The post that instigated my question has been removed but the comments still have good value to add to a discussion.
I'd like to hear from women who married as virgins, women who waited for sex with new partners (after having sex with other men), or any women who hold the belief that virginity itself is a virtue or of value to their own SMP/RMP.
I'm not asking you to explain what TRP men have to say, I'm hoping for actual experiences that benefited the woman and what those benefits were.
Please take my posting in the good faith it's being asked with, I am not asking to debate RP theory or really debate anything at all. I'm asking for evidence of this theory in practice! Thanks in advance ladies!
Spazzy19 7y ago
My first real boyfriend and I waited 2.5 years to have sex (I was 20 and he was 18). He wasn't religious, but his family was HUGE on reputation and he wanted to wait until marriage . We messed around a lot, and I performed oral regularly, but no actual intercourse. I am HL and couldn't wait until we could finally be together.
So one Valentine's Day celebration he decided it was the perfect moment and we made love. I was in heaven. It was beautiful even though it was short lived, lol. I couldn't wait to have more.
But the next day he woke up and said 3 things to me. 1. Can we pretend this didn't happen? 2. We can't do this again until we're married (another 2.5 yrs away or more). 3. Promise you won't tell a soul about this.
It finally dawned on me he was ashamed, but I took it like a stab to the heart. I had been filled with such joy and love and THAT was his response? Soul crushing. We broke up shortly thereafter.
Since then my other 2 partnerships (including a 12 yr relationship with my ex husband) became sexual pretty quickly. But I have to know the person for a while before getting physical to determine if they're worthwhile. My recent ex bf and I have known each other for 2 years but dated for the past 7 months. My marriage had suffered from sexual issues related to his porn addiction, so having someone to have sex with frequently and lovingly was amazing. I miss it, but I'm not going to just jump into bed with whomever.
Landry86 7y ago
Why? That was a good thread and a very important topic to discuss!!!
To answer: men just respect you for it. Real men, anyway... It's a good way to weed out the bad ones!
[deleted] 7y ago
IDK why the thread was removed, probably because it violates the sidehar's guidelines. It was mod removed rather than deleted.
Can you describe the difference between feeling respected for your abstinence vs not feeling respected. I'm looking for tangible results more than feelings. What did that respect or lack of respect look like? Can you be more in depth? Was this your personal experience or just an answer you felt compelled to give after reading the post? Thanks!
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Landry86 7y ago
For me personally, it's more like... I find men who push sex annoying. When I deny them access, they mope and cry about it and one even said something along the lines of "you are doing this because you find me unattractive, aren't you?"
A more confident man who knows I find him attractive is just more respectful of my space. Men who are willing to wait are better
[deleted] 7y ago
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Landry86 7y ago
I'm sure an emotionally stable, quality female with a few sexual partners is more desirable than a virgin who is psycho
[deleted] 7y ago
I'm not actually wondering if men love women for their virginty. I'm 40, married, 3 kids and a granddaughter. I'm trying to draw from women what they believe they are getting from it.
So far, all I've gotten in response is what men like lol. "respect"
teaandtalk 7y ago
If it was mod removed, I'm pretty grumpy. I thought it was a well written post with a valid point (namely that virginity itself isn't the big deal, but it implies a lot of other things about a woman that are highly desirable). The only rules I saw being broken were the 'man here' bits, which can be removed easily.
[deleted] 7y ago
I don't know the reasons, i just know that mod removed posts say removed and user removed posts say deleted.
VigilantRedRooster 7y ago
The post generated reports, and mansplaining in the comments. It was removed pending mod discussion but OP deleted it making reinstatement a moot point.
It's a worthwhile topic to discuss, so I'm glad the topic is back under more auspicious circumstances.
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[deleted] 7y ago
you're killing me lol. I appreciate your comments in this discussion :)
akanachan 7y ago
^(Disclaimer: Redpill men turn me off, but I'm here because I find posts here very relevant to maintaining healthy LTRs.)
I was a stereotypical "catholic virgin" until my mid 20s. I kept my vaginal virginity until I was engaged, and pretty sure I wanted to marry the guy, before giving it up to him. The relationship fell apart when I realized we were very incompatible in bed lol
As for the benefits, the biggest benefit for me is:
I don't ever want to be a mother, because I know I'm not able to raise a child properly (I grew up only knowing abuse, so I only have very vague idea of what "good parenting" is, and most of it is from movies, which is not a good source at all lol).
I've also been careful about STDs and STIs, and managed to avoid them. Educating yourself about proper protection is a lot more important than learning how to be good in bed, imo.
