I’m a girl in my early 20s who has lurked on WAATGM for a hot minute now. Previously I’ve been in a few relationships but I was a virgin until my current bf who I live with and am marrying. Throughout the years I’ve been so shocked by the behavior of many of my friends and how they go about dating. I’ve always thought if you are nice you will receive kindness back, but this somehow warped many women into believing that they can insult and belittle men they are interested in to gain some type of control/authority over the situation. I’m now at an age where the girls are either banging anything that moves in college or are out of college, gained some weight, and are desperately looking for a man. They all come to me for advice and my answer is, much similar to the idea of this sub, that they put themselves in their situation and it’s too late.
To give more insight, i actually met my bf through a dating app. We just went out to dinner and I went home without expectation. Soon, it gradually turned more and more serious. He is a few years older than me, well educated, and just an overall great man. He has taught me a lot, and I feel like I am my best self with him. I am always respectful, we never argue, and we are best friends. The girls I meet from his friend group (who are single) hate me, always ask why I want marriage and a family when I should be focused on independence, and call me a prude bc I never went through a ‘drink and party’ phase. I want to answer that while they were busy drinking and partying, I was focused on health, education, and building good habits that would make me not just a good wife but a good person. Obviously, this is a work in progress.
Equally to the number of women who hate me, I get single girls I am acquainted with (not exactly friends) who ask me what I did right and they r doing wrong. They ask me to find someone for them or introduce them to the nice, professional men I know. I secretly know I won’t do this bc I won’t subject one of my guy friends to a girl I don’t think is particularly relationship material. I’ve only introduced two of our friends once bc me and the girl r very similar and the guy was so nice and deserved someone nice in return, and now they r getting married.
Basically all this to say I’m ashamed of the culture right now and this sub makes people mad when it just says the truth. Men want a woman without the baggage/slutty streak/ridiculous standards they set that are hypocritical when these women do nothing to take care of themselves, their appearance, or to increase their eligibility in, what is essentially, a market. I cannot tell you the number of girls I’ve told not to break up with a very nice man for a ridiculous reason and now they are lonely and honestly kind of going insane with the amount of ‘I am a happy single woman fuck you’ propaganda. I am currently in a situation right now with a good friend who makes up increasingly random reasons to break up with her bf (including him accidentally misgendering someone?) when he just bought her a HOUSE. The older I get, the more I understand why men on this sub don’t want to marry or be in relationships. People could think I’m sexist, but I think advocating for a much needed switch in mindset for today’s women is literally doing nothing but HELPING THEM in achieving the healthy stable relationships they seek. If women want to lie to themselves about how happy they are single, that’s fine with me, but I don’t ever tell them what they want to hear when they eventually beg “hook me up with that accountant guy” or “he said I was cute five years ago when I wasn’t interested, could you ask him about me now?” Anyway, good on you guys, may ur value continue to increase, and hopefully the culture takes a turn for the better
HedgeRunner 2y ago
Fuck it - Platinum Award. You are like every girl friend (not gf) in my social circle. They basically tell me - dude, you're too rare and I'm not going to refer you to someone who will fuck up your life.
Thanks for writing this.
veggieblonde 2y ago
Thanks for the award! At least you know when your friends introduce you to someone it’ll be something real
[deleted] 2y ago
First where you went wrong a guy doesn’t have to be well educated shouldn’t make no difference wether he is or isn’t well educated
GundamZero83 2y ago
You give me hope for the younger female generation.
NoonTimeHoopsMVP 2y ago
It is amazing. Feminism tells women to be anything they want to be but if a woman decides on her desire to be a stay-at-home mother, feminism tells her that she is betraying the cause.
Sounds controlling. Isn't that the same power that they are supposedly rebelling against?
OwenWentFullMGTOW 2y ago
One thing that doesn't get talked about much is how subs like this came to exist.
Basically, a lot of men have been put through the wringer in divorce court over the decades. Broken families, lost homes, lost wealth, etc., you've heard it all before. A lot of other men are considered legit undateable by modern women even tho they're quality men who make good livings.
What happened is that men talked to each other, shared stories, traded ideas and theories. Men noticed that the trends in female behavior seemed to apply to men all across the world. East or west, the patterns all added up. The data seemed solid and predictive. So, men acted.
Various men went in various directions. MRA, TRP, PUA, MGTOW, etc. Now, I have more respect for some of those acronyms than others. But I can at least recognize that those acronyms are efforts made by different men in different places to overcome a lousy situation based upon that man's own priorities.
At the same time that those acronyms started getting traction, women followed basically the same behavior. They got together, shared their experiences, absorbed other peoples' stories and... nothing.
For example, I understand if MGTOW isn't everyone's brand of vodka. But at a minimum, MGTOW is basically men trying to live their best life on their own terms. You have to give it that much.
Thing is, MGTOW started off as the lamest idea you ever heard of. Check out the original MGTOW mission statement, it's a joke. Bad comedy. But after ten years of evaluation, refinement and implementation, that lifestyle was being talked about by name in mainstream media outlets. Men were refusing marriage and it was undeniably showing up in annual stats.
What I find striking (and telling) (and sad) is that there rly is no women's equivalent of MGTOW, MRA or any of the rest. My understanding is that women started engaging each other about relationship issues about ten years ago. Basically, they started talking to one another just about the time that men refusing marriage was rly starting to make a dent in annual wedding numbers.
Now let's compare. What has happened in the ten years since women started talking to each other online about their problems with men? Well, unless the existence of FDS can be considered positive change, you have to say that either nothing has happened or else women have only made their collective situation worse. That's the only sane analysis.
But men generally recognized the problem. Specifically, that getting married is just not a good idea for most men these days. And so, armed with that insight, and whether they became avowed followers of any of the above acronyms or not, men took action and made the best of their situation.
But women haven't done that. Women seem to well recognize the problem. Namely, that a lot of men refuse to get married these days.
