Hi Red Pill Ladies,
This is a topic I have been chewing on for quite some time and am curious as to what you all think.
For those of you working full time with careers, are there any of you who make more than your significant other?
I am in a career which I love, which is sure to yield a high income and may surpass my significant others within the next year. I do my best to remain yielding and let him know that he is number 1, but within my career, I am the "Strong female" type. I negotiate large contracts for a living, so clients who hire me and pay me dont want the "demure and yielding" type....but I want to be that for my significant other and I want that sort of relationship.
It's almost as if I play two roles. Not that I am "Acting" or "lying" in either role, as both of them are me. Do any of you others experience anything like this? Having to be one thing in your career, and something different for your significant other?
More specifically, heres the real question:
For those of you working full time with an income at or above your significant others, how do you manage this? Does he manage the finances 100%? Does he know how much you make? How do you maintain your yielding nature, while being the "bread winner"?
This is something I am mentally wrestling with. So far, we are not married and do not share finances. He does very well for himself, and will continue to do so, but so will I. Quitting my job or "playing small" is not an option, as I love what I do. I will eventually step away from my career to have children and raise them, but for now this is what my career is and I dont want to potentially undermine him.
He brings it up from time to time about how we can be a "power couple" but I dont necessarily want that. I do want to earn a living and contribute financially, but I want him to be the bread winner and the one in charge of finances. So far, since we dont share finances, I make sure to let him know I respect his decisions and choices with money and dont make any big / irresponsible purchases without him. In fact, he was there every step of the way when I got a car and I made it his final call, instead of mine.
I am doing my best to keep the power on his side when it comes to finances and income, as I really want to be a great mother and wife some day, but it is looking inevitable that my income will match or surpass his.
How does one side-step or work with this? How does one take this and make it empowering for their man? I dont want to come across as an "independent - I dont need a man" type of woman...but I'm also not one to put in only half the work for half the results or income.
Thoughts?
EDIT: Great Info here. Thanks all! I think the biggest take-away for me is that use TRP as a guideline to work with my SO. Meaning, if my SO is fine with an income gap, it's fine with me. I am relatively new to TRP and sometimes confuse what could be seen as "right" or "Wrong" in a relationship....and yeah, then over think things when my SO and I are the only ones who can determine right and wrong in our relationships :) Thanks again for the great insight! Cool to see so many other hard working, financially secure yet feminine and lovely women here! Heres to having "it all!" ;)
wendy-fly 10y ago
I just wanted to chime in even though this is an old thread. My husband is a full-time student and sometimes works and sometimes doesn't, depending on internships/school load/etc. I work full-time so 90% of our household needs are paid for by me. This is a different situation because we know it's temporary (he graduates this summer!) but for our entire relationship thus far I have made more money than him. He will make more money than me once he starts working in his field of study.
I really think we make things too complicated. In the end it kind of boils down to 'be kind, generous, and grateful'. There is no one way to be a RPW, it is what works for your husband and for you. There are outlines, like the woman should cook and do the majority of the indoor type housework but that's just the middle 70% of the bell curve. All of us are an outlier in something. I can't stand negging but apparently it's an effective technique for most women. Just because I don't like it/won't stand for it/am completely turned off by it doesn't undermine that, as a rule, it works for the majority of people out there. So just because you make more than your husband and that often leads to problems, doesn't mean a thing for your marriage. You are not a statistic. As long as your husband doesn't feel emasculated, and you don't feel he is less masculine or worthy because you make more money, then it isn't a problem. If you or he begin to feel that way, then take a close look at things. Continue to allow him to lead your family.
So stay soft. Stay feminine. Trust your husband when he says it's a nonissue. Cultivate gratitude for your marriage and be kind even when you are in a bad mood or if he did something "wrong", and be generous with your heart and your love. If you do all of that I believe you will be just fine.
lostatsea93 10y ago
I do understand, and its not as if I personally agree or disagree. Obviously, me potentially making more than my SO doesn't really bother me a whole lot. I dont want the added responsibility of being head of house hold of being the sole bread winner, but thats neither here nor there.
