27M bartender at a high volume sports bar in a major city in the USA. Tall, model level looks (not trolling or trying to be arrogant but I am a former model), white/chad archetype.
Not trying to brag but giving full context: I get hit on constantly at work. Girls flirting, laughing at my jokes, and I get at least one number per shift without even asking. They literally give ME their number.
Here's the problem - in 3 months working there, I haven't closed with a single one. Not one. Every plate I am currently spinning was obtained via cold approach at bars AS A CUSTOMER/Hinge/Tinder.
Is it just girls being tipsy and regretting it after? Because it's weird as fuck that they'd go out of their way to give me their number but then it fizzles out.
Example: last weekend got two cute blonde 20-somethings' numbers. We texted during and right after my shift, decent back and forth, then... nothing. Conversation dies. Deleted both numbers to move on.
I've been bartending for years and this keeps happening at this specific bar. Clearly I have the "on paper" stats - the initial attraction is there. So what's the issue?
Is my texting game shit? Am I not escalating fast enough? Not pushing for meetups soon enough?
Need actionable advice here because this pattern is getting frustrating.
wonderman73 1mo ago
With bar girls you should be trying to smash that night otherwise they will forget who you are the next day
mattyanon Admin 2mo ago
At the bar you are the high status guy because you have contextual status right there and then in the bar.
The next day you're a bartender, which I am sorry to say is not a high status job, and you're competing with 500 other guys blowing up her phone.
Managing this transition is tricky.
One thing though: numbers mean nothing. If she gives you her number, she often has expectations of exactly what happens next, and she flakes when it doesn't go exactly to plan.
Much better is to agree a plan and a date BEFORE numbers.
Challenge them a bit....... "Can I have your number?" / "When are you free to go on a date?"
Agree the date and the location, THEN swap numbers.
Well, what happens with the texting? Are you moving things forward or being their texting buddy?
probably
probably
probably
Hugo_The_Great 2mo ago
Dude, this is just how women are (unfortunately).
Until you've at least banged them once, preferable multiple times, they just don't give a fuck.
Up to that point, all men are just NPCs and background noise to them. Especially in high turnover environments (clubs and especially dating apps). If they get to know you through short interactions over a longer time, it's different (school, work).
They are just super flaky. And it can be because of 1,000 reasons. Nervousness, a cold, their period, a bad day, an ex, they just wanted attention etc.
That's the sucky thing and why you should always be approaching and trying to close asap. Cast a net as wide as possible, and always try to convert your leads while still warm.
You can do some A/B testing but realize that you will need a shit ton of data to make any sort of educated guess in terms of what works/doesn't work, simply because your dataset will contain a ton of useless data. Do not try to ascribe meaning or fault to something you did every time. All you can do is be attractive, fun, approach and close sooner rather than later.
dreams 2mo ago
If he could cast a wider net he would. He asked for advice specifically about the girls hitting on him at the bar and how to convert those. How do you suppose he cast a wider net while he’s working?
Converting leads while they are warm has been brought up 2x already in this thread.
You said earlier in my reply that attractiveness is all that matters and text communication doesn’t but here you just said being fun, approaching and closing sooner rather than later are all that matters…
If he’s texting girls while not being fun and not closing over text fast …. Do his texting skills still not matter?
You regurgitated everything that has already been said in this thread and dismissed others people’s advice but then agreed with their advice implicitly in another post.
Are you starving for attention or do you not realize what you’re saying/doing? I don’t get what the gimmick is here… what’s the point of what you’re doing?
Hugo_The_Great 1mo ago
Hurdurr obviously don't be autistic over text.
As has been said many times, texting is for logistics only. No need to ask about how her day was or try to be funny. That shit is optional after you've been cracking her for a while.
I do agree with you, that it is weird he seems unable to convert these opportunities to a date. Especially since they approach him. But what you glance over is the fact that he does already have plates through OLD/other bars. Data that counters all your logic. It's entirely possible it was a streak of bad luck.
And again, to come back to you mentioning you would be able to figure out where he went wrong during texting is like me looking back at some trader's portfolio with the benefit of hindsight and tell him where he made mistakes. Doesn't work like that unless he's making rookie mistakes, which I doubt.
Keep texting as short as possible, to the point, convert to sex asap. Basically all you should aim to do is minimize the time window and amount of words you used as that will only fuck you up.
dreams 1mo ago
Yeah you’re an idiot that’s starved for attention. Thanks for confirming.
throwaway415 1 2mo ago
Are you trying to smash on the same night or following up with them like a day later?
If you're waiting too long then that might be what's killing their interest. Bitches are retarded and have the attention span of a dead squirrel. If you don't close right away they get cold feet fast
I saw you posted that you tried to close with the blondes after your shift. How long after they gave you their number was that? An hour? 4 hours?
If these bitches are out partying they're probably swimming in an ocean of dicks and yours is only one of many, so you gotta seize the opportunity very quickly or do something radical to set yourself apart from all the rest.
dreams 2mo ago
When I used to go club hopping this would happen to me. I would get their number and they would disappear after (even after grinding and humping on the dance floor). I would push to close the same night and that seemed to work better but it was still like pulling teeth. Maybe some other guys had better success but didn't really work for me.
