Original Tinder Guide HERE, READ THIS FIRST
This is my follow up to my Ultimate Tinder Guide I wrote a month or so ago. I've been slowly adding to this follow up since the initial post. Since posting the first guide I have been bombarded constantly with PMs and such, many of which raised issues that were not in my original guide that I thought were worth including in a new post.
NOTE: No I will not rate your profile or give you feedback on it. I don't have time for it, nor do I really care. Pretty much 99% of the "can you give me feedback on my profile" PMs I got, the answer was "You have shitty pictures" or "Your SMV isn't high enough". Everything else you need to know can be found in my Tinder guides. I already told you - if you aren't having success, its likely because your pictures suck.
If you do have additional questions, I will be happy to answer them in the comments section.
A GOOD PHOTO CONSISTS OF TWO EQUAL PARTS: ATTRACTIVENESS + EXCITEMENT
In my original guide I think I did a good job of touching up on how a good photo requires you to look somewhat attractive/high SMV, but one thing I do not think I address enough was the fact that a good picture is the sum of two parts: Attractiveness + Excitement.
Case and point: I used PhotoFeeler to judge my pictures. I selected my best 5 pictures, that all scored between 97-99% on attractiveness on PhotoFeeler. I put them all in my Tinder/Bumble profiles. I actually got less matches and less replies to my messages than before. The problem was while the 5 pictures all showcased my high SMV, they were all boring as fuck. None of them really portrayed me doing anything exciting, or being in exciting locations. High SMV/Attractiveness, from my experience isn't enough to get you by. Unless you are Top 1% Chad or something maybe it might be enough but I wouldn't know since I'm probably only Top 5%. Photofeeler is fine for judging your SMV, but it misses the excitement criteria.
Your pictures have to make her feel. By feel, make her feel excitement. Your pictures have to convey that you will give her excitement and you aren't a boring fuck. This can be accomplished by your photos showing you doing exciting shit or being taken in an exciting location. If she were to hang out with you, would it be fun? You have to show that through your pictures. I actually had a guy PM me with decent SMV, but his problem was that it looked like he hired a photographer to take a bunch of Tinder pics for him. They were all boring looking stock photo headshots. Not only did that make him look desperate, but it was boring as hell.
Not all of your pictures have to show you doing exciting shit or being in exciting locations. You probably need a pic or two to that is a more clear shot of you to accurately and clearly showcase your looks. It's about the right balance. Because on the flipside, it doesn't matter how exciting your pictures are if she doesn't know what you fucking look like, or you are not attractive/showing high SMV in them. You're still only as strong as your weakest photo. Both attractiveness and excitement are equally important.
One problem I see guys have when taking pictures in interesting/exciting locations is how fucking cheesy they look in the picture. Don't take a fucking selfie in exciting locations with a cheesy beta looking smile or fake alpha looking expression. One guy PMed me and he took a picture at some amazing looking location somewhere in Alaska but it was ruined with his dumb poorly framed outstretched arm selfie and his beta looking goofy smile. Whether you are smiling, not smiling, looking at the camera, looking away, just make it look natural, unforced and candid. Framing and pose matter. Girls won't give a fuck if you are doing something cool/exciting in a fun location if you look like a fucking dweeb in the photo.
You want my examples of my photos I use doing exciting shit? Here: Cliff Jumping, Hiking, Jet Skiing, Bowling, Having a Drink in my Las Vegas Hotel Room with the Strip in the Background. There. That's 5 good pictures showing me doing fun shit. The best part is that the average person wouldn't even know - I took all 5 of those pictures in and around the Las Vegas area. I'm not saying take a vacation or go on a trip solely for the purpose of getting good Tinder photos, but the best time to take these pictures is when you are on a vacation. If you can't, find the most interesting places/activities around you and do them and get pictures. Hiking, Rock Climbing, Skiing/Snowboarding, Boating/Watercrafts, Martial Arts or Boxing, Dog Pics, Kayaking, Mountains, Beaches/Beach Activities, Skydiving, just some examples.
Overall your pictures need to tell an overall story. A story about yourself. It needs to tell women who see your pictures that your life is exciting and you are a man of value. If your pictures are nothing but boring, even if your SMV is high, the story your pictures are telling is "this guy is boring". Girls just want to have fun.
