She KNEW it wasn't an LTR. Yet she was treating it like one and I'm partially to blame at least for the incongruences in my behavior early on. She's furious or hurt because I talked with a few women in front of her. She's clearly not okay, her actions speak otherwise. I think the wisdom of following a woman's actions and not her words would apply here.
I've been putting much thought into this, and I think I'm going to reach out in the morning to talk with her in person. I'd also do this if it were a guy. I want to understand what the fuck is going on. I want to identify if she's playing a twisted power game to get me to invest, or if she genuinely ejected herself. I warned her that she may get hurt if we kept going, but she begged for my dick. I wish remind her of our pillow talk where she said she'd "be around for 1 year" and how I doubted that.
In case that's not enough for you guys, I'd still like to have people I can text and meet up. Their presence does help with my extroversion, even if there's no connection there. I know (some) of them appreciate me. I NEED to know if she's hamstering reasons to blame me and hate me for all of this. Let this be a red pill moment for me.
UPDATE: She just texted me asking if I was hanging out with the group today and that "we really need to talk." Called her up, asked how she was doing, and got an overview that the convo would be about Saturday night. She even said "it's weird that I haven't texted you in a week." (Maybe she was tryna get me to chase?) I replied that I was giving her space. Proceeded to make her laugh once over the phone, and will meet her tomorrow to talk.
SeasonedRP 10mo ago
I wouldn't do anything of the sort. I'd just continue as you have but not rub other women in her face. Of course she'll react negatively to that.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 10mo ago
You knew she liked you, and you just wanted an easy lay. This is a natural consequence of that.
Yes you can set your boundaries and say no relationship but women are feels-oriented. Then on top of that you did a bunch of relationship things, met the fam, etc.
Then you all talked about your emotions etc.
She sees you talking to women who are obviously numerous SMV points above her and you were her first (allegedly).
This is all rather predictable. She has no abundance (which is rare for a woman, because she's so low SMV) and so she's having a freakout.
Women are driven by feels, it doesn't matter what words come out of her mouth. If she's angry, her emotions are her reality. If she's happy, her emotions are her reality.
It doesn't matter what you told her or what you or she said, you are driving a type of relationship that is creating certain feels and now you're stuck with it.
It sounds like it is doomed to fail, it's always just your turn anyway with casual sex because women will ALWAYS meet a guy that they want to pursue for a relationship. It's just a matter of when.
As many have mentioned before you should have let this fizzle weeks ago. Good on you for getting evidence of consent but you're still playing around with fire and predicable outcomes.
This is precisely why you should not go for women you're not actually that attracted to unless it's a situation that you for sure know will be a ONS such as vacation etc.
Stick to women that actually turn you on. It will be easier to manage them because you won't have this weird dynamic where you low key don't think she's worthy and then game near her etc.
imtranscending 10mo ago
I'm really not sure what I should've done here. I think I made the right decision, but it wasn't good probably because of the circumstances and my lack of attraction to her.
I see that now, I thought I was just being nice. The girl would tell her mother about me, etc. I wonder what she'd be saying now lol. I did make a great first and second impression on the family, so we'll see.
You guys have been so clearly predicting this (minus the rape allegations against me). You guys knew I was going to keep gaming for something better.. her getting upset just seemed inevitable.
Is she gonna be alpha widowed from this? (I did have a small beta moment during the pillow talk, and I've been told on here that I was in her frame when I did go out to dinner with the fam?) Also this sounds so AWALT. Humans are emotional creatures in large capacity, men less so. More AWALT discussion I'll be responding to here, but I can't even have a logical conversation with her about this, is there not a woman capable of this? If that's the case then my goodness they're more emotional than I thought.
UPDATE: She just texted me asking if I was hanging out with the group today and that "we really need to talk." Called her up, asked how she was doing, and got an overview that the convo would be about Saturday night. She even said "it's weird that I haven't texted you in a week." (Maybe she was tryna get me to chase?) I replied that I was giving her space. Proceeded to make her laugh once over the phone, and will meet her tomorrow to talk.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 10mo ago
Probably not fuck a 3.5. also shouldn't have done anything with her parents or talked about emotions. HUGE casual sex no-go zone
Oh. She's definitely gonna talk about you. And not in a good way. Cause now her parents probably ask about you.