But what has been the follow through on that? Nothing. Or at least nothing beneficial to women or to men. Women today are more bitter about men than they were ten years ago. Whereas the acronym men are largely happier (or at least more comfortable) now than they were ten years ago. Instead of indulging in just a small amount of self-reflection (i.e., "Gosh darn golly gee, men all across the world suddenly refuse to get married, is there a problem with women?"), women have mostly bet all their chips on proven losing strategies (i.e., "Death to LVM, I want six figure/feet tall/pack/inches men, nothing else will do!"). And they seem genuinely surprised that they keep coming up snake eyes.
I can only wonder what might have been possible if women had spent the last ten years acting productively, improving themselves and making themselves more appealing to the relatively few remaining men still willing to consider marriage. Would marriage be a healthier, safer institution for all parties concerned? Could all the damage done over the last several decades have been healed? Maybe not.
But a lot of meaningful growth and healing could've occurred. Instead, it hasn't.
Rather, women are still complaining about the same elusive HVM on the Internet now that they were complaining about ten years ago. They're more bullheaded than ever, more entitled than ever and more in denial than ever. And I'd argue, more miserable than ever.
Nothing has changed when it comes to women's situation, except for the worse. Even tho the solution is so obvious that you'd have to be blind to miss it.
But a lot has changed for the better with men over the last ten years once they began consciously or unconsciously following one of the acronyms.
HowDoIGetToHyrule 2y ago
Sidebar worthy post imo.
Snoo16680 2y ago
I disagree. It is not too late. It is an uphill battle tho, and the hill is constantly getting steeper. They have a bitter pill to swallow, and it is just getting more bitter.
All the while people are telling themselves that as their desperation gets stronger, it should get easier. But it doesn't, it just get harder. But just because you are on a slippery slope, doesn't mean you have reached the point where you can't help falling down it. Yet.
Same for some men and sex (or dating in general, channeled into the idea of sex). It is not impossible, but it is gradually getting worse for each day that passes :/
[deleted] 2y ago
To my critics and detractors...
See. I told you so.
Behold, one who has the courage to face the truth. Ye also should go and do likewise. Now go, and sin no more.
FewActinomycetaceae0 2y ago
if you are a woman, i would tell you avoid other woman especially single woman, also avoid women with relationship issues in their Ltr's or marriage, and avoid divorced women like the plague and single mothers too. You should vet women in your circle 10x the level of men because you are a woman, and for some reason, women are easily influenced by other woman, that if a divorce happens in the circle , the chances of you getting divorced goes up 50% due to other women talking with the divorcee.
No one hates a woman more than other women, also women dont have friends they have frenemies who will do anything to ruin you especially if they can get away scot free.
NoonTimeHoopsMVP 2y ago
I worked in college athletics. I worked with one men's team but it was mostly female teams. It was amazing to see how female coaches ruthlessly allied with and then backstabbed each other. Frankly, it was frightening. One prime example below:
On one team, the head coach and the graduate assistant were always hanging out in the head coach's office. The assistant coach didn't. She just stayed in her office and did her darn job. The GA didn't. She always needed someone else's help. Well, the head coach liked having the GA around. Validated her self-esteem. So when the GA's contract was up, boom, the assistant coach was let go and the GA moved into the slot.
The new arrangement lasted only one season. The GA simply couldn't handle the duties of assistant coach: I had to take on some of her duties to make sure the season didn't end up in the gutter. But she has no problem trying to stick her nose into travel planning for the team. Every suggestion of her was nonsensical. I eventually made sure my meetings with the HC were when the former GA was busy. By the end of the season after the GA quit (to avoid being fired), the HC would tell everyone how awful she was. I just smirked in my head. The GA was awful but she was allowed to become a weed because she was watered.
The men's team didn't always run smoothly but there wasn't conspiracy and intrigue. We just yelled at each other.
otterlyclueless 2y ago
Also, avoid being friends with divorced singles as it increases your likelihood of divorcing
rpool179 2y ago
Women care more about being socially accepted, are more risk averse etc. That's why it's easier for women to influence each other vs men influencing each other. And why they're "frenemies" vs just telling them to fuck off.
And yea a man in a shit situation will more often tell his fellow man don't repeat my shitty mistakes. A woman as we repeatedly see will try to bend reality and convince her fellow woman to do what she did. And now they're both miserable and unhappy.
aehei 2y ago
Thanks for sharing. I see so many young women get tricked by other women into becoming entitled and acting like a hoe, just to become unhappy. Their lives and futures could be so much happier and more fulfilling by working on their health and wellness - it's refreshing to hear from a woman who found happiness through wholesome effort.
rpool179 2y ago
I've been seeing this in spades recently on Kevin Samuels channel. Really opened my eyes.
tosernameschescksout 2y ago
The echo chamber is a dangerous one, but it follow feminine thinking. "If I'm miserable, then I'm going to have company. If I'm wrong, I'll convince everybody else that wrong is right. If I have bitter regrets, I'll convert others to my bitterness."
Blackbarnabyjones 2y ago
wow.
Smartcom5 2y ago
Yup! Misery loves company for sure!
What is often blatantly obvious, is, that many, many good actual high-value women like the OP are extremely often tricked into either ruining their otherwise pretty awesome and perfectly fine relationship or marriage by being convinced over time with that infamous FOMO. We all know full well how it always starts soo innocently, right?!
The dripping begins at the work-place, with
envyevil-natured doubt-bombing like …… for eventually stepping outside of the relationship/marriage and ruin it through infidelity afterwards or just breaking up with him – with given results, of course.
The kicker is, that in such cases, said b!tches in question daring the decent woman to step outside of their picture-perfect relationship/marriage in the first place, in 9 out of 10 cases are almost always SINGLE by themselves (for a darn good reason, mind you!), bitter, have a solid 'justified' hatred towards the overwhelming majority of men and are ALL multi-award winning yet hell-certified Devilish Masters of Manipulation, Gaslighting and tricky Wickedness™ – or some nasty STBXW (soon-to-be Ex-wife) who can't await the very day to finally divorce-grape her hated husband over in court and eventually do what she plotted to do even well before the actual marriage (which just happened to catch a good one after riding the CC for way too long, and due to her past just can't pair-bond anymore) …
They just for the live of God literally can't stand some other woman having the actual decency to stay loyal and faithful – and being happy NOT to h03 around (and get handed over from D!ck to Chad and vice versa) like a filthy piece of flesh/meat.
