Sorry for the clever title but bear with me. It'll make sense :-)
Guys just emerging from their blue pill days, or guys wanting to move forward from there, have plenty of advice about what type of person not to be. Don't put women on pedestals. Don't appear needy. Move on and don't call them. Etc. Etc.
TRP does a good job in advising guys on what type of man to become. But I want to round that out by talking about so-called assholes. If you ask a frustrated nice guy, one who hasn't yet swallowed the red pill, what type of guy his female crush wants, he'll probably reply: assholes. Outlaw biker dudes. Convicts. Sociopaths. But this isn't true. In adolescence, people are segregated into social groups, and a typical nice guy, probably has no guy friends who are actually successful with women. So why is he so sure that it's always assholes who get the girl? Because he's relying on girls to describe to him the guy they're dating.
Women are nothing if not unreliable narrators. And relying on them to describe how their boyfriend behaves is a recipe for disaster. Of course they're going to paint their boyfriends as abusive assholes. And if you accept their descriptions uncritically, then it's no surprise that you're going to conclude that this woman is indeed attracted to assholes, and that therefore, to get this woman, you must become an asshole. Doing so would be a mistake, or at least, will lead you to far less success than truly understanding what desirable guys are like, and why women find them desirable.
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Here's a little background on why you should at least hear me out. Without risking doxxing myself, in grade school and high school, I was a nerdy blue pilled dude, complete with glasses and a oneitis crush that lasted for years. But I was also a little different. My friends and I were a bit of social chameleons. Nerds might have been our soul mates, but we also hung out with everyone from theater nerds, druggies, gung ho student government types, popular kids, etc. including women in those groups. Guys within my group of friends dated popular and not-so-popular girls. I also played sports. I was never the star, pretty much always on the bench, but that meant I got to at least know the popular jocks.
All this is to say that, in high school, despite being a nerd, I had first-hand perspective about the guys that women were dating and complaining about being assholes. And the first thing I noticed was, they weren't assholes. At least not in the way that we guys understand that definition.
Those muscle-bound jocks that every girl dates but cries about to their blue pill orbiters? He's actually usually a pretty cool, laid-back guy who's fun to hang out with. Ironically, the true bullies and assholes tended to be the guys one step below the popular guys, who needed to put down and terrorize the people below him in order to make himself look good. The top guys' position in the pecking order was much more secure, so he had no need to put other people down; he could hang out with a nerd all he wanted and no one would question his social standing.
So what made them an asshole in women's eyes? What I realized was that when women say their boyfriend is an asshole, it basically boils down to "my boyfriend puts his own priorities ahead of mine." The boyfriend might not want to spend hours of his time listening to her inane gossip. Or he might have his own plans for the weekend. Or when they're deciding on activities, he'll want to spend at least some of the time doing stuff he likes. Here's a test you can run: when a woman runs to you and starts sobbing about her boyfriend (that she never breaks up with) that he's such an asshole (for the millionth time). Don't just let her go on sobbing. Ask her specific questions. From the most extreme to the least: "Did he beat you?" "Did he threaten you in any way?" "Did he abuse you? And if you say emotional abuse, please tell me what he actually did." "Did he insult you?" As you work your way through the list as you try to divine what specific action he did that set this girl off, 9/10 times, you'll find it's a variation of the above. In some way, he put his own interests above hers. He blew her off when she wanted him to be with her for an event (as if he can't have his own schedule). He disagreed with her choice on something (dinner, an activity, whatever) and they ended up doing what he wanted to do (and no, it's not coercion if you decide to go to dinner at a restaurant of his choosing). He told her something ages ago, still abides by it, and isn't willing to change it just because she's now asking him to.
