Summary
Had my ass handed to me a lot these past few months when trying to maintain frame. Figured I'd share some of these experiences so that more novices can learn from my failures.
Simple shit-tests
Even if you're a novice you know what the essence of what your average shit-test is. However simply having the capacity to recognize that something is a shit test isn't enough. Twice now I've been given shit tests by women who were so attractive that I couldn't think of a response since I had put her on that pedestal. The worst of the two was when I noticed something sticking out of an HB9 coworker's back jean pocket
Me: "Hey you have something sticking out of your back pocket."
Her: (looks seductively at me over her shoulder) "Are you looking at my butt?"
Me: "No! No, I was just pointing that out cause it looked odd." (rushes away)
The best way I can relate this story to someone reading this is imagine the hottest celebrity you can think of. Now imagine she is coming on to you as hard as that, right now. You need to be prepared for that sort of interaction mentally because it will happen with a woman who you'd never think would be interested.
Girls will try to trick you with clever shit-tests
If I had to point to my biggest failure with frame it would be this. Letting a girl trick me with a shit-test. I actually didn't realize I was falling for the same type of shit-test until it happened for the third time in a row. Although I'll add one of the instances so you can try spotting where I went wrong. This was me talking to an HB8 about going to see The Last Jedi (I had made a fb post that I wanted to see it at least 4 times)
Me: "Just going to like all of my posts without saying hi? So rude"
Her: "Hi"
Her: "Wanna see Star Wars?"
Me: "Lol again?"
Her: "You said four times"
Me: "Fuck yeah I did. So when are you in town anyway?"
Her: "I'll be in town tomorrow again through January"
Me: "So Monday then?"
Her: "Lol maybe"
Her: "If you do really wanna see again. HMU Monday"
Monday
Me: "Afternoon, ready to party?"
Her: "I might be seeing disaster artist today"
Me: "Ight later"
Catch it? I didn't when it happened. I used this example for two reasons because it is hard to spot but also because a close friend of mine who is also friends with her (but my loyal bro) later told me that she's been dabbling in these sorts of social mechanics I correctly suspected were at play. Meaning that I now know this is what happened without a doubt. So if you're still confused at where I went wrong it's when I caved at "Fuck yeah I did." She knew I wanted to go see it with her so she was seeing how easily I'd cave to see it with her. Since her tone completely changed shortly after I agreed to go see it with her. She was using the hangout as a shit-test because she did not plan to see the movie with me to begin with because she only wanted to know if I'd go see it with her. Instead of taking the role of leading from her I became a follower in her little game of "Lets go see Star Wars".
It became obvious after I failed this sort of shit-test the third time when a girl wanted weed from me and offered to meet me at a local mall. I'd been trying to hang out with said girl for a while but to no avail so I jumped at this opportunity but again we never met up. I started realizing that girls will suspect that you are emotionally invested so they'll bait it out of you with the prospect of hanging out with them etc.
Conclusion
Shit-tests are more complex than something that shouldn't be taken seriously. They also stretch into things that appear as being a true intention such as wanting to see a movie. I'm still going to fail many more times until I get the hang of it but if this knowledge helps even one person I'll be happy.
Edit: Shout out to you guys in the comments, even helped me learn a lot in return
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
You have to be aware of this dynamic with women. With men it means "I want to, do you want to too?" With women it means literally "Do you want to see star wars with me, but I am not committing to wanting to see it with you". You also get it with "are you horny?"... you say yes, and then she says she isn't. It's a validation trap.
They won't be vulnerable in terms of expressing a preference first, but will bait you into it. Sometimes it's validation seeking, but sometimes it is genuine interest in a way that avoids her being vulnerable.
The solution is simple: fall for it (while leading).
More positively: escalate to find out. For example: "Yeah, I wanna see Star Wars... let's go Monday".
If she then says something that implies "I am glad you want me, but I don't want you" then you ditch her like a hot rock.
If she was genuinely interested she'll go. If she's validation seeking then she won't and ...... next.
You filter women for interest quickly and efficiently by escalating.
snowmoose1 5y ago
Being new to TRP, can someone give me some examples of a LTR shit-tests? Probably pass/fail them subconsciously but can’t really identify them so well.
TreelongaLeela 5y ago
This doesn't get covered enough. Obviously there are a million ways to pass a shit test but you have to know when it's not worth it. Passing tests is just a part of the game, when a woman is attracted to you she won't make it that hard in my experience. She'll present shit tests more as opportunities than road blocks if your overall looks/charm are attractive. When she's just playing games for the sake of playing games with no intention of escalation then go back to your trusty abundance mentality and find a new one to game.
zyqkvx 5y ago
This is a good ole days style post. good to see
lagerea 5y ago
Framing intent not invitation is how I've thought of it lately. "I'm going to go watch star wars, you seem like you'd be interested in that" leave doubt to her agency under your suggestion. What she is left with is your decision or the feeling that she made the wrong choice.
p3n1x 5y ago
Too many words, TLDR for woman brain. Regardless of who you leave the doubt with, your version smells of outcome dependence. The key is, it doesn't matter if she goes.
"I'm going to Star Wars tomorrow", nothing more.
