long-ish post, but worth the read imo (tldr at bottom)
recently been thinking about the 'law of diminishing returns' and how it applies to almost every aspect of life, including girls. us guys mainly want sex (amoungst other things), and the difference in the 'sex experience' between an 8 and a 10 isn't huge... but the difference in effort required to get with and or keep a 10 (instead of an 8 or 7) is pretty damn big.
I know a lot of guys might say 10's aren't super hard to get... bullshit. go approach a fucking bombshell Instagram model with 250k+ followers in a Vegas club at a NBA basketball player's table and dancing behind the dj booth and let me know how that goes for you. even if you had god-tier looks and excellent game you'd at best likely have a 1 or 2% close rate.
theres a guy in a niche of the pua community who to says/teaches that to get with a 9's and 10's your best course of action is to host photoshoots for these girls (for their Instagrams), find someone willing to let you use their mansion, find photographers willing to shoot for free, and then DM hundreds of hot girls on Instagram and invite them to the photoshoot... at the shoot network/make friends with the girls that showed up then rinse and repeat and become friends with these girls (not friend zoned, but actual friends), then use these social circles you've created to meet/be introduced to their hot friends... THAT would be a warm open with a ton of social proof, therefore increasing your odds of getting with 9's and 10's (increase, not guarantee). also your instagam needs to be impeccable, at least 20 perfessional photos in high status locations. constant stories of eating at high end restraunts with girls, being at tables in high end clubs (dont pay for the tables, just network with people who do), stories and pictures being on boats with girls who are having fun etc...
that being said this strategy seems like a HUUGE time/effort investment to put into increasing your girls from 7-8's to 9-10's. not just the monumental amount of time setting up the events, but also maintaining possibly dozens of female friends via text and regular meetups.
now onto the girls themselves. dealing with an ACTUAL 10's hypergamy would be like trying to corral Godzilla. A 10 is going to be getting hit up constantly by guys with blue check marks, athletes, actors, oil tycoons, you name it. and keeping a 10 loyal to you without being famous/very rich is going to be difficult. you are going to have to have constant and stellar social proof, solid frame control, you'll have to be at least to a degree spending a fair amount of money on her, gotta have great fashion and body composition, strong masculinity, rock her world in bed everytime, and if you let off the gas pedal even for a second you are rolling the dice on if she'll decide to go for the BBD (bigger better deal) because her options of high value men are endless.
also hot girls tend to (not always) have boring 'basic bitch' personalities, and having an intelligent conversation with them can be very difficult at times.
ANYWAYS, all that being said, I want to get some honest opinions from you guys (esp if you have experience with legit 9's and 10's). is the juice worth the squeeze? all the effort, time, and money spent to smash or LTR a 10, when the actual experience of the sex is only marginally better than a 7 or 8?
btw this isn't a cope. not a incel, ive been spinning multiple quality plates for the last two years and have ltr'd and hooked up with many hotties (not bragging just proof this isnt cope)
tldr; law of diminishing returns strongly applies to getting with and/or keeping a 10/10 girl... is the juice worth the squeeze?? or are you much better off by making yourself attractive enough to consistently get with 7's and 8's (when the sex is basically almost as good as a 9 or 10 with a lot less headache involved)?
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Growing 2y ago
Women are women.
I've read all the comments so far and I can only say that.
A 7 that doesn't stress you (why should you even get stressed?) Is way better than a 10 you worry about.
If you are constantly worrying about losing a bitch, she is not yours anyway.
Btw, she is not yours, it's your turn.
Fuck a 10, go back to your normal life.
Fuck a 7, go back to your normal life.
If she wants you back, you'll know.
Musicgoon425 2y ago
This is a fantastic example of shaky frame and pedestalization. The fact that you feel that some women are harder to get shows that you don't see yourself as the prize.
Numbering systems are for incels and losers. I'm binary. Either I would go there or not. That's all that matters.
Don't tell us it's not a cope when we all know it is. Work on your frame and lift.
Jester 2y ago
do you realize what you just said? basically just said a literal victoria secret runway model is no harder to get than a 300 pound ugly girl with armpit hair... really my guy?
"The fact that you feel that some women are harder to get shows that you don't see yourself as the prize."
sexual market value is an actual thing. if you think a Victoria secret runway model would get with an average looking 5'8" guy making $40,000 a year just because he "lifts and has frame", over taking the 6'3" Chad who's a hedge fund manager with a yacth and girls fawning over him. then your understanding of hypergamy and SMV are way off
coolsocks00 1 2y ago
You are both half right on this one.
Just like how SMV matters and hypergamy is real; a girl will sleep with, and have a relationship with, an average guy with a good frame.
A model will get money thrown after her by guys with status (dont conflate with alpha) all day. An average but exciting guy who doesnt treat her like she is a queen will sometimes be way more attractive to her, literally because of scarcity.