What confuses me, especially about a lot of the replies in this thread, is that to be a RPW mainly depends on what is okay between me and my significant other, and has less to do with a set of guidelines, standards, rules, and...Gasp statistics.
In fact, the fact that there ARE statistics and more or less proven methods for the way healthy, long lasting biological relationships should function is the main reason I switched over from being an avid reader of r/relationships to r/redpillwomen. It hits home for me much more here and I feel like there are a lot less excuses here than there are on r/relationships.
I am slightly disappointed because I feel like a lot of the feedback I have received on this thread is mostly "whatever works between you and your man". Which, true, I agree with. But what is so RP about that approach? I mean, aren't there a world of blue pillars out there who would say the same thing? Aren't we here to monitor and work within a set of standards? Does that mean if it works easier for my S.O. to be a stay at home dad, cooking and cleaning, while I make the money, that its okay? Because everything else about human biology and desire says that although that may be practical and "work" for now, it won't "work" long term because gender roles get confused and attraction and desire are lost in "whatever works for most couples" when really, its not working at all.
Im not speaking personally about my relationship, your relationship or any of the above ladies experiences....
I am more or less just voicing some disappointment for the whole "whatever works for you" mentality that I got in this thread, when TRP is a big pill to swallow for most of us, and at one point or another probably wouldn't "work" so well...But its for the best, and its for the better of all of us long- term, right?
Someone above highlighted a statistic that females aren't attracted to males that dont make more money than them. Or something to that effect. I dont know, I'm paraphrasing.
Are we all ignoring a potential statistic (if its true) because its convenient for us and our relationship? If so, what other sorts of statistics are okay to ignore, for the convenience of our relationship, while still labeling them RP?
wendy-fly 10y ago
The reason you got the 'do what works for you and your man' is because your man has no problem with the situation. If he was unhappy, you'd get a different answer. I'm now wondering if it does bother you more than you were letting on. If you making more money than your man is a deal breaker for you, then you have some tough choices to make. You are either going to have to make less money or break up with him and attempt to find a higher earner.
Ask your husband what he wants you to do and then do it. That's the most RP thing you could do in this situation. If he wants you to downgrade your career or if he wants you to keep moving upwards, do it.
I explained the bell curve for this reason, yes, in general the man making less money than the woman decreases attraction and happiness in the relationship. If you believe you are in that majority and it cannot be compensated for in another way, then again, you have that choice to make. A past mod here was discussing her relationship once and revealed that her husband didn't work at all, that she was the only breadwinner in the family, but he was so masculine and so dominate that she didn't need him to have an income. That absolutely wouldn't work for me. I need my man to have an income and preferably, an income greater than my own. It does excite me that he will be making more money than I do, for many reasons. It lessens the pressure on me but it also makes me feel like I made a good catch in a husband. If he had no income with no plans to obtain an income, that just isn't okay with me. However, this worked for her relationship.
I have heard many stories of high powered women wanting RP relationships. They want to be submissive at home because always being in control at work is exhausting. Their husbands/SOs have to be highly dominate men to make this dynamic work and the wives need to active work on being soft and feminine at home. Make the big bucks but come home and treat him like a king and he needs to act like a king. If you can't do that or he can't do that, then you have some hard choices to make.
lostatsea93 10y ago
Again, this isn't about me personally, as my spouse still makes more money than me right now. Whether it bothers me later or not is a bridge I have yet to cross.
wendy-fly 10y ago
What do you think an appropriate RP response would be or what did you imagine we'd say?
lostatsea93 10y ago
I guess my perception of an RP relationship is male dominated, female yielding. Which is true. I was really surprised to find out how many females make more money than their significant others. My personal perception is that there would be some sort of power struggle with a female bread winner. I guess I get that from years of my mom making most of the money and my dad literally using the words that she basically "cut his balls off", but a lot of that comes with the entitled attitude that goes along with it.