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
I see what you mean, but I think leading is better. "I'm going to watch Star Wars on Monday... come along"
[deleted]
Saberinbed 5y ago
This is not true at all. I met a girl who had a boyfriend at the time. We went to the same gym. A couple days after meeting and talking to her, she texts me asking her to come makeup shopping with her at a mall. I obviously turn her down, and tell her thats not something a man does. She was shocked. This chick was an HB9 nursing student asian. She said no one has ever said no to that. We fucked 5 days after that.
wanker7171 5y ago
You'll like this. So! In my post I mentioned how I was adamantly sure Star Wars girl was playing games. It was due to her having talked to my male friend about it. We were at a party (our clique from high school) and she asked our friend to hold her drink or something and he basically said no. She went walking with him outside alone and told him that out of all of us he was the only one who would reject her before getting into how she likes testing people's intentions.
[deleted]
Schwifty007 5y ago
Quick question, pretty sure I got this test yesterday and wanna know if I could handle this better:
Talked to this girl I've known for a while (not that well though) about a park, says she's never been there and neither have I. Suggest we can go there, some jokes follow from both sides about said park. Later that day, at night:
Me: so are you interested in going to X?
Her: oh, you really want to go?
Me: yeah
Her: I thought it's up for the next studying group trip isn't it. (She kinda looked baffled for some reason, probably didn't expect me to answer that way?)
Me: nah, another park is
Her: ah no this one's an option as well.
I read that as: I'm interested in going, but not with you. Pretty sure this was a shit test but curious if I could've responded in a better way instead of just clearly showing my intent. Did take my loss/her lack of interest and moved on of course, not wasting more time on someone not interested in me.
(Heard from a friend later that night that she's been talking about 30-35yr old co-workers she's seen/met at her internships, so this kinda confirmed my thoughts again)
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
Not ideal - you're asking for her interest/permission rather than leading.
See how she's bouncing responsibility/desire/interest levels back onto you so she isn't vulnerable?
She's gauging interest and hedging her bets.
She's keeping it factual.
I read it as "I might be interested but would have to be lead there".
If you're not been alone with her before, a park isn't a good place to start.
You showed zero intent.
You maximise your results (and your time-saving rejections) by escalating/leading.
Look, as a matter of lifestyle: LEAD WOMEN, do not try and gauge their interest levels first. Stop trying to avoid rejection - women detect this a mile off and it makes them feel vulnerable and you look scared and unattractive.
If you like her, lead her.
Here's another way:
"I'm thinking of taking you to park X with a pint of cider and elastic bands to shoot at strangers" [don't wait for reply, follow with] "Wait... are you an axe murderer?". [she'll deny it obviously] "It's fine if you are" [she'll deny it more] .. "Well... maybe... but we're meeting in a public place first. Cider or wine?"
It's still not going to always work... but you want to both escalate and make her qualify herself to you. You want to lead and you want her buy-in, and you don't get that by asking if she's interested... always assume some level of interest from her.
If no dice, move on.
SteveStJohn 5y ago
This is why Senior Endorsed.
[deleted] 5y ago
Reading this helped me understand why I get laid. Thanks!
Luckyluke23 5y ago
reading this helped me understand why I'm NOT getting laid. Thanks!
FOODYUMONION 5y ago
Same lol I did the same as OP but actually met her and banged. Some chicks and serious so roll with it to find out if not fantastic means you can move on to the next hoe
[deleted] 5y ago
A few people have commented and deleted the comment, I’m not the most attractive guy, I eat a lot and don’t work out as much as I should and wondered why women seem to so readily hop in my bed when I try and this comment is why.
When they get me with “do you want to go see it with me?”
I hit them with “I’m going to watch it tomorrow. You can be there or not be there” then I end the conversation. I want to say 8/10 times they show up even if they are “out of my league”
willowhawk 5y ago
Must be doing other stuff right if they're asking you in the first place
[deleted]
[deleted]
Cant_Tell_Me_Nothin 5y ago
Completely agree. Something as simple as leading with "let's go Monday" instead of asking "So Monday then?" makes a big difference in how the frame plays out. Also after the girls says "I might be seeing disaster artist today", there is no reason why you shouldn't re-frame that as it still being an opportunity to hang out with her, and you probing for more, or at least send her a quick "gay" reply. This guy gave up way too quick.
MobileInspector 5y ago
be careful if you're dealing with a sjw type. they like to blow shit like this way out of proportion
TheTruePirate 5y ago
Great way to vet sjw types..
[deleted] 5y ago
How? Without looking desperate to hang out?
Cant_Tell_Me_Nothin 5y ago
You can frame your response in a way that signals she’s the one missing out on hanging out with you. Like I said before a simple “gayyy” would’ve been better. The fact that she uses “might”, and the fact that she is still planning on going to the movies are still openings from her. Sometimes girls also test you to see how easily discouraged you get, and if you easily do it is seen as weak. “Ight later” is such a reactive and defeated response
edit: the problem doesn't start here though. His problem started earlier in the conversation, by seeming desperate, and by inviting her first when she was the one who brought up the movie conversation. If she brings up the movie conversation, let her continue on with an invitation.
wanker7171 5y ago
I was convinced she didn't want to go that Friday night after I reevaluated how quickly her interest died after I caved to see it. So when she said that, my response was my way of saying "If you are going to pull this shit than I don't want to see it with you." Since I had mistakenly thought we were just two friends hanging out but I should've stuck to my RP gut that she didn't see me as a friend.
zyqkvx 5y ago
No, you are teaching yourself to be bitter. The trick is say something esque of not bitter and simply accept there are endless women out there and you just got a few more data points.
tl;dr If text 'gay' and walk away you will feel weak later for saying that. If you text something not bitter or nothing then next her you don't have carry on luggage for the next one.
