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- Hide Preview | 71 Comments | submitted 5 months ago by adviceneeded-me [Post Locked]

Throwaway.

26F. And I think I have a developed an unhealthy attitude towards sex and relationships that has me worrying. Often I am not able to stop the self talk I have with myself which brings me down.

Around a year ago I was a high sex drive woman, with a man I loved and a relationship I was so proud of. Then things took a U turn, just like in my previous relationships, my then relationship went downhill. This has happened for the third time in my life.

Often times I am just feeding myself the destruction it causes due to enjoying sex. I feel attached, I fall in love, my life screws up because I think of my partners all the time, I want to cook for them, spend time with them, laugh with them....yada-yada!

While, the people I have been with have never really loved me, or even gotten me a flower or a small gift. When things got over, they have taken a fraction of time to get over me. Sex for them was so causal.I was so casual for them! It surprises me, how the woman they once held in their arms was so casually discarded by them.

What right do I have to enjoy sex when I am just a casual commodity in sex. These were the people who told me they want ‘love’, they want ‘relationship’. Inevitably I thought that since they are telling me, and we are dating, I assumed that they mean that they want a relationship with me, they want to love me.

Maybe I haven’t met the right person, but guess what I have never even seen a man around me who wants a relationship. I see people around me in relationships, and I have no idea how they even made it this far when all I have always been in my life was in the grey area.

I just don’t understand men, and I feel cursed as living heterosexual woman that I can’t even say NO to men and relationships, cause I want to love someone but I feel men just want sex. Although Reddit just like the rest to the world keeps saying “there are plenty of men around who want relationships”, I wonder why have I been only been ‘casual lay’ for all these men who proclaimed in the beginning they are looking for their ‘Queen

Although I am sexually inactive, my sexual drive has gone down. I feel like I wouldn’t touch anyone nor let anyone touch me. Sex, or even any form of touch for that matter is too risky. I feel especially scared of a man I start liking.

I don’t know what was my fault. Sure I could be slimmer (I am slim, but I can lose even more weight), earn more money, have more achievements. Is improvement in these areas what it takes to have a loving relationship? Otherwise, I did enough from my side by cooking food for my former boyfriends and being generous when it came to sex, also I was present when life was low for them and they needed emotional support.

I feel so dark and I helpless. Sorry if this was a long post, I just wish I could speak to someone.

Tl;Dr - I loved men who didn’t love me back. I feel no man wants a relationship, no man wants to love.

[-] ManguZa 31 Points 5 months ago

A woman who want to love "someone" will find men who want to have sex with "someone" (and another someone after that).

Vet a man ready to offer you the relationship you want.

Earning money and achievements are men things. You need pleasantness, admiration, support, joyfulness.

[-] [deleted] 5 months ago
[-] loneliness-inc 26 Points 5 months ago

Unfortunately for you, feminism removed all sexual constraints. Casual sex is no longer a societal sin. Neither is sex before marriage.

You didn't want casual sex, you wanted old fashioned love making. You live in a society where casual sex is acceptable. Therefore, you're bound to encounter people who have no qualms leaving you even after they held you in their arms. It isn't them who are defective, they're just following their biological drive for sex. It's feminism that brought this defect upon society by removing sexual constraints.

Even a man who wants something long term, still lives within society and society says to "test drive before you buy". What if you then don't want to buy? Does it mean they were using you for sex? No. It doesn't. It can mean that, but it doesn't necessarily mean that.

The Jewish guy you dated whose family would disapprove of your relationship - I'm not sure why you thought that would end well. These things don't usually end well. You're special but not special enough to override religious and cultural expectations.

The problem here isn't men nor the male desire for sex. The problem here is feminism and it's removal of sexual constraints. Your problem is giving up sex before you had a long term commitment. Don't point fingers at anyone else. Look inwards.

[-] DeeplyDisturbed1 26 Points 5 months ago

I don't suspect that well-meaning real talk will be welcomed here, but let me give it a try anyway:

  1. From my 20's I have learned that many women are just looking for fun. It is a time to find yourself and to "vet" men to find the right "one". Any flaw, real or perceived, in the relationship can start its unraveling. This was heart breaking to me, when I was younger. But now I understand women better after being here and reading feminist literature (I hate feminism, but I do listen). Still, a part of me feels sad that that little optimistic romantic boy inside me is dead, but that is what maturity is all about. Now I have learned to remain detached with women until I know I can take her seriously. I know now that millions of men have also learned this lesson. Which leads to....

  2. Those men you dated may very well have loved you, but as men gain painful experiences they learn to watch for certain signs and red flags. For some red flags, you do not discuss, argue, complain or otherwise mention it - you just break up or let things fizzle out as you pad your exit. This was a big life lesson for me, and it has served me well. What you see as a lack of love or caring or connection could very well be self-preservation. No?

  3. A simple rule in dating on my end is this: Let the woman do the proving in the beginning. When a woman wants something, she will move heaven and earth to get it. Women are not to be taken lightly, let me tell you! When a woman wants a man, she will do anything, and I mean ANYTHING with him sexually. She will travel long distances to see him, to feel him, to taste and hold and cuddle him. So any man of quality who does not feel enough energy from his woman won't likely waste his time.