They literally hate the fact (from the very bottom of their rotten heart) that some other woman may enjoy something they by themselves never had nor ever will manage to archive – due to their own overwhelming and shockingly effective incompetency to never ever stay any loyal.
The situation is pretty much always the same and as follows;
FOMO, it's a thing!
40moreyears 2y ago
You aren’t sexist for calling out dysfunction. Dysfunctional people come in all genders. Sounds like you’re just highlighting what you see as broken thinking and it just so happens that many women have this broken thinking. That said, many men do as well. It just seems that this broken thinking impacts women at a higher rate but that’s anecdotal. Nice post.
rpool179 2y ago
It impacts women at a higher rate because they don't hold themselves or each other accountable. And neither does society. Hence they don't have to learn from their mistakes or improve. And they stay broken.
Natural_Maximum240 2y ago
Women like you are few and far between. Glad you found each other. You were raised right with good values and morals. Meanwhile I'm going it alone. MGTOW
julietteisatuxedo 2y ago
58 here. Yup my mating instinct years are now behind me. It just didn't happen on account of life circumstances and the cards I was dealt. It's ok though the MGTOW life allows us so called 'enfranchised' men to be content haha ! I do my own thing and work 7/7 at my business if and when I feel the need or not.
ronoda12 2y ago
Men want virgins. The idea of multiple other men ejaculating inside the vagina of the woman that can literally hold semen for years is vomit inducing from reproduction perspective. And micro chimerism is real.
rpool179 2y ago
Micro chimerism? I know what a chimera is so I have a feeling I'm about to be repulsed.
Tracker1958 2y ago
My wife and I together for 44 years. You on a good start. Any woman that don't put their husband first and any man that doesn't put his wife first won't last long.
tosernameschescksout 2y ago
That's nicely said. Just holding each other in high value is SUPER important.
Women don't do that anymore, so all their relationships are turning to shit. They self implode with it.
[deleted] 2y ago
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Tracker1958 2y ago
My brother have been married longer than we have. 47 and 49, I think.
meme_harder 2y ago
My grandparents on my father's side were married for more than 50 years until granny died. My grandad is still alive.
Edit: Not a personal achievement, but something worthy of recognition. How they managed to do that is beyond me. I guess with love and compromise you can do it.
throwawayranterz 2y ago
Your future husband seems like a lucky man! I'm glad to see your efforts are paying off, I aspire to do the same. :)
I love it when older women who have failed at the task of keeping a good LTR tell me (teenaged) similar things. My mother has a feminist spinster friend who is seriously into astrology and literally talks to an old tree in her garden because she believes it has a soul and transcendently understands her.
One time we were discussing the wage gap and I showed her the astounding amount of evidence disproving it (apart from basic logic). Once she had reluctantly viewed it she started crying and told me I sound sexist. According to her, I shouldn't ever be a housewife because "outspoken/intelligent women being SAH wives/mothers is a waste of potential and oppressive". Apart from that, she claims it's a bad idea to get married in your twenties because you "will be taken advantage of".
But that pales in comparison to the conversation I had with her about a week ago. I realized she's really just regretfully rationalizing why she ended up a spinster.
I was on holiday with her and my mother. We were sitting right by the beach at a bar at night with some drinks when the topic of her experience on dating apps came up. She explained how she first signed up to OLD when she was 38, since she realized she wanted kids (I'm afraid that boat had already sailed, but alright). She claims to have gotten some seemingly good matches (a surgeon, business owner etc., although they were perhaps a decade older than her and divorced), however didn't feel a "spark" (ahem, tingles) with them. There were a few "attractive young guys" which she got involved with, but it just "didn't work out". She stayed on the app until she was about ~45 when she "gave up on having kids". When she got to that part she slowed down her speech, poetically looking out onto the moon above the sea, almost shedding a tear. Internally, I was sympathetically thinking about how extremely she matches up with the usual WAATGM women. So, I decided to dig a bit further and ask her for her "best dating advice to a young woman". She took a minute to contemplate before telling me that I "shouldn't ever be afraid of being alone, even if it means getting older, because the right man will come along eventually". Pure delusion. I felt sorry for her and I could see the pain in her eyes as she told her story to spinsterhood. It's almost insane how much her life and persona match up with the whole WAATGM phenomenon.
polishknightusa 2y ago
What an incredible story. Thanks for sharing it.
It is astounding that a 38 year old woman could match up with top grade men. A surgeon! Business owner! I better not tell my wife about this! :-)
You said "her (baby) ship had sailed" but it hadn't. These men were the lifeboats to get on and she let them go. Astonishing. I'm reminded of a friend of mine who hated his job and wanted to go but he complained that the job he was offered didn't pay him AT LEAST as much as the (high paying) job he was leaving. I told him he wanted a "leather covered luxury lifeboat seat." Later on, he wound up retiring because that job stank as well. So men can be "hypergamous" too. I took a (small) pay cut for my current job but everyone is great to work with.
Philosophically, "the tingles" usually don't last but they aren't needed. My wife knows that babies are not "tingly" things. She hates changing diapers and dealing with baby problems but she knows that her daughter is the most important person in her life. My wife is a royal pain but I love her because she's my wife. Marriage and parenthood is about knowing your kids and spouse DESERVE to be loved, period, whether they give you tinglies or not. (That doesn't mean I put up with nonsense from either of them. I am the disciplinarian of the household and keep my lovely daughter from becoming a brat.)
rpool179 2y ago
Jesus I wasn't expecting this level of thoughtful introspection from a high schooler. I'm impressed
yellomachine 2y ago
At least the tree will always be there to listen to her.
jmpires 2y ago
I think the tree is waiting for the termites and a chainsaw to end her misery.