Cant_Tell_Me_Nothin 5y ago
Most people nowadays understand that gay is said in a playful/teasing way. Maybe you could say “gayyyy” instead. Plus saying it to a girl is even more playful because girls don’t take the word gay as an insult, but as a tease
h_keller3 5y ago
I think most would read that as immature
Cant_Tell_Me_Nothin 5y ago
Everyone knows that teasing and treating women like grown up children is an important aspect of game
h_keller3 5y ago
Yeah but not acting like a child
Cant_Tell_Me_Nothin 5y ago
Using the word “gay” as a tease is acting like a child. Ok
lilpharmatic 5y ago
Ya I don't even want to fuck with girls who think like that lol
[deleted]
Entropy-7 5y ago
I love the term "Amused Mastery" but it is so difficult to define and so hard to lock down and so hard emulate. I can do it and have done it but context is everything.
Immolator1989 5y ago
“Mhm” “Maybe” “Nah”
With a half smirk and some eye contact thrown in.
“Ohhh (insert female name)...” with a smirk and a slight head shake, followed by some physical and verbal escalation. Just act like you know what she’s up to, and assume she wants to fuck. No need to get technical.
FOODYUMONION 5y ago
This seems to be an advanced shit-test or shit-test from girls who believe their SMV is a lot higher than yours. Probably need to run some qualifying to boost your SMV
Ganadorf 5y ago
Many men fail shit tests because we are naturally wired to over-think and spit out logical conclusions. Yet we, the individuals on this board, have to over-think shit tests even more albeit at a different angle to game the system women have naturally created. Only once you've thought yourself to death over these interactions will you learn that not giving a fuck in the first place arguably gives the best results. Curious, isn't it?
Reaper1967 5y ago
Exactly right. Back in school I used to have girls chase me like nobody’s business. Half the time I never realized it because I truly didn’t give a fuck, I was too busy doing my thing. When I did actually want a girl it wasn’t hard to pull. Granted I had no idea about red pill or anything back then, just a guy chasing his passions.
Got married, killed it for a few years, became severely beta (I did what I was “taught”, to be a “good man/husband”) and she took me through the ringer. Cue depression and losing touch with myself (more than I already had being married for the years I was).
DGAF really is the key, it can be said many ways; whatever it takes to personally ingrain it in your mind, do it.
mmerijn 5y ago
The answer is DGAF while still being able to read the social cues and not going too far all the time, to quote u/nebder a few comments up:
Prysefighter 5y ago
Same man. Had girls fawn over me in school and didn't even realize it until looking back later, just was more interested in other things than amassing a body count. Married from 19 to 26, cheated on a million times, didn't stand up for myself, finally grew a pair....you know the story. Was hard to return to the game with that weak married mindset. Had to learn to get back the ability to not gaf.
Reaper1967 5y ago
Yeah, I still slip from time to time, but getting the attitude back was key. I’m even stronger than before though, because I’ll never fall down the rabbit hole of LTR and/or marriage again. I’ve learned that I’m much happier going through girls than constantly adjusting myself to fit them into my life.
[deleted]
[deleted]
[deleted]
askmeanything2 5y ago
Excellent thread and comments, thanks everyone, three additional things
Communication is mostly not about the words, and at work careful with the words, so:
"Are you looking at my butt?"
"No, I would never, ever, ever, do that" (said in a playful, fun tone, making an eye contact if possible, to indicate you are lying through your teeth)
Validation seeking: use pressure flips
"Wanna see Star Wars?"
"You can only go if you pass my Stars Wars trivial test, and, just warning you, the last three failed as its not trivial"
Most of all, have fun with shit tests, even if you fail if you had a blast doing so who gives a fuck
[deleted]
ZeroSixNiner 5y ago
Work situations can make for some unavoidable awkwardness. I've got a girl I work with that I've mentioned in other posts that I wouldn't have any problem with plating were it not for the golden rule of shitting where you eat.
For me, this is the conundrum. Picture the little cartoon angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other. If I saw something sticking out of a girl's back pocket and her ass was easy on the eyes, the angel would be beating me over the head screaming "DO NOT SWYE!", while the devil would be going "But dat ass, doe". The angel would retort, "It's not worth it!", with the devil's reply being "BUT DAT ASS!"
The real world effect would be one of paralysis. I know the rules-- both my own and those enforced by Human Resources, but I am still a sexual being and am affected by the pleasing appearance of other sexual beings who I find attractive. I both want to tap "dat ass, doe" and remain gainfully employed. The former brings short term pleasure, the latter brings longer term stability and thus wins out. But the conflict remains to the very end.
So in this example, I would have likely gone a little overboard with the disagree and deflate reaction with a high level of defensiveness in order to not put my job at risk. Whether or not this is the correct way to respond in terms of the red pill, I can't say. It's just hard to risk the implication of anything sexual in the gynocentricity of the modern corporate workplace.
Future_Alpha 5y ago
Tell her your ass is better and hers is "okay". That way you get her to hamster and not get into trouble with HR
yungassed 5y ago
There is an inherit issue with becoming defensiveness though, especially regarding a woman attractiveness. Doing so almost always is perceived as an admission of guilt, even if you weren't. Why do you feel the need to justification your actions so much if you weren't doing anything wrong?