Limited mileage when people go nuclear on you. Your first impression will be wiped out if she goes nuclear.
Yet. We said she'd accuse you if she goes nuclear, and she hasn't yet, but she might, if you keep this relationSHIT going.
Yeah we knew you'd keep gaming for better, and that's partly why we recommended you didn't pursue
Not sure. Most girls are imprinted by their first. But you've also done some beta stuff so who knows honestly
Not many women are and even the ones that can stay logical do so in a solipsistic way
You should find the exit ramp for this relationship before shit smacks the fan
Overkill_Engine 2 10mo ago
Yeah OP brought this upon himself, and trying to do the whole closure/discussion song and dance is just going to be digging the fucking hole even fucking deeper.
Probably better off ghosting her and just realizing that if the genders were flipped, ghosting would be far kinder behavior than what he could expect from a woman in a situation where he caught feels for a woman that only saw him as an orbiter.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 10mo ago
Yeah, op would be better off just sincerely wishing her well and just being friends then whatever this is
I once fucked a girl s few months ago that I was extremely 50/50 on. I invited her over one day, we fucked after she asked me to fuck her, but I think she sensed that I wasn't too into her and she had a freakout. Said I "tried to force myself on her" "used her" etc
Then she bitched at me for an hour in public (I was trying to dodge a false allegation by hearing her out and got her to admit she was basically retarded)
Fast forward 2 months and she approaches me again and says she misses me etc and we have some great conversations (mostly to make sure I dodge a false) and then at some point I tell her I just want to be friends cause she's obviously trying to kiss me
Like OP the girl i banged claimed to be a past rape victim and she had a freakout over sex. Dodged a bullet even though she was the one that asked me to fuck her to begin with, and now I can finally breathe
OP should eject graciously before his girl goes nuclear, especially with all the bdsm stuff she's gonna retroactively view as problematic if she keeps seeing him game other chicks
Bozza 10mo ago
Vermillion has covered the key points pretty well imo.
What I will say is do not get sucked into this. Because if you're not careful you will be.
From your post it seems like you're starting to get emotionally invested. I'm not going to say you're getting oneitis because that clearly isn't the case.
You're clearly a decent guy, and I can sense an element of feeling sorry/guilty for her in this post - which is why you are drawn to speak to her again.
Mark my words son, that will be your downfall. You will get sucked in and played by your own ego.
imtranscending 10mo ago
There is some emotional investment here man. I appreciate you hearing me out and being positive about my character. I won't fuck someone where my feelings aren't reciprocated if I think it will hurt them. I'd been on those dates and had been ghosted or misled. They were just dates, I can't imagine feeling through this as a woman who put out for a guy.
I held out from doing anything with her for a while because of that. Despite talking it over with her many times, I gave in for the both of us.. now this is my result.
I do feel guilty. I'd just decided on my values, and was gonna exploring life without making people worse off. I did help her overcome her trauma of blowjobs and other shit.. she said "I was thinking of myself as asexual and couldn't see myself doing this with anyone." So there's that at least to say the least.
UPDATE: She just texted me asking if I was hanging out with the group today and that "we really need to talk." Called her up, asked how she was doing, and got an overview that the convo would be about Saturday night. She even said "it's weird that I haven't texted you in a week." (Maybe she was tryna get me to chase?) I replied that I was giving her space. Proceeded to make her laugh once over the phone, and will meet her tomorrow to talk.
dongking 10mo ago
She is not a guy. Correct? i.e. there is nothing logical to discuss. Only feelz. She's pissed off. Nothing you say or do will change that anyways.
Do not reach out.
You already know what's going on. She's pissed because you flirted with hotter women. Let her be angry and keep your mouth shut.
See this as a good excuse/reason to let this whole thing die out and game hot women. This will also save you from any false allegations, as there's multiplie witnesses that saw her get angry because you spoke to other women etc. Use this to your advantage.
imtranscending 10mo ago
I don't feel guilt from gaming other women (because I made my intentions so fucking clear). I even said I'd let her know when I fuck other women. I feel some guilt from this whole out and her feeling this way, I don't know what I could've done better once this whole thing started.