AGE GAP.... MATTERS
One thing TRP teaches us is that age is just a number and older guys can easily bang younger women, and that if your SMV is high enough and your frame/game is on point, the younger women won't find it creepy or weird. All true. However, on Tinder and online dating in general, its different. Especially if you are a guy trying to go after 18-23 year olds and you are age 30+.
I know when I turned 30, its as if my Tinder success rate was cut in half, especially amongst that 18-23 age group. Age gap doesn't matter... in person. Because feels and tingles overrule a woman's brain. Plus, unless you tell her your age in person, she won't know, and will hamster you to be younger to give her plausible deniability. But on Tinder, your age is right there for her to see. There is no plausible deniability. And since its a lot harder to generate feels and tingles over Tinder to a girl as well as establish game/frame(unless you are a Top 1% Chad or High Status Male, maybe this isn't the case, but I wouldn't know), the age gap will usually be a red flag for her, and not be able to give her plausibile deniability.
You will have no problem matching with these 18-23 year olds, the problem will be getting them to reply to your messages or go out on dates with you. These women's guards are up a lot higher online and they are looking for reasons to disqualify you, and unfortunately age gaps will be a way for that to happen. Not much you can do about it, just keep playing the numbers game. If you really want these younger women, you'll have to game them in person.
The best method I have used to succeed with these younger women is to not try hard at all. Minimal investment. Don't even worry about openers or anything. Just open with her name only. If she is willing to go out with you at all, she will not give a shit about your opener and all you need to do is send a message or two before escalating to the opener. There's no point in trying to build rapport or anything because she's either open to it or she's not.
If you have Tinder Gold, don't hide your age. That's just creepy.
TWO TIERED OPENER APPROACH
Based on my experience your opener needs to be tailored based on how you perceive the woman.
The younger and more "immature" she looks, the less your opener matters. With these women all I do is open with their name. Example, I match with a girl named Anna. My opener is "Anna". That's it.
The older and more mature they are(think 24-26 year olds) you need to be a bit more creative as not to seem like a player/douche bag to them. My Step 11 advice in my original Tinder guide applies here.
ESCALATE SOONER RATHER THAN LATER
Stop wasting your time. If a girl is interested she is interested, if not she is not. You need to get her number within 3-5 messages, and once you get her number, escalate to logistics immediately. Don't take the small talk/conversation/chit chat to text message and become her pen pal there. I've made that mistake too many times, thinking I needed to build more rapport. I wasted time and got ghosted. Fuck that. Rapport is overrated and should be done in your initial two or three messages. After that she is interested or she is not.
It's not a matter of rapport or making her feel comfortable, its a matter of time. If you keep stalling and wasting time another guy will make a move and you're shit out of luck. Plus the more you talk to her and the more she gets to know you the less interested she will be, that is a known TRP maxim/truth. You have nothing to gain and everything to lose by being her pen pal.
Usually once you escalate to a number is where you will get ghosted. That's fine. Means she wasn't interested. At least you wasted no time. The other ghost point is when you escalate to meet up logistics. Again, means she wasn't intersted. Keep her on the back burner and perhaps try again in a week or two.
WHEN SHE'S INTERESTED BUT NEEDS TO WARM UP TO THE IDEA OF MEETING AN ONLINE STRANGER
Online dating, especially apps like Tinder, have a bit different of a dynamic. There will be times where girls are totally interested in you, but are just not quite yet open/comfortable with the idea of going out with a stranger. She just needs a bit more rapport, comfort, and time to warm up to the idea. This is most prevalent with girls who have never gone out with a guy they met online or through an app.
If a girl is interested, but just feels like she needs more rapport/comfort to proceed, you will know, and you can take it easy from there. Don't ramp up the pressure, don't become sexual, don't completely withdraw, don't become her pen pal, just take it easy and reply to her conversation/shit tests like you normally would, with responses spaced out(3-5 hours after she messages you is a good rule of thumb). Generally these girls will ask you a lot of probing questions about yourself and be rather friendly as well as shit test you. Just play it cool, pass the shit tests, don't reveal too much, keep your responses short. The 75/25 and 2/3 rules apply here. Try to keep her doing 75% of the talking and make your replies 2/3 of the length of her replies. Keep in mind that these girls are open to meeting up with you, they are just trying to feel you out making sure you aren't a risk to them. It's hard to fuck this one up if you follow the 75/25 rule, 2/3 rule and space your responses out. The best part is, from my general experience, is that these girls will ultimately be the ones to push for logistics to meet up. Usually it takes 2-4 days, but they will be the ones to push for it. Be patient with them, and continue to play the field with others.