Sintar07 2y ago
"Never be afraid of being alone because the right man will come along eventually..."
O.o from the single old lady who talks to a tree?!? O.o
How self unaware can one person be? Or at least one hopes she's not self aware, because the alternative, that she knows exactly what she is and just chose to drag younger women down, would be so much worse. Thank God you see through her. It's tragic to think about how many other young women she might have access to who will probably listen to her.
rpool179 2y ago
She knows what she's doing.
[deleted] 2y ago
We have reached the point of brainwashing to where taking care of the home, your children, and husband is seen as slavery, while working for crumbs 50 hours per week for your corporate overlord to come home to an empty apartment is considered freedom.
NoonTimeHoopsMVP 2y ago
Because the government wants everyone dependent on it.
Destroying the family unit is paramount for that agenda to succeed.
[deleted] 2y ago
You won’t vote for more government involvement if you are not dependent on them, that is for sure.
MrNeurotypical 2y ago
Some chick just literally told me men want slaves(housewives). Just let them do their thing over there and we'll do our thing over here. No further interaction needed. Every extra house they buy, every car, etc just makes my stock portfolio larger. They're consumers and a tax base, nothing more.
Natural_Maximum240 2y ago
lol thanks for the laugh.
[deleted] 2y ago
The brainwashing is real!
MrNeurotypical 2y ago
LMFAO turned down a fricking surgeon??? In her late 30s? Jesus, you can't even make this shit up.
FewActinomycetaceae0 2y ago
The surgeon was an idiot why pick a 38 year old instead of a 22 year old, this is not new, when i was young, i knew a very close widow who picked a limo driver to remarry instead of a doctor because the dr was dark skinned, i couldnt believe it and i was 17 so pretty dumb young and full of cum but i even knew that was just plain retarded
throwawayranterz 2y ago
I couldn't even believe it. I asked her if there was some sort of major dealbreaker since he sounds like a catch (especially at her age and low SMV - of course didn't mention that to her). I kid you not, she said the main reason was that she didn't want a recently divorced man. Bullet dodged him. Lol!
polishknightusa 2y ago
I'd love for you to hang around with my wife. Most of her friends are either materialistic hags but we have one nice woman (whose a widow).
When she gets naggy with me, I say "Would Prince Harry put up with that?" and she thinks for a while because she's irked he married a divorced woman who ruined him BUT she also knows that if he was smart, he wouldn't put up with that nonsense and then she is pleasant again... until I need to remind her to quit nagging.
But yeah, if Prince Harry knocked at the door and offered to take her and my daughter off my hands, she'd probably go. But we BOTH know this isn't going to happen.
My wife acknowledges that her good sense is amplified by being around me. That I am the rock she has for someone, other than her father, that she can absolutely trust. It's not just my task to chase away spiders (although she can do that on her own) or pay utility bills but also be the consigliere that mob bosses usually have to kill for.
I feel sorry for that tree she talks to. Probably never told her to shut up.
BluepillProfessor 2y ago
Sorry, but all bets seem to be that Harry would put up.with it.
polishknightusa 2y ago
She knows that hence she weeps that she couldn't land him.
throwawayranterz 2y ago
Yep, exactly how I feel looking at my mother's friend group at times. It would really be nice to have some more socially conservative female friends in real life, so I can imagine we would get along well. At least I know some from church. I also love talking to the old, wise, conservative couples in my neighborhood. Highly recommend if you see any around. Although I guess it would be hard to really "befriend" them.
Haha, likewise. I hope for the sake of the tree that it doesn't have a conscience.
FewActinomycetaceae0 2y ago
Damn at 38, these days women never get off the carosel till they are completely broken or thrown off. This was probably her third time.
InevitableOwl1 2y ago
A 38 year old on bumble has just matched with me. Her profile says she wants kids but also she wants "friendship first"
I don't think I have the heart to tell her she is really messing with the clock
polishknightusa 2y ago
The reason for THAT is that "friendship first" REALLY means "no hookups" which, according to Roosh, ALWAYS means she's hooked up OR friendzoned the guy.
Hence why she's 38 after having "friends" she isn't interested in or chads who pump and dumped.
rpool179 2y ago
I've been seeing more and more women in that age bracket say "well we can adopt then." Like they just don't get that most people man and woman want to have their own biological children, not raise someone else's. Single moms are learning this even harder now.
MrNeurotypical 2y ago
Can't teach an old dog new tricks. She's so set in her ways you'd be wasting your time. I know what it's like to wake up 5 times/night with an infant at age 40 and then go work all day... continuously for a year.
jmpires 2y ago
Bold of you to assume Down syndrome on a kid would haunt you for a single year. More like, all the way to your grave, or the kid’s. They don’t live long past 40.
Tracker1958 2y ago
My wife was 17 and I was 18, that was 44 years ago. Back in those days, women were women and men was in love with them and a man wanted to marry one.
polishknightusa 2y ago
1976 was probably the end of the traditional values as we know it. Ironically, they started really dying off during the Reagan era when I came of age.
(Modern) traditional courtship of waiting for men to ask them out worked well in high school and college because men and women were comfortable with each other. Men were on reasonably good behavior (if he was seen as a jerk, the gossip got around quickly) and vice versa. Women had time to send "signals" to men, to get rejected by chads (because chad didn't ask her out) and women didn't bang chad because then everyone would find out and soon she'd get a 'reputation'. These are all things that we take for granted that many young people now wouldn't even comprehend.
It was a VERY fragile ecosystem since without this large number of women/men together in one place, with an understanding of the importance of marriage, and still a good supply of jobs for men it all still largely worked although the cracks were showing. I remember a lot of divorces were starting back then.
