So I was talking to a friend at work who’s relatively senior and is about 10 years older. I know he has a fair bit of experience with the ladies, as to how hot these women are - I’m not too sure. He mentioned to me that on the first date it’s best to flirt and show intent but intentionally do not go for a kiss or try to escalate into sex. The reason being is to show how good of a guy you are, and then on the second date escalate it all the way to sex. That will then help overcome any asd and also make them more obsessed with you rather than them feeling like you’re a shady character that just wanted them for sex/ them nexting you for trying it.
Is this good advice or is he talking out of his ass? For example if there’s someone you want to take a little more seriously, or if you want to overcome the barriers of asd, don’t invite them over to your place (or hotel if travelling) - after the first date.
I’ve had scenarios where women were willing to come back to where I’m staying on first date, but also in some instances they weren’t. So I’m not sure if this is a good or bad idea.
For context I’m in mylates 20s and mainly interact with women in early to mid 20s.
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 3w ago Stickied
Your friend is retarded.
@Musicgoon78 and @bozza already nailed it. Everyone else had a nugget or two of wisdom in their replies, but those two had the best replies.
Have you read the sidebar? Mainly, the first year of the Rational Male blog which is also the first Rational Male book?
From within that, an essential entry that has matched all the experiences I had back when I was a burgeoning young player and hadn't fucked up by getting married: Wait For It?.
This is in the sidebar, which you should have read before even posting here.
Dxmx99 1mo ago
Being good with women doesn't mean being The One Don Julio.
Not a bad idea to keep ears open to advice in the wild but take everything with a grain of salt unless proven effective.
I would do the complete opposite. Flirt, Kino, Close and if she doesn't let you in on the first date, but does on the second date, that's respectable.
Keep in mind that what she doesnt do on the date she may do with another right after it. There is no reason not to go for the lay.
Musicgoon78 3 1mo ago
This advice sounds like hot garbage! You should always push for a close. I've had first date lays or at least gone far enough to know that the next time, we're fucking.
Slow moving shit it's for insecure chumps. Let's cut out all the pretense and fantasy romantic shit. All a date really is is, "let's hang out for a bit before we fuck". That's the reality even though women pretend it's not.
No-Stress-Cat 2 1mo ago
There is no cookie-cutter method for hooking up with women. All women are different to some degree, as well as all the men who pull them. The tools here at your disposal are designed to help you read the situation. Her reactions. Her body language. Whether she's feeling the vibe.
What may work for your friend may not work for you. Then again, if you're similar enough it might. Having the traits that checks the boxes of what women want in general is a start, but that's only what gets your foot in the door.
You have to find what works for you, and the girl you're parleying with. That's why we have our own tests, such as push/pull, and kino. Some women want to play games. Some women just want to fuck. Some women want to play games and then fuck. At best, I would pick up a few pointers, try them out and see what happens. Worst case scenario, you don't get laid. Ah well. NEXT!
Icedfrappe75 1mo ago
That makes sense, but I’m wondering what would work for the vast majority of men here in most scenarios . Because the standard advice is always escalate, escalate, escalate. Instead of asking the question of her coming back to yours (obviously with an excuse, like a drink etc ) is it better to play a slightly longer game of waiting one date to do it ? Or is it pointless and just ask anyway. I find it hard to predict if a women will be ready to come over/ asd on first date - even if there’s been flirting, vibes, kino , sexual tension during the date.
No-Stress-Cat 2 1mo ago
That's your problem. You're looking for the cookie-cutter solution. There is no Pussy Password. Stop thinking about other men and focus on yourself. They can go get laid on their own. What you want to know is what works for you.
Escalate, escalate, escalate doesn't mean running across all 4 bases like a racehorse. Escalation takes timing and awareness. You bounce a small signal off of her and see what she bounces back. The next signal will be bigger or smaller depending on her reaction.
I think what you need is more insight on body language. By end of the night, you should know if she's ready to lay you or not. If you can't tell, the signals she's bouncing back are going over your head. There's a lot of good resources out there on how to read a woman's body language. I'll give you a quick one as an example:
When you go to give a woman a full frontal hug, she'll do one of two things: stick her ass way out away from you, or press that cooch right up against you. The closer she is to you, the closer she is to sleeping with you. Far away, she's not interested. Right up against, you need to get her to a bedroom ASAP. Somewhere in between, possible, but you have a little bit of work to do. The thing is, that's it's instinctual. They can't help themselves. It's a dead giveaway every time. Learn to read her body language like that, and you will know what the next step should be.
Icedfrappe75 1mo ago
Thanks, Do you have any more resources on reading body language ?
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 3w ago
Just grab a few different books on it.
