This is in regards to a rather thoughtful recent video made by a female matchmaker dissecting the ultra-hypergamy and entitlement of an aging hypergamist career woman: https://www.forums.red/p/whereareallthegoodmen/325297/nothing_redpills_women_harder_than_working_as_a_professional
I've posted on the paradox of Hypergamy, but let's now explore how hypergamy forces women to abandon love.
https://www.forums.red/p/whereallthegoodmenare/324971/the_paradox_of_strong_and_independent_career_women_hypergamy
Eff Dee Ess defines hypergamy for women, for those few women who can't seem to "get" the concept, that relationships with men are ONLY valid if she gets more out of it than he does. Ironically, when men are as mercenary as women, the system breaks down as Scott Adams, RIP, cleverly points out: https://imgur.com/a/E44dHAw
Hypergamy is a game of chicken and/or musical chairs: https://youtu.be/_nIwitIOeUM
They're gambling with their family's future simply to have a brag they got a deal sort of like scoring a below wholesale buy at a car dealership.
Ponder that for a moment: They regard their future husband and father of their children with the same emotional detachment as firesale business transaction. They also gamble with their family's future "I'd rather die alone than settle!" versus fathers, including me, who would throw ourselves under a bus in a microsecond to save our daughter and likely also our wife as well? Why?
Because I couldn't live with myself if I didn't. Not that society would judge me as unchivalrous but because, despite my wife's hypergamy and many other annoyances, I love her (I tell this to halfway decent women I know and they go "awww!") Love isn't something for me that's a weakness preventing me from scoring a free meal or some social status but rather the opposite: I do value someone being there for me even if, gasp, I have to PAY for it. Love to me about personal sacrifice which, ironically, makes love a largely masculine trait doesn't it?
Another cultural reference. "But surely you can't put a price on your family's lives!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kpuyVkqP68&t=89s
Which women get this kind of love even if they don't truly value it at the same degree men do? This brings to mind Gandalf saying to Frodo in LotR: "Deserves it! I dare say he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."
Smart women with minimal hypergamy and a heart, deserve it and find it. They marry young or they at least have some perception of market value. They don't go to the car dealership demanding a Rav4 at below MSRP on Tax Day.
The traditional image we have of women are as selfless mothers and wives. For example, like Scarlett the cat that rushed back into a fire to rescue her kittens (be warned, this is onion crying material): https://youtu.be/Oz9xdz1dDuk
When Scarlet died, her picture went up on the Times Square Jumbotron: https://www.facebook.com/ScarlettTheHeroCat/photos/the-jumbotron-in-times-square-announcing-scarletts-passing-/1118397879858479/
Aging women who become even MORE demanding, entitled, and even unpleasant are difficult to feel empathy for. Although the film The Materialists was full of lame cultural tropes, this scene is gold and similar to the above actual woman client: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZIJwHq6pzCQ
Bottom line: women's hypergamy is a philosophy but also a strategy that, even when successful, requires a denial of love. I've read several times them saying: "A woman should love a man just slightly less than he loves her" but this level of "equality" is similar to financial hypergamy like the recent doctor suffered. How does one manage "just below" hypergamy? Doctor babe who earns "just below" her husband at 95% and she gets a raise, and pretty soon the whole marriage is destabilized because "He just was miserable with my success and the chemistry wasn't there!" So 60% is more likely safer meaning women deny themselves love in exchange for Power.
And this is when it actually WORKS!!! This is when they actually WIN the game of hypergamy musical chairs!
As per @Typo-MAGAshiv request below plus further rumination, some additional thoughts on Rule 3: However one rationalizes hypergamy or the strategies necessary to implement it, it increasingly has led, from what I have seen particularly exacerbated in popular culture of late, in such women becoming utterly apathetic and unhappy no matter what. They have increasingly said they find 95% of men "below average", and so on. It's sucked the lifeforce and will out of them.
And this BEGS the question: Why would 5% men with choices want miserable, apathetic, or ambivalent women with their lifeforce sucked out?
The answer is that nearly all of them don't, but these women fail to realize this because they believe that their ambivalence and misery are features, not drawbacks or simply don't realize it entirely.
I'm going to follow up on this with a post regarding the increasing sexual ambivalence of modern aging single women: Have they become asexual and frigid yet nonetheless wanting a top tier husband?
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 1mo ago Stickied
OK, now that I've commented as a commenter, mod duties call.
Dude. You keep running afoul of WATGMA's rule 3:
Please edit something in that addresses this.
Also, for future reference, if you have something that you feel an urgent need to say but can't think of how to tie it in to this requirement at WATGMA, consider if maybe it fits at TheRedPill forum instead.