[deleted] 7y ago
I waited eight months to have sex with my fiancé, because I was getting the Gardasil shot. He had been with many other women and knew he had HPV, so we decided it was important for me to get the vaccine, off label (at 27,) and wait six months to have sex. I had only had one partner before him.
The benefits of this decision were huge. While we did engage in some sexual activities, we had to spend our time getting to know each other. By the time we did have sex, it'd been six years since I'd been with my only previous partner and two years since he'd been with anyone. While I wouldn't claim it was physically mind-blowing for either of us, there was a real emotional connection. We'd truly fallen in love without sex and we'd just started discussing marriage as a hypothetical. I felt secure in our relationship, so I wasn't tempted to play games. On that note, I could also do anything with him, sexually, that I had ever wanted to try, with no risk of feeling degraded. How could I feel degraded, when I knew he loved me? Additionally, when I started to have physical problems from my birth control, I could talk to him about it, without feeling embarrassed, because we'd already reached that point in our relationship.
If things had been different, if I'd had the shot at 24, we'd have had sex earlier in our relationship, probably at two or three months. I'm not sure how I would've handled that emotionally. I felt no obligation, at any point, to stay with my fiancé, because he'd added to my number and I think that might've been an issue, otherwise.
[deleted] 7y ago
Thank you for your response, for talking about what you felt was rewarding and why. Makes sense and also I'm glad you had such a positive experience!
[deleted] 7y ago
I waited until marriage. It was a religious thing, not a RP thing.
Benefits- -absolute exhilaration with finally having sex with my husband! I can't even describe the feeling of joy and peace and giddiness that was going to our hotel room after our wedding :) -a feeling being totally loved and adored my my husband...of worthiness...essentially that I was so special to my husband that he waited five years until our wedding night -no feelings of guilt, shame, or regret about past partners -a knowledge that we were and will always be each other's only partner forever -we learned together how to have good sex (and looking back when sex wasn't as great as it is now, we didn't know any better at the time!) -a feeling of total openness and trust And vulnerability. Sex is a gift of oneself to each other and always has been -comfort and security with each other...I trust him 100% to be faithful and he does with me. there is obviously more to it than just having waited till marriage, but I do think the ability to sacrifice sex for five years definitely speaks to one's faithfulness as a spouse -no worries of STDs -sex adds to our relationship and helps us connect on a deep level but it is hardly the focus of our relationship which I think is very important especially considering there are times like in the throes of morning sickness or after childbirth where you can't have sex so you must know how to connect without it.
It's hard to know 100% what the benefits are, since I don't know anything else and haven't really compared myself with others who have had multiple sexual partners. It's mostly beneficial for our relationship, feeling-wise...than anything concrete or measurable I would say. But I have no regrets about waiting. I am so glad we did.
radioactivities9 7y ago
A few experiences here to illustrate my opinion...
There's a time waiting worked out terrible for me, as it was because it was not so much deliberate, but with a man doing the snake-in-the-grass ''be friends'' first thing. I was never really attracted to him and capitulated out of familiarity and some sub-par built-up attraction. We weren't sexually compatible. I didn't respect that he never was overt with his intentions. It annoys me thinking about it.
On the third date with the man I'm with, I/he suggested just going to his place. After dinner we were making out and I went to give him some head. I didn't wait for him to take off my clothes and escalate things. Then I got the best head ever in return and all the time now. Some men appreciate not having to do all 'the work' of physical seduction, it's true, and it doesn't mean they are just looking for sex. ''Waiting'' can be a cliche under some circumstances.
'Waiting' is just disingenuous for my personality and experience and I like that he's happy how it all played out too. Would be the wrong man for me if he thought less of me for my genuine attraction and eagerness for him.
Granted, my social experiences and life have left me with little naivete and a keen perception, so I don't need to wait to have sex as a tool for vetting. And that latter part is important. Did I have that ability in my early 20's? Hell no!
A woman needs to know herself well to know what her limits and boundaries are. Just following 'the rules' may not work out well. Also ask herself if she is a genuine good judge of character, intentions, or not.
tempintheeastbay 7y ago
I've never really 'waited' very long. So flip side is, there are more than a few choices I really, really regret, that squick me out just remembering they happened :( Ladies, don't be me! Don't sleep with a guy just because you fear it'd be awkward if you didn't!
RubyWooToo 7y ago
Having experienced the pitfalls and benefits of waiting vs. not waiting, here's my pros and cons list:
Pros:
Cons:
isabeavis 7y ago
Coming from a non-religious upbringing (so, not having the religious imperative to wait for marriage), and having a circle of liberal, like-minded, atheist friends - this would also be my pro & con list.