[deleted] 2y ago
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polishknightusa 2y ago
I have friends and relatives who live in the USSR. When the collapse came, it was due to the closed nature of the Soviet system. Foreign banks didn't buy Soviet debt and China didn't provide tons of cheap stuff. What's kept the USA going for so long, has been "debt" in so many forms: Mass immigrant cheap labor to drive down wages and prop up corporate profits (they vote Democrat too. An added bonus to show the middle finger to globalist supply siders.) Perhaps another reason we don't see a collapse is that unlike the denizens of the USSR, where else do Americans who are fed up with the system have to go? I personally have options but others don't. Yeah, I'm considering fleeing BEHIND the Iron Curtain.
Tracker1958 2y ago
Married in 1977, thank GOD.
Tracker1958 2y ago
Men. Stop Dating Down as the women say. Don't date women below your income level like the women are doing. Let see if they like the same rules used on them.
polishknightusa 2y ago
I had a framed rule that women should pay their way on a first date. After going through hell for years, I did find a girl who would have paid and she was nice but... she was a 4/10. Just below what I would settle for and I realized that I was being like women: Taking hypergamy/demands in one way and painting myself in.
So I paid for the precious first date but I didn't settle for anything LESS than a 7 and I'd even talk to 8's and 9's.
In the end, at 33, I had a lot of high income women willing to date me but gaming them was such a burden that I wound up marrying a "country girl" so to speak. Now SHE can be annoying in her own way (she has a work ethic but she goes insane if I put a dirty glass on a counter she had just cleaned even though that's what the counter is for, etc.)
Tracker1958 2y ago
Most high incomes women are also high maintenance. Most women are just more trouble than they are worth. Treat women like a condom, fill her and then trash her! Then move on.
iateadonut 2y ago
It really devalues motherhood when someone calls it a "waste of potential" to become a SAH mother. It's perhaps the single most important job there is. It's a shame we devalue it because it's not paid.
MrNeurotypical 2y ago
It is paid actually. The woman gets the benefit of higher earnings of the man and all that follows. If you do the math of hiring a nanny and a maid, and then subtract that from the woman's earnings in the workplace, you get upside down real fast. Maybe if she's a doctor it works out but not if she's a teacher.
polishknightusa 2y ago
There's this trap that feminism created for women:
Due to the (corporate welcomed) influx of women, prices rose for consumer goods, education, etc. while wages stagnated making it more difficult for a man to support a household on his own. It's possible, of course, but in the end, women LOST men from more women working, ironically.
So many women HAVE to work and this may mean her weekends being comprised of cleaning the home and engaging in complex part-time shifts and babysitting sharing to make ends meet (she looks after a woman friend's kids on some days and vice versa.)
If she has a good paying job, or what's known as "double dipping", and married a good income man, then she's well off. Sure, much of her income gets sucked away by childcare and maids but with tax cuts she's still earning money and after the kids are 5 they're in school. But again, she's trapped: If she WANTS to spend more time at home, then the man needs to trust her to not divorce rape him and demand alimony for her "sacrifice".
Heck, that's what smart men use the courtship period for while the women think it's all about evaluating him for how worthy he is to support her. How does she handle hearing the word "no?" Does she dump him if he refuses to take her out that often (at his expense?) Does she joke with her friends who have divorced men and taken them to the cleaners? Does she have a work ethic FOR THE FAMILY to clean and cook and care for others without complaining about it?
My wife and I both "job interviewed" each other for a full year.
MrNeurotypical 2y ago
Same here. I took a couple years vetting my wife and spent a decade vetting women. Being a housewife is actually pretty simple nowadays with the technology we have. Having kids is still really hard on both parents but the wife gets them when they're little and then hands them off to the father for the rest of their lives. Eventually the kids are gone(if you raised them right) and you're stuck with your best friend at the end of it all with everything you've created over a lifetime.
polishknightusa 2y ago
I'm reminded of a friend I made back when I got married who was a B lister Hollywood star back in the 1950's. She designed the Poodle Skirt. I saved her photo she gave me and liked her but as I got to know her better, I could see why she was single. She really pissed off my wife when she came to the wedding.
Nonetheless, she was charming so the single life probably worked for her. But imagine how many women who were hot in their 20's and look to date later, are effectively dating men who will not remember them in their "Glory Days". Seeing her H.S. photo may even make things worse because a man she meets will say "I wish I had some of THAT!"
In the "long game", married women (and men) enjoy a compilation of fine memories with hopefully the bad times being water under the bridge. Marriage is like a Hot Tub time machine for someone to be appreciated from youth to old age by someone with shared memories.
There are moments in marriage where one, or both, people will say "eff it, this isn't worth it" but it also means throwing away this huge collection of shared memories and working from scratch and not seeing in the long run if it's worth it. So giving it a few months, or even a few years, is sometimes worth it except, of course, for abuse or substance addiction. In that case, I'd say it's best to just cut bait and move on.
Dating sets the most unreasonable set of standards imaginable and I'm amazed marriages established by it don't fail MORE often.
MrNeurotypical 2y ago
Kevin Samuels did a show on on women dating forever. Eventually he got down to the root cause and it's because they're afraid of the marriage not working out. So yeah, there's a lot of women that are single old hags now. At any rate, it's not our problem. The feminists can have them.
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MrNeurotypical 2y ago
Yeah I encountered this on another forum and some young girl was so worried about "what if he's abusive?". So she would never choose a man. Always had to be on the look out. Maybe her dad sucked or whatever but I can see how women always are on the prowl for the best option.
Ok_Management4634 2y ago
"Abusive".. The ultimate "Get out of jail free" card for a woman.
I am trying to think of a time in my life where a woman did not say at least one of her ex's (usually ex-husband) Was abusive. More lies, they redefine "abused" to mean 'I didn't always get my way, he wouldn't let me spend our entire net worth"
polishknightusa 2y ago
To justify workplace and family court preferences for women, feminists pushed the narrative that marriage was oppressive to women. A woman friend told me during the 80's it was "popular" (her words) for her woman friends to say marriage was something men would need to sell them on because they were so hard to get.
This is called "playing yourself."
It is fundamentally society's problem, including us, that this has happened. That's not to say it's our fault, of course, but rather it has meant millions of happy families including men never happened.