You dont have to change your game to go after a 10, as musicgoon says. Is it harder because of reasons you list? Probably
Jester 2y ago
"a girl will sleep with, and have a relationship with, an average guy with a good frame." oh I 100% agree with you on that. but my post is talking about 10's. im talking about the literal top tier girls. the ones with millions of followers on the explorer page on Instagram. talking about Wilhelmina models etc... they have access to the literal TOP tier guys in the world, the guys who are the 'hypergamy grand slam"; rich af, tall af, hot af, and alpha af. so im sorry to say an 'average guy with good frame' doesn't stand a chance when she's getting DM's from Jason Momoa and the likes. don't care how good his frame is, she ain't stooping down to an average guy with good frame when she has the top .0001% guys at her beck and call
Intrepid_Place53900 2y ago
The hotter and younger the girl. The less RMV she will have is my observation. So, LTR, RMV is an absolute requirement, why get a LTR without very good RMV? Don't, just pump her as a plate.
Also, these type of girls, near 10, typically have no skills, they are boring. Which makes sense, they don't have to do anything to get guys. Now, I have known some very intelligent 10 women, but they were so High maintenance and attitude. Not worth it. for me
sum it up, as it's possible, very unlikely. Not worth the risk/reward in lost time.
coolsocks00 1 2y ago
How the fuck would a 10 be worth even thinking about then?? Lol
I think youre overestimating the ease at which these girls find great guys. Its not like she has a instagram dm filter to show her only the genuine alphas and removing the flood of idiots driving her mentally insane with their simping.
Jester 2y ago
right, most average girls don't find 'hypergamy home runs' that why they have to settle for dual mating strategy (alpha fucks, beta bucks). because it's hard to find a guy who is the total package, hot, alpha, rich, have status and willing to settle down with them... but super hot girls don't have nearly as hard of a time. look at Miranda Kerr, former victorias secret model. her only value to the world was being hot. she got wifed up by Orland bloom, and now is married to the billionaire Snapchat founder, who might I add is 6'1" and an attractive dude (no homo)
and yes I agree nobody on this forum will ever come close to getting a girl on that level. but please re-read my post. I'm also talking about the girls that are super hot (likely instagram models) but aren't quite up to the level of a Miranda Kerr
is the juice worth the squeeze for the level of girl that would require TONS of work boosting your SMV and spending ungodly amounts of time providing enough value to these girls to get into their social circles and parlay that social proof and 'warm open' into getting with their friends/aquaitences who are also extremely attractive, who you otherwise would likely never have a shot with...
coolsocks00 1 2y ago
Cant answer for you but for me its an obvious hell no.
Going through hoops like that just to bang chicks with a high social status sounds stupid to me. You can find women who are equally good looking and more interesting anywhere.
Musicgoon425 2y ago
Look, let's be fucking realistic here. You and I are just guys going after average women. Are some hotter than others? Yes. Are any of us dicking down landwales? No. A RP aware guy has options. He's not thirsty.
I'm a guy that usually keeps at least 3 types of women in his soft harem
All three will be insecure. And they all will be in low key competition of each other.
This isn't because of money. That's beta bux. This is because women want to be fucking a guy that other women want.
At any rate, let's not larp. You aren't a billionaire that's incredibly jacked and has a leer jet. No one that posts on here is. Most of us don't know supermodels and most of us aren't also slamming landwales.
Normal guys hooking up with normal but good looking girls.
Guys that live like Tony Stark are too busy to post bullshit on this forum.
Jester 2y ago
look at my post lower down this thead cause im gunna rehash some points..
but yes, nobody on this forum will ever get close to landing a Miranda Kerr. nobody on here has the "total package"; Rich af, tall af, hot af, alpha af, with killer status. but im using that as evidence to show that the higher up the "hierarchy of attractiveness" you go, the more you as a man have to bring to the table to achieve such a girl
I'm sure you have attractive plates, not questioning that... BUT there are girls that are out of your reach due to their SMV (which is predominantly due to their level of attractiveness) and to say otherwise is being disingenuous. Now you could work hard af and spend tons of time boosting your SMV, or perceived smv, in addition to offering value to girls in these higher tiers of attracitvess and parlay that social proof and 'warm open' in order to get with girls that were previously out of your reach... but my question (which is what my original post is all about), is IS all that extra effort worth it to get with 9's and 10's when you could get with 7's and 8's with MUUUCH less time and effort.
again bringing it back to the law of diminishing returns... the higher a girl is on the smv scale, the exponentially (key word!) more effort you will have to put in to get such a girl.