A similar situation is when someone prematurely apologizes for a joke that could be taken the wrong way before anyone actually got offended. The target of the joke may just thought it was funny and not have taken it badly, but the fact they apologized already put the idea into their head that maybe they should be offended, because why else are they apologizing. "They must have done something offensive that I didn't notice, otherwise they wouldn't have felt the need to do so". However, the premature apology, or even the apology in general, normally comes from a place of insecurity rather than actual fault. That is why un-confident people tend to get into way more trouble with HR compared to confident people which seemingly get away with murder.
Its also why Trump did so well in his campaign and in the media. He was completely unapologetic about his statements and did not feel the need to defend them. Oppose that to anyone else that did something that 'could' be perceived as offensive, regardless if it is or not. They make a public apology in the media, and then are often eaten alive and have their careers destroyed as result.
Hell, in the US, there have been numerous court cases where people get into car accidents and the innocent party gets successfully sued because they said sorry reflectively due to being well mannered after the accident. The court takes it as a admission of guilt for the accident even though in later review, it was clear the suing party was at fault.
It takes a very refined social intelligence to know whether it is beneficial to apologize or not, and until someone gets there, i'd say its better just never to do so. And even if you do reach that point, I would still reserve apologizes to direct individuals who you have a close relationship to such as family and friends.
An apology is breaking frame and falling into theirs. Even if you were wrong, you have to weigh the pros and cons of breaking frame against the damage not apologizing would cause in the relationship. Hence why it should be reserved for people to genuinely care for, because for almost ever other situation, maintaining frame is more important and creates more optimal results.
ZeroSixNiner 5y ago
I get what you're saying, but I was talking about the context of the workplace. Anywhere else and the defensiveness and need to feel apologetic goes out the window. It's the unfortunate plight of those of us who must work for someone else that we have to abide by their rules, no matter what our nature is. That's why the most red-pilled thing a person can do about their job is to go into business for himself.
yungassed 5y ago
Id say it's even more crucial in the work place. My example still stands. You're right that its just better to go about your own business but i f you make an off comment by mistake (mistakes can happen, we are only human), DO NOT appolize. Women are to weakness as a shark is to blood. They will see that weakness and go for the throat.
I'm also not saying that by not apologizing that you will get away with it, you might not. But by apologizing you are almost ensuring that you will not get away. The odds are in your favor to just not do so.
Could also always go the VP, Mike Pence, route and never be in a room alone with a female.
kyzen142 5y ago
Damn that was a very interesting read.
woodie_wood 5y ago
Hindsight is 20/20. Shit tests are subtle communication from women that passively get them the answers they want without exactly asking the questions. Women cannot take rejection.
Agree and amplify. All u need to know when it comes to shit tests. Don’t take it so seriously bro. They can smell that like 3 day unwashed cooch in the dessert.
Were u staring at my ass? Yes I was it’s completely blocking my view.
Do u really wanna watch Star Wars or just get laid? Be true to yourself and your intention, in other words maintain your frame.
wanker7171 5y ago
My biggest issue is most of my life I've been a super analytical guy. I equated being honest to being analytical and lying with dishonesty. Unfortunately since joking is a non-serious form of lying I've never been able to joke things off. Meaning whenever I am tested I have a gut response to be honest since I didn't have the tools to react any other way. Although within the last year my humor has improved ten fold. Just today at work I walked in only to find the two hottest girls I work with waiting to clock on. They both exchanged different kind of shit-tests that I passed easily, and it's all the proof I need that I'm breaking these BP habits of being terrified when an attractive girl wants to chase me.
majaka1234 5y ago
Go with sarcasm.
It's the witty man's humor. It allows you to tell the truth with a tone that makes it sound like you're full of shit.
With that being said, you're halfway projecting your own morality into a world that doesnt adhere to that same standard when you're talking about being incapable of not telling the truth.
In some things that's admirable but most social situations don't call for the cards to be on the table.
wanker7171 5y ago
Even with sarcasm though the core thinking of it is "I'm not being serious" and my brain was always thinking in that serious analytical way. Thank god I dropped that mindset.
Before I discovered TRP I adamantly believed the key to being attractive was simply improving my humor. Discovered a program called "High Status Humor" in high school through this annoying online popup ad that came up when I was watching porn and it caught my eye because it was promising everything I wanted to know without saying the cheesy bullshit of "Do this one trick!". Ended up torrenting it because I'm a cheap asshole. At the time I couldn't really comprehend the material because I was that bad at socializing. I ended up revisiting it in college and as someone who's comedic skills were non-existent I now credit it with opening my mind to humor.
[deleted] 5y ago
[deleted]
[deleted]
beetle-eetle 5y ago
My initial reaction to the ass comment:
Walk up in front of her so she can see your face
"I suppose I'll let you look at mine so it'll be even."
Said with a semi serious tone and exaggerated facial features.
wanker7171 5y ago
Lol that’s good, although later I thought I should’ve said “You call that a butt?”
beetle-eetle 5y ago
Haha that would work too.
I don't know why I'm getting down voted.. this would get a laugh and laughter is the quickest way to flirt with a woman, imo. It is also a very confident move, something women pick up on.
zyqkvx 5y ago
Ok, the shit test is..
her: Want to see star wars?
You know it's a validation trap, which means there's a good chance she already knows she's not interesting.
So, point blank, fellows: What are some experimental shit test replies that might turn the situation around.