I guess I was just really surprised at how many females make more money than their RP significant others....and if thats the case, I am not surprised that all of the finically dominating females say that it works for their relationship and it doesn't seem to be an issue. But I would be really curious to hear from the men in that type of relationship dynamic.
wendy-fly 10y ago
Absolutely. Maybe try a post on repill_couples or asktrp. My understand is though that it is a problem for the women, not the men. It's the women who lose attraction. Plus, like I said, for us it is temporary, so maybe that's why I'm fine with it now.
KyfhoMyoba 10y ago
Several commenters have referred to their own unique situation and made the point that their husbands/SOs don't mind that the female makes a lot more than they do.
NOT THE POINT!
How the man feelz is completely irrelevant to AF/BB. Let me further explain. Once a (generic) woman has BB locked down - FROM WHATEVER SOURCE (could be man, could be herself) - her limbic system returns her focus of attention to acquiring the alpha seed. Now as RP women, we hope that y'all have that sorted - that you're already with an alpha of some degree. My point is that if you are not already with an alpha, AND you make 50% or more than he does, your hardwired hypergamy will find him to be useless, and will seek to branch swing, because YOU have the BB covered by yourself (or so your limbic system is 'telling' you). IOW, if he's not beta bux (because you are by making much more than he does), he'd better bring something to the table, and the only other thing is alpha.
KyfhoMyoba 10y ago
Folks, let's look at the percentages. When a woman makes 60% or more of the household income, i.e., when her income is half again as large as his, divorce is an 80% probability. Why is this, and how can we mitigate against this trend? AF/BB tells us that when a woman has her provisioning locked in, she seeks again the AF carousel. If her provisioning source is herself, she has no need of BB, and is free to obtain DNA from all that are willing to give it, and hypergamy tells us that it will be from someone usually about 2 or more points higher on the SMV scale.
If you're making 50% more than your husband, he'd better alpha up, 'cause you have no need of his BB. Whether your cerebral cortex agrees with this or not, your limbic system sure does.
[deleted] 10y ago
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KyfhoMyoba 10y ago
Did you skip over the "alpha up" part? Yes, I understand that y'all are RP women, and as RP women y'all have selected RP men that are consciously improving their alpha (and hopefully beta as well) traits/characteristics/behaviors. I am pointing out why income disparity favoring the wife results in divorce 80% of the time. If you've got yourself an alpha, great - the disparity probably won't make much difference. If you don't, well, beware.
And if you think I'm a troll (LOL) you should check my posting history.
ThorsdaySaturnday 10y ago
My SO and I are happily married, have separate bank accounts, and are co-signers on the mortgage for the house. I make about double my husband's income, but that has never been an issue between us, we even joke about him being the gold-digger.
It works because I maintain my feminine traits and qualities, and always defer to him in our daily life. Thankfully he's secure in himself that he doesn't feel threatened by the fact that I earn more than him. I wouldn't make a big deal out of it, it seems that your man doesn't find it to be an issue, either. The only time that the topic of money comes up is when we have to make a big purchase or plan a trip, which is not often.
neveragoodtime 10y ago
Over on TRP men are always coming up with shorthand rules. Here are a few I think RPW would agree with:
1) always choose loyalty over hypergamy. You chose your man, so even if your income surpasses him, when you think you could get a man who makes more or has more power, that's hypergamy.
2) a wife and mother is the most rewarding career a woman could ever have. You seem to already know this, but some women insist that corporate slavery is somehow better than spending all day with people who love and depend on you.
3) find a man who dominates you the way you want to be dominated. Maybe you don't need to be dominated financially, it doesn't matter to you how much your man makes, and you'll have no problems saying goodbye to that salary to stay home with your child. Maybe he dominates you socially, maybe at planning exciting events, or keeping your car running. That is your source of respect for your man which will overcome any financial shortcomings.
On another note, men are pack animals, like horses or oxen. They're valuable for the work they put in. Women are like sheep or chickens, and are valuable for the fruits they bare. Handing over your finances to him ( responsibly ) makes him feel more valuable for the responsibility. If he can't handle that, or you don't trust him to, then that's a sign of other problems in the relationship. So don't be afraid to give him responsibility, but be willing to cook a nice meal in return.
mouse_haus 10y ago
How does your SO feel about the situation? From what you wrote about his joking about being a power couple, it sounds like he's proud of you and not bothered.