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 1mo ago
@polishknight, from your edit:
Rule 3 again, with the relevant portion in bold again:
Your edit explains why women are miserable, but it still does not address why they can't find a good man or why good men are avoiding commitment.
polishknight Endorsed 1mo ago Stickied
First off, how do I quote comments again in this? I only see "permalink"?
THIS discussion is why I think it's useful to have a discussion on this topic here, or if necessary, on TRP.
YOUR QUOTE FROM ME: "They have increasingly said they find 95% of men "below average", and so on."
Which, I submit, applies to: "why women can't find a "good man"
When a woman has excluded a mathematical 45% of men in addition to the 50% of men as "below average", leaving only 5% of men available then I postulate that this is self-evident why they "can't find a good man" due to resource competition and market reactionary inflation (the change of behavior from a seller when offered multiple buyers for the same limited goods.)
If you desire, I can put that in the above post but I think it's such a running theme of humor as well as its own flair on WAATGM that it didn't need explicitly pointed out.
I could further spoonfeed you (pardon the term) that when a woman is "miserable", this also affects her ability to RETAIN a top echelon mate. THAT is the Big Point I'm making here. We are well aware of hypergamy in general, but that hypergamous women's general distemperment further undermines their attractiveness.
Heck, when young men experience as similar phenomenon where they've become miserable, they're mocked as "bitter boys" by women and dismissed from any notion of pity or compassion.
Do men find "bitter girls" attractive?" Particularly if he's got choices?
This is something I personally discovered myself 35 years ago when a woman asked me about it. I'm not a top-echelon man, but nonetheless it begs the question why even normie men want to subject themselves to humiliation rituals of asking out women in public or dating events when the women are simply miserable, cruel and nasty.
It's also, if you haven't seen it, the (related) theme of the the 1955 Academy Award winning film "Marty" starring Ernest Borgnine. Yes, 1955!!! A film definitely on my backlog along with The Diner 1982.
https://youtu.be/ktXm7CRXbsE https://youtu.be/TzAnOnVKwzk
I'd prefer that if you think this is essential, that the comment be stickied to the top and I refer to it in the main post.
PS: Ernest was reputed to have gotten divorced from Ethel Merman in a month because she was JEALOUS that he was constantly approached by fans for autographs more than her!
Did they REALLY need two police_ officers assigned to THAT room? https://youtu.be/vZqr-1GJIAk?t=79
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 1mo ago
Copy and paste the lines you want, and put a ">" at the start of each line, including empty lines in between lines. Same as on reddit.
I'll use the "\" to negate the formatting so you can see what it looks like in your text box.
Example:
> [paragraph one]
>
> [paragraph two]
>
> [paragraph three]
(OK, negating the formatting has some weird effects. I either end up with a bunch of stuff on the same line, or extra paragraph breaks you don't actually want. )
Yes, do please edit it into the post!
For all that I and many others can read between the lines and see what you're getting at, it really should be spelled out in the OP. It's not just old hands reading these, you know.
WATGMA is less humor, more serious.
That's why if you go through the archives, you'll see less of me than of the other mods back when they were still around.
I'll have to remember to check those out once I'm able.
I'm usually in places where it's either too loud to hear the sound from videos, and/or can't be on my phone for too long.
My YouTube usage is usually just listening as I drive or do tasks at home.
polishknight Endorsed 1mo ago
Added.
Please sticky my above comment so the reader can see it, but I hope my clarification was useful at the end of the post.
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 1mo ago
All it'll do is sticky it to the top of nested replies under the comment to which you were replying.
It'll still make it stand out more, so done.
mattyanon 1mo ago
Yep.... entirely based on their PR and devoid of evidence.
polishknight Endorsed 1mo ago
Appropriate to TRP rather than here as a single post, but man, what a story.
My paternal grandmother co-operated a Polish grocery store in the 1930's to 1950's and set up a flower shop. They extended credit to the coal miners who often didn't pay them back. She founded a Catholic charity: "New Mothers" to help out new mothers who husbands were in the mines as they struggled to feed newborn babies, change diapers, colic, and so on.
When she passed away in 1968, the car procession at the funeral was a mile long.
Perhaps that's what Red Pilled me. I knew how decent, wonderful, human, and virtuous women could be. I'm typing this through tears. What a woman!
I regret when I went on dates when girls asked the shit test question "What kind of woman do you want?" I should have answered by telling them that I wouldn't mind someone like my grandmother, but I'd be happy to accept someone a bit below that with basic kindness and adult responsibilities and not quick-to-judge and watch the look on their faces.
mattyanon 1mo ago
We don't test women because if we did we would all die a virgin
polishknight Endorsed 1mo ago
Ha! I did! And yes, nearly all of them failed the most basic shit tests they give us except one very sweet girl but I didn't have the heart because she was just a notch below my (generous) minimum standards which was when I decided I had to accept their moral flaws. I found I could do so by regarding them to be like children, so to speak, who are worthy of love. If we view women as fundamentally overgrown teenagers, it becomes a lot easier.
