TL;DR Currently my husband (29) and I (21) have our money separated and I’m in charge of bills. I want the end result to be joint money and husband in charge of bills and finances, but I don’t know how to get there.
Several months ago someone on rpw advised me to read The Surrendered Wife by Laura Doyle. So far it has proved invaluable; following her instructions is making me a better wife and all around a better person. For those who don't know, the book is about learning to give up all control of your husband and allow him to lead you. It's not about surrendering and submitting to him, but about surrendering control OF him. She STRONGLY advises that women surrender control of finances to their husbands. Even if he and you have an agreement that you take care of bills, even if he expressly asked you to take care of them because he hates doing them. She basically says to tell her husband you can't be in charge of the finances anymore because it's too stressful, put the checkbook on the counter, and then leave it there. No matter if he doesn't do anything about it, just leave the responsibility on his shoulders. She also advises having a joint bank account, in order to be vulnerable to your husband, and give him opportunity to please/impress you with his generosity.
In my particular situation, we have discussed getting a joint bank account for 8 months now, and intend to, just haven't gotten around to it. I think partially because it seemed like a huge step before we were married. Now that we are, it seems like the next logical step to me. But I feel it would seem nagging to even mention it again.
Now, I absolutely want to give him all control/responsibility of our money and finances, I just don’t know how to without seeming either selfish or controlling. We currently have a lot of debt, and it's been the source of numerous fights in the past. I know now that I shouldn’t have but I'd pressured him to start budgeting with me, which despite verbal agreement he was never ready to do. On my end, I’ve never had more than a few hundred of debt at a time, so suddenly having thousands of his over my head has been disconcerting, and I just want it gone asap. However, I failed to see his perspective. He just recovered from a life threatening disease, and has a good job and his own apt after over a year of living with family and having no job (while sick). He feels like he’s doing really well, and it really rubs him the wrong way when I start harping about debt and money and how bad our spending habits are. A few days ago he told me he’s made plans for paying off various debts, and we will both work as much as possible next month. He said he’s only going to do productive things in his free time (e.g. work on his side business) and we aren’t going to eat out anymore. I think having control of all our money would make what he’s trying to do much easier, and I know he will take care of me.
Though we both seem to want joined money, I sense that he feels like it would be unfair for him to have any say about what happens with the money I earn. Example: we are always short on money, so we both have to regularly dip into the jar of cash I earn waiting tables. Every time he takes money from the jar he feels like he needs to ask permission because it’s “my money” and he feels bad/guilty about it because it’s “my money”. I can see the man in him cringing every time, and I’ve tried to tell him that it’s both of ours, but he doesn’t see it that way.
Laura Doyle advises that women just say “I can’t take care of the bills anymore” and leave it at that, but if our finances aren’t already joined, it doesn’t seem that easy. My thought was to also hand him my jar of cash, and tell him I don’t want to be in charge of money at all, because I get too stressed out thinking about what we need to make that money do each month. I feel like getting anywhere close to broaching the subject of our debt would be like rubbing salt on a wound, and I don’t trust myself to do this without going there.
Any thoughts?
[deleted] 10y ago
When my husband and I were dating, he was a horrible impulse buyer. A thousand dollars a month on red bull, a doughnut, iced coffee, etc. I'm a saver, however I have the hardest time balancing a check book. He was banker for a long time but I was concerned about his impulse buying. We both got on the same page financially by reading and using Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace and it has been life changing. We have the same goals now and we have a budget for everything you can think of. I write the checks and send out the automatic payments, he balances the book. By us both having jobs to do in the finances it keeps us constantly talking about it which is a good thing and also responsible to one another.
needmorefat 10y ago
Laura Doyle has her opinion. In my view, if your husband expressly asks you to do the finances and you don't do them, you're just avoiding work. Who "wears the pants" and which particular activities symbolize "pants" is just a matter of psychology. The traditional practice of one of my cultures is for the man to hand his woman the paycheck and she takes care of it because the home and its workings are her responsibility as a wife and his work is done. Some cultures view finance as power and control which is masculine, but others view it as family resource allocation which is feminine. In my mind, for the stereotypes of gender I've somehow internalized, balancing a family budget is women's work. Women are detail oriented and more practical and have self control, and the person who cooks will know more about what the house needs. But that's just my psychology. Doyle is a Westerner, apparently sees it differently.
There's two relevant concepts for you.
1) Topping from the bottom: where the "submissive" person tells the "dominant" person exactly how to dominate her, thereby defeating the point
2) "Submissive doesn't mean lazy". Just because you're surrendering control over your life to someone doesn't mean you're surrendering the responsibility of day-to-day decisions about money. If you're going to give him the finances, you need up a job to match that labor loss.