I have an idea for a memorial to soft genocide: A holographic wall where when you look head on, you see nothing but from the sides, you can see children playing and couples kissing and toddler toys. The words are:
"You were never born because of social and economic policies that suppressed your birth and existence. You never experienced love because of someone's twisted ideology. But your possibility exists in our hearts and memories nonetheless. This memorial is only a marker of our love and remembrance."
Harry_Teak 2y ago
I knew it was pretty much over when I saw my first box of frozen PB&J sandwiches for the "busy mom on the go."
Sweetheart, if you don't have time to slap together a PBJ or teach your kids how to make their own there is something deeply and tragically wrong.
Overkillengine 2y ago
Hell my own mother taught me how to cook early on because in her own words she "didn't want me eating crappy meals that come out of a cardboard box" whenever she wasn't there to fix something.
It's a skill that has served me well.
Harry_Teak 2y ago
Great mom. Too many people running loose who don't know more than it takes to microwave a Hot Pocket. Reminds me of the old Hardee's commercial: without us, some guys would starve.
banmered 2y ago
Most people conflate value with price.
If you properly vetted the future mother of your children, then the value of a devoted, attentive mother and a competent housekeeper far exceeds typical nanny+housekeeper combinations.
A run-of-the-mill nanny or au pair is unlikely going to go to tremendous creative lengths and research effort to problem solve a child's long-standing behavioral/emotional/maturation/etc. issues. The usual maid service doesn't handle laundry for example, nor coordinate trades to maintain the house, and staying on top of healthcare appointments. And with the more well-educated and intelligent tradwives, they also handle aspects of the children's education. This is on top of chauffering and shopping.
In the US, that level of services is deep into 5-figures for each, and in HCOL areas easily breaching 6-figures for the nanny. Even on a 1%'er income, that's a steep tab.
With a tradwife keeping up her end of the arrangement, a man is supporting not just his life & sex partner, but a nanny, maid, part-time teacher, and housekeeper. Even with generous maid service and babysitting to take the edge off of the nanny and maid parts, and tutors to take the edge off of the part-time teacher pieces, the ideal of a stay-at-home-mother doing an exceptional job is why men pine away as romantics. Along with what men do and endure for such a partnership, it's an incredibly human journey through the decades. The price on such a husband-wife partnership is truly astronomical; the value however, is incalculable.
And to think so many feminists have the gall to put down these women's choice to become better versions of themselves today to reach for that ideal tomorrow, and get away with it.
MrNeurotypical 2y ago
When you see those women, just laugh at them. They got what they wanted and so did the wives. Choices have consequences. Get kicked out of the marriageable tribe and you can't get back in.
polishknightusa 2y ago
I wrote up a pretty long response but I'll try this on for size:
Whatever one might say about nannies or au-pairs, one benefit they offer is that if they get lazy and don't do their job well or even start being abusive to you, you can issue them their walking papers without them taking your kids, home, 1/2 of your stuff, and a perpetual paycheck.
rpool179 2y ago
You seem to have a good head on your shoulders. Keep doing what you're doing. Don't let anyone persuade you differently. And we all know they'll try relentlessly. Stay strong.
Dude_Sweet_942 2y ago
Its the crab bucket theory. Basically if you fill a bucket with crabs they will scramble over each other to get out. If a crab actually makes to the top there will always be another below it pulling it back in. People do this too. If you are rising above others will try to keep you at their shitty level.
rpool179 2y ago
Definitely bro. You summed it up. But for anyone reading this, ESPECIALLY WOMEN, don't sabotage people and give them bad advice. Trying to make them fail doesn't help you in any way. And for anyone who receives good advice from someone who appears to not have done the same, don't automatically assume they're a "hypocrite." Their situation could be vastly different and there's context you don't know about. John isn't a hypocrite for telling you to do something he didn't do if his situation wasn't the same as yours. Remember that.
yellomachine 2y ago
This is encouraging. It looks as if some women see thru the BS.
Don't hang around with women who try and talk you into their lifestyle. You KNOW they are after your man.
Tracker1958 2y ago
The best advice I can give anyone about marriage is, don't never take or ask for advice for anyone that has not been married for at least 30 years. Never take advice about marriage from a singles person. I get a laugh from single dating coaches giving relationships advice. This is from a man that has 44 years of marriage.
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Tracker1958 2y ago
You have to be a special kind of stupid to follow a single dating coach.
FewActinomycetaceae0 2y ago
yes but your advice has been made obsolete, also not relevant as marriages dont happen anymore mostly, so your advice of stability 10 years in wont apply as over 50% of marriages break at year 4. as for the rest, the general stuff hasnt change for thousands of years.
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Tracker1958 2y ago
That why I tell the men to get a vasectomy before dating women. Stop the baby trap. Stop the child support. Stop the abortion and stop the welfare queens.
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Tracker1958 2y ago
Spread the word. Take away their motherhood.
rpool179 2y ago
But what about for the guys who want children? And please don't say adoption. Most of us want our own biological children if we have them, not someone else's.
hudibrastic 2y ago
It was heartwarming for me to read this, thanks for sharing and thanks for being a nice person
It is good to know there are girls like you (:
EastEndMontrealer1 2y ago
"I regret that I have but one upvote to give for this post"
​
But seriously, this post is really well written. I think that there should be more written like this and that more people should read it
MrNeurotypical 2y ago
I love my traditional stay at home wife/mother. 17 years married and friends for 23. She gets to be taken care of until she dies and so do I. She gets to have sex and orgasms every day in every position with a hot guy. She gets to be feminine and nurturing and do what women do best. Now that the kids are off in school she gets to go to college and have a career. She gets to be treated like a lady, doors held for her, respected, etc. She has it all. Thanks to her supporting me in my business we get to retire in our mid 40's and one day hopefully enjoy grand kids.
Just be honest. Tell your single friends they're going to die alone because you can't make a hoe into a housewife and men know this. They might as well enjoy their years riding the cock carousel and supporting themselves. Or they can lower their standards to some one more their equal. Basically a short, fat, bald, broke dude who lives with his mom. I know if I was that bad I'd settle for a used up hoe with kids. I've got a buddy who did just that.