I don't see an inherent contradiction in being successful at work while being yielding at home. There were times in the past when I made more than my (now) husband. We got married a few months ago and combined our finances. Now there's no distinction between what's "mine" vs. "his," and any residual stress about it seems to be gone.
foodnettwerk 10y ago
Not exactly what you're looking for, but hopefully this will give you some confidence! My parents have been happily married for 25 years and are probably the best couple I have ever met.
My mother earns a significant amount more than my father does - although not an absurd amount more as they are both physicians and she is just in a more lucrative speciality than he is. In addition to bringing home the bacon, she also cooks it! Despite working ~60 hours a week she prepared family dinners almost every night while I was growing up.
She is a woman who actually "has it all" - a loving husband, two well-adjusted children, & a prosperous career. My favorite story of hers is how she had to stop & breastfeed me in the middle of an exam at Yale medical school - that makes her superwoman to me.
I'm not saying it's easy, but it is definitely possible to balance having a successful career with a successful relationship and a successful family. What you need to do is (happily) fulfill spousal/maternal responsibilities in addition to occupational responsibilities. You can work a beyond-full-time job and still have time to cook dinner, be a boy scout den mother, attend softball games, maintain a great sexual relationship with your partner, etc. It's hard fucking work, but if my mother can do all these things, I trust you're up to the task.
vintagegirlgame 10y ago
Wow I think my mother would be envious of yours. She and my father are both physicians as well. But she left her residency to nurse me (I refused to take the bottle and she refused to let someone else raise me). 4 kids and many years later, she tried to restart her career but had a lot of challenges. Ended up divorcing my dad and alienating herself from most of her family. Now she's struggling to rebuild a medical career but feels stunted and resentful of the "have it all" expectations she grew up with. It saddens me that, in chasing "it all" she ended up with hardly anything... her kids hardly talk to her, her new marriage is abusive, and while she's a great doctor she has no business savvy.
How did your mother seemed to beat the odds? How does she find balance between career, marriage and children? How does she prioritize each?
foodnettwerk 10y ago
For starters, we did have a nanny living with us while I was growing up, which I know is not something every family wants or is able to afford. We needed someone in the house because being doctors they could both be called out in the middle of the night & you just can't leave small children to fend for themselves. However, neither of them treated the nanny as an opportunity to stop being a parent; I certainly don't feel like I was "raised" by any of the nannies & harbor no resentment towards my parents. They both made huge efforts to always be there for reading bedtime stories, eating family dinners, attending sporting events & school plays. I'm sure it was exhausting but I know they feel it was worth the sacrifices.
I will also add that until we moved out the house for college my mothers social life was a bit lacking. She is naturally a very shy person & with working a demanding job & raising a family she never had much time or energy to put into social activitiesl. But I n the past few years she's grown her social circle & had a lot more time to spend with friends. It was something she had to compromise on for a long time but I'm confident she feels it was worth it.
WhimsicalWonderland 10y ago
Okay your mom is the baddest chick I know now.... Amazing plus points to her.
My mom is also the breadwinner of our family and also is does majority of the house chores when I was young (I picked up most of these roles once I reached middle school). I agree that it wasn't easy... my mom was extremely stressed for a while and actually converted to Christianity (she was Buddhist before, we're Chinese and she was raised that way), which really helped her.
lostatsea93 10y ago
So interesting! This year I actively started going back to church every sunday. Mostly for my sanity and to believe that there is something greater above myself that "has control of things" But also because I want to raise my family / children in that way in the future.
Sometimes life turns us up side down to get us right back on the right path!
runhard_runfast 10y ago
"Sometimes life turns us up side down to get us right back on the right path!"
I can sure agree with that sentiment!
DreamBoatGuy25 10y ago
It sounds like you're more concerned about it being an issue than he is, which is course, to be expected and competely in line with RP theory. Giving him control of the finances would probably help put you in a more RPW frame of mind.
lostatsea93 10y ago
Thanks! As of now, we dont share finances. He mentioned how his dad gives his mom an "allowance" every month for spending, and he manages the funds. She also makes a ton of money, so its nice to see strong women still wanting to surrender to their men, even though society would say we dont have to. I like it!
alisonstone 10y ago
I don't think having a career is the problem, but the toxic attitude and sense of superiority that women get when they have a better career that causes problems. Most women, including RPW, have to work.