My offered response is: "I don't know, you seem like your flakey with your friends"
sourmonkeytroll 5y ago
“Validation Trap” is a perfect description.
wanker7171 5y ago
I really like that response. I said “lol again?” because I thought it was a trick but it was just another way of saying “Wait really?” Although with your response I’d be communicating that I know her game while putting her in a position to start qualifying herself.
cornylamygilbert 5y ago
eh not a fan of either
something along the lines of "with you tho? I mean maybe if you're getting the tickets. But there's that bomb gelato shop nearby too tho"
amused mastery
and see if she grabs one or the other. bam 2 dates in one or she suggests drinks or you do.
it's the: idk I mean maybe you're cool, but I want a few things so sweeten the deal a bit
you're a challenge and you get what you wanted plus some anyway. She gets what she wanted, has to earn it a bit and is satisfied when you end the date satisfactorily.
idk giving them a lil shit to amuse yourself is both fun, funny, and universally recognized and a subtle qualifier.
Give chicks a lil shit and don't be a push over. But amuse yourself--you both get a kick out of it
zyqkvx 5y ago
Wow, you nailed what I was thinking like a mind read. I haven't tried that line so I don't know what would happen. Took me about 2 min to calculate. I wouldn't have been able to say that one on the spot.
hotlinedubai 5y ago
reading this helped me understand why I'm NOT getting laid. Thanks!
wanker7171 5y ago
Honestly the main thing that'll help you get laid is creating attractive humor
djh860 5y ago
For shit test one:
When a woman says something to me that catches me off guard I always look her right in the eye for more than a blink to get a quick read.
TheRoyalDonkey 5y ago
Haha what chumps you guys are .
nebder 5y ago
You’re starting to get the high level view of the game. It is all just a game. Play to win and play to have fun. Once you start getting the hang of it you’ll enjoy strong clever opponents.
Her submission is much more gratifying when you beat her fair and square and she knows it. You must realize that she wants you to win if she feels any level of attraction to you. Mind you not everyone will be attracted to you as well. You’ll learn to recognize when to nope out.
The next phase is realizing “everything is a test but not everything is a test” You have to learn when to dial back jerkboy shittest smashing and when to ramp it back up. There will be pockets in the seduction phase where it’s not powertalk or shittests and they’re legit questions. You want to answer these keeping mystery about yourself but this is where you can connect on a human level. If you’re 100% fuckboy vibe you might get the ONS but you won’t get repeat business from her. Gotta toss in some comfort so she feels both safe from that and willing to follow your lead from being a man in charge. That’s where you hook them.
Final thought is that it’s good to recognize your Ls and introspect on what you did wrong. Take the lesson to heart then move on. Don’t agonize or beat yourself up. We make mistakes, we learn and go on with our lives.
geekington 5y ago
Any tips on how to discern the difference between the shit tests and the legitimate questions? This is what I have trouble with the most
[deleted] 5y ago
Yeah. Get off of TRP and get a fucking clue. Recover before it destroys you.
hepahepahepa 5y ago
Not be invested emotionally in girls you are in the first stages with and just ignore if it's a shit test or not. This isn't a battle of the minds, you are just looking for someone to complement your life. I think most guys on this sub are just concerned with screwing hot whores and are willing to put up with this for some reason.
nebder 5y ago
You’ll get there with more social experience. A conversation is fluid and dynamic so giving hard and fast rules is counterproductive. What you’re looking for are pivot points in the convo. The tone, context and/or demeanor will subtly shift.
A recent example is I was bantering with a gal I knew somewhat from running in similar circles. She was a looker and used to having men fawn over her. I played cocky jerkboy getting called out for it and she’s having fun with it. She pivots to something like hey can I ask you a question with a straightforward look and an earnest tone. I gave her a smartass answer and she withdrew wanting to ask the question. Backpedaled a bit on my end and gave her permission to ask the question yet I had already messed up the moment. Changed the subject and moved on from it. I took asshole game too far in that instance. You don’t have to bat 1.000 so you’re allowed some whiffs yet they will add up if you keep missing.
ddponti 5y ago
"Can i ask you a question?"
"You just did!" ;)
[deleted] 5y ago
[deleted]
nebder 5y ago
It came up later. She was gauging my discretion levels to see if I was going to spout off that I was fucking her. Our circles overlap.
yummyluckycharms 5y ago
Some of you guys are missing an important golden opportunity with a shit test - you can always reverse shit test her to see what her intentions are
Example:
Her: do you want to go see Star wars with me?
You: depends. I was going to go with a group of guys that I know from work that are really into it, but whats in it for me if I go with you?
Her response A: oh thats okay - just go with them
Her Response B: If you go with me, I'll pick up the tickets and maybe you can pick up the drinks before hand?
If a woman wants you, she wont make it hard for you - nor will she pass up an opportunity to hang out with you alone. From Response A, maybe she liked you or not, but clearly not enough to offer something for your time in exchange. Such low commitment also means high probability of flaking. Screens her out immediately.
Response B is much more promising - not only because it shows her willingness to invest, but also when drinks are involved, she's starting herself on the path to letting her inhibitions go.
In either case, the reverse shit test is an effective screening tool that cant be ignored for men who have a shortage of time
wanker7171 5y ago
I don’t know why I didn’t read this earlier but that’s some pretty sound advice, thanks for putting in the effort
ImpressiveDig 5y ago
great advice, this makes alot of sense!
zyqkvx 5y ago
This is an insightful post coming from who I perceive to be a 20 year old, smoking dope no doubt.