I do, however, approve of one person and not two people doing finances. Fights about money are dumb. I'm not saying you shouldn't combine your income and hand it over, I'm just saying - be soft, where you meet natural resistance from him on something you yield.
[deleted] 10y ago
OK, my two cents: debt is scary if you don't see how to control it, and controlling is about having all the information available to you. I can imagine that he is not happy about taking it on because he is aware that he has run up debts and doesn't trust himself in these matters.
Let me suggest a program that I love - YNAB. If you go to their website (http://www.youneedabudget.com), they have a lot of very helpful information about budgeting, handling credit cards, and paying down debt. It is when you have debts that you need a budget, far more than when you have money to spare. It was incredibly empowering to me to have it all laid out, and at the start of each month to know how much I would have to spend that month and allocate it - including how much was allocated to paying down debt.
If he is reluctant, I wouldn't try to force it, but do it while keeping him fully informed about what is going on, and taking suggestions for changes. If he is not used to controlling money in this way, he perhaps needs to see how it is done, and then gets the confidence to do it himself. I had the opposite problem myself, in that as I was away so much my wife looked after a lot of the household finances, including a fair number of our investments. I did not have a good visibility on what exactly she had done. She is very responsible about it, handling day-to-day money, but I could see that she does not understand investment very well, so I have gradually been either taking it on, or letting it stay in her name, but with me talking through what the options are.
MarvelousMelony 10y ago
YNAB is wonderful! That is the program I have been attempting to use. When I showed my husband the 4 rules though, he wasn't interested in using it 'yet'. He basically said maybe in like a year when we don't have debt anymore.
I've attempted to use it on my own without him, but without much success. If like to attempt that again, but I'm not sure how to do so effectively. Do you have any advice on that?
[deleted] 10y ago
I wish I did, because I have exactly the same problem with my wife (ie getting her to use a budgeting program). She thinks it is over complicated, and she has her own system (double entry cash book). The thing is, that is not really control, because she knows and tracks what has been spent AFTER it was spent, rather than working out beforehand how much was available to spend on something. However, experience tells me that arguing does no good, she will think it is a criticism of her handling of things. So I do it in addition to her book keeping. It isn't perfect, because I only know what she spends on the joint account after it is done, but it will get there.
The crucial point to get across is that this is even more important for handling debt than handling a surplus, but since I don't know him I wouldn't like to say the best way to do that. Good luck.
FleetingWish 10y ago
To be frank, this plan to make him take care of the finances is contrary to this advice. If he told you he doesn't want to do it, than forcing him do otherwise is controlling him.
Here are your options:
If you really want him to take over the finances, you have to make him want to. In order to do this you have to give him a good solid reason why you don't want to do it anymore, and then hope that he agrees with you that he should take it over. For example you could try telling him "I'm uncomfortable doing the finances because I feel like it makes you feel like it's not your money as well. I want you to feel like this is your money"... or something like that. Then since he's the captain he gets to make a decision based on that information, and he'll either take over the finances or not. But the key is it's up to him, not you, and not Laura Doyle.
ChopsNZ 10y ago
Managing money and financial literacy is a skill and one you both need to learn. Yes certain types of debt are scary, esp at your age. Shoving your head in the sand because you don't want to deal with it is a recipe for disaster. For both of you. You also need to build your own credit. I cannot stress how important this is. You do not want to be the 50 year old widow who cannot get a phone contract or have the power bill in your name or rent a property because your husband 'took care of the bills'. I could share some horror stories of women who took this approach and learnt some very bitter lessons.
As noted you need professional budget adviser. They will start you of and make the whole thing a lot easier to manage and you will not be anywhere near as stressed. You may even start to enjoy it. Imagine sitting down once a month and going "Babe. Look how well we are doing! We have so got this sorted." rather than "I can't face this"
It sounds like he doesn't have the confidence to deal with it (at the moment) either and pushing it on him seems really unfair. He needs your support, not another thing to worry about.
Edit. Just to add, you need to play to each others strengths. It could well be he is not 'good' with money. My parents have been very successful across a wide range of ventures and my mother runs the money because she knows where every cent is. We all know that left to his own devices Dad would have sent us broke. He is extremely good at business and investment, but not the money side, so they balance each other out perfectly.
You can do this and you can be good at it, but you will never know unless you try.