There is a sort of corollary to this - if a man tries too hard with a woman, even after years of being together (and every man reading this knows what I mean) it can easily earn him contempt. Why this is, I do not know. Why a woman would not appreciate such things, you tell me. But it is damn near a law of the universe. It takes certain men a long time to appreciate this. You are going to have to take this one up with women or with nature, I am not sure. But I am here to testify.

The common denominators are you and cultural norms. Many of us have to come to terms with either or both (usually both). But once you do, it hurts less. Unfortunately it is nearly impossible to discuss these things with women - even online. There is a LOT of defensiveness about such things, so people get nasty and talk past each other instead of listening for their own good. Those people deserve the pain they experience. Karma is like that.

The good news is that YOU get to decide which way to go.

This is where you are right now, as best I can tell. I wish you the best. Things are weird these days.

[-] coffee_walk_paint 3 Points 5 months ago

I’m confused. She said she did these things (give and give) but the men didn’t react well. Can you give a more specific example to her situation? You just blamed her for doing what you did- being unlucky and then you blamed others on it.

[-] 3rd_viewpoint 4 Points 5 months ago

She said she did these things (give and give) but the men didn’t react well.

Perhaps, she was giving to the wrong people? If there is no gratitude and reciprocation, what's the point in continued giving?

[-] ragnarockette 17 Points 5 months ago

I’m sorry you’re hurting.

I confused “I have a high sex drive” with “I actually have crippling self loathing that I try to cure with physical intimacy” for years. This might be the same for you.

The hard truth is men will have sex with almost anyone. I fully believe if the situation was right that Tom Brady would probably have sex with me. But that in no way means that Tom Brady wants to have a relationship or build a life with me. Those are just completely different things.

You need to focus on vetting men to see if they want the latter. That’s what makes them deserving of the former.

[-] adviceneeded-me 3 Points 5 months ago

Thank you for your kind comment.

I just want to say it’s a little incorrect analogy when u compare the example of Tom Brady with my exes. Allow me to explain. Tom Bardy will have sex with you for sure but he want to tell you he is looking for love, he will tell you upfront that this No stings attached.

I have been with my exes from 3 years to 6 months (last ex). They didn’t promise me a marriage but we weren’t just having sex. My last ex used to say “we are like two naked souls with each other, so vulnerable and so open”. It’s what makes me angry and hurt the most, that it didn’t take him any time to get over me, because he wasn’t in love with me the way I was. I am just angry that he didn’t love me, I am angry that I didn’t inspire him to love me, and how could he love me when he was still mourning the loss of his last relationship.

You are absolutely right when you say that I need to vet better. You know what’s wrong in the vetting process? There are no men who want relationships. Truly, every man I come across says a variation of “not into serious stuff”. I am just hurt, angry and jaded.

[-] 3rd_viewpoint 5 Points 5 months ago

, every man I come across says a variation of “not into serious stuff”.

Because very often, once a man shows attachment, esp. early, the women run for the hills.

There are no men who want relationships.

You are making a cognitive mistake here of generalizing. I would phrase that as "I have not met men who want relationships. Or, "I don't know how to select men who wants relationships".

[-] adviceneeded-me 0 Points 5 months ago

Because very often, once a man shows attachment, esp. early, the women run for the hills.

This is really really true. I am guilty of running away from men who came on too strong. Like within 2-3 days of texting, “I think I am falling in love with you”. “I want a serious relationship with you”, there was one guy who demanded after date number 1 “you will announce to all your friends and family that from today onwards you have a new boyfriend”.

Pheww...this sounds too good to be true. If ur falling in love with me after 2 days of texting, clearly there is something wrong with u”. —————-

But, then I am at the other end. After 3 months, if the Guy is telling me that we are in the grey zone, I like ur company, find u attractive but don’t have a real definition of who “we” are. This is where I always end up. And I am at my wits end to change this pattern. Almost relationships are killing me.

After 3 months of cooking him dinner and having him cry in arms about the shit he going through and being his emotional rock, I am in love. I might not say it aloud, but this kind of vulnerable sharing makes me fall in love!

And it hurts to know he is not in love. It hurts a lot.

So what to do? Not take a guy ultra seriously if he says “not into serious stuff”?

What to do here? Not have any hopes but still give it a shot because stars can align and it might just work? I know from lot of reading on this sub that there are women who have gotten ring by doing this. I just don’t feel this is for me because I have an anxious attachment style. The roller coaster of emotions in a relationship affects my mental and physical health.

/u/girlwithabike

/u/loneliness-inc

[-] girlwithabike 3 Points 5 months ago

I know from lot of reading on this sub that there are women who have gotten ring by doing this.

I'll assume that this part is why you tagged me :-P

Without 'the talk' it is important that there are signs he is showing more investment in your and the relationship. If he's telling you that he doesn't know who "we" are then I'd cut and run.

But I also wonder if you aren't too invested at 3 months. Unless there is a prior history (ie: you've been friends for a while) then it sounds terribly early to be regularly cooking him dinner and being his emotional rock. That should still be the honeymoon phase where you are both on your best new relationship behavior. He should still be trying to impress you as much as you are trying to impress him.