It just kept getting steeper the more we did, kissing and fingering (finally made her squirt about 7 times, and is different from an orgasm apparently). At that point, she wanted me to fuck her, I'd probably have some guilt of "leading her on" if I didn't, so I made things crystal clear. "This is not a relationship." and "This is fun."
Well not sure she herself got angry, it was the autistic friend having the freak out. It will still save me because if I keep trying rekindle this dying ember, it may get huge and burn me badly. So the sooner it dies, the sooner everyone moves on.
UPDATE: She just texted me asking if I was hanging out with the group today and that "we really need to talk." Called her up, asked how she was doing, and got an overview that the convo would be about Saturday night. She even said "it's weird that I haven't texted you in a week." (Maybe she was tryna get me to chase?) I replied that I was giving her space. Proceeded to make her laugh once over the phone, and will meet her tomorrow to talk.
RedPirate751 10mo ago
Man, we warned you about this shit a long time ago. You've been playing with fire by fucking with this girl. She has reasons (in her mind) why this is all your fault - you knew her issues, you played along with the relationship shit for awhile, and she feels like the rug was pulled. This is NOT spinning a plate and it never was because you never established the nature of the relationship with her. It's not a FWB thing unless you are both aware of it. Understand that things might make sense to you because your a man, and you logically communicated those things to her, but in her mind they don't matter. Women operate based on feelings, and you made her feel bad.
Right now, idk what to tell you. Given this girl's history there could be legal fallout if she goes truly apeshit and wants to burn it all down.
imtranscending 10mo ago
Despite me making it super clear it wasn't an LTR. I guess I enjoyed her company too well, and I was being nice by hanging out with her family.
I said it was, and I said I don't feel anything from physical contact nor an attachment to people. But guess I changed the nature of it all.
Wow. I assume she's responsible for her actions and feelings right.. and hamstered me being at the center of everything. Maybe she'd say "damn, he was right."
I know, isn't that the risk with every woman though? I haven't said anything to her, it's just been radio silence from the both of us. Should I reach out again at some point to check in on her? I suspect if I do that, she'll rehamster everything and be like "you know what, I don't feel alright. He took advantage of me." I think the best thing that can happen is we happen to bump into each other in person.
UPDATE: She just texted me asking if I was hanging out with the group today and that "we really need to talk." Called her up, asked how she was doing, and got an overview that the convo would be about Saturday night. She even said "it's weird that I haven't texted you in a week." (Maybe she was tryna get me to chase?) I replied that I was giving her space. Proceeded to make her laugh once over the phone, and will meet her tomorrow to talk.
RedPirate751 10mo ago
Alright, imma spell this out for you as simply as I can. What you told her doesn't matter. Your words don't matter to her AT ALL. You subcommunicated to her that this could be headed in a relationship direction. You met her family. You can say that you told her over and over what the nature of the relationship was. You can logically explain it to her in the clearest of terms. It doesn't matter because that is not how women communicate. Men are direct, we say what we mean and we convey information clearly and concisely. Women communicate covertly. Rollo has a whole freaking chapter on this shit that you clearly didn't read.
When she accuses you of assault because you had kinky sex and she FEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLZZZZZZZZZZ like she was betrayed, it will be entirely and sadly predictable.
mattyanon Admin 10mo ago
Right.
Still, you have to treat a FWB like a FWB. And chatting up other women in front of her probably isn't fair.
Some women are not cut out for non-exclusive.
She will not be able to explain it in reasonable terms.
All this talk is POINTLESS because she feels. You talk, she feels. She feels, she talks. It's all about how she feels. Words will not help this.
This is standard shit..... women fall for men. It happens. There's nothing to discuss...... you patiently TELL her how things are between you, you tell her you care about her, and you do not negotiate. You also use words like "this isn't for everybody". You make it clear you like her, you hope it works, but if it doesn't then that's ok too, no hard feelings.
Of course she's hamstering reasons to blame and hate you for all this. This is what women do. She feels and she holds YOU responsible. This is normal.