I think it did help my frame tremendously in that I had set the tone that I could reject a woman and go home alone and survive and that sex wasn't worth begging for. With all the women I have had, I had the position that if they got too moody, I wasn't going to. jump through hoops. My wife got annoyed about it "You don't know how to treat a woman!" she cried but IMO that meant my marriage game was going top notch. So if I jumped through a particularly hoop dream she had, she'd only just raise the bar the next time until I couldn't please her anymore.
I know that's an intimate thing to share here, but I think it's worth letting other men know we don't need to constantly compete with some unattainable ideal to enjoy basic affection and respect as men and human beings.
Overkill_Engine Endorsed 1mo ago
Something something do not negotiate with terrorists or pay dane-geld.
polishknight Endorsed 1mo ago
I was re-reading an Atlantic article by some guy whose wife cheated on him with his best friend and he got divorced and then his journey over it. A common theme I've read is the women crying he's "not making effort" AND how she became unhappy and it was his fault.
It's not just terrorists, it's teenagers. Spoiled teenagers that are beyond normal parental discipline but yet still want daddy to take care of them.
Hence why so many say they need to FEEL "protected/led/provided for". They can't even control their own feelings IN SPITE of being "independent". Er, do they even know what "independent" means?
I also read quite a bit on X from them griping that they're "carrying the whole mental load": "I had to tell him to take out the garbage!"
First off, I KNOW that my wife LOVES finding things to complain about. I actually see her looking for something to nitpick on. So this 'mental load' nonsense is BS like a teenager complaining that playing video games and eating candy is a burden and "they're bored" and "have nothing to eat".
mattyanon 1mo ago
Right.
But more importantly:
Do Not Marry
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 1mo ago
You're going by the blue pilled definition of hypergamy, again, which only focuses on the beta bucks aspect.
Hypergamy as defined by RP and evolutionary psychology is a woman wanting a man who is above her in every possible way. This includes alpha fucks and beta bucks. Most blue pilled discussion completely ignores the alpha fucks aspect.
Some other corrections:
Its origin is instinct. It's biological. They can't help having it.
However, they can help what they do about it.
Not quite.
When you're a woman's hypergamous best option, she will love you. But beware that women are incapable of loving men the way men love women. As Rollo says so frequently, men love idealistically while women love opportunistically.
It's also why when a woman no longer views her man as her hypergamous best option, the man will experience the light switch effect. It'll be as though she never loved him in the first place.
They operate based on their instincts and their emotions. Facts don't matter.
facts are a tool of the patriarchy!
Anyway, a few illustrative examples of women still practicing hypergamy while marrying a man who makes less than they do:
1) I was junior enlisted when I met my wife. She brought in more money than me. I left her in the dust when I became an officer, then fell behind for a few years after getting out of the Army. I have since left her in the dust in my trade.
2) one of my mentors in this trade is married to a stockbroker. He makes bank, but her income blows his out of the water
3) one of my colleagues in this trade is married to a PhD research scientist. He makes bank, but she makes significantly more.
What do all 3 of us have in common that these women were willing to marry men who made less?
1) I'm the shortest at 5' 11". Both of these other dudes are well over 6'.
2) all 3 of us are charming as hell. The mentor dude is likely the least charming of the 3 of us, but still above average in charm.
3) all 3 of us exude ZFG energy.
Hypergamy can be satisfied without the man earning more. Hell, sometimes the man can even be a bum. Oprah has had Steadman living at her expense for decades now.
Oh, and the entitled physician inspin who inspired your post? She still seeks above her level in the alpha fucks category as well. Hell, I don't even meet her demands as a 5' 11" midget, but I'm still above her.
polishknight Endorsed 1mo ago
I concur something biological is going on for women to engage in such behavior collectively not just in the west, but emerging elsewhere as well.
That said, it IS a literal philosophy as well published on the Eff Dee Ess website. I chuckle because, as you say, it's largely biological so only women would think it's some kind of merit for them to read dozens of articles to "teach" them what they already want to do anyway like teenage boys learning that playing video games can be fun!
That said, merely because women may default to this behavior doesn't make it healthy anymore than wolfing down oily foods. Quick and fun anecdote: A Polish friend worked in an English farm 30 years ago and the local pub owner ate fried fish-and-chips for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. It astonished him that the guy didn't die of a heart attack while he knew him!