In my experience, I found having sex too soon really did create a false sense of attachment to someone I might not have dated more than 4-5 times otherwise. Literally years wasted in relationships that probably would not have happened if sex had not created that bond and weird sense of obligation (these are my own issues, obviously).
RubyWooToo 7y ago
Exactly this! It really is amazing what you're willing to overlook or put up after having sex with someone, especially when the sex is really good.
Although I am religious, when I eventually have kids, my argument for abstaining from sex (or at least being selective about who they sleep with it) is going to be almost entirely based on this practical argument.
In fact, it seems a lot of Biblical prohibitions turn out to be based practical considerations anyway. Like eating meat and dairy together was probably a really bad idea in the days before refrigeration and pasteurization.
isabeavis 7y ago
I have two daughters and this is absolutely going to be how I frame my 'you should wait' talk. I mean, I can only frame it in a 'this was my experience' way, and hopefully my DH and I provide a solid family background so that they don't seek validation and love through sex.
Even when it's not, it creates an intimacy that can misleads other emotions.
[deleted] 7y ago
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[deleted] 7y ago
Excellent point, i think that makes perfect sense. I think this might be the key to my question, thank you!
RedDetergent 7y ago
Same here! Almost the exact same story, only my ex boyfriend was my first. We only waited for a month, but saw each other almost every day. After that I was so madly in love that I even stood by his side trough everything, he did not deserve that. He also cheated on my, became very aggressive and much more...
merlinsmoon 7y ago
It's something you should do for yourself. If you want to wait, or not wait, do that. Because you're never going to be able to gauge how a man feels about it. Plenty "can respect that" and plenty don't really care if you wait or not. Some will leave right away, some will wait til you do it and then still leave anyway because it becomes a "thing" for them, and some ONS will turn into meaningful, long-lasting relationships. What benefits me is knowing exactly what I want and doing THAT. So even if it doesn't turn out the way I want, I know I did what I wanted in the end.
LifeHasLag 7y ago
I'm glad this is becoming a topic of interest :)
jack_hammarred 7y ago
I'm kind of unsure that answering is going to be valuable, it seems there might be something you are wanting or expecting to hear or not hear but if it helps here is my experience.
Regarding previous partners who I didn't have intercourse with, I enjoyed feeling in control of myself and my decisions. Of course you can have this regardless... but I enjoyed determining boundaries and sticking to them. I enjoyed the clear, explicit discussions beforehand and leaving those men satisfied but still intrigued. I enjoyed maintaining some mystery. It allowed me to feel just vulnerable enough, feminine, and empowered because of that.
When we broke up, I enjoyed not having a sex highlight reel starring men who weren't accessible anymore and instead only lamented the loss of good cuddling and oral, as well as the fun of spending time together. I didn't have sex before my current boyfriend, but before him I sampled the cock carousel for the sake of adventure. And because I was absurdly horny, had access, and did not want to focus on anything but my family, goals, and mental health. Because of all that I knew sex wasn't going to be an indulgence. I loved engaging in sexual activities without the regrets that can come from vulnerability with someone you wouldn't want such vulnerability with. I love intimacy, I find my quality of life drastically affected by the presence or lack of it, and I knew this before I ever got naked and physical with anyone. I didn't want to give myself a taste of the expensive champagne if I couldn't have it regularly, so to speak.
Then, I met Man. I enjoyed how safe he made me feel as he taught me things I had no concept of. I enjoyed his pride as he taught me, and his humility when I learned. I couldn't have experienced these things this way if I would've been boning before I met him, and the relationship wouldn't have had the trust, faith, and love that made this so special if we would've just gotten right into it.
I'm thankful I got experience before him. It was good for my confidence. It was fun. It gave me good days. It helped me learn about lots of things. None of those experiences compare to what I can have now, and it's all long since been booted out of the highlight reel for much better material, but I don't wonder. It's like those experiences helped me head off some hypergamy before it happened. I don't wonder if sex (or relationships) could be better... it was good with Man and I to start and it gets better every time.
I didn't feel special about giving Man my virginity. The act was special, and loving him so much I wanted to give it to him was special, but I didn't feel changed or different after the first round or the second round. But years later, I know it brings us closer long term and I love how close we feel during/after each session. Prizing virginity itself I think is kind of stupid IMO. I don't prize ignorance or naïveté, but there is some merit in delaying an experience until you're ready for it if you think that will make the experience better. I think there are things that prolonged virginity fosters that can be good based on my own experience and others experiences, but it depends on so many factors I don't think there is valuable, concrete advice for anyone.