Just about the only almost-asshole'ish behavior you'll see is that he "cheated" on her. And I put cheating in quotes, because, unless they're married, you have no idea whether he ever committed to her in the first place. Sure, there are plenty of cases where a guy has lied and said he's committed while secretly having a side piece. But in this day and age, with hookup culture so dominant, the need to lie about seeing other people is much diminished. For that reason, it's much more common that a guy stated at the very outset of the relationship that it's not exclusive, and after a few months, the woman asks to be exclusive and the guy refuses, or worse, the woman just assumes that now they're exclusive without actually ever notifying the guy that this is now her new expectation. And then she comes running to you with tears in her eyes about how she just found out her boyfriend is "cheating" on her. In all these ways, do not rely on the girl's assessment of her guy's actions. Try to find out about the action itself. Most times, you'll see that the action is not what most guys would call being an asshole.
Before I proceed, let me state that I'm not saying assholes don't exist. But the group of women who genuinely, truly love real assholes is relatively small (although it may be bigger than the number of men who are truly sociopathic assholes, which is why they seem to have an abundance of women :-). The vast majority of women who claim the guys they date are assholes are merely using that term to shame a man who refuses to bend his entire life to her wishes. It is very much the counterpart of women claiming they were in an abusive relationship. While some women truly are in physically and emotionally abusive relationships, the vast majority of women who say they were in one weren't abused; they were merely dissatisfied with some aspect of the relationship, usually that the guy didn't kowtow to her wishes and wants.
2. So the next time a woman claims the guy she's fucking is an asshole, don't believe that automatically. At least dig further and get the facts and don't just assume the woman is automatically right. Because the bigger problem is when guys make the logical leap to saying "if this woman keeps dating assholes, and I want to date this woman, then I must become an asshole." That sounds logical. And indeed, both men and women believe it. Men in the blue pill phase think they need to start yelling at women, degrading them, etc in order to get them to like them. And women all wonder why nice guys, as soon as they improve their looks, get a little money, and start attracting interest, become assholes. But the flaw is, how she defines an asshole and how you define an asshole is entirely different. I hope I've shown you that your/our definition of an asshole (guy who mistreats women) is not the same as a woman's definition of an asshole (guy who refuses to sublimate his entire life to her whims). And so now, I'll show you how to become the not-an-asshole asshole that women love to date.
The answer is simple, and consists of 2 inter-related parts.
First, and most important: build a life that you truly love leading. Many people (men and women) desperately want a relationship mainly because the rest of their life is so miserable, and they hope that if only they can snag some dream man/woman, that person will be able to magically fix it. Don't be that guy. (Also, relationships don't fix other problems in your life. If anything, other problems in your life doom promising relationships.) So do the hard work of building that life yourself. Do you want a satisfying career? Do you want to live in an exciting city? Do you want to have a great circle of friends that can keep you from being lonely? Yes? Then work on those things.
While you're building that life, if you feel that you want a certain type of woman in your life, then it behooves you to incorporate what she would want as well. I can see you getting defensive reading those words "Ogrilla wants me to become a dancing monkey! I'm not going to change just for a woman! Isn't that the opposite of what he's been saying all along? Hypocrite!" But hear me out. I'm not saying become a dancing monkey. If you go for the right type of woman, then many of your interests / goals in life / etc will align. Indeed, that's the very definition of "the right type of woman" for you. Which means, creating a life that such a woman would find attractive, would also be a life that you would find attractive and satisfying. On the other hand, if you think your ideal woman is someone who has an entirely different conception of a satisfying life than you do, then it would be wise to rethink what type of woman you're aiming for (I could probably write another article on this point :-). So most of this is choosing the right type of woman, and going beyond superficial stuff like looks. But on the margins (never compromise on your core), there may be things that you can incorporate that you still would be okay with, and that would make you more attractive to the types of women you want.
Second, once you have this attractive life, don't change it for a woman. I don't mean don't ever compromise. On the margins, on unimportant stuff, you will need to make some accommodations. But decide what's important to you, what constitutes the core of your life, and don't compromise on that. If you've truly succeeded in building a great life, you'll find that lots of woman will want to be a part of it, and this will help you realize that there's no need to compromise because you can easily find another woman, but you only have one life to live.
