I am so thankful that this subreddit exists. I have been perusing theory and self-improvement posts. I am looking for direction on a couple of questions regarding relationship and self-improvement.
I am 23f in a 4-year relationship with a man I now live with.
Questions:
-
What are some good books/resources about the positive feminine?
-
If I am argumentative and intellectual by nature, what are some good ways to make sure my boyfriend never feels inferior? (He has never voiced this feeling explicitly, just remarked that I am smarter than him, which I have always refuted).
- I think this man wants to marry and have kids with me. He has said so on multiple occasions without prompting. I am a little scared, because I want to be able to contribute financially in a partnership and thus, have prioritized going back to school before marriage. Is my reasoning detrimental to me or us?
Huffnagle 5y ago
A couple of thoughts...
It’s wise to be careful about debating him. Guys can feel emasculated by a woman who is smarter than they are, particularly if they are not confident in their own intellect. Pay close attention to your own motives when you feel like debating him. Sometimes, it’s just not worth it.
Also, marriage does not prevent further education, nor does it require immediate pregnancy.
rookebay 5y ago
I appreciate your insight. Again, I should’ve clarified that I don’t usually debate with him politically or otherwise. Sometimes we debate about ufc fights. But that’s when he actively asks me who I think will win and it’s for the love of the sport, not about being “right”.
And your last sentiment is very true, thank you.
cocodecoca 5y ago
Having babies is hard graft. It'll take up the majority of your energy and you will inevitably be dependent on him at some point whether you decide to have kids now or later.
That's part of married life! Providing you pick a good provider, it should be quite a pleasant experience!
You can choose to do babies now and career/education later, or you could do the reverse. Both are worth considering and I think more young people should carefully plan how they spend their twenties. Not to depress you but they don't last forever!
With debating and stuff, I used to be like this but I rarely debate anything ever now. Being likable is more important to me than being right. It's rare that anyone's mind is changed by debating or arguing and it's largely a waste of time. Now I study influence and persuasion....and mostly keep my political beliefs to myself. I'm more interested in asking people's opinions about science/politics and then working out to myself why they might think that. It's actually more interesting being neutral because people are more likely to open up to you about what they truly think, so you get a better impression of reality. You could practice being a detective rather than a debater. ????
rookebay 5y ago
Thank you!
My twenties not lasting forever is always on my mind haha.
I love the detective idea. I feel like just observing would be a better use of my energy.
cocodecoca 5y ago
Honestly I enjoy being in my 30s way more than being in my 20s!
NationalMouse 5y ago
•Okay so- intellectual is a good thing. It makes you interesting and able to form an educated opinion and no man wants to marry an air-headed bimbo anyway. So why do you feel the need to be argumentative? Being smart is fine but when you’re a smarty-pants to the point of obnoxious and have a need to prove people wrong, that’s where the line should be drawn. It is important to develop a way to have discussions without offending people and definitely without becoming argumentative. I would suggest sticking to the facts and not letting your emotions get too involved when there is a minor disagreement. I, too, enjoy intellectual conversations and when I see a person getting emotional over something I disagree with because I see it differently based on my own research and opinions, I make the conscious decision to stop before anything becomes an argument. They say ignorance is bliss and if proving you are right is going to disrupt the mood, it’s just not worth it sometimes.
•Going back to school is never a bad idea. In fact, most high-value men I’ve met personally would rather marry a woman who has a higher education because it shows a lot about her such as being able to follow through and stick with something that is very hard, shows she has ambition, and shows she will always have something to fall back on if Plan A doesn’t go her way. But school isn’t just about impressing him, it makes YOU an overall better person and that should make you feel confident, and confidence is beautiful!
•Sorry I don’t have any book recommendations for you but hopefully you get some in the comments :)
rookebay 5y ago
Thank you for your input.
I definitely have good-mannered arguments that stay in logic vs. emotion. I use the Socratic method quite frequently. I feel like you distinguished argumentative with combative, which helps me be proud of my intellect, thank you.
JackSkell0255 5y ago
23 seems young to be committed, but I’m old and things have possibly changed. This means that you grew into adulthood together... and hopefully as you both continue to grow, you will grow together.
Being argumentative is different from being curious about your partners reasoning. Two points: As a man, I (mostly) enjoy explaining my reasoning on something, as long as I only have to explain something a couple times on the same issue. Multiple discussions on the same issue make me feel she isn’t listening, doesn’t understand (doubtful), or is questioning my decision or my rightly-earned biases. And, discussions on little things would make me think my leadership is in doubt or is being constantly questioned. I don’t mind having my leadership questioned because I’m right so much of the time (now that I’m old) and because I’m no longer emotional about it. (Never was that emotional, just less so now). I also was able to admit when I was wrong. Amazing consolation sex after a couple of those admissions...
When I was married / LTR, I would consult her on an issue to give her involvement, get her invested in the successful outcome of the decision, and to see if there was something I missed - very useful with an intelligent partner and wise use of resources. But, if something was going against my financial judgement, my ethics, or my gut, I just wouldn’t do it.
I would have you continue with school. Is he at least as educated? Does he have an issue with it for intellectual, social, or “status” reasons? Bear in mind you are not married, your commitment should be to yourself first. Make sure that you both agree on the differences between marriage and cohabitation.
Because I was such a sap, I have even helped my (younger) partner thru her college, because we were not married and wasn’t going to allow herself to shortchange her life. Turned out to be good for both of us - she is doing ok all by herself, and she wasn’t the one.