Girls don't ghost guys they are interested in. It's easy to spot the difference between a girl not interested and just using you for validation/boredom relief, and a girl who is interested but just needs a bit more rapport/comfort before wanting to meet up. Trust your instinct and gut here. Message length and engagement is usually the key. If her messages are longer and seem to be more engaged with you in conversation, chances are she's intersted. If you are getting a bunch of short messages that don't seem engaging and seem pretty dull/bland/generic, chances are she isn't.
WHY GIRLS MATCH YOU, TALK TO YOU, BUT WON'T GO OUT WITH YOU OR GIVE YOU THEIR NUMBER
I have a good analogy for this.
Take your average new guy here on TRP. He reads a bunch of shit about approaching and getting out there and talking to girls with cold approaches. So he puts on his best outfit, goes out to a bar on a Friday Night with the mission of approaching girls there. He tells his friends how he is going to get out there and approach and talk to girls. He envisions doing so in his mind, and it seems like it will be easy. He gets to the bar, sees girls he is interested in, thinks about approaching them, but never actually does. He chickens out. Because when it became real, instead of just a scenario he was playing out in his mind, he had second thoughts.
This is what happens with girls on Tinder. They download the app, match guys, have initial conversations with them. But when the guy escalates, they freeze and ghost him or reject him or give him some wishy washy response.
It's because the girl was OK with the idea of meeting guys on there in theory, in her mind, and that's what her intentions are. But when it became real, with a real guy, talking to her, and propositioning a date/meetup/phone number request, she hesitated and had second thoughts. It became real and was no longer a theory or concept or scenario, and she wasn't quite comfortable with it. Her interest level isn't enough to overcome the lack of comfort.
Either that, or they were just bored, looking for validation.
GIRLS ON TINDER FOR VALIDATION ONLY
A lot of guys bitch about them. There is no point. These girls exist and will always exist. Nothing you can do about it.
A NOTE ABOUT 9s and 10s
I'm talking about actual 9s and 10s here, not TRP 9s and 10s. I've noticed a lot of guys on TRP grossly inflate the HB rating of women. Example a TRP poster will say in his field report he fucked an HB9, but she was actually an HB6.
I have found that the 9s and 10s on Tinder are obviously the hardest to succeed with. They are the ones who will be on there for validation and to rope in more Instagram/Snapchat followers.
The main reason they are hard to game is because they don't need Tinder. They get showered with male attention everywhere they go. They probably have dozens of high SMV options at their fingertips at any given moment. They can walk into any bar or club in the area and have their pick of the litter of men. So why do they need Tinder? Probably to only find the highest of the highest tier of Chad. Giga Chad more like it. Or, validation and boredom.
I am not saying to not try with the 9s and 10s, but to be realistic with your expectations. I match with 9s and 10s, some will even reply to my messages, but in terms of actually going out with them? It doesn't happen very often. 7s and 8s are your Tinder Sweet Spot. If you want the 9s and 10s its best to do it in person.
DON'T OVERSWIPE
This is a big one. Even if you have Tinder Gold(which claims you have unlimited swipes). I destroyed my Tinder Account and had to create a new one because I overswiped. When you overswipe(in either direction), Tinder will assume you are a bot, and set your ELO score to 0. Meaning, your profile won't show up to anyone but the bottom tier of women in the area, even if you use a boost.
I made this mistake. I swiped too much too fast. I usually got about 20 new Tinder Gold likes in my queue per hour, but all of a sudden I was getting 0, maybe 1 every few hours. I did a boost and still got nothing. After some research it was because I had overswiped when I was bored at work one day. There is no recovering from this, all you can do is reset your account. So its best not to overswipe at all.
This is why Tinder Gold + Boosts work, because you don't have to worry about destroying your account and the likes come to you. However you still need to swipe in order to keep your ELO score high, if you don't swipe at all or swipe too little it will also hurt your score. I think 50 swipes total per day is a good number to shoot for to keep your ELO score honest, and if you choose, let Tinder Gold and Boosts do the rest.