I was able to screen out women like your friends by asking a few simple questions like "Do you want to be married? Have kids? Do you cook/clean/do laundry? Drugs? Alcohol?". I'd say about 99% of modern women are eliminated just based on those. Those women wouldn't even get a date with a guy like me. They had no idea I was screening them for potential marriage. A common response was "No, I'm just dating right now"... NEXT!
jakeylushhh 2y ago
Why does this article seems so good to be true to be typed by a woman...
veggieblonde 2y ago
look at my profile history! I am indeed a woman lol
User0x00G 2y ago
Happy to see that you decided to get the inside scoop on what men think by looking/listening for yourself. Initially it might be a shock to see the opinions expressed here, but one thing is for certain...no one is telling you what they think you want to hear because they hold out some desperate hope of having sex with you across the Internet.
A woman who actually listens to the conversations here will be light years ahead of other women who are trying to understand men based upon what they learn from other women on social media.
I heard of a book once called "What Men Wish Women Knew"...can't vouch for it either way because I never read it, but if this subreddit ever gets condensed down into a book, that would certainly be the appropriate title.
FewActinomycetaceae0 2y ago
same thing, there are no women that think with such precise thoughts and introspection, this is written by a male, remember, there are no unicorns, and unicorns are male horses with a horn. this is a LARP
jakeylushhh 2y ago
I wouldn't go that far.
tosernameschescksout 2y ago
Thank you.
It means a lot that anyone is even aware of this.
You're a good person with wholesome values, and you make good decisions. I wish more women were like you.
moldovan0731 2y ago
Don't even bother with it. Here's why you'll never convince them: https://youtu.be/fx-3lK_6ZQc https://youtu.be/BqiSwahrfZE
MrNeurotypical 2y ago
Wow, that was very informative. Here I was all ready to rescue other men... only to realize they don't want to be rescued. We truly are a different breed, us red pill men. The apex alphas of intelligence and self-determination. Same goes for women. And the funny part is we're assortively mating. My kids are red pilled before they even hit puberty. Imagine having a do-over at life being red pilled before puberty. Developing all the Chad physical and behavioural characteristics through rational thought.
sendspidermanpics 2y ago
You wouldn't buy a car without taking a few for a test drive.
[deleted] 2y ago
metaphor doesn't match
BeholdTheHair 2y ago
That's just the thing; I and, I think, a lot of other men still want to be in relationships. Ideally, I'd even like to get married. It's still the best way to raise children, after all.
Sadly, what I want has no bearing on what is, and what is is a fucking dumpster fire. Reasonably attractive young women spurn the advances of decent guys to compete with every other woman for the fleeting attention of Chad and Tyrone. They allow themselves to be impregnated by these men and bear their children despite it being obvious to all involved he ain't gonna' stick around. They project what they value in men onto what men value in women and chase career and academic accomplishments, doing absolutely nothing to enhance their own market value (whether sexual or romantic) while simultaneously pricing themselves out of that same market.
I would love to find a decent woman with whom to settle down and build a life. And I ain't talkin' a unicorn. I'm just shy of 36, 5'8", never graduated college and make less than $50k/yr. Chad I ain't and well I know it, so I ain't looking for Stacy (or whatever the kids are calling it these days). My search criteria are as follows:
That's it. That's all. Everything else is negotiable. I don't care what color her hair is, how much she weighs (beyond not being fat) or how big her tits are. I ain't putting in an order at the Build-a-Ho Worskshop here. I just want a decent woman who doesn't come with another man's kids or a complete inability to pair-bond due to having more pipe run through her than a city sewer system.
Apparently that's too much to ask.
So fuck it. I'm going to keep working my not-prestigious-enough job that's perfectly adequate to my needs, playing video games with my buddies, recording audio narration for my own amusement, hitting the gym, occasionally going out to dance and trying to find other ways to keep busy and hopefully somewhat fulfilled so I don't blow my brains out at 45 because I can't deal with the loneliness anymore.
MrNeurotypical 2y ago
You're an alpha giga Chad where my wife comes from. Plenty of fit, feminine, friendly, submissive, cooperative virgins looking to be wives and mothers. Don't let these modern trash women rob you of your dreams. I didn't. I wifed up a 100lb Indonesian Muslim woman who I'd been great friends with while in university. She's an actual lady and it drives modern women nuts when they see her with a HVM while they're still single. Nowadays she gets dirty looks because she's Asian and looks half her age so they think she's some 20yr old with a 46yr old man... in other words stealing older men from them.
BeholdTheHair 2y ago
Heh. I appreciate the compliment but I'm not bothered about not being a top 5% man. That shit looks like way more work than it's worth. I've never been terribly ambitious, which is probably a good part of why I've never been especially successful with women (y'know, in addition to being a BP moron until my early 30s). As long as I can pay my bills, put something in savings and still have a little bit extra to play with once the work's done I'm content.
I've definitely thought about looking more at dating religious women. They generally share my values and, if not always stunners, at least have a more natural look I find far more appealing than the shaved heads, unnatural dye jobs, tattoos and piercings so many women inflict upon themselves.
The "problem," or at least what seems to be one of the bigger ones, is I'm an atheist. Not an Edgy Atheist™; I got that shit out of my system a long time ago. I just don't believe in any kind o' deity, and appreciating Judeo-Christian values and understanding how belief helps folks be and do better doesn't really change that.
More to the point, while I've no problem with dating a woman who does believe, I understand it's generally a pretty big deal to religious folks that their partner share their belief. I obviously don't and I've yet to figure out how to square that particular circle.
julietteisatuxedo 2y ago
I went into JW at your age looking for a "good Christian wife". I left burned out and depressed a few years later after being suckered into baptism. You are right on all counts, that unless you live up to their particular dogma you'll stay single. Forget about that angle unless you find one that believes but doesn't practice the religion actively.