The difference is that if the woman is with a guy who makes more than her, she is suddenly willing to cook, do her share of the chores, and act feminine. But if she is with a guy who makes less than her, then suddenly she becomes lazy and dumps all the chores on him and decides that her job is "too hard and stressful", so she has no time to exercise or look pretty. The difference between the guy who makes more than her and the guy who makes less than her can be very little. On an after-tax basis, it might even be negligible to their financial situation. But I still see women who change their behavior completely when they date someone who makes slightly more than them vs slightly less (basically a negligible financial difference).
I have no idea why that is the case. Maybe it is innate hypergamy. Maybe women just don't deal with the pressure of being "bread winner" because they feel like they are carrying a huge responsibility. Or maybe it's just their friends nagging them and influencing their psychology. But whatever the reason, you have to realize that your finances are not that important if both of you have high income. Your life won't actually change much if you were to make a little less or if he were to make a little more. You still have to do your job outside of your career too. Making more doesn't allow a man or a woman to slack on that. You have to always keep that separate.
BronzeRat 10y ago
From what you've said about your SO's jokes etc., it sounds like he's happy enough with the situation. As long as you're sure this really is the case (does he always communicate his opinions openly? Have you ever given him reason to feel he can't?) then there isn't a big problem. If I understand correctly, when in a LTR it's best not to think 'what is the RPW thing to do?' But instead 'what does my SO want/need from me?' It doesn't matter if you aren't doing the typical RP thing, as long as your SO is happy and you are allowing him to take the lead in the relationship and are meeting his needs. Use the latter question if you cant answer the first, are new to RPW and have previously caused your man not to discuss, or to feel bad about, his wants and needs or for things that are about your own personal development and don't really affect him too much.
I really wouldn't worry about being strong at work and demure at home, lots of people have a work persona, we all act differently in different situations. Just make sure you leave it at the office! (I'm terrible at this so need to avoid high pressure, masculine work, but I know lots of people of both genders who do this successfully every day.)
lostatsea93 10y ago
Thanks! I noticed I was terrible about leaving it at the office, too. I started having to time block my schedule. At a certain time every day, I go home and do yoga, do some cooking, light some candles and have a strict "no emails / phone calls" rule once I check out of work for the day. That has helped a little bit.
Bakerofpie 10y ago
EXACTLY. This needs to be highlighted and in bold. We can learn to have better attitudes here but when it comes to specifics if anything our SOs say or request contradicts something seen here, listen to your SO over an Internet forum. There is a lot to be learned here but it's important that we don't forget why we are doing this. It is for the betterment of our relationships, not to become the perfect generic RPW model instead of appealing to your SO specifically.
BronzeRat 10y ago
It took me months to get this; my SO would get annoyed because he tells me exactly what he likes and expects and I was resisting for random, arbitrary reasons which I didn't even explain. I kept thinking, 'why can't he see I'm being the woman that he wants?' instead of listening to what he actually wanted. I would go along with his requests but I would resist initially and then worry that he was making me a bad woman, rather than being genuinely supportive and happy. I actually was concerned that he wasn't behaving as a captain because although he was stating what he wanted and setting expectations for me ('why have you done X, I prefer Y.' Or 'please do Z today') they weren't the wants/expectations I thought they should be. What a stupid attitude I had. I was thinking I knew better than he did, which is actually not RPW at all and definitely not deferring to my SO. Definitely been my single biggest stumbling block and lesson with RPW!
lostatsea93 10y ago
Yeah, I dont know why I never really got this until now, but that makes sense. I strive a lot for personal development and to be the best I can be...but sometimes I forget to keep our relationship number 1 (which includes his wants / needs / preferences) over an internet forum or check list of "how I should be"
Bakerofpie 10y ago
I relate to this completely! He finally asked me to stay off of here for awhile to "reset" because I was making priorities he didn't care about and overdoing it in some areas so I had less time and energy for the areas he really wanted me to focus on. It's just something I have to keep in mind now.