SMRII 5y ago
Why would anyone listen to someone who likes The Last Jedi? That movie Is a BP wet dream
wanker7171 5y ago
I’d argue it’s more BP to disregard what you like to try and seem cool. If you like something nerdy how cares? Own that shit.
SMRII 5y ago
Well you really can argue whatever you want when you just make up whatever you feel like. I didn't say anything about star wars being nerdy. Last Jedi was a dog shit of a film that took everything that was grrat about SW and flushed it down the toilet and replaced it with SJW garbage
[deleted]
EthiopianNutella 5y ago
are shit tests done intentionally?
wanker7171 5y ago
For the majority of confident girls I'd say no. They do it as a way to find guys who display confidence, social awareness, among other attractive traits. At least in my experience I've found women are much more attracted to what you say than how you look (that's not an excuse to not to take care of yourself though).
[deleted]
beetle-eetle 5y ago
Yes and no.
Anyone can shit test intentionally, if they want to know what the other person will do and thus learn their motives.
Once someone becomes practiced at this they will do it more subconsciously, with generally the same aim. At this point it's used to determine motive, intent, sexual market value, dominance or lack there of. It becomes part of the routine after awhile.
We can do it to women, too.
[deleted] 5y ago
This is why I struggle with women and this is why I pay escorts for sex rather than gaming girls.
It is hard enough for normal people to understand shit-tests so try being someone with autism (diagnosed, from 4 years old) who is intelligent enough to doubt his own interpretation... it is just impossible. I like things black or white. On or off. 1 or 0. Not somewhere in the middle of a shit test.
The problem is women sit there and say "no means no" but it seems like they want no to mean yes when it comes to interpersonal dynamics. If they are attracted to you ofcourse. If not its sexual harrasment. How do you find out if they are attracted to you? By "harrassing them"... :headagainstbrickwall:
wanker7171 5y ago
as someone who until the past few years equated honesty to good and lying (joking) with bad I absolutely empathize with this. When a coworker tells you that you drove into the parking lot too fast, you feel like apologizing or disagreeing. It's hard to hear that and know "She's toying with me."
I don't have autism but a technique I use is I actively tell myself anything anyone says is a lie (joke). Obviously you're not suppose to act on that for every encounter but actively being prepared for a shit-test will help you train your subconscious to be ready more often.
edit: SP
cuntrolbot 5y ago
Does autism prevent you from learning a second language?
yungassed 5y ago
You are right, no means no and should be left at that. The trick to never ask a question or put them in a situation where they have to say no. Rather lead the interaction in a way where they are the one says yes they want it. Its all about the way you frame your words so they are guided to answer in certain way.
Dont ask a question where the answer could be yes or no. DO NOT ask if she wants to have sex. Rather just state "I want to show you something in my bedroom", or "I'm going to lay down on the bed". There is no opportunity for her to say no. That does not mean she will follow you there every time, but if she doesn't, it still leaves room open for you to attempt again. Opposed asking a question to have her explicitly say no, then it is GAME OVER.
FlamingAmmosexual 5y ago
You looking at my butt?
Nootrophic 5y ago
Good. Some thoughts:
Don't justify shit: Even in a silly way. You're looking at her butt cause that's what you do, not because she put something there to attract attention. It doesn't matter if that's not what you meant. She'll take it that way cause she knows what she did. It justifies while humiliating her game rather than inflating it (at the start).
Less words: Try to say as little as her and on a tone that mismatch hers yet in a IDGAF amused way. A short amused answer opens up the game by telling her "Is that it? Bring it up" and makes her want to escalate that game to actually challenge you. The real opportunities are when she does and that comes next; try hard right away and you'll either make it ackward rather than fun, or she'll know right away that you care too much. Laconic and relaxed IDGAF that leaves plenty of place for her next move beats the kind of clever long answer that looks cool in movie but comes up as cheesy deja-vu for HB8+ (Not saying yours was that. It's actually good.)
"Good enough" quick examples:
You looking at my butt?
Gotta start somewhere.
Just the crack. (eye contact, silence, minimal smile)
You gonna be an ass about it? (dare)
Can't be lazy...
Nah, just an ass. (Amused, look her down. First to talk lose.)
It asked me a pass to the gym
My attention's spreading
You wouldn't understand...
<ignore> I'll be at the <bar/club name> tonight. You'd bring a friend?
And everything else too
They're not all great but it's part of the point: It's only the first move of the game, don't smash too hard and ruin it rather than open it.
Cant_Tell_Me_Nothin 5y ago
Even a simple "maybe" with a cheeky grin works great
[deleted]
[deleted] 5y ago
"You looking at my butt?"
"Maybe, would you hold it against me I was? ;)"
See what I did there?
[deleted]
Sumshot 5y ago
Why did you even say
> Me: "Lol again?"
I mean, you wanted to go a fifth time with her anyways right? In that case, just suggest a time that fits for you. She either goes with that or makes a counter suggestion which you (after some time to "check" if you are free) can agree with or not. Everything else means you can forget about her.
If you are reacting like you did, it can mean two things:
In case #2 you have just invalidated the reason she even talked to you. It's maybe not really the case but she could claim and you have no argument against it.
In case #1 you force her to offer you something to watch it with her because you don't want to watch it more than 4 times. Most girls don't want to do that. And if you don't force her to offer something, you are in the same moment validating her so hard, as it means like "I don't want to watch the movie but I will go because YOU are with me". It's obvious that this is a really bad idea, right?
