I've been spinning plates for a while now and I really want to test my sanity or if I'm just biased/doing something wrong.
For context I'm 29 and the women are between 22-26.
So the pattern I keep running into: meet a girl somewhere > hook up > she wants to see me again > see her ~once every 10 days. I like treating women well - making them cum, replying to their texts, following through on plans, just being a nice decent guy etc. Past the two-month mark they either start prodding for commitment, or when I act like a total asshole (flakey etc) they generally cut it and move on. The genuinely (attractive) indifferent plate who'll take occasional sex, stay low-maintenance, and not care that I'm spinning others is a unicorn, maybe 1 in 10 if that, and usually only in that state temporarily (slammed with work/school, or fresh off a breakup that gutted her).
What I want narrowed down two hypotheses, which is:
1 Is it me in the early stages? Am I signaling more than I mean to, LARPing boyfriend without intending to, so she reasonably updates toward "this is going somewhere," gets invested, and the commitment-prodding is a rational response to a false read I handed her. i.e. it's a comms/intent error on my end, fixable. But do understand that I am (in my view) playing it as non-commital as possible without coming off like an asshole. So if they treat me well, I will reciprocate their behavior to a degree (2/3 golden rule) but I never do shit for them out of the blue or verbalize any sort of commitment etc.
2 It's value. She'd run indefinite low-investment casual happily — for a hotter/higher-value guy. With me she won't surrender her own sexual strategy because I'm below the threshold where access-on-my-terms is worth it to her, so she either converts to commitment-seeking or exits. >> But even then, in my experience if they really see you as a catch they will just avoid verbalizing any commitment talk for longer if they suspect you will reject it. But eventually they still implode and it ends the same.
Which one matches your field experience? And for those of you who do hold long-running plates with zero commitment pressure — was it #1 you never signled commitment or flat out told her you were not interested in it, #2 she didn't want to lose you regardless of her hurt feelz, or something else?
I guess my question is, is it possible to have attractive, low-maintenance plates, who are not giving you STDs and who will stick around for a 'long' time? Or are those indeed just a temporary unicorns and is the reason you must keep recruiting new plates simply that 'bitches aren't planets, can't spin them forever'?
It's just funny when I hear women talk about 'just' being FB/FWB with a guy but in my experience it rarely ever is, their hamster is just confused/delusional
mattyanon Admin 3w ago
Ok.... once every 10 days isn't enough for most women unless they're married, seeing someone else, etc.
Replying reliably and treating them well - this is enough to trigger BF/GF feelings yes, if she's attracted etc.
You're acting like "boyfriend possibility".
It's honestly a tricky line to walk.
Mattyanon's top tip for you: Be honest and up front about what you want, where it's going and where it's not going. At the point she's interested (eg after kissing, BEFORE SEX) tell her up front that you like her, you plan to keep seeing her, but that you will not be exclusive with her.
You'll lose 50% instantly, and 50% of those that try it will go exactly the same way.
Once you've verbalised it like this, you can see them once a week (max).
And don't always answer their texts same day. That's BF behaviour.
The thing is.... you "just being nice" is exactly the same as "potential boyfriend behaviour".
Hugo_The_Great 3w ago
Would you then agree that for the vast majority of women, casual sex is never truly casual?
Because to me it seems like they can never be content with 'just sex' indefinitely. There is always another angle, either today or tomorrow.
I guess what bothers me the most about their AF/BB strategy, is that no matter how you adapt as a man you can never truly win the prize that your fantasy constructs. You always have to take an L somewhere. Simply because AF/BB is a trade-off and you must abide by those rules.
mattyanon Admin 3w ago
Yep. But not quite for the reasons usually given.
The ways women would be ok with 100% casual is if the guy is super hot. In which case she will want to see him again...
Yep
True.
Well, i'm not sure it's even a loss, because it's not even attainable.
The male fantasy is to have an endless parade of unattached 21 yr old virgins. Even theoretically, that means most men can't have that.
The female fantasy is a provider and a fucker. That's close to realisable, but they all choose the same guy to be the fucker, so that's not going to work.
There just isn't any solution. There is no arrangement that makes everyone even remotely happy. The closest we had was marriage, and that was so unnatural that it ended in dead bedrooms and women pretending they hate sex.