Until you’re the one, work on yourself.
rookebay 5y ago
Thank you so much for your insight. I agree that 23 is young to be committed.
I think I misconstrued reality when I didn’t point out that I am really not very argumentative with him at all. In our social circle though, I definitely argue about politics and concerns that we both agree on. So we’re pretty united, but he doesn’t argue very much (with friends or otherwise). I do appreciate your take on the usefulness of intellect.
The rest of your advice is very applicable, I will remember it.
JackSkell0255 5y ago
I picked up that you weren’t argumentative with him, so I used the word discuss to reduce any adversarial tone. Good to hear you’re united!
Something else that comes to mind, is that it is usually helpful to keep discussion between yourselves in private. By inferencing your tone and reading your state of mind, I’m betting that you do. Very ladylike (can I say that without sounding condescending or sexist?) and I mean that as a compliment.
Best wishes!
rookebay 5y ago
Well thank you! (And yes, I hope most of us are here because we think being ladylike is a virtue)
BewareTheOldMan 5y ago
"I think this man wants to marry and have kids with me."
"I agree that 23 is young to be committed."
Both statements are seemingly contradictory because...four-year relationship and currently living together/cohabitation situation. He wants to support you financially while you attend college but not interested in marriage? There's no reason to support you in any way if there's no intent for marriage. I'm not tracking this behavior.
"...if we’re not married that’s a large investment on his part!"
I agree. Why are you guys NOT en route to certain marriage? Are there doubts on marriage?
rookebay 5y ago
I definitely see that it is contradictory too haha. On whose part are you asking if there are doubts on marriage?
BewareTheOldMan 5y ago
There seems to be contradiction on his side.
He's done everything except marriage and family...all of which comes at a later date, but cohabitation is generally assumed as a lead-in to marriage - but not always.
Offering to subsidize your education is huge - there's no sense investing $35 to $60K in a woman if you have zero intent on marriage. It makes no sense. Also - there's no guarantee that you'll marry him either - although it seems to be one of your goals.
rookebay 5y ago
Okay, I guess I’m struggling to see your point a little bit.
Maybe a little more background from me. I don’t think anything is guaranteed in life. Ever. Also, he has been the one mainly mentioning marriage and I have not as much. As I said, I am more of a yellow light in this department because I want to make sure I am bringing my best to a marriage. As pointed out, the difference between marriage and cohabitation should be clearly outlined which I think is a fault on my part currently,
BewareTheOldMan 5y ago
I agree - nothing is guaranteed in relationships or marriage - hence I advise young women in my family (and any others who wish to listen to older man advice) to establish terms, conditions, standards, and requirements (TCSR) up front and early. In short - leave no doubt.
Marriage is a major life-decision. It makes sense to know the eventual end-state very early in the relationship.
Also - the assumption is you're bringing your best right now. It's the same effort whether married and/or finishing undergrad/graduate studies. It's doable.
There's room and time for continued improvement and development for BOTH partners prior to and after marriage - it's a never-ending process that makes the overall marriage experience better for both parties.
The trend seems to do virtually everything associated with marriage in reverse-sequence.
It's just what I'm seeing nowadays...
rookebay 5y ago
Okay, very understandable, thank you. Do you mean in literal terms like: telling him my terms and conditions?
BewareTheOldMan 5y ago
You have a delicate situation in that being direct and expressing terms, conditions, requirements, etc. at this point (post-cohabitation + over 4-years in a relationship) seems like an ultimatum. Ultimatums never go over well in relationships, but the next time by virtue of "he has been the one mainly mentioning marriage" is a probably good moment - of course considering the optics and climate/conditions of the situation.
At that point, it's a good time to discuss future intentions on marriage based on timeline, number of kids, planning for future employment, child rearing, etc.
The serious conversation needs to happen at some point in the relationship, but it has to happen otherwise women can literally go years without knowing the future trajectory of a relationship...something which strikes me as a pretty peculiar situation.
I read a comment right here on RPW where a woman was furious with her live-in boyfriend of over ten years who had not yet proposed marriage despite her then-pregnancy. The main discussion topic was questions on cohabitation and potential issues and problems. That particular comment stood out as hugely problematic.
Not saying this is your future, but she should have been pretty firm on his plans about seven years earlier as that would have presented a much better scenario.
I get it - women hate to pressure men for fear of losing the relationship, but how in blue blazes are they going to know what's in his head if no one ever asks?
zionbeers 5y ago
Are you currently back at school, or are you planning to go?
I'm 25 and got engaged recently (similar relationship length to you), and I always envisioned myself getting married when I'd already finished my grad degree and was back at work with a higher salary--I've currently worked for three years and am applying to go back now. Here's the thing: chances are if you're planning to go back at any point, he'll support you to some extent unless you have tons and tons of money in the bank or land a huge scholarship. I figure why not get married and be able to share healthcare, tax benefits, etc. while you're not earning a big income? At this point, getting married, then going back to school, then having kids makes sense to me financially and otherwise.
Also, one of my most basic realizations with my FH is that he actively wants to support me. I think this holds true with lots of men with women who don't demand a ton. Being a provider is a pretty innate drive. This was hard to understand for me because I'm always worried about being a burden.
rookebay 5y ago
Same here! He has offered to help me with school but again, if we’re not married that’s a large investment on his part!
I have an associates and am planning to go to nursing school. I just want to make sure I will be able to pay for whatever’s not covered by loans, (books.. and parking was terribly expensive at my university) before I return.