So in my eyes that is not a shit test but rather a consistency/saneness test and you created the situation for her to test you by yourself.
wanker7171 5y ago
That was me not convinced that she was invested in going and giving her an out, essentially “Wait really?” We hadn’t hung out together in years so I was immediately on guard when that came out of the blue.
Sumshot 5y ago
I am actually not so much convinced of that RP theory about feeling like you are the price. But in this case I can see that it applies. Had you though "I am the prize, ofc she wants to go the cinema with me" you would have probably avoided all that. You had just asked and maybe she would have said yes but probably rather now (as you said she most likely had no intention from the beginning). But in either way you would have avoided the test, right?
wanker7171 5y ago
I’d really like to know why you don’t think being the prize is worthwhile. I’d like to take these next few paragraphs to explain how I see things like being the prize. Then lastly touch on what I should’ve changed with regards to that encounter
Forming attraction has to occur with an interaction of some sort. The best way is to have a social dynamic where you have the higher social status. Now there are so many dynamics you can create teacher-student, man-dog, etc etc. One that girls are not used to is being the one doing the chasing celebrity-fangirl. Now anyone can think of these sorts of dynamics in their head but that doesn’t give them attractive ways to begin conversation.
That’s where the next bit comes in, playing a character. In other words creating a high status/attractive intent in conversation to create humor. Being the prize is just one of those tools, granted you should not just default to using one otherwise it will become predictable. Another one that is also very effective I dub the “trickster” where you try and trick the girl into feeling silly (not in a mean way). At my work some time ago a coworker needed to know if anyone we worked with spoke Spanish as she was helping a Spanish customer. Out of view from the customer I told her **** does (an Iranian woman who obviously didn’t). She went and asked her and after being a little upset my response was to smirk and say “You believed me?” On another occasion I told a coworker she had something on her face with “No my left” then when she switched cheeks I said “My other left” so she’s chasing this non-existant thing on her face until I finally say “There’s nothing I was just bored.”
Mixing the two and you’ll get what happened to me the other day when I was training a cute HB7. We were helping one customer who looked very confused so I said “just ignore her she’s a trainee she’s just here to witness two adults talking, just pretend she isn’t even here” she just bowed her head and then we got to the second house. The person looked confused again but this time she jumped in to say “Oh I’m just the trainee just ignore me” I slowly turned and looked at her and said “Did I say you could talk?” She turned red after I said that
I think the best two criticisms in this thread for how I should’ve responded is the one that I shouldn’t have said “So Monday then?” since that’s essentially me asking for her permission (low status). The second is that I shouldn’t have thought of it only as a shit-test but the possibility of it just being her seeking validation, in which case I probably had no chance since there was no interest. The best suggested response I’ve seen was “I don't know, you seem like your flakey with your friends" since it calls her out for what’s going on (since I was pretty sure she was playing at the time, but I let my desire cloud my thoughts) and it puts her on the defenisive so she might qualify herself to me.
Again I think using those tools like the prize go hand in hand with formulating attractive dynamics with humor.
Sumshot 5y ago
I'm no English major so maybe I my wording was inappropriate. I think what you say is good. It's just that sometimes on this sub people tell others that "they are the prize". Obviously you are not always the price. But still, often people underestimate and hurt themselves so they should think higher about them even if they just force that. But I think it's not good to *always* feel like you are the *big prize*. Sometimes it's better to be a bit more realistic and feel like you are a small price or that you will be the price in the future but still working on it.
What you said was different to that. You are not saying that one should "feel" to be the price but just behave like it to make the smalltalk fun. I absolutely agree with that and use it myself.
About that you should not have said “So Monday then?” - that's also true. But still, think about it: what would have been the fastest way to see what she's about and to lose as little time while giving her as little validation as possible?
She has asked you already (which is a little bit suspicious on it's one but either she is fucking around or *really* interested). So I think just saying "let's go on X-day" would have been best. She has to show her cards then. Usually you would not be so direct immediately (at least I wouldn't) but _she_ asked you! So you either force her to show cards or you force her to commit fully ("Is that an invitation?" or something better).
If she then says "haha, no" or something like that, you validated her a bit, but at least you saved a lot of time and didn't give her much validation. If you want to prevent giving her any validation (because you are in anger phase) just force her to commit fully. But you will lose a good amount of girls that have good intentions but fear to commit so early.
wanker7171 5y ago
Now there’s playing the prize for humor and there’s having a high status mindset. I’d argue you should always have (or try to have) a high status mindset. For instance there was this girl who’d leave me on “read” all the time and just showed disinterest whenever we texted (as I was trying to arrange a hangout). Now a low status person would read that and think “She’s ghosting me” but a high status person would think “Wow she’s so shy” since he knows he’s really interesting and awesome. So I started framing our talks around her being shy and she even admitted she was nervous and I got multiple dates. Now I’ve used that in other situations but never show that you think like a low status, insecure person.
I agree that “Let’s go on X-day” is a good response too but the reason I thought that other response was better is because of three addiontal reasons. The first being I was suspicious from the start she was planning on flaking on me (which is what she planned on doing) so it would be me speaking my mind since I was too afraid (at the time) to call her on it. Secondly without setting a date (showing I want to go) it forces her to show she’s set on the comittment to go or that she wants to go. Lastly since we are in the same friend circle I knew I wouldn’t get a negative response to it.