You shouldn't be sticking around in a relationship that is going no where. The women who have gone from FWB to something more are playing their girl game with men who are indicating investment. These relationships don't typically start with the woman seeking a relationship and these women are probably going to have a different style of attachment and needs in the short term. It's not an ideal way to approach a new relationship if you are adamantly seeking commitment, it's the way to handle a situation you are in if you've caught feelz. It's also only one strategy.

Selecting for men who are interested in commitment (and are seeking a woman to commit to) is a completely viable strategy. It's what is most often promoted around here. Further, if you have an anxious attachment style (which you should work on for your own mental health and well being) then you would be better off finding a man with higher level beta traits. You need beta-comfort rather than alpha-tingles. This is what you will select for if you set the parameters early and postpone sex until you have indications of commitment from him.

[-] adviceneeded-me 2 Points 5 months ago

Something that I needed to hear from a person who has really been there! Thank you for this, I ll have this printed and glued in my man diary.

But I also wonder if you aren't too invested at 3 months.

From the advices that I have gotten, I have concluded that I had been rather stupid in vetting my former lovers. In last boyfriends case, I guess things just escalated too quickly in about everything (sex, cooking and even form his part how he opened up to me while other men would take a lifetime before they can trust a woman to cry in her arms). May sound gross because man crying is considered repulsive in RP, but I fell love how he trusted me.

I'll assume that this part is why you tagged me :-P

100%

Also, congratulations for the pregnancy! ????

[-] girlwithabike 3 Points 5 months ago

FWIW, when I wrote the plate to wife post, it was because it goes against the grain of the standard 'safe' advice on RPW but, I believe, still falls within the bounds of an RP relationship. It was meant to speak to the people in that situation now, telling them they hadn't screwed everything up by not following a tradcon path. It wasn't meant to be a set piece of advice that will work for every woman here. Some people say that promoting strategies like mine make us a "plate school" but I believe they are still viable strategies when targeting men with higher alpha traits. You have to a. want a man with higher alpha traits and b. be willing to engage in high risk / high reward behavior. Both my risk tolerance and my ncount were high so I had the ability to throw caution to the wind.

For it to be worthwhile, you have to want that type of man. You probably would hate my husband. He goes off on his own regularly. He's left me alone through much of our early relationship when he was focusing on his schooling and career. We've had threesomes with other women. He loves himself a good (or dive) strip club. These things don't bother me. I imagine a few if not all would bother you. So what worked for me to get the man I got, will not necessarily get you the type of man that you need.

May sound gross because man crying is considered repulsive in RP, but I fell love how he trusted me.

It's not gross. Most women will not be repulsed by the tears of a man they love. They will not be sexually attracted to the tears of a man they love. Men however can both love and lust you through your tears. This is why, IMO, RP men believe they can show no vulnerability. It turns a woman to nurture mode and kills her sex drive. Men view this as the death of love. And if it occurs too early, before there is a sufficient cache of respect built up, it may in fact kill a relationship because it turns off attraction.

Do be careful that you aren't falling in love with him while you are in nurture mode. You want to see him predominantly as a sexy, confident man who you respect. If you see him as a poor soul to hug and take care of, as a man who needs you that's a set up for long term failure.

Also, congratulations for the pregnancy!

Thank you! :-D

[-] adviceneeded-me 2 Points 5 months ago

Okeey! My eyes widened as I read your husbands qualities. When I sense such qualities in a man I run for my life. Not only will I hate your husband, your husband would feel the same towards me. Your husband is Chad. Chad is absolutely not my type. There is a funny post made on some sub where they are saying I sleep with only Chad.

Chads don’t like clingy girls like me who wants reassurance and attention all the time, who are lovey dovey all the time. I agree it worked out for you because you are of made up from the same substance he is made up of. You are a secure lady yourself. I kind of remember how your husband once said “me and my wife fit better together than the stones of Machu-Pichu”. (Not a stalker, but the uniqueness of the sentence :D)

Also, You are just so bang on, at so many things you said. Up until now I use to think that I want an Alpha man, but if Alpha man comes with the traits you describe of your husband, I am better off with a more beta man. And beta necessarily dosent mean a wimpy spineless guy. There’s are plenty of men in between with the balance of alpha and beta, which gets discussed on this sub a lot.

Edit grammar.

[-] girlwithabike 3 Points 5 months ago

Your husband is Chad.

He's more like Chad's older and more mature brother Brad :-P.

While I left out any beta traits he has, and he is married and starting a family so there are definitely beta traits there...yes, I had a feeling that he would be a man who you would run from.

He and I are well suited to each other. When I was younger, I dated a man who you probably would have gotten along better with. He put me first in most things. We were best friends and talked all the time. It wasn't what I needed and as a result our sex life was dead at age 22. You should always consider the source of advice. Especially if the advice isn't targeted at you and your situation specifically.