Want Miranda Kerr? well you gotta be a Orlando bloom, or the tall handsome rich billionaire who created snapchat... the amount of effort needed or even the odds of a anyone getting a girl on that level is insanity. but im talking about the girls who are within reach for me (and possibly other red pill guys) but would take A LOT of time and effort... again going back to my original question for everyone reading this. do you think the juice worth the squeeze?
Musicgoon425 2y ago
This is such a cope. Attractiveness has nothing to do with how hard or easy a woman is to pick up. Some women will be easy and some will be hard. I've seen passable hardly hot women act like their shit doesn't stink and they are a gift to the world and other super scorching hot chicks that have been beyond easy to pick up and date.
Is the juice worth the squeeze? I think so. You approach. You shoot your shot and you see what happens. I do this with every woman I see. Sometimes it will be easy and go well. Sometimes not. The whole point is it's abundance. If it goes well continue on, if it doesn't move to someone else.
Once again, if you don't put a woman on a pedestal, you won't feel like it's necessary to put up with her bullshit. The thought that you need to put in a shit ton of effort shows that you're not the prize and you don't have the abundance to drop her.
Jester 2y ago
dude. gunna be honest with you. you don't know what you're talking about. idk if you truly believe that or if you're just being intellectualy dishonest with yourself...
"Attractiveness has nothing to do with how hard or easy a woman is to pick up"
LMFAO! dude no offense but are you really that unware of how the world works?
once again if a girl is a LITERAL SUPER MODEL she will have literal billionaire, tall, Chad tier looks, alpha af guys chasing her left and right... NEWSFLASH she won't even give you or anyone on this forum the time of day when she has access to the top .0001% of guys. sorry to burst your bubble but parroting some red pill terminology like "just hold frame, have abundance, you are the prize" won't change the fact that you have a damn near 0% chance with these girls, and you're deluding yourself to think otherwise... still delusional? I'll go look up and send you the instagram handles of 20 girls who are an assortment of single runway models, I'll give you 6 months and if you even so much as kiss one of them on the lips I'll give you a thousand bucks, no cap!
(btw to anyone else reading this, I agree in red pill philosophy like holding frame and having abundance, but for someone to think that's all you need to score the hottest women in the world is straight up delusional and a form of ego protection)
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Jester 2y ago
thanks for the your reply. I agree with your assessment. many of these girls I'm kinda talking about (ie: runway models and such) have a lot of status, and therefore the disparity of social status between an average guy and a famous model will prevent that guy from ever landing her.
so yeah I get your point and I agree, you could find a very attractive girl who hasn't taken advantage of her looks (not a model, not insta famous) and you could get with a girl like that if you're attractive enough/tall enough/and have masculine frame. so yes, I agree it is possible if your value and status is on par with hers.
I would counter however that in the age of Instagram it's exceedingly difficult to find smoking hot girls who haven't taken advantage of their looks. I know a "girl next door type" who is very attractive from a very small farming town raised, in a very religious and conservative family... she just turned 21 and just moved to Vegas, doing modeling shoots, lingerie shoots, going backstage with DJ's like marshmalloh and tiesto, free dinners at 5 star restaurants, and she built up her instagram to 30,000+ followers in a short amount of time... girls that have 'willy wankas golden ticket' (are very attractive girls) most of the time cash that ticket in (they flaunt their attractivness and take full advantageof it, getting attention/resources from top tier guys, getting free dinners, free bottle service, free trips, Instagram sponsorships etc...) That said I think that 'infiltrating' higher social status friend groups like that, (by hosting photoshoots, and having your Instagram look just as amazing as these girls minus the tits) would give you a greater volume of very attractive girls date/smash. whereas if you don't build up your perceived status and infiltrate those friend groups, you'll be relegated to the rare "hot girl next door" who either isn't aware of how attractive she is, or just simply chooses not to take advantage of her looks to boost her status
so I guess I'd ask, do you think the access to a greater quantity/percentage of smoking hot girls would be worth it having to dedicate a large amount of time and effort keeping up your perceived value so that you can be introduced and attract these girls?
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un_knownguy 2y ago
I'm not going to read that, 10's do not exist
whytehorse2021 2y ago
You're talking about an extreme end of a bell curve. All that really matters is whether you'd put your dick in her. That puts you right at the middle of the bell curve where the majority of women are and nature has evolved them to be. So to fulfill your male sexual strategy, you would want to reproduce with as many of those women as possible. Blue pill has you thinking there's "the one" out there, which is actually female sexual strategy. When you tear these "10s" off their pedestal, remove the makeup and filters and lighting, you see they're just ordinary women. Go to a country where women aren't fat. There's a 10 on every corner. Women are beautiful just by being born. Those victoria secrets models are just a construct. The majority of women will give you the same arousal by starving themselves down and getting hair and makeup done and parading around half naked. Go to Bangkok with me some time. I'll show you first hand.