These two things feed on themselves: the more satisfying a life you build, the more you enjoy it, the more you're motivated to keep building, and the less you'll be willing to give it up for a woman. Meanwhile, as this life attracts more women to it, you stop putting them on a pedestal, realize that women are easier to replace than your core values or other important parts of your life, and the less you'll be willing to bend to their wishes. And with that, your transformation into an asshole (not-an-asshole) will be complete. With any luck, your new girlfriend will be crying on her orbiter's shoulder about how the guy she's fucking (i.e. you!) is an asshole for not caving into her demands!
aldabruzzo Mod 2y ago
It bears repeating:
When a woman calls a man a jerk or an asshole, here's what she means:
--man who will not do what I want, when I want, how I want
--man who won't take orders from me
--man who will not give me what I want, how and when I want
--man who will not give me the relationship or commitment I want, when and how I want
--man who will not prioritize me and my wants/needs/desires above himself
--man who doesn't do what he says he'll do
--unreliable, irresponsible man. I can't count on him
polishknight Endorsed 2y ago
I enjoyed this and have a story to share to illustrate the author's point. A friend/colleague of mine, "Derek" (not real name") is a chad and overall nice guy to be around. Very easy going, doesn't bully anyone, cheerful. It's like he won the genetic lottery and is just enjoying the ride. Back when he was single and hung out with his friends in Pittsburgh to go skiing every year, he hooked up with a gal that worked at the ski resort and then we went back home. He goes back next year and finds everyone at the bar wearing "FUD" buttons. He asked what they meant and they said "Eff You Derek! This jerk banged Sheila and treated her like garbage!" So...
He got one of the buttons, put it on, and just hung out with all the guys and by the time she found out he was in the bar, he was friends with half of them. They saw he was a nice guy and didn't buy her victim story. He had some fun, never promised anything, and that was that.
He tells me to this day he STILL goes skiing there and she turns around and faces the wall out of protest when he goes by.
I really admire he didn't just back down and run off at the scene and stood his ground. It's good she didn't take things further and go violent. She's a true alpha widow who appeared to hold a grudge against him for YEARS.
That all being said, I did try this out during my purple pill? years back 30 years and found women DID get excited by jerk behavior, within carefully controlled doses, but I didn't know what "negging" was back then. It does work, sort of, but not in the manner we think of "jerk" as the author points out.
ogrilla99 Mod 2y ago
Yeah, I agree, it does work, but there's a very specific way of doing it correctly. I feel like the term negging is inaccurate. It's more like teasing. And you have to do it in a way that's more playful than hurtful. And doing that means you have to be able to read the woman and understand what she's likely to take as a joke and what she's likely to be truly hurt or offended by.
FWIW, whenever I went through my bitter misogyny phase after a bad breakup, I would have women crawling all over me, so I definitely get what you're saying. I think it's because during that time, I was never impolite or yelled or treated women badly. It was that I became more standoffish. Friendly, but not really interested in engaging, and would rather spend my time with my male friends. Knowing that I wasn't won over by their charms and that I'd willingly choose a beer with my buds or even a night alone by myself than spend time with her was like catnip, especially to hot women who never got that type of response.
While I was always a bit of a chameleon in high school, I started hanging out much more with bonafide Chads later in life when I became more successful. And to a person, none of the Chads I hung out with were assholes. They were charming, fun to hang out with (for both men and women), always doing exciting stuff, and having great lives. They didn't even bully non-Chads. Instead, they'd usually try to help them out, give them courage to talk to a girl at a bar, etc. And yet plenty of women would complain about one or the other guy in our group being a jerk or an asshole (sometimes it was me, much to my amusement :-). It really opened my eyes to understanding what women really look for in a guy, which is almost never what they actually say about the matter.
moorekom Mod 2y ago
No. Negging is a legitimate concept. The problem is that it often becomes insult. I have been guilty of this in the beginning myself. I'll try to explain it.