[deleted] 10y ago
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TheTerrorSquad 10y ago
Thats awesome!! Well Done :)
[deleted] 10y ago
I'm glad you've been fortunate enough to never have to deal with having a lot of debt personally - many people aren't that lucky. Debt is stressful, but it's not the end of the world. You have a lot to be thankful for (and appreciate)- your husband is alive, employed, and improving in every area of his life. That said, you can be a huge asset to him by taking the financial situation on directly. I know your preferred situation is one where he controls the finances, but you can't force him into doing that. My guess is that he feels guilty about the debt, and is torn up because he's the source of the strain. That said, you are married, so you have to help shoulder this because it's in the best interest of your relationship and your husband.
Get some professional help/advice about your money situation. Do research online, and make up a budget. Create a comprehensive plan of attack, and then sit down with your husband and explain things. That may prompt him to formulate a few ideas. I think the key here is to show a bit of empathy and show that you're willing to do what is needed. He's putting his life back together (literally), and he needs the support of a proactive (and understanding) wife.
MarvelousMelony 10y ago
It's his debt not mine, and I really don't know what is owed to whom. Because of this, I'd be very uncomfortable with hiring a professional without consulting him. As far as making a budget goes, I've tried that, and he wouldn't even attempt to follow it. He said he feels like a budget is pointless until our income is larger and until more of his debt is paid off. I feel like at this point it would be controlling, or at least be perceived as such, if I were to try to get him to adhere to a budget, or even to present one to him again.
You said I can be a huge asset by taking the financial situation on directly. I'm not sure I understand your meaning. Are you suggesting I just start paying off his debts, since he seems too overwhelmed to do anything about it right now?
FleetingWish 10y ago
I thought you wanted to start sharing money. Now it's both of yours. It's this type of mindset that will make him feel not welcome to "your" money.
MarvelousMelony 10y ago
You completely took my words out of context. I was only meaning to respond to phantomdream09's suggestion of looking at all the debt and researching how best to pay it off. I can't do that, because I don't know what exactly the debts are; I don't know where to find that information, as the debts didn't originate with me.
They are not my debts in that the collection agencies call his phone, looking for him, and send mail to his old address, addressed to him, and never call me or mail me. I don't have much ability to do anything about them without his direct involvement because of this. That being said, I married him, and I fully accept that these debts are now both of ours. I'm eager to assist in paying them off, just as I'm anxious for him to view the money I earn as 'ours' and not 'mine'.
[deleted] 10y ago
I meant that you could take a look at all the debt, do research on different approaches to paying it down, and meet with a professional to discuss options. When you don't have a lot of left-over cash, that's when budgeting matters most.
Granted you can't make him stick to a budget, but if you figure out the various timelines as part of your research that may make it easier to face. "If we stop buying x and y, we save $100 a month. Applying that money to Debt A will allow us to pay it down entirely in 3 years" - that is the kind of useful information that will help you make good decisions. You should know how your spending habits break down, and figure out how to cut back. You both sound reluctant to deal with this issue, but only by facing it will things get better.
TheTerrorSquad 10y ago
Can't really help you with this as it all hinges on what your Husband wants.
It sounds to me that this is more about you and what you want when really it should be about what your husband wants.
Can I ask why you want to do this?
[deleted] 10y ago
I agree, her concern seems to stem from the fact that she doesn't want to feel the stress of her husband's debt, and doing so just makes her too uncomfortable. Being a dependable First Mate however, means that you have to be willing to rise to the challenge, to do what is best for both your relationship and your SO/H.
MarvelousMelony 10y ago
I want to give him control of the money, because I think he will handle it better than I do. He was great with money in college, but developed some pretty bad spending habits in recent years. He recognizes this, and they're improving. I think it would be a huge confidence booster for him to be in charge of both our money and see how competently he can manage it. Yes, his debt stresses me out incredibly, and I want to start paying it off, but my attempts to get that started have been to no avail so far so I've stopped trying. Until this week, he hasn't been doing much about it, but now he also seems to want to start tackling it. If this is indeed the case, I think it would make it much easier for him to figure out how much to pay on various debts each month if he knows what he has to work with.
TheTerrorSquad 10y ago
There are an awful lot of " I think and I want " in your post and a lot of those are assuming what he wants and how well he is or isn't doing. You may have good intentions but you are are leading this relationship. you're dictating too much and mostly because you want it
MarvelousMelony 10y ago
He has requested that we both start paying bills 50/50, and though I don't understand that desire because it makes more sense to me to combine our incomes like we've been talking about, maybe that's what I should do? Just start contributing half the money for monthly bills, and let him initiate the next step?