This applies for Bumble as well.
HOW TO PROPERLY RESET/RESTART YOUR TINDER/BUMBLE ACCOUNT
You need to do this once you have new good pictures to use.
For Tinder the best way is to delete your Tinder account, completely delete the app from your phone, unlink any Tinder apps from Facebook if you used Facebook as a login, wait 48 hours, then re-download Tinder and use a new burner Facebook or new phone number(preferably not one you have previously used if possible) to recreate your account. If you use the same Facebook or Phone Number, you run the risk of tying your old account back to your new one, although I'm sure after a period of time it doesn't matter.
For Bumble its the same way, but you have to wait at least 30 days, if not more. This is because somehow Bumble keeps a "file" on you for 30 days, and if you remake your account or an account too similar to your previous profile, it will flag you and like with overswiping, your ELO score will be set to 0 and you won't be shown to anyone. I experimented with this and remade my account, with a different variation of my first name and 6 completely different pictures, but still somehow got flagged. They know. That's why you have to wait 30+ days for your file to go away. Then delete the app, unlink anything, and redownload, then use a new Facebook/Phone Number if you can for your new account. The best way to know if your account is in good standing with Bumble is the Beeline. Even if you don't pay for it, it will show you how many girls have swiped right on you. Naturally that number will go down once you swipe through your stack, but if you leave your Bumble alone for a while and the number stays at 0 or 1, chances are your ELO is shot.
NOTE: I strongly, strongly, strongly suggest using a phone number instead of a Facebook when making your Tinder/Bumble accounts. Here's why. I used a burner Facebook for my Tinder and Bumble, and somehow that burner Facebook got flagged as a spam account, and I was locked out of it permanently. Meaning all my Tinder/Bumble matches I was unable to access since you log into Tinder/Bumble using your Facebook, and since I was locked out of the Facebook, I was screwed. Use a phone number instead to prevent you from being locked out of Facebook. When signing up you can select the option for them to call your phone number for the verification code, this way you can use a landline.
THE MAIN DIFFERENCE WITH BUMBLE
Bumble is honestly my preferred app these days, because I have so much more success on there. With that being said, I define success by how many times I can get a girl out, not number of matches or conversations. With Bumble, girls are a lot more picky, and I mean a lot more picky. It's because the burden is on them to message you first, and so they will only swipe right on guys they would actually be comfortable messaging. On Bumble, for women, its not like Tinder where they just want the validation and dopamine rush from matching and to see who they match with. There is actually responsiblity for them that comes with swiping on Bumble, so they are not going to just see who they match with. That's what Tinder is for. Every girl I've matched with on Bumble has messaged me, I've never had the timer run out. I've almost taken out nearly every girl I've matched with on Bumble, with only a small number of ghosts/flakes.
The difference is that I get a much lower number of matches than I do on Tinder. The matches are fewer, but the matches I do get are almost guaranteed successes. Not much guesswork involved, the only challenge is getting the match. Once there you're most likely golden.
While Bumble doesn't delete inactive profiles from the stack, a way to know if they are active is if it shows how many miles away they are from you. If they are inactive, there will be no number of miles. Generally the number only lasts a few hours, so by active I mean "Having opened the app with the past few hours". Still, its better than nothing.
FOR FUN - TINDER GOLD STATS
So out of boredom at work one day I used the passport feature to set my location to a US City. I then watched my Tinder Gold queue pile up. When it got to 200 I stopped and tallied the results on a spreadsheet. Here were the results.
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63% (126 of 200) were overweight.
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33% (66 of 200) were obese.
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9% (17 of 200) were single moms who didn't hide the fact.
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40% (79 of 200) had trashy tattoos/piercings.
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5% (9 of 200) were what I call "gamut runners", meaning they are overweight, single moms, and have trashy tattoos/piercings. A triple spanking of disgusting.
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The average HB rating of these 200 girls I assigned was a 2.8 of 10. Yikes.
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My age range was set from 18-26 and the average age was 22.3.
- I would have swiped right on 7 of 200. One was a 9, Two were 8s, 4 were 7s. I don't swipe right on 6s or less. Meaning there were more gamut runners than women I would have swiped right on.