Teasing: You're a bad girl.
Negging: You're not nice/ You're not making it easy to like you.
Insult: You're a bitch.
The purpose of negging is to establish standards and to make the girl qualify to those standards. As she qualifies to those standards, she will chase you and submit to you. That said, not everyone understands it right or executes it right so it gets a bad rep. Negging can be playful or serious, but it cannot be insulting. For a girl to qualify to you and chase you, you must be better than her and she has to be sure that there is the possibility of more.
aldabruzzo Mod 2y ago
There's a reason why negging is one of the hardest Game maneuvers to execute and why most men are encouraged not to try using it.
moorekom Mod 2y ago
Yes, it is tricky to execute until you get a handle on what it is.
polishknight Endorsed 2y ago
Another way of putting "teasing" versus "insults" in the way "flirting" is designed to work for BOTH genders. Women "flirt" by making eye contact and smiling hence she has "plausible deniability" so she can deny having shown interest if it comes to that and still demand concessions from him and keep the upper hand. She can also (sadly) engage in cock tease behavior. Master "negs" can do the same to act defensively or offensively in this manner.
The key is keeping the "negs" in plausible deniability and hopefully original. If it's something like "You look great because you have a curvy figure, not like stick figure fashion models", it leaves them a bit insecure and knocks them down a peg WHETHER THEY WANT IT OR NOT. Women don't "flirt" with men to be helpful (they could just as easily talk to men and ask us out) but they do this to maintain the upper hand and dating, in the initial stages, is like a corporate business negotiation looking to get an edge over the competitor.
There's also the concept of whether men are in "clown game" mode versus a "neg" where men seek an advantage similar to what women do with men. Women don't engage in "flirting" and "games" because men "enjoy" being the pursuer but rather the opposite: It's to pull men's self-esteem down so she can get concessions from him (which is problematic because women find beta men who fall for their games to be unattractive.) In any case, men's negging is as careful a tightrope walk as women's is in that while clown game can significantly improve a man's chances to get laid with a woman who finds him neutral attractive to her, "negging" can perhaps help a man land a woman higher than clown game normally allows.
All this is moot for me at this point although I suppose I practice this type of game daily in my marriage (18 years anniversary today) where I'll neg my wife a bit in a similar fashion and it does look like teasing.
So "teasing" and "negging" LOOK very similar and avoid insults while being careful to use a more harsh tone (negging) for a particular purpose as compared to "teasing" which is absolutely neutral and more about fun.
moorekom Mod 2y ago
A proper neg would be: "I like curvy girls. I can't imagine being with fat girls who call themselves curvy."
The purpose of flirting is to determine interest and to know how invested someone is. If she thinks that you are over invested in her, she will make you jump through hoops. There was once a girl who asked me to do something. I told her I cannot. She asked me, in a girly and coy manner, to do it for her. I told her that I might have done it if she had asked me to do it for myself and for my betterment, but she didn't and we're going to move on. She started smiling wide.
To be quite frank, I only had a marginal idea of any of these concepts at that time. I was just driven and it was that drive she found extremely attractive to the point of chasing me.
Negging is not a tight rope walk. It is the easiest thing there is, if you are actually enforcing standards and making her respect and follow your standards. Everything is a tight rope walk when you don't want to walk away (example: PUAs). If you're ready to walk away for your standards, she will either leave or stay and conform.
polishknight Endorsed 2y ago
I'm a bit confused though in that for an example of a "neg", you talk about weight but if a woman is truly "curvy" and not "fat", then she doesn't have to "follow" standards since she's met them already. Unless she really is "fat" but calling herself curvy (and this is ok with the guy if she doesn't get too fat).
What I think makes negging so neat and powerful a tool for men is that it's as subtle as flirting is and presents opportunities for men to pull down modern women's inflated egos.
moorekom Mod 2y ago
That neg should be reserved for a girl who is kinda in shape or one who is starting to go out of shape. It can also be used to make sure she stays in shape.