In your case, I think it may be something similar. Girls get drunk, want to show off and get attention, get the attention but the next day they got their "fill" so to speak and when you are texting them the vibe is completely different.
Have you tried to fuck them the night of? Tell them I get off at 2 am for example and I'm down to meet up. If that doesn't work, keeping the texting to a minimum as you want the "high" of seeing you in that power position of being the bartender to parlay into you meeting up best you can.
Honestly fuck texting too, way too much time for them to sit there and analyze your texts and find something wrong with what you said. Try calling them since you already have their phone number if anything.
Another thought: post your entire conversation and I can probably break down exactly where it went wrong because the information supplied is basic and doesn't explain exactly what happened in the conversation.
So far we got:
A. Girls see you in a power position (bartender) B. They think your hot while you are serving drinks and being the boss so they want to fuck you C. They give you the number D. You text and the conversation fizzles out and goes nowhere.
Seems like the breakdown occurs sometime after C. So I would focus there. It may just be a hard situation to "fix" and the chances of conversion are low. It's kind of like online dating... you sift through hundreds of girls just to fuck one. Just because they give you the phone number doesn't mean that conversion number is going to be high. Even when I get the phone number off dating sites the conversion to fucking isn't high. Lots of flakes.
Hugo_The_Great 2mo ago
Dude, you really believe the content of his texts are what is causing these women to flake? They're women ffs.
We can analyze his texts all we want and say his game could've been tighter here or there, but ultimately, that's hardly ever going to make the difference if we're being real. 99% of the time how a girl responds positively to your messages it's just based on how attracted she already is. Not because you sent some magical text msg. And when they respond negatively, it's because they just don't give enough of a fuck, not because your text was bad per se. And we try to assign meaning to their current emotional state where there usually is none. Like a trader using TA to predict where the market is moving next.
dreams 2mo ago
No one suggested a magical text can get in her pants, but you can fuck up attraction by what you say.
I had a 6’2 chad colleague who always got the initial attention from women. Once he opened his mouth he lost attractiveness. I had another colleague who could kill it if you just went off his physical characteristics, but he is weird and has zero game and thus resorts to fucking girls lower on the totem pole.
It absolutely can make a difference in whether you get laid.
If you text some generic shit, and talk about boring shit she’s going to take you off the “exciting, want to fuck” pile to the “boring, secondary pile”. If you say some weird shit she’s gonna be like “ick” something’s off with him.
You’re saying OP isn’t attractive enough to fuck these girls and that’s the only reason. That doesn’t make sense. Eventually some girl that he was way better looking than would come along to get boned. Not one single girl like that has came along?
It can be any one of these factors:
Text game Just wanted attention Or he’s not attractive enough
The last one doesn’t make sense… you would think one of them would come along to want to get banged…. He should be attractive enough to bang one of them if he’s a bartender.
It’s absolutely incredible how the internet has given people the ability to type some misguided dismissive opinion while simultaneously acting as though they are the expert on the subject.
magushero18 2mo ago
Just relax
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 2mo ago
Escalate faster. If they just get off on your attention, they'll decline. If they actually want to fuck, they'll fuck.
Roissy/Heartiste had a bunch of good shit on texting. See if you can dig it up at the archive at Heartiste.org.
A few brief tips:
1) keep it short, and send her fewer messages than she sends you (ideally roughly a 2:3 ratio).
2) the Jumbotron test: if you aren't willing to have your message shown on the Jumbotron in a crowded arena in which everyone knows it's from you, then don't send it.
3) many people say keep texting to logistics only, but I find that to be false. It might be a way to curb the guys who go too hard and heavy, or worse, too lovey-dovey. But I always found an occasional "I can't wait to fuck your brains out" (with a woman I've already fucked, mind you) to work well.
4) don't be a pen-pal. Escalate. Filter out the ones who just want attention.
Also, I frequently had better results by trying to escalate in the moment rather than getting phone numbers. Even if you can't leave work, try to capitalize on their mood that night if at all possible.
dreams 2mo ago
2) is golden. I've heard or read that before and it makes sense in my own dealings.
If anything you say would be embarrassing to share with a lot of people then it probably is going to make you look weak in front of her.
Although I would err on the side of caution with that advice. I mean, I'd be embarrassed to let people see my convos where I text girls "let me hit it". Sometimes being direct works. I would think that advice is mainly so that you don't say anything that makes you look pathetic.
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 2mo ago
Roissy. He wrote tons of great shit.
You'd be embarrassed that they'd know you were a heterosexual man trying to have sex with a woman?
dreams 2mo ago
Yeah, I remember his work I read his book.
Everyone has areas of their life they keep private to certain people, and for many people, romantic or sexual dealings fall into that category.