TRPnab 5y ago
There was a good thread somewhere (I think by impala) about text game. Where you reply with fuck yeah an emoji would have been neat, baiting her to invest more time in ascertaining your opinion. If she doesn't reply, she's not interested and you haven't invested more than her. You replied enthusiastically and with twice as much as she had.
zyqkvx 5y ago
(this started as a reply and ended an exploratory mini rant)
Since women are largely socially welcome moochers they don't have a lot of the powers men do, they do have some great powers like saying 'no'. Women will test the grounds by making validation traps. They are testing to see who they can get. They catch and release. Their release looks like, "I might be seeing disaster artist today." Now she knows she can get a 20 year old of his type, so she moves on to see what else she can catch and release. Women have many mechanisms like this that most guys are completely clueless to. I can't say I've transcended that category. I've figured out several of them, but for some reason I can't retain the stuff I figure out for more than a few months when it's of this nature. I still understand but have trouble codifying.
gem.
Also, pulling her down when she's trying to climb on to the pedestal.
her: Want to see star wars?
<you completely see the validation trap. You don't care. There are endless women so you accept the next, but have an opportunity to do a Hail Mary for giggles>
me: I don't know, you seem like your flakey with your friends.
her: <who knows, maybe she will start chasing you or defending herself, or maybe she'll just get mad and leave. It doesn't matter>
wanker7171 5y ago
I'm not sure I'm following what you mean by codifying in that specific context
zyqkvx 5y ago
basically. I have an insightful glimpse and full understanding something, but I don't manage to put it in words in time. So when I need the info it doesn't rise to my conscience mind.
I learn something but don't retain it because it's difficult to put in to words.
JaspersChest 5y ago
What the heck, I now realize that this is what my ex gf did to me a month ago. She texted out of nowhere and asked if I wanted to go to Six Flags with her on their school trip, I said I'd like to and after that, she wasn't so enthusiastic about me going. Found out later that she couldn't bring a guest with her, she really didn't seem to mind. She already got what she wanted ????
yungassed 5y ago
There are 2 components of that statement. The first is that she doesn't receive the validation she is looking for unless you actually show up and go with her. The second is that she is forced to buy the tickets making her invest in the outcome. Do not give her the money in advance! Only repay her when you show up to come. The more you can get the person to invest in a certain outcome, the more THEY will put in work to make it happen. She will lose her money if you don't show up, so she will subconsciously act right towards you until you do so.
[deleted] 5y ago
Wait why not ? Can u summarize this for me
fartingaround 5y ago
I had a similar situation with a girl (who says her bf tracks her phone). She said "lets smoke a blunt and watch the incredibles 2" i said "wont ur bf track u down and beat ur ass tho?" Im prtty sure i fucked up tho lol cuz she hasnt hmu since except to send memes
EthiopianNutella 5y ago
meh.. i think you dodged a bullet.
yummyluckycharms 5y ago
Agreed - as a general rule - I find that its a no-no to date drug users. They tend to be pretty cray-cray
fartingaround 5y ago
Yea but shes got a nice ass and i wana fuck her. but ur right shes got issues which i why i think she keeps comming back into my life
[deleted]
Robin2Fast2Furious 5y ago
Great story and advice btw.
I would have been oblivious and still not cared if she wanted to see a movie or not. If I want to see a damn new movie, I will see it. If she joins, great. If not, I’m still seeing that movie.
extreme_aardvark 5y ago
“Are you looking at my butt?”
“Yes. (shit eating grin) You should leave that in your pocket so I can keep looking.”
Is that a good response??
cvillano 5y ago
If you want to get fired for sexual harassment
Lunchabel97 5y ago
Really depends on their sense of humor or how much you know the person
IrrelevantRaptor 5y ago
“Yeah it reminds me of my moms.”
[deleted]
WalterEArmstrong 5y ago
Me: "Hey you have something sticking out of your back pocket."
Her: (looks seductively at me over her shoulder) "Are you looking at my butt?"
Your Gawdammed RIGHT I was!
Rakosnik 5y ago
yeah I read the brand name on that ass of yours.
charbel97 5y ago
And what's the solution to this if you really want to hang out with this woman ?
AmateurObserver0 5y ago
If she's not actually interested then you're not gonna hang out with her. In OP's case she was looking for validation more than anything else.
Reaper1967 5y ago
Tell her what you are going to do, and invite her. She will say yes or no, either way it’s not in your control.
Cant_Tell_Me_Nothin 5y ago
Sometimes subtle changes in the words you use can make a difference. When she asks "Wanna see Star Wars?" and he's not sure what her motives are, all he could've simple replied with is "I do." Then the ball is in her court to follow up either with an invitation or something else. Him immediately following up with an invitation of his own when he wasn't even the one who brought up the movie conversation, I'm sure was seen as very desperate by her. Let the girl pursue you a bit.
Fishys5570 5y ago
^ Second this, I've realized I've also failed these, but can't really see a solution, because in reality you do want to go with them.
zealanderx 5y ago
Yes...
This is super common.
TheMoreYouKnowRight 5y ago
I have been thinking about this lately. But i couldn't specify and put it in words. Thank you for doing that!
macheagle 5y ago
Many thanks for this, OP! You have definitely helped me recognized some of the shit tests that I’ve encountered in the past, as well as some that I did not know (until after your post) were actually shit tests. Good stuff. Thanks bro.
wanker7171 5y ago
Happy to help, I want all guys to master this way of thinking including myself.
jobbbbinandjabbim 5y ago
Thanks for reminding me how much better I am in all facets of life than you