After reading your post and comments I'm fairly sure of two things: 1. You should follow u/3rd_viewpoint 's suggestions about some sort of therapy for your anxiety/abandonment (a lot of what he has to say has been very solid IMO)

You need to work on your anxiety in general , because fear skews your perception and heightened adrenaline makes you see threats where there are none. For this, you would need to do psychotherapy to process those instances of abandonment and also learn general anxiety reducing techniques. That would be meditation, or CBD or Valerian if you're looking for herbal remedies.

and 2. you should not look for a man with too heavy a balance of alpha. This post from the Great Sadie Dunham makes the case for the greater beta. I think this is probably fits your personality better.

Good luck in your search :-)

[-] loneliness-inc 2 Points 5 months ago

You can't have it both ways. You're either open to having the guy you date fall in love with you or you aren't. If you want him to fall in love with you, it'll happen when he's ready. That might be after 3 days, it might be after 3 years. It won't necessarily be at your perfect 3 month mark.

At least you admit that you run away from male love and emotional investment, most women don't admit to it even though they do it. Truth is that women run away from man's emotional investment even after being together for years. If a man is hesitant to be emotionally invested - this is why.

There's nothing more that a man wants than to fall head over heels for a good woman. But then a man does just that and the result is, his woman becoming less and less interested in sex as she begins to nag, criticize and otherwise walk all over him. Some men learn after one such relationship, others learn after a few. We learn to keep our emotions to ourselves because women will use said emotions as weapons. This is simply the reality of life.

There's a reason why your great grandfather hardly ever showed emotion to your great grandmother. If he did, it would have dried up her pussy like the Sahara desert. Unfortunately for you, you live in a time when less men need or want a relationship altogether and where they stand to lose so much more by opening up emotionally. It'll be more difficult to find such a man but it isn't impossible. You need to prove yourself worthy of him opening up. If your sexual desire for him goes down after he opens up, if you walk all over him, if you run away or other such things, you'd have proven yourself unworthy of male love.

[-] 3rd_viewpoint 1 Point 5 months ago

What to do here? Not have any hopes but still give it a shot because stars can align and it might just work?

What do you want the guy to do then, in 3months?

[-] adviceneeded-me 1 Point 5 months ago

3 months is a reasonable time to just say “yea, this is a relationship”.

At 3 months mark if a man tells me “I have no idea who/what we are!”. The anxiety that he will disappear tomorrow, dump me out of the blue lingers and kills me every minute.

[-] 3rd_viewpoint 1 Point 5 months ago

The anxiety that he will disappear tomorrow, dump me out of the blue lingers and kills me every minute.

Usually,at least in my experience, there is no reason to dump somebody "out of the blue". Why do you think that he would dump you out of the blue?

Why is a verbal declaration of " we are an item" so important for you?

[-] adviceneeded-me 1 Point 5 months ago

Why is a verbal declaration of " we are an item" so important for you?

I guess someone with an anxious attachment styles needs reassurance.

Excerpt From: Amir Levine. “Attached.”

•Believing this is your only chance for love, one mistake and I will lose all that I have.

•”People with an anxious attachment style are indeed more vigilant to changes in others’ emotional expression and can have a higher degree of accuracy and sensitivity to other people’s cues.”

•”If you have an anxious attachment style, you possess a unique ability to sense when your relationship is threatened. Even a slight hint that something may be wrong will activate your attachment system, and once it’s activated, you are unable to calm down until you get a clear indication from your partner that he or she is truly there for you and that the relationship is safe.”

And all this is true in every way. I feel exactly like this.

Having a reassurance feels soothing to a racing heart that’s thinking the worst case scenario. Atleast I am able to calm myself by telling myself “hey, he said we are in a relationship, he will atleast have the decency to tell me that he breaking up and He is will not just ghost.

Truth being, I am literally crying as I type this because you may think it’s not a norm to dump someone out of the blue but it’s happened twice to me. Jewish boyfriend of 3 years ghosted me one day. This was the time that things weren’t good between us, we were hanging on to each other by a thin thread. He ghosts, nowhere to be found, not answering call, blocked my phone number. Added me on Facebook, 4 months later just 3 days shy of sharing his engagement pictures on social media with his good Jewish wife. I don’t wish this pain on my worst enemy.

Last boyfriend of 6 months was a very kind person, but he had his demons to deal with regarding his career, ex gf, and family. We were very sexual from the beginning but just hadn’t had intercourse until the 5 months mark. Finally we have sex, and boom ????! He dosent contact me for 5 days, I reach out to him, he says he is not feeling well. Dosent communicate much for next 20 days. I send him a message that I am not interested in seeing him anymore, he tells me how having sex with me made him guilty because he is still not over his ex. And We breakup ! Atleast he met me and gave me a closure unlike the boyfriend before him.

———————————————————

I want to feel secure and not like this. Hence I want to know if I mean something to him.

[-] 3rd_viewpoint 2 Points 5 months ago

Thank you for sharing that. I really appreciate that. I fell so sorry for you, it must be very painful to put a lot of emotion into a relationship and then get this.

Did your father or father figure divorce your mother or abandon you, by any chance?

[-] adviceneeded-me 1 Point 5 months ago

I have no idea where my anxious attachment style comes from. Because I had a decent childhood, my parents are still together. We are very close as a family.