MUH, THIS IS TOO MUCH WORK, MUH
"Muh, that's too much work, muh, why would you put in all this work just to bang sluts on Tinder, muh" STFU and go back to MGTOW.
WHY WASTE TIME WITH TINDER, DO NIGHT GAME INSTEAD
You know you can do both, right?
ITS A NUMBERS GAME THAT REQUIRES A LONG TERM OUTLOOK
Guys it really is a numbers game. You have to wade through the piles of shit, but in the long run, it adds up to so many extra dates and lays that its worth it. Sow the seeds now. You may not benefit immediately or see success right away, but over the long run you will if you do things right. Stick with it. Remember, Tinder/Bumble are simply compliments to your overall game strategy, not the only game in town. It doesn't hurt to have them. Nothing to lose.
Don't be discouraged if you don't see immediate success. New women download these apps every day. New women will move to your area. New women will start using Tinder again after not having used it for a while. Be patient.
Nov51605 5y ago
wow - so i did the unlimited distance thing - right swiped two beasts so far 100 miles away and matched - happened on both tinder & bumble - LMFAO. that said - the hotter ones are showing up a lot close too
raptorman556 5y ago
When you open with just their name ("Anna" for example), how do you follow up on that?
mvnarachi 5y ago
Good guide.
What I am curious about: some people, including you, state that its good to delete the tinder account once a month. But I know a couple of guys that swear by having Tinder long term. They had enough matches, player types. They are in to Tinder now for about 2-4 years straight and said these things come long term.
What do you think about this?
Xhaka-Laca 5y ago
Great guide, I frequently reset my accounts and have been widely successful. The only problem is I have now run out of burner phone numbers, I can use Facebook but Tinder still requires you to add a phone number. Has anyone else figured out how to get multiple burner numbers?
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astrobrah 5y ago
Some bitch just bailed on me today, 4 hours before our date. "Sore throat" excuse. I don't know what pisses me off more: Their complete lack of remorse for knowingly wasting my time or the fact they think I'm stupid enough to believe that lame excuse.
Skyhawk_And_Skyhead 5y ago
To all the guys that still think tinder is for beta's; what else are you going to do whilst shitting?
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MobileInspector 5y ago
Great guide. Thank you. Just checking in to say to all of you that just read his advice of always using a new facebook/phone number, use this app called 2nd Line. Gives you a free phone number with free texts/calls in US/Canada with any area code you choose. You can change your number/make fake accounts as many times as you like with fake email services like temp-mail.org. Good luck out there boys
GainzdalfTheWhey 5y ago
u/mallardcove i have payed for tinder gold in the past and its still tied to my google account, for me to fully reset do i need to cancel my sub and create a new google account? Say i delete tinder account and link a new phone, but when i download through the playstore, wont they recognize the same account?
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
Not sure, its a good question but from my experience I don't think so.
circlingldn 5y ago
3.use stock photos of exciting activities LOL as long as your head is covered
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mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
Must be a sad life to create an alter account for the sole purpose of tearing people down on TRP.
camknight15 5y ago
Was all for it until you brought up the MGTOW bros.
Just kidding. Thanks for the advice. Will be resetting my Tinder account right now
gbosz34 5y ago
Also how do boosts actually work? Do you need to swipe when you boost also? Or just wait for after
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
Simply makes your profile show up at the top of everyone stack for 30 mins. No need to swipe
gbosz34 5y ago
Sorry if i missed it. Is tinder prime even worth it? Should i just be using gold plus boosts if i wanna spend money?
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
I use it. I think its worth it because you don't have to swipe, the likes come to you, and you can get the ball rolling with girls on your own schedule. Timing is important with Tinder so when you're ready to roll you decide when things begin.
gbosz34 5y ago
Oh i see, i was slightly confused and didnt realize gold was just an additional add-on to plus. Think im gonna hold off and just save the 5$ till next month, my gold stack has 3+ but i have a feeling its from when i was traveling, and im not headed back to those areas anytime soon. Im curious when i reset my account if i can use an app that gives me a fake number, seeing as how ive had tinder off and on for the last 6 years.
paprikk 5y ago
These are great guides, thanks a bunch!
I just wish you'd write more about the post-tinder texting portion. For example, how do you escalate from phone number to setting up a date? Do you text them everyday until the date? Text them while setting up the date then radio silence until the date, when you go "we still up for tonight?"