I don't think asking her for explanations will help one fucking iota.
imtranscending 10mo ago
The consensus on this from everyone here is so strong. Do they feel that much? Are AWALTing here.. is this deathly true?
The next time I try this, or right now with this girl? People are saying this is dangerous and I should let it die by whatever means.
How liable am I here? Everyone's saying I fucked up by being incongruent with my words "this is not a relationship." I was just enjoying our time together as friends with physical intimacy. The meeting the family thing seemed like a bad idea. I didn't seek it out, but if an acquaintances parents invited me out for dinner, I'd go. I'm just nice like that.
UPDATE: She just texted me asking if I was hanging out with the group today and that "we really need to talk." Called her up, asked how she was doing, and got an overview that the convo would be about Saturday night. She even said "it's weird that I haven't texted you in a week." (Maybe she was tryna get me to chase?) I replied that I was giving her space. Proceeded to make her laugh once over the phone, and will meet her tomorrow to talk.
mattyanon Admin 10mo ago
Some women listen and can be somewhat rationalised and negotiated with, up to a point. But she isn't in that category. We know that because you said what things were and she didn't listen. Therefore she follows the standard playbook.
That's your call to make, not ours.
Well. Legally: not at all. Morally: muddy waters. You were honest, but women delude themselves.
Well. That seems clear to me, but girls are gonna girl.
Girls judge by actions, just like you should. In her head, if you agree to meet her family you have agreed to cross into "more than FWB" territory. You def shouldn't have done this without overt clarification on the nature of the relationship. I can see her confusion here, but equally she has entered into a covert contract: "if he meets my family he is more than a FWB". She's being a bit manipulative here, but equally you should have seen this one coming a mile off.
MentORPHEUS Senior Endorsed 10mo ago
I think this was a precipitating blunder on your part. One of the principles of plate management is giving her the ability to maintain a sense of deniable plausibility even though it's mutually clear that you are not an exclusive couple. By talking with, I presume you meant at least low key flirting with other women right in front of her? That's really in-her-face. For this to fly in ANY plate relationship, the man would have to represent an extraordinary Chad, and the woman would need to feel an unusual level of self-confidence and DGAF for a woman. In my own plate relationships, I worked from the assumption that neither was true, therefore it would be autistic not to know or caddish not to care that this would amount to choosing to knowingly hurt the woman's feelings.
My approach to plate relationships is based on a trading value for value model. She is delivering on the sex that I want out of the pairing. To keep the plate spinning, I deliver some of what she wants from it. Every woman is different, so by accurately reading what each desires and responds to, you can min/max your deliverables tailored to each plate and therefore not get sucked into giving full-girlfriend levels of boyfriend-like behaviors and expectations.
The "trick" I figured out, was to spontaneously deliver bits of what she wants, in the time and manner of MY choosing, rather than reactively to her resorting to asking, complaining, whining, bratting etc after a span of you delivering nothing she wants. This way, it feels effortless and even enjoyable to you, and her emotional/comfort cup doesn't run dry. Men are wired to get an endorphin rush for making their sex partner happy, so use/enjoy that on YOUR terms wherever possible and make the plate relationship work for both parties during the time you're together.
Then when you are apart, you're free to do whatever including talking to (fucking) other women, without obligation or remorse to the others in your roster.
imtranscending 10mo ago
It seems that would require experience.
Good plate outline here.
Overkill_Engine 2 10mo ago
You are about to attempt to negotiate with someone that did not reason themselves into the position they are in.
I get it, you don't want the plate to break. But this was always one of the potential outcomes. Own it. Accept it.
And realize that getting into a verbal spar with a woman about her feelings, whether you agree with the reason for them or not, is usually one of the biggest wastes of time that a man can engage in at minimum.
Intrepid_Place53900 10mo ago
My FWB, when they caught feelz, I would move on. My view was, they'd go ballistic eventually, drama etc. So, I stopped it quick. I have zero tolerance for drama
Her hamster will find 100's of ways to blame you, you can't argue or reason with a hamster.
This is a girl who will typically blame all the previous guys she had (relationships) with, or her hamster said it was a relationship. It's always their fault.
It's a learning lesson for you.