I am going to start therapy in some time, maybe I will know then.

Thanks for taking interest in a strangers life.

[-] [deleted] 5 months ago
[-] oh_buh_boy 5 Points 5 months ago

Honey here’s my suggestion.

Do a month or two of weekly therapy. I too have an unhealthy relationship with sex and intimacy. This shit can stem back all the way to your childhood. I don’t know what your relationship with your parents looks like but that’s usually the first thing a therapist looks into. It really does help and after a while you start to feel peaceful again.

I think you should just take a break and come to accept yourself before getting back into one of these relationships as well. It’s like burn out. Losing weight and making more money won’t change who you are or how attractive you are. It has to be your personality. You need to identify your unhealthy patterns. Figure out if you’re co dependent. Yes go to the gym and advance your career, that’s all great, but also take a big focus with exercising your mental health. Life is long and beautiful and you will meet the right man one day, for now just do you.

Best of luck.

[-] adviceneeded-me 2 Points 5 months ago

This is such a beautiful advice. Thank you.

I will definitely try therapy. I tried therapy in the past and gave it up after 1 or 2 sessions because I didn’t feel any connect with the therapist, I ll try to look for a better one.

Also, been on nunmode for some, while it has made a ton of difference in lot of departments but I am not quite over my last ex, and in an unhealthy state to even date anyone right now. I think therapy is what it will take to be at peace.

[-] oh_buh_boy 5 Points 5 months ago

Therapists are like finding a boyfriend

A good one is kind of hard to find

But sometimes you get lucky and have a jolly time

[-] 3rd_viewpoint 1 Point 5 months ago

Yes, like any professional.

Therapists are like finding a boyfriend

A good one is kind of hard to find

[-] Idontpostmuch123 4 Points 5 months ago

I'm sorry that happened to you. If it makes you feel any better, just know you're not the first woman this has happened to and you certainly won't be the last.

It could be that you're dating outside your league in terms of what you can get for a relationship. With that said, some guys just don't want a relationship at all, at least at that point in their life, and nothing you say or do could really change that. There are guys who will cheat on women who are way more attractive in many different ways with women who really don't have a lot going for them. Sometimes, it really just comes down to screening harder and being willing to walk away if you see too many red flags.

I hope you get to feeling better.

[-] adviceneeded-me 1 Point 5 months ago

Thank you for ur kind message and well wishes.

Do I date people out of my league? Well, I have given a lot of thought to it and even asked my well wishers to give an objective feedback. I have been told No.

Sure one of my ex was far more intellectual and intelligent than me. He was very humble about it though. But he left me because he came from an ultra conservative Jewish community where marriage to non-jew is frowned upon, even results in disowning of his family from community. I would want to believe he loved me in that time period but then I have my doubts with the ugly ways in which he broke up.

My recent ex. I always thought he is a bit good looking than me, but not as if he was a Greek God. It’s not uncommon to see a 7 and 8 paired up together, and yea we were happy couple, atleast for sometime. He broke up because he wasn’t over his ex and I believe him, he wasn’t bad person. He wasn’t over his ex from the beginning of our relationship, something that he kept hidden from me. He came with too much baggage that this relationship wasn’t meant to be.

So, to say have I been dating out of my league? Instead of saying a NO and closing case, I leave this open for other to give their comments. Edited.

[-] Rasphodi 2 Points 5 months ago

Thank you for the elaboration. I too have fallen into the trap of giving too much of myself to a certain date or relationship where the other person was not necessarily reciprocating, and I have been told by friends and family that I am too nice and a "giver", aka don't know how to say no for requests. What has helped me in dating is taking sometime to set my own boundaries, what behaviour I accept, my red flags, the purpose of dating for me (which feeds into what your criteria you are looking for in your date), as well as learning ways to gently decline. I have read various sources on the matter where people respect you more if you have your boundaries and respect them yourself. As such, I try not to "give"too much during the earlier stages of dating and slowly give more as the relationship progresses. You use the example of cooking dinner for him or with him, personally I'd only do something like this if we are nearing the wedding date, but again I do come from a conservative family. Hope this helps.

edit: grammar

[-] rayvaughnmd 1 Point 5 months ago

Therapy is a good idea. Mainly to figure out why you choose unavailable men. I may be wrong, but I thought it's pretty well known that Jewish men and women are encouraged (pressured) to marry in the faith (similar to many other groups) by family and the community. Getting into a relationship with an Orthodox Jewish man, if one is not also an Orthodox Jew (even less observant Jews fall into this category), has almost no chance of long term success (source - am Jewish). Similarly, why get serious about someone who is recently out of a relationship, and not fully over it? Again, this situation seems unlikely to succeed in the long term as well. You need to vet carefully, yes, but you also need to find out why you make the choices you make, when the odds are stacked against you. I would like to add that I am a man, married 28 years.

[-] [deleted] 5 months ago
[-] [deleted] 12 Points 5 months ago

[deleted]

[-] redditor_bob 2 Points 5 months ago

But she hasn't been told a lie, because she never even asked the question. She was in a relationship, but what kind of a relationship? Many men and women are serial monogamists/daters. You date a person for a few months, have lots of sex with them, then move on to another one. They moved on easily, because that was the intention for them right from the start.