I've been quite successful at getting matches and quite successful at turning dates into something more..... I've been pretty miserable at turning matches into dates though.
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
Get phone number. That's key. No more than 3-5 messages.
Once you get phone number, escalate immediately in a text message. No more beating around the bush. Once the date is set, do not text them at all until the date except for a confirmation text a couple hours before your planned time.
paprikk 5y ago
I get that you open with the girl's name, that's good, I actually did it often too even before reading your guide. But in my experience 50% of the time you say Anna she responds with John (or whatever your name is), and 49% of the time she responds with Hii or something equally worthless.
What tends to be your followup opener, once your real opener didn't get a conversation going?
I realize this is a bad question, and that I would maybe be better off experimenting different methods and seeing what works for me. But I feel like the first and second line is so important at building early rapport and comfort, that I just had to ask you.
[deleted] 5y ago
Tinder is pointless if u don't follow 2 golden rules and u just proved it.
MoDuReddit 5y ago
1) Be attractive.
2) Don't be unattractive.
Everything else regarding tinder is salad dressing and best suited to PUA.
[deleted] 5y ago
'Nah, u r just bitter inzel'
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UnleashYourLife 5y ago
The Greatest Tinder Guide Ever;
Lift and Groom. I don't care how fucked you think you are aesthetically, just fucking do those things. Get a sculptured body. Get a nice haircut that fits your type of face - and if you still struggle, get some facial hair. That's all there is to it. And once you finally achieve all that, welcome to top 5%.
Look at this guy. Went from zero to hero. Got big, groomed himself and b00m - tinder slayer right there. That's all it takes.
At it's core Tinder is peacoking. You wanna play that game? Max your looks.
gooberpatrolll 5y ago
Your take from that photo should be to take good fucking pictures. Doesn't matter if he looked more cut in the right photo, if it was taken with the same camera and lighting as the left he'd look like a dweeb
FinallyRed 5y ago
Getting a haircut optimal for your face's shape, hairline, and hair thickness seems a bit hard to me. I don't know a thing about hair. My barber won't say shit, just keeps asking me what I want (probably because he doesn't want to risk me getting pissed off when it's done).
NeonLightMakerFlex 5y ago
Look at the before picture more closely the guy already worked out and was muscular he just cut all the fat covering his muscles.
[deleted] 5y ago
Too bad hes got a tiny pecker.
For real though, get the blood flowing through your muscles, not your dick, get the pump going,get swole. Etc.
BrownGummyBear 5y ago
That’s such a bad pic, left side is guy with bad lightning and expanded stomach, right side ya better lightning, a filter, the guy has perhaps cut some weight and dehydrated and he’s flexing instead of expanding his belly. That’s how some supplement brands like to fool newbies with their advertising lel
James_Rustler_ 5y ago
That guy simply went on a cut, he was muscular and well groomed beforehand.
FinallyRed 5y ago
Don't forget the lighting, filter, and cocky facial expression.
satlinrabbow 5y ago
thing is, it doesn't take more than six months to get that muscular, seriously, hes not really that big at all. your comment means nothing, there is no excuse. stfu and lift.
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
Your pictures still have to be exciting, though.
I both lift and groom and went through a Tinder desert when I selected 5 photos where the only criteria was how good I looked. Wasn't getting near as many matches or responses as I was before.
Lift + Groom + Exciting Pictures is the key.
[deleted] 5y ago
Can cooking be considered to be exciting? Also, I'm an athlete, in my college hockey team & a soccer club too.
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mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
Only if its something exciting and exotic(i.e. you are cooking something with massive flames coming off the pan)
Athlete pictures are fine but limit to 1. You don't want that to be your identity.
[deleted] 5y ago
Lmao if lifting and grooming would put u in top 5% regardless of genes, it would be to easy and paradoxily it would be top40% then.
That guy looks better on before than i ever will. Except the body, but face matters more than body.
TomasoJew 5y ago
Good facial and body genetics at the same time (good face symmetry, good hairline, strong jawline, facial hair, fit body like this guy, ect... you name it) will probably put you in top 3%.
This guy is right, having a fit physique and some masculine traits (facial hair, ect...) WILL put you in the top 5%. Litterally 95% of men is just lazy to get both.
StraightWhiteMaleLOL 5y ago
Can confirm. