's just that YMMV when it comes to the advice here, given your starting parameters.

V_For_Veronica 7y ago

I'm mostly leaning towards being here to learn to be more feminine because my friend who showed me this place is not that helpful for that. She's trying to learn herself. If I get lucky to meet an alpha I'll count my lucky stars but I know I have a harder time than let's say you.

AreOut 7y ago

Maybe the best bet would be to find trans man who wanted to become more masculine and tends to show alpha behaviour. Also trans people understand each other much better which is very important for a healthy relationship.

LateralThinker13 7y ago

Be careful. Alpha by itself isn't something to be seeking (read about "Alpha Widows"). If you want a glimpse of something you may want to strive for, try reading Fascinating Womanhood (google to find the PDF). Lots of good tips for being more feminine and pleasing/attracting a partner.

V_For_Veronica 7y ago

Thank you. I've got a lot of reading to do soon.

loneliness-inc 7y ago

TRP is about facing difficult truths. Truth is that you're a man, biologically, physiologically and in almost every way, despite the fact that you feel like a woman.

Is this truth uncomfortable? Sure. Is it politically incorrect to point this out? Certainly. But that doesn't make it any less true.

While there are some men who will enter into a relationship with you, the overwhelming majority of men won't. You have to be ready to accept that, because it's the truth. If you want a good example of someone in your situation who has made it work - look at Blairs White.

I think this post is concern trolling, but I'll leave that for the mods to decide. Now the reddit police can come arrest me for wrongthink.

V_For_Veronica 7y ago

I'm not trolling. I genuinely do wish to be able to be more feminine and I know most men nor women will date me. I've had a long history of that already. I accept that despite the unfortunate fact of that.

MissNissa 7y ago

I'm going to leave it because OP is participating in the thread and being polite.

V_For_Veronica 7y ago

Thank you. I know I have some hang ups from my past but I am trying to get past them.

melissabrain 7y ago

im also a trans woman who has been wondering the same thing. ive been living as a woman for nearly ten years, and internally seeing myself as one for much longer. over the past two years or so ive found myself realizing that i agree with the ideas behind traditional gender roles and masculine superiority (i understand why this would seem hard to reconcile from an outside perspective). thank you for asking something i havent been able to bring myself to yet

Kiddingyoself 7y ago

Does "not applicable" equate to "phobic"? I'd guess most would consider there being an incompatibility.

Much of this comes down to children, which is the realm of heterosexuals willing & able of reproducing. This is a public forum, so of course anyone is welcome. I'm not sure how relevant it will be for you, or how interested you'll stay over time. If you do stay for a while, I'd be curious to hear what's kept your attention.

V_For_Veronica 7y ago

It's more that I've been harassed for just being trans. And Im interested in staying because after 22 yrs of being butch I said screw it and I want to learn how to be traditionally feminine.

Pixie0310 7y ago

There is no super-strong link between TRP and RPW. They are two groups of people who have taken one theory, and built two really different groups with it, with totally different goals.

TRP is for men to deal with gender / relationship / sex issues. RPW is for women. TRP often (not always) has the goal of getting laid more. RPW often (not always) has the goal of finding a good LTR.

There will always be people who are phobic. In these communities people probably lean more towards traditional thinking. But tbh I think all nice, open people who want to learn are welcomed. Definitely including you. :)

RPW is a great place to learn how to be more feminine & about gender and relationship dynamics from a different perspective. But it's not necessarily anything to do with landing a guy who follows TRP. RPW are not groupies for TRP guys, but they are a group of wise & sexy ladies who are smart about relationships and attraction in general. :)

V_For_Veronica 7y ago

Sincerely thank you. It's really nice to hear that it's a group of people that have this mentality but aren't just hateful. The experience I have with the red pill in general mostly comes from subredditdrama. I hope I can learn from you all because quite frankly I find this whole mentality very good and attractive for me.

Edit: I'm on mobile at the moment so I can't see the sidebar but is there some post you would recommend reading just to get started?

Blackhawk2479 7y ago

For the record, I wouldn’t consider TRP hateful either, and the media backlash around it has been largely unfounded and woefully under-researched.

That’s not to say you don’t get haters in there, as you do anywhere, and also curt doses of very tough love, but it is as it needs to be.

RPW is very different, with different, albeit related, goals.

Welcome!

Pixie0310 7y ago

I would read this, and every link at the bottom! :)

https://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/7gn6sg/rpw_and_trp/

V_For_Veronica 7y ago

Since this seems dream mostly for trying to get a man, I should try something else for trying to get a woman? Correct?

Edit: I apologize if my language gets a little weird. I'm using Speech-to-Text because I'm trying to charge my phone at the moment and I may miss something whenever I read it back over.

Pixie0310 7y ago

In general, RPW focuses on becoming more feminine, as straight men are generally / traditionally drawn to feminine women.

If you are interested in women, some of this won't apply to you, since women might be generally / traditionally drawn to different characteristics. But RPW is still a great place to examine attraction / gender. And if you're interested in women who are attracted to femininity, submissiveness, openness, sweetness, etc - I don't see why RPW couldn't be useful to you as well. Most pronouns will be masculine, but the information might still apply.

V_For_Veronica 7y ago

Thank you. I've been single for so long and every time I have had a relationship I've just lucked into it so quite frankly I'm coming into this blind. If I can learn anything at all though it won't be a waste of time.

Pixie0310 7y ago

You're welcome. I've almost never been single but every previous relationship was a wreck, lol. I think that's a lot worse!

I'm not exactly straight either. I like my men super masculine, and my women very feminine. I never understood why I didn't like more masculine women until RPW - it makes more sense that the masculine in me is sexually attracted to the feminine in them. Knowledge is power. :)

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