Women ARE capable of being better just as they constantly (as I'm sure you are aware) nag us to be but also society expects of men. Boys do not become men simply by turning 18. Heck, there was a Seinfeld episode that played with the concept where a boy had his bar mitzvah and then hit on Elaine because he was "officially" a man. Elaine then informed him of the actual requirements of manhood.
In other words, hypergamy is actually a form of JUVENILE female behavior hence why many grown "women" engage in teenager dating behaviors. https://fedrz.wordpress.com/2013/04/18/woman-the-most-responsible-teenager-in-the-house/
Women are actually HAPPIER and more fulfilled with NOT being hypergamous. By that, I mean being loving and less selfish is actually more emotionally fulfilling than being a avaricious shrew. Note that this mindset doesn't mean they will be happy with a man EVEN WHEN hypergamy is fulfilled. The following may be a good story for WATGMA actually but briefly, I knew an actual Certified Chad whose old lady cheated on him and he found out because the guy she was cheating on him was cheated on so he told him (yeah, that's messed up!). Anyway, it's a pretty cool story I should post along with the one about the crazy denny's manager. I think those (may) satisfy the cantankerous moderator!
Anyhoo, have you noticed how women are referring to themselves as children without irony lately? "Girls in Math!" Now, with my WWII era friends including the former member of The Hitler Youth, the "German Girls club" didn't have anyone younger than 80 in it, but that was their sense of humor. Modern women really do think that they deserve the status of woman without any actual adult responsibilities with "strong and independent" meaning The Bare Minimum of paying their own rent as if that's a Nobel Prize winning accomplishment.
Let's put this into perspective: My wife was a pain in the arse but I recognized her potential so I wifed her up. She expected me to be taller than her and I earned more but... she got engaged to me while I was between jobs and that means a lot! That said, I put up with that because the family mattered to me. My daughter makes it all worth it.
Women who say "I'm not going to settle" for non-hypergamy and throw their eggs into the proverbial fire demonstrate a rank immaturity, don't you think? This "instinct" is something a child would do, like scream when a wolf pack is nearby and ready to attack you. It's not something that inspires men to wife them up but rather screams lack of trust or commitment in a legal culture where the risk falls on men.
As a strategy, it's a bad one for the majority of them in the long run in two ways: 1) A significant minority of them are winding up with bad boys (tall confident deadbeats) or childless. 2) Unhappy as they continually are looking at the grass on the other side of the fence since they withhold love as I wrote above.
It only worked for a brief period of time. Note that prior to women's liberation, the Patriarchy or tribe elders chose women's mates so the girls could whine all they like to no avail.
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 1mo ago Stickied
A) that doesn't make it a philosophy.
B) FDS also teaches its adherents to delay sex with relationship-worthy men while fucking unsuitable men on the side to satisfy a woman's urges. In other words, engage in the Dual Mating Strategy that WAATGM exists to expose, and which women also do out of instinct anyway.
Who the fuck ever said it was healthy?!
ALL women are ALWAYS hypergamous.
It's just a matter of degree, and some of them are willing to sacrifice in some areas to gain in other areas.
Again, you're using the blue pilled definition of hypergamy, which only focuses on the beta bucks side and ignores the alpha fucks side of hypergamy.
polishknight Endorsed 1mo ago
This will get philosophical below…
Well, the rationalization for hypergamy is that women’s offspring will be better provided for and/or get better genes and even that it would behoove the species.
I chuckle about the latter, in particular, for 2 reasons: 1) Women are notoriously awful at choosing mates hence why so many single mothers out there with crack baby gang bangers. 2) Since the invention of language, at least, women didn’t choose mates but rather the tribal elders or when women were, er, acquired by other tribes…
The ONE thing women do NOT select for via hypergamy is intelligence. Left to women, perhaps men would be tall or have great plumage, like birds, but do birds rule the Earth?
I like to point out to them, to their discomfort, that Patriarchy is what drove the final evolution of man to this (precarious) point.
Women often shriek on social media that back in the days of oppression, when women “needed” men and weren’t “strong and independent”, they had to (ick!) choose men for pedestrian reasons. These pragmatic reasons weren’t hypergamous in that a short, reliable guy is a better mate than a drunk tall guy.
Regarding philosophy: Women when left to their most banal purposes act badly similar to concepts of Lord of the Flies, Paradise Lost?, or A Clockwork Orange. The notion of Manhood is of civilized behavior where boys are expected to be more responsible.
Indeed, it confuses and offends women when they're asked "are you acting like an adult?" and they say "I'm strong and independent! I pay my own bills!" but yet if they really pay their own bills, why do they NEED men to "provide/protect/lead" for them to "feel" safe?
SwarmShawarma 1mo ago
It is kind of written in the definition
Philosophy=conditioning at best here