The cold reality is that this is war. War with other men to fuck the best women. And war with women to get the most while sacrificing the least. Women warring with women to get the best men.
It's all competition, and that's all there is to it.
Hugo_The_Great 3w ago
Your SMV has to be so off the charts that she knows without asking that there are other girls and that she not only has to compete for your time but for your dick. You essentially have to flip the script to a degree where you become the gatekeeper of sex. And even then, as someone else pointed out it will be strictly on an on/off again take or leave basis.
I was envious of these 'Chads' for a time because their experiences seemed so far removed from my frame of reference and because of that I had romanticized that casual life a lot. Now that I have spun a bunch of plates myself I see the reality of things more clearly and can see I had made living that way to be much better than it is because I was unaware of the trade-offs involved.
Also was spiteful towards the girls who 'throw away' many of their best years towards these guys (and myself eventually) but now I see that they are often much more miserable than they will portay to the outside world and will hamster their own brokenness and lack of value that makes them chase guys who won't commit.
True.
Precisely, and now that I understand the relatively simple methods to fix your life it's kind of sad to see how bad people play their hand for a variety of reasons and how many end up with suboptimal outcomes. Not that I think there is anything you can do to help people who don't have an innate drive to learn and improve.
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 4w ago
Just about every woman will push for commitment eventually. Even the ones who say they just want some casual fun will do that at some point.
brazilianxof 4w ago
After months of her not doing this, I pushed for, and looked insecure, shit backfired and i had to cut contact to cut losses because it became a pressured/very stressful situation. The best woman i've ever met. Shame.
Hugo_The_Great 4w ago
That was my thinking.
High SMV and not supplicating to them in any way will only make them wait longer with bringing it up and they will be more cautious in how they go about it.
But permanent, hot, low maintenance plates are just an utopia I think
Vermillion-Rx Admin 4w ago
1-2 months is normal for the "what are we"
Seeing bitches every 10 days is too damn long
Stop dating hoes. You fuck a hoe you get a hoe.
I might get shat on for this comment but if you're getting hookup girls that's what they bring to the table. If you want more than meet better women or just keep an infinite rotation
Quality of women is such a thing. That doesn't mean NAWALT. It just means you get what you're finding
Overkill_Engine Endorsed Contributor 3w ago
I think a lot of the antipathy towards that nuance is due to the fools that will seize on any excuse to think they found a unicorn. Some dudes damn near literally have to have that particular flavor of retardation beat out of them.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 3w ago
Precisely
First-light 2 4w ago
This is normal. You don't need to over analyse it. There will always be something you could have not done or could have done better to stop a break up but actually plates almost always break.
Its a crap deal for women. They get no benefit but sex and frankly they know in their DNA that they should be getting comittment and side benefits for sex. It makes them feel crappy. At first they are captivated but then they realise isa all glimmer and no gold. They may be messed up and wanting attention or too busy with education or career to bother with a relationship but these are one hopes for their sake a temporary state.
The guys I have seen who do manage to make it work out long term only make it work out long term on and off on a take or leave basis. They are also usually in the woman's social class or friend group. They are someone she can trust ad the woman is usually a bit weak and not great at relationships. She will look Chad up when she needs some attention. 90+ % of heated affairs that the participants feel they can't live without burn out or implode when they contact reality. Plate spinning is not even that heated.
Its doomed. Its just a mechanism to persuade women into putting out up front rather than after commitment has been secured due to perceived high value in the man and there being no consequences to sluttery in the west today. -Nothing to lose so she will have a punt at some chad attention.
There are no good solutions. Its a limited shallow game and most guys don't want to play it for too long, even though it can give some joy for a time.
mattyanon Admin 3w ago
And I know in my DNA that the side benefits of sex are my company, nothing more.
Hugo_The_Great 4w ago
Hah, this was my ex gf to a tee, you call it weak, I call it a lack of self-respect. Fuck I was bad at vetting just 2 years ago. When I found out about the exes in her current social circles and other hoe activities I noped the fuck out of there.
I figured. It is what it is. I'll just keep fucking around until I find a girl that I'm very compatible with and if she's LTR worthy I'll go that route. Spinning plates until I'm 60 seems like a bottomless void.