OP exemplifies Nice Girl Behavior: insert sex/food tokens, receive commitment from a man of your choice, without regard of what he wants or desires. There is an important step of vetting that is missing in all these situations: she can't say no to sex with men who don't love her. They have it backwards: find a Good Man first who thinks likewise of you, then do the things, instead of doing the things and expecting him to turn out to be a Good Man.

[-] adviceneeded-me 1 Point 5 months ago

Thank you and will do.

[-] loneliness-inc -1 Point 5 months ago

She's confused because she's been told a lie by those men. Those men are not attracted to her but because she has something aka sex, well why not? I give you sex you give me sex, all is good.

If a man used her for sex, doesn't mean he isn't attracted to her, it just means he didn't want a LTR with her (or at all).

It isn't clear that these men used her for sex altogether. Maybe they truly intended to have a relationship but then it didn't work out.

The real culprit here is the acceptance of casual sex in society. No longer is there an expectation of sex within marriage only.

[-] adviceneeded-me 1 Point 5 months ago

Thank you so much, this is much more mature and objective than the user above who said my exes were’nt attracted to me”,. Clearly I am not a hideous looking woman and nether were my exes some Greek god with six packs, and 6 figure incomes that they had other options and hence could dump me immediately. The options they had were similar to me, just as I had options who were similar to them!

My last ex is someone who is still giving me pain. I felt I came to serious relationship zone closest with him. But the poor guy was mourning the loss of his ex, which I sadly only found out when I was deep in love with him. So no, I know he didn’t use me for sex because he would have waited as much as I wanted. He never pushed for sex but sex happened because it was the most natural thing that could happen between us.

My Jewish ex before this guy, did use words like love, girlfriend and relationship. But I sincerely doubt his love with the cruel most way he used for breaking up. My boyfriend of 3 years would have found another better woman in this time if he wanted to use me. We had sex because he couldn’t keep his hands and tongue off me.

My post is not about being used for sex. My post is about how easily these exes whom I loved got over me. They were never in love, and it’s makes me angry, and very hurt.

For one thing posting on this sub made me realise is that, vetting better. And obviously sex later. Now that my sexdrive has gone in the trash, sex will be off the table.

[-] Cristoff13 3 Points 5 months ago

You were with these men from 6 months to three years? They were faithful to you (as far as you know)? They officially broke up (not just "ghosted" you)?

You were actually in relationships with them. They weren't using you for sex. They broke up with you because they felt the relationships had run their course, which is normal. They probably were sad, but were able to move on. This is actually normal. I think the issue here is that you may feel emotions stronger than average. If delaying sex slows down how fast you develop these powerful emotions, perhaps that might work for you. Although the quality of men you will be able to attract will probably be lower.

I don’t know what was my fault. Sure I could be slimmer (I am slim, but I can lose even more weight), earn more money, have more achievements. Is improvement in these areas what it takes to have a loving relationship?

Men largely don't care about money and achievements. That's a red pill truth.

[-] Pixie0310 5 Points 5 months ago

Men who want relationships are men who do not have options.

This is not always true.

If it was, no attractive man would ever be in a monogamous relationship, and some are - they are just rare. And, basically, they are what the RPW is seeking and vetting for.

[-] ChrisBrownApologist 3 Points 5 months ago

Ofc it's not true 100 percent of the time but often enough

[-] JJ3314 4 Points 5 months ago

“Men who want relationships are men who do not have options.”

I think this is somewhat of a distortion of the reality of the situation. Women who have been alpha widowed (especially by a man with higher SMV than them) might feel this way, as they simultaneously obsess on the man who pumped and dumped them, while maligning men closer to their level.

Even attractive men will feel a desire to pair bond. There’s no rule that being attractive as a man suddenly renders you incapable of developing romantic feelings for a woman, although being promiscuous may result in a diminished regard for women generally as you see problematic patterns of behavior repeated across multiple women. It’s more fair to say that an attractive man who has some knowledge of his own attractiveness (some young men dont) will have standards—so they wont submit to a relationship with just anyone.

[-] theFriendly_Duck 3 Points 5 months ago

So what does one do? Settle for a man that's not desirable to them because they're the only ones that want a relationship? That doesn't seem right

[-] JJ3314 6 Points 5 months ago

It’s about as “right” as an unattractive woman expecting to land an attracive man.

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[-] gingerkaffirlime 3 Points 5 months ago

If you're old enough to write shitty comments then you're old enough to take the blame for them and not palm the blame off onto your mom.

If you're aware of something wrong with your personality then work on it instead of spewing crappy advice to people who are already confused.

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[-] pearlsandstilettos 2 Points 5 months ago

If you are incapable of being charitable towards women because of your own history, then you cannot post on RPW.

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[-] pearlsandstilettos 5 Points 5 months ago

This sounds an awful lot like the angsty complaints of a former nice guy. I don't think you understand the goals of the women here based on this comment.