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 2mo ago
Roissy had a book?
dreams 2mo ago
My fault, i quickly asked Gemini (AI) who that was earlier and it said it was a nickname for Rollo Tomassi lol
I think Roissy may have been a contributor on Chateau Heartiste? I remember reading something similar before about your second bullet point that's where my comment came from (I thought it came from rational male). I didn't Chateau had multiple authors....
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 2mo ago
Wild. That's wrong, wrong, WRONG.
back before there was a Red Pill Subreddit, before Keoni Galt even wrote the seminal post "Game Is The Red Pill", there were lots of game blogs. The biggest 3 were the 3 Rs: Roosh, Roissy, Rollo.
Rollo is the only one who is still around in a meaningful way.
Roissy got doxxed and turned his blog over to others, and it became Chateau Heartiste. Heartiste was the main contributor, but they didn't distinguish who wrote what post usually.
Roosh kind of had a mental breakdown when his sister died, and much like King Solomon when he wrote the Book of Ecclesiastes, realized that all his life so far had been meaningless. He took down just about everything he ever wrote, and now it's difficult to find any of it.
dreams 2mo ago
wow Roissy got doxxed ? didn't know that ... that sucks
I'm re-reading his archived posts from the beginning. I've read a few articles here and there that were posted in r/theredpill back in the day.
Sad on Roosh's part ... but from what I remember Roissy's and Rollo's hit more home with me. Any idea where I can read even a little bit of Roosh's material again?
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 1mo ago
Every time I give it a cursory try, I can only find a little. I haven given it a real hard try in years (time + other priorities).
For all that Roissy and Rollo were better overall, I'll always be grateful to Roosh as he was my gateway to this. His PUA blog back in 2000-2002 helped me go from AFC to burgeoning mega-player in under two years, and I looked him back up when my marriage went rocky about a decade later.
Lone_Ranger 3 2mo ago
Number hunting is a losers game. Here's why:
Women have always been interested in attention and validation (A&V). There are biological reasons for this (without A&V from males, women would die in the wild). So they are programed to seek out as much A&V as possible. Women have never been the romantic of the species, men are romantic. Women ideally want unlimted A&V, sex with as many top quality males as possible (slutting around) and unlimited free shit. It was thus when we lived in the caves, and it is thus now.
However - slutting around would mean that they would end up without a partner, and if that happened, they would die. So they reluctantly pair bonded.
Social media, OLD and smartphones have provided an unmanagbale amount of A&V. they are basically high all the time. They have a much lower need of sex than they do of A&V. So the modern woman will basically fuck now and again (only top level chads) but will hand out their numbers like crazy, because they know it will make their phone go bing. They need chads for getting railed, and orbiters for A&V.
The mistake that you are making is number hunting - because you are allowing the to transition you into orbiter role right from the start. You are allowing yourself to be miscategorised.
Here's a suggestion - next time you are flirting with a woman, try NOT asking for her number. go for the same night close. If you are as chadly, you can do it. Hell, I've never modelled, but I have done more same night close that I can count.
If she tries to give you her number - don't accept it. Make a joke about it.
Say something like - 'Oh my, you're the 7th girl this night that wants to give me her number.... how can you make yourself more memorable? We close at 2am - do you want to meet me tonight after I close?'
Push it. Weed out the time wasters. A woman that wont fuck you on that night is not interested. When women are interested, they will jump through hoops and break all the rules. When they are not interestd in sex, they'll give you their number and use you as an orbiter to add to their roster of texters that make their phones go bing so that they feel that they have more A&V than their best friend
dreams 2mo ago
Great advice, nip it in the bud before they even allow the virus to spread. Plus, she'll respect you for it too and will make it more likely that she wants to fuck since it adds to your value.
Meet me here at 2 am or fuck off.
I wish I had advice like this when I was younger.
Lone_Ranger 3 2mo ago
Exactly. 'Always be closing'. Always push it. You need to find a way to calibrate it, to make it charming.
But there should always be a hint of danger. A hint of a cad. You need to let them know that you are not 'a nice guy'. Developing game is not about a script, it is about knowing when to smile, how to hold eye contact for a long time without flinching, how to not chase. The thing that repulses men in women (being a slut) excites women very much. If she doens't think that you are banging all kinds of chicks all the time, she will not bang you.
So if a woman gives you her number, unasked (like OP) you need to act like this happens all the time, whenver you go out....and do a reverse uno on her.
Be fun about it, be playful. But defo give her the idea that this happens all the time, and that she is just one of many, and why the hell should you even entertain her? Casual, flippant, humerous, indifferent.
Top answers to a woman giving you her number, unprompted....
"Now why would I want the number of a little cutie pie that really ought to be at home in bed in her pyjammas a few hours ago?" big smile, hold eye contact, let her say why...
If she says 'so you can call me sometime' .... 'Now why would I want to do that? So I can tell you a good night story?' smile.
Or
"Why would I need to call you? I've got you right here, whisper what it is that you want in my ear."
If she doesn't whisper that she wants you to fuck her, you have your answer. She is a time waster.
No-Stress-Cat 2mo ago
Bartender = Smile and Flash Titties = Free/Discount Drinks