[deleted] 7y ago
The only answers I didn't want to hear were from men who wanted to explain it to death with words that only described what men get as a benefit. I appreciate you taking the time to write this out, thank you. I like that you recognize that experience is a value here, that it's not so black and white as either virginal 'character' or absolute whoreness :)~
Agree, there is no single answer for everyone. Thank you for recognizing that too.
jack_hammarred 7y ago
Thank you for the thoughtful reply :)
I get frustrated with that "either of two extremes mentality," I see it a lot in the red pill type subs. Clock this shade: It makes people sound pious, bitter, and sometimes both. Anything that makes a reasonable, responsible person afraid of their sexuality is rude. I'm upset for people who grow up being told that sex is the bad kind of dirty. Sex is AWESOME. Do it, just follow laws and stuff. While some of these people could surely be characterized by some immaturity, I feel deeply for the girls who come here feeling guilty about having had a sexual encounter and think they're now unmarriagable.
I guess I didn't add that I held onto mine because societal and my mom's commentary made me fear the prospect of regret... I felt a vague sense of futility with that... knowing that ending up with a shredded v-card would be the least of my regrets if I regretted my choice to have sex. Fallout from a poor character or intention judgement, STD, no safety net for a possible baby, sabotaged friendship, those real regrets make the lost virgin status a laughable thing to lament. I think people's comments about virginity's usefulness to further support good vetting are really valid. For me, sex can create a lot of feelings and I'm glad I waited until I had more years of experiencing emotions... I can't be alone in that.
radioactivities9 7y ago
Not alone. I have held out on cooking for men. Cooked more for this one in a week than I did for my ex in years. That means much more to me. Would it have been better if my cooking skills were none and that I was so self-conscious of it as to save some awkward fumbling through food deeds for three months into the relationship? :D He's sure happy. Funny that (sometimes irrational) fear of over-investing applies to more areas than sex, even more strongly.
I found that my experience has me better able to bond and be intimate through sex, not the opposite.
[deleted] 7y ago
a key that opens every lock is high value.
a lock that opens from every key is worthless.
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[deleted] 7y ago
Yeah, I've read this a number of times on the men's subreddit. It sounds smart but it doesn't actually say much.
AlphaWeaboo 7y ago
Well then how about this, just like a girl wants to have the man every woman wants (read pasive dread) because the fact that he chose her for the ltr makes her feel a special snowflake, a man wants the virgin (who obviously is hot and had chances) because that makes him feel like the special snowflake.
[deleted] 7y ago
He looks at the lake
[deleted] 7y ago
You assume the virginity and hotness are hand in hand? Certainly not. Hotness is more rare than that and so is virginity itself. So, while I get why you guys fantasize about this scenario, I don't believe you are actually seeing it or having it.
Also, this post was a question for women who value virginity or abstinence. It wasn't for every new RP guy to come in and repeat some fantasy rules. We already know what you want, no need to defend it in this thread.
Willow-girl 7y ago
This presumes that women are like locks, but are they really? Hmm ...
[deleted] 7y ago
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Willow-girl 7y ago
I agree with some of the things I read here, and disagree with others.
[deleted] 7y ago
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Willow-girl 7y ago
Mainly that men and women are different and there's no sense in pretending otherwise. Most women do want to settle down and raise a family by the time they hit their late 20's to early 30's (although RP frames this in a negative way; I see it more as a natural unfolding of the life cycle). Alphas are real. Betas are real, too. Most women really do want a strong, capable partner who has his shit together, not a wimpy schlub. And hypergamy is real. Fellas, beware! lol
I could go on, but you get the idea.
tempintheeastbay 7y ago
Yeah why are women the lock? What if men are the lock? I feel like this is like saying, 2+2=4, but 4-2=2.... sounds profound but not
AlphaWeaboo 7y ago
I'm curious, what do you mean?
Willow-girl 7y ago
This illustration compares women to locks, but are they really? Is a woman hiding some valuable treasure in her cooch that will be stolen if she 'unlocks' it for too many men? lol
artsyluna 7y ago
Hey, speak for yourself. I keep a lot of valuable things in here. Keys to a new car, plane tickets to Hawaii, you never know what you'll find.
Willow-girl 7y ago
I've heard they're also useful for smuggling heroin. :-)
[deleted] 7y ago
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Willow-girl 7y ago
Sure have!