Most of them will focus on the basics, especially non-sexual. Don't blow that off, as it's also important.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1mo ago
I'm sorry this just sounds like absolute cope
If you two want to fuck then fuck
Women will crawl over glass to have a guy they want
The only reason you shouldn't try is because you don't feel like it
Women aren't "serious" based on not fucking on the first date they are "serious" by their ability to keep men they fuck
Bozza 2 1mo ago
If you have good SMV, not only can you fuck on the first date, the girl will do the leg work for you.
His premise, is bullshit.
There are times not to fuck on the first date. But not fucking on the first date doesn't help you out fucking on the second. In my experience it hinders it.
GeorgeIII 1 1mo ago
I was going to say your coworker is giving good advice, until…
Then I knew your coworker was cooked and probably beta. Yes, you don’t want to give off psycho serial rapist killer vibes on date 1. But girls don’t fuck “good guys”, that’s literally a premise of this entire forum and red pill praxeology.
That being said, it can make sense not to escalate all the way on date 1. If there’s sexual tension, you can exploit it and leave it unfinished, unresolved. That can build up greater desire in the woman if done right, as they often expect you to escalate up up up.
But this strategy runs the risk of her “just not feeling” the next time you meet. And it’s a poor crutch for being afraid to escalate too. And again, only works if there is some kind of tension between you, not if there are 0 sparks.
Icedfrappe75 1mo ago
Yea agree its a fine line in terms of her not feeling it if you didn’t escalate enough
mattyanon Admin 1mo ago
He has a point, in some circumstances.
Opinions differ here: some guys say "get to sex and she'll stick around".
I'll give you my take at the end.
Yes
If hotel or she's travelling, escalate all the way to sex. You won't be getting a second chance.
Willing to come to your place does not mean sex.
Ok.
I see two options:
Option one: Escalate all the way to sex.
Advantages: if she's warmed up to you, aroused, in the mood, this can work. Especially if you seem like a sexy fun safe guy without doing any provider behaviour.
You're also most likely to get sex this way, if that's your aim. Less dates means less opportunities for her to change her mind, meet someone else, fuck up her logistics, change her mind again, etc.
Disadvantages: likely to trigger retroactive ASD and she's less likely to see you again.
Option two (my preferred): Escalate to kissing. Enough to establish mutual interest. Change venues. Make no attempt to get to your bed or hers. Establish "I'd like to continue this sometime".
Date 2 or 3 at yours or hers. Date 2 ideally for FWB, Date 3 for LTR. This has the simple advantage that it doesn't trigger ASD nearly as hard and forms the basis of an ongoing sexual relationship.
What I can't agree with is "establish you as a good guy" and "don't kiss her". Kissing establishes mutual sexual interest and that you are capable of escalating to kissing. Women don't want boring dates to nowhere either (even if it's their fault). And the good guy part: fuck that. You want to be the rogueish devilish bad boy who is TEASING her by pacing things.
SeasonedRP 2 1mo ago
This is great advice, OP. Being able to do it effectively requires a keen ability to read her and the situation. The idea toward delaying making a move isn't to seem like a nice guy. It's to create a devlish bad boy vibe like mattyanon describes and make her crazy with anticipation. It works great when done properly.
Icedfrappe75 1mo ago
Thanks for that this is quite helpful
First-light 2 1mo ago
I think it depends what you want to achieve. If you want to simply fuck, then fuck.
But if you want a LTR, you don't know that much about her by the end of the first date and you also want to be seen as serious. This can mean that there is an advantage to being patient. Let her show her true colours. Is she a bit slutty and wants to put out straight away? Is she more into your wallet than you?
If you want to start a LTR, you want to know what you are starting. Women get less and less honest the more and more invested they get in you. They can be surprisingly honest when they are not yet invested. I would take a while to vet while building the physical tension. If she is in to you and she has a healthy sexual appetite, the tension will build for her and sex will go off like a bomb when it happens. If she is less so, well maybe you needed to know that?
In doing this, I am not advocating turning down a good thing if its handed to you on a plate. You may not want to be serious abut her if she puts out first date but why not enjoy yourself.
Women do expect to be desired. They expect you to want them if you fancy them, so stringing it out too much without a very good reason is sending mixed signals that won't help you except in very unusual cases. Some women really do not feel happy with being fucked by strangers. It is reasonable to allow them this, provided they have healthy desire, all will be well as they loosen up. This thing is very personal in women. You probably don't want a serious girlfriend to be too easy going undiscerning "Well ok Whatsyour name why not, just fill me up" sort of girl and you probably also don't want her to be an OCD dirt-phobe type who wants to bathe and wash herself out after every time you do it. Taking a little time to find out, watching her desire build slowly to yours can pay dividends here and save a lot of wasted time.
Icedfrappe75 1mo ago
Yeah if you fuck them on the first date you probably won’t take them as seriously , and they also won’t feel like it’s a serious relationship. (If the intention is a ltr).
When you say let her show her true colours - are you saying match her energy if she was being extremely slutty on the date. Otherwise wait it out? (If intention is to consider for LTR)