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[-] falloutnewsalem 3 Points 5 months ago

hey op - I relate, especially in the case of men I've openly adored (who I knew I liked them back,) ending up fucking me over. where are you meeting these men? strangely enough, a lot of men I've met on tinder wanted a relationship, but hinge and bumble seem like better options.

the reasons you listed are part of what drew me to this sub. but having a guy sleep in my bed without the option of sex after we cook a meal and watch a movie has had most men I've done this to absolutely wild for me.

[-] adviceneeded-me 1 Point 5 months ago

Without the option of sex after we cook.

If this is what it takes for a relationship!

Met my first BF at school in 4th grade.

Second at a conference.

Third on Hinge.

Never been a fan of the tinder thing.

[-] [deleted] 2 Points 5 months ago

I’m also 26 and I go through seasons of what you feel, largely for the same reason. Your problem is getting.

It is hard to get a guy when you don’t know the signs of a good man. The guys you date probably don’t seem so bad when you begin dating them, and sometimes you just can’t anticipate what someone will do— but there are things you can definitely avoid.

Sometimes you get a vibe off a person— maybe the date is going great but it feels impersonal. Run, likely player. Maybe you’re trying to hold off on sex and start feeling like you’re at risk of losing the guy. Run, a guy who is invested won’t turn cold if you want to wait. Does he flake? Is he slow to soften up to you? Do you feel early on like you’re the one proving yourself to him? Run! Think back to your past relationships and I bet there will be times when you sort of felt something happening and it did. You just need to get good at shutting things down when the red flags appear and going for guys with the capacity for partnership.

It took me a long time to pick up the cues, because sometimes they aren’t obvious. I have still tricked myself into trusting a man just because he seemed like a great catch; but I can tell you now that whether or not you want to admit something is amiss, you WILL feel it on some level. Like you, I often just fall into the person I’m seeing. I love taking care of someone and I love belonging to somebody. But all your generosity is. gift and a vulnerability— it is something to allude to, not to give away to just anybody. Treat that giving nature the same way you’d treat sex.

Also, it’s ok to be sexual. You can absolutely find a sexual man who is also amazing for you. Get yourself a guy who knows that sex gets better with time. A guy who is excited by your high sex drive and who wants to explore your sexuality with you. Sex isn’t just something you do together, it can be reflective of your whole relationship and dynamic together.

[-] adviceneeded-me 1 Point 5 months ago

Thank you for your comment lady.

you WILL feel it on some level.

This is so true. All the relationships did have some red flags. I especially ignored some red flags in my last relationship because I was like “this is 111th guy I have gone on date with and out of all the lot atleast he is interested in a relationship, let me give him a chance”.

I guess the key is not to be jaded that so many guys don’t want a relationship.

[-] 3rd_viewpoint 1 Point 5 months ago

I guess the key is not to be jaded that so many guys don’t want a relationship.

Well, you can treat that as training for something in the future. Or, you can improve yourself so that you're the best he's ever encountered and he'll WANT a relationship with you.

Also, I have a problem with this advice:

Maybe you’re trying to hold off on sex and start feeling like you’re at risk of losing the guy. Run, a guy who is invested won’t turn cold if you want to wait.

If there's no sex with the girl by the 4th date, I'm out. And I've had marriage proposals from women, just to give you some idea that I'm not some deadbeat player.

My thoughts on advice above.

Does he flake?

If yes, it's disrespect. Leave if it's a consistent issue.

Do you feel early on like you’re the one proving yourself to him? Run!

Agree. It's subtle manipulation. You should be proving yourselves to each other. It's mutual and respectful.

. You just need to get good at shutting things down when the red flags appear and going for guys with the capacity for partnership.

You need to be aware of these things. Keep an encrypted diary where you just write things down dispassionately, without your judgement. "He didn't come for a date", not "he was a prick". You'll see trends over time.

Once you see a negative trend, you won't need to make efforts to shut things down.

It took me a long time to pick up the cues, because sometimes they aren’t obvious. I have still tricked myself into trusting a man just because he seemed like a great catch;

Self talk where you are convincing yourself he's good is one of the signs something's off. Especially if it's many times.

but I can tell you now that whether or not you want to admit something is amiss, you WILL feel it on some level. Like you, I often just fall into the person I’m seeing. I love taking care of someone and I love belonging to somebody. But all your generosity is. gift and a vulnerability— it is something to allude to, not to give away to just anybody. Treat that giving nature the same way you’d treat sex.

YES, AGREE TO THIS.!

Also, it’s ok to be sexual.

It's a glue for the relationship. Study sex like you study any other subject in college. Too many women are clueless and passive in bed. There are so many good sources of this info.

[-] cynicalhousewife 2 Points 5 months ago

Maybe you are going for the wrong type of man? You need to find out why this is so you can have the type of relationship that it is you want. You say these men don't give you gifts and don't appear to take a long time to get over you, maybe you are going for hyper rational, less sentimental men. Perhaps go for men with more emotional warmth and expression. If that is what you want you need to sit down and have a think about why you are not with that type of man and make steps to meet men that you actually feel compatible with.