Bakerofpie 10y ago
I think that almost everyone acts differently at work than they do at home. That's just a completely normal part of life and there are several actresses in the spotlight who make millions but still prefer their husbands to be in charge. It's not really a contradiction or paradox at all.
I have a disability and can no longer work full time so my husband will be the great bulk of our income, but this will be a big change. Recently he had no income at all, and for the first maybe two years we were together he made a third of what I did. For me it was and is almost easier to be yielding toward him when I have a lot of work responsibilities. I would get so exhausted from work and from making decisions all day that when I got home I had no energy to fight him on anything and looked forward to not being in charge of anything.
I have always handled the finances and will probably continue to do so even with him making more money, but that hasn't caused any power struggles. He still makes the final call and big decisions, but at any given time he usually has no idea how much money is in our bank account. Before he buys something large he will ask how much we have in the account, I tell him whether it will need to wait until next paycheck, but I know he's going to buy whatever he thinks is best so even though I'm informing him about our finances I'm not dictating to him about them. I know you would rather your SO take over finances, but I'm just illustrating that even that isn't a necessary part of a Captain/XO relationship. If I can be in charge of finances but my husband is still "in charge" of me, you can certainly be a yielding wife and show deference even when making more money.
Actually being stressed and having to put on the tough and together attitude at work has helped my relationship in some ways. When I would come home exhausted he would do things that normally really irritated me/put me in a bad mood/made me short with him, but I was just too tired to care at all, and now even when I'm not exhausted I've discovered that when I had a "no problem" attitude there really were no problems, and my former irritable and high strung personality has started to improve.
lostatsea93 10y ago
Ha! I completely agree - The more exhausted I am from dealing with people at work, the more I just want to enjoy our time together. I guess that is a plus!
WhimsicalWonderland 10y ago
I have been making more than my SO for 2 years until the past week actually (he got a significant promotion at his job and makes almost twice as much as I do now), but prior to that, I have made about $10k more per year.
He is naturally alpha and me making more has never been a problem between us, especially since we knew that he will probably eventually make more. We met when I was 15 and he was 17 (been together for 9 years), so we always knew each other's finances from the beginning. We always knew how much we made at different points in life and knew how much we had saved. He is not as good as organization as I am, so I am usually in charge of budgeting. However, we mutually make big financial decisions together and talk it through (currently looking to buy a house). As far as planning trips, I am always the one who breaks down finances and purchases flights/hotels, etc. I think it really just depends on which one of you in the relationship is good at what. Your SO can still be Captain, but if you are better at a task, why not pick it up?
While I do think that I would like my SO to always be the one who makes more, that doesn't necessarily mean he cannot take a leadership role. Making important decisions and having him pull weight and responsibility is what puts him there. It doesn't seem like your SO has a problem with it, but have you voiced what you wanted? Remember, communication is the most important thing in any relationship, red pill or not.
LifterofThings 10y ago
I think you're overthinking this. Your ambition is probably something that drew your SO to you, if he's having power couple visions of the future. My SO has expressed similar feelings to me-- my ambition was part of the reason he picked me as an LTR prospect.
That being said, he'll never supplicate to me no matter how much money I make, and he'll be out the door if I ever get patronizing with him.
I think this is only natural-- your expectations of the gen pop and your expectations of your spouse are going to be different.
lostatsea93 10y ago
True, he does always comment on my ambition and lack of wanting to "settle for less". I sometimes have to be careful not to send out the message that "he isn't enough", though. I have been guilty of being a "go getter" and always wanting the best of the best. Not necessarily materialistic things, but I have high standards for myself and everyone else. If anything, TRP has let me relax some of those rigid standards, accept him for more of what he is, and love him unconditionally, instead of seeing him like everything else in my life that needs to operate highly 100% of the time. That has been the biggest mental shift for me.
lostatsea93 10y ago
Update/Edit posted in main body! Thanks all!