MrNeurotypical 2y ago
I'm an atheist too. My wife is Muslim. Apparently I was converted on our wedding day in a foreign language because I have some certificate in some other foreign language(Arabic) that says I'm Muslim. It's all Indonesian and Arabic. Pfft, whatever. As soon as I told my American friends about that they got married to Indonesian Muslim women too. Anyway, I just go with the flow and say I'm a progressive Muslim that eats pork, drinks alcohol, doesn't pray as a ritual, and has sex with prostitutes when the wife can't do it.
When my wife hits menopause I can get another wife. She's still going strong at 44 but eventually that will come to an end. I don't have to trade her in for a new model like Christians do, I just keep her and she retires from sex and a new woman takes over. An 18yr old virgin, of course. IDGAF if she's a virgin anyway so I have a huge pool of women. I would gladly welcome that reformed sex worker who is amazing in bed and a HB10 but was defiled and is 20yrs younger than me.
LateralThinker13 2y ago
Wow. You belong in the RedPillWomen subreddit. You'd fit right in. Good for you.
BeholdTheHair 2y ago
Seems like there's been an influx of BP posters over there recently. I've seen lots of comments pushing career advancement as a primary means of self-improvement and telling younger women not to worry so much about trying to find a good man while they're young.
No idea where they're all coming from, but it's discouraging to see.
MrNeurotypical 2y ago
Do not go looking into female spaces(assuming you're a man). You'll see the most crazy stuff that way. I stick to male spaces and ones that are based in reality. My time is limited so I maximize it.
LateralThinker13 2y ago
I report them when I see them. It's still against the sub rules to post that crap, and the mods to stomp it if it's reported.
BeholdTheHair 2y ago
Fair point. I'll make more of an effort to do the same.
[deleted] 2y ago
Bunch of hypocrites. They ban any male advice that isn't from someone 50+
LateralThinker13 2y ago
Mine hasn't been banned yet and I'm not 50. Their mods tend to be pretty good. They don't put up with the attitude and language that TRP does, but if you follow the sidebar I've found them to be very tolerant. Problem is, most guys aren't willing to follow their rules.
3HardWay 2y ago
This is a good example of why gender separated spaces need to exist. I don't care for the language you chose, however. "put up with". That is shaming language used by women. I would say women simply cannot handle the language and attitude found in male spaces. They are delicate, intimidated, and easily offended.
LateralThinker13 2y ago
I used the language I meant to use. Being crass, blunt, and in your face like many TRPers are is transgressive against norms. In RPW spaces, which you admit is a gendered, female space, and where softer, kinder femininity is prized, such behavior is unwelcome.
Not hardly. They are practicing being feminine, which includes speaking in ways that are less masculine. If they want rougher male language, then they will go to those spaces. In their space, their rules.
You're the one insulting/ad hominem-ing them even as you admit their space is for them. If you can't appreciate what they are doing there, that's your loss. They are the polar opposite of this sub.
3HardWay 2y ago
I don't care what women do in their space. I have no desire to go there. Women absolutely do not come into a male space and let live. Time and time again, invade and change.
You are stuck in a gynocentric frame.
BluepillProfessor 2y ago
Lol, she's a woman. Gynocentric? Well yes, hopefully.
3HardWay 2y ago
No wonder. What a waste a time.
LateralThinker13 2y ago
Okay, then why do you complain about what happens in RPW?
I don't disagree. Women tend to destroy male spaces. How is that germane to this discussion?
You're namecalling and picking fights with people who don't necessarily disagree with you. Chill.
3HardWay 2y ago
I think this is just a Reddit thing, Hypersensitivity. The slightest challenge to even phraseology is characterized as a personal attack. I need to relax? To me that seems like projection. We need to get away from this bizarre reddit world where every statement needs to be prefaced with a paragraph of explanation and disclaimers.
Why did I complain about what happens in RPW?
I did not. I criticized the view that "women don't put up with male behavior". They are free to have whatever rules they want in their own space. But the driving factor isn't superiority.
How is this germane to this discussion (women destroying male spaces)?
Well you said "If they want rougher male language, then they will go to those spaces." And this is not true, women do not go to male spaces and allow them to stay how they are.
Don't take it personally, there were no personal attacks, namecalling, or picking of fights in any of this.
[deleted] 2y ago
This isn't real life. Too many rules ruin any discussion.
AFthrowaway3000 2y ago
You're on the right track, keep it up. And stay away from anything Feminism-related, which is one of the biggest catalysts of the "drink and party, and fuck everybody" phase today.
And no, just in case you might be thinking we're misogynists here, Anti-Feminism does NOT mean Anti-women, which we aren't at all. (Women in the West are NOT oppressed, despite public opinion trying to say otherwise).
So no, we don't hate women here. We hate what Feminism has made 9 out of 10 of them become.
Godfist04 2y ago
If ur real just treat yo man right and dont worry about anything else
the_them 2y ago
I would encourage you to share your story with women as well as men. You might receive a lot of hate for it, but its important to see this other perspective, that happy healthy relationships are possible as long as you put in the effort.
FewActinomycetaceae0 2y ago
nope wont work, women will only listen to the standard narrative which is hoe for now from 14, settle later which used to be 30 but i believe the new program is now 45, and freeze eggs, once narrative is absorbed and internalized she will never turn back, only men have regret and introspection to say i fucked up and to self correct, did you notice the 38 year old spinster, she is telling this woman to become like her, her solipsistic nature wont allow her hamster wheel to think she fucked up.
Men dont need to be told anything, they already know or not worth it as they are too stupid to bother, its a clear delineation.
the_them 2y ago
Women do listen to other women, sometimes. They might not ever agree with one another, but having good female role models could change a lot for the current culture. I’m not going to argue that women don’t lack self-consciousness, but if there is someone saying straight to their face, “there is a better way.” Its a lot harder to ignore.
It is important to accept people where they are, I agree, but that doesn’t mean you can’t encourage them to be better men and women. That’s what this sub is really about.
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