[-] dian_slay26 2 Points 5 months ago

It's about how you feel about yourself. If you see holes in your life that you think would cause a man to not want to have a relationship with you, that's what you are thinking of yourself and probably projecting. Also, you can say no to a just sex relationship with a man, it's called discipline and self control. It's not that men don't want to love you, you are probably surrounded by men that want to love you, but you don't pay close enough attention or don't want them. Maybe you're letting lust lead you instead of properly vetting the men you sleep with, seeing if you actually enjoy who they are and if they are good relationship material. An issue I had was throwing everything into men that hadn't fully committed to me first. If you are giving away all your gifts away ( cooking, affection, sex, attention, time etc..) what is the point of the man needing to escalate the relationship when you are giving your full self from jump? Get your life in order, find some hobbies and passions. Open your eyes while dating and VET these men, don't just take their word for it!

[-] adviceneeded-me 0 Points 5 months ago

Beautiful. Thank you internet stranger for this comment. I will remember what u said for a long time!

[-] EclecticRenaissance 2 Points 5 months ago

I don't wanna do any victim-blaming but...I'll just relate it to myself I guess. The general idea, is, to discover what you're doing that's attracting these types of relationships in your life.

I, was attracting undesirable people in my life for quite some time. I was giving & generally felt being taken advantage of. What I actually needed to do, was process some childhood trauma. I had a subconscious belief that I deserved punishment, which, I didn't know of course. It took me from the age of 25 - 33 to figure it out, learn a regressive therapy technique, apply it to myself in my own unique way, & finally test it out to see that it had worked.

After I did this, the way I looked at relationships changed. It was weird. It went against everything I was told about change. That was, to slowly change a habit over a long period of time. I essentially cried for about 20 hours over a months time, & was changed forever.

There might be something you're holding onto, that's putting out a vibe, that certain types of people are attracted to. If you can get rid of this, all of a sudden those people will become naked & repulsive to your mental well being.

[-] trpchecker 2 Points 5 months ago

Find men who you are attracted to and genuinly connect with. Lot of immature guys are just like immature girls. Immature guys chase bad girls. Immature girls chase bad boys.

They are not looking for relationship. They are looking for that drama. Simple boring bonding relationship doesn't work for them.

Find someone who is mature. Doesn't make decisions emotionally. Has very masculine tendencies. Has strong principles and respect towards himself.

Think about it like this. Take a guy you dated or will date and jot down things about him that are unique to him. See if he has these traits. If he doesn't he's not masculine to complement your feminine approach.

Examples

  1. How he reacts to stress/bad news. Masculine men don't overreact and get to solving the problem or will try to get to the point. They won't revel in the emotions of the topic. There won't be I feel sentences.

  2. What kind of food/drinks he orders. Masculine men have very strong tastes. They will stick to some type of food or drink. They very likely won't be let's try this. Let's try that etc. You'd know what he likes by 3 dinners/lunches.

  3. Hobbies : Will have at least one actively pursuing hobby. That you know he loves doing. This does not include Gymming. It's not a hobby imo.

  4. Masculine men do not like giving gifts/flowers etc. It's just a social construct they think they should do to please women. You can discern this out of them. When this guy buys you a gift or flowers he will probably not care if you loved it or not. He will do it because he thinks that's the right thing to do. He however would like to give gifts that are of use to you.

  5. Will be good with tools and getting things done done around the house. Problem solving is in men's core.

  6. Most importantly he will do things because he believes it's what needs to be done.

  7. Masculine men do not like getting into dramatical fights with their women that solves no purpose. Everything they do will be for a purpose and as a women you will know what the purpose is without him having to mention it. Help him achieve that purpose

I'mmature men do not have these things. They might have some but they will probably not have all these qualities. They live and experience life through emotions and won't have a strong frame that you can describe proudly to your friends. Basically some men have feminine qualities because of mom's upbringing or heavy betafying by their ex/current girlfriends warping their sense of who they are. You might want to fix those but it's not easy. Some things you can and some cannot. It's up to you to decide

You need to figure out someone with such qualities before you look for commitment from him. And let them lead you into the relationship. Validate them for their qualities and support their goals. Be loyal and brutally honest and expect the same from him and never gossip about your relationship issues with your friends. This will build respect. Remember to wear your thoughts on your sleeve. The man should be able to handle your emotions. We are born to do that. Once you see these check boxes filling up, everything will automatically fall into place.

Most women don't follow these steps to vet just like most masculine men don't follow steps to get the right girl for a relationship.

You have a lot of redpill knowledge that you can make use of to get the relationship you want. Hope this helps and good luck to you. This is an advice from the male perspective.

[-] adviceneeded-me 1 Point 5 months ago

I want to sincerely thank you for taking time to write this and help an Internet stranger. Along with you & a lot of other people on this sub have made it clear to me that I have had such lovers in the past because of my improper vetting skills. I thank you for the insights, and will implement the very things you mentioned to me. Edited once.

[-] organicsunshine 1 Point 5 months ago

Honestly, I would talk to a behavioral therapist.

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[-] adviceneeded-me 1 Point 5 months ago

Thank u.

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[-] WonderfulandValuable -1 Point 5 months ago

Some people are just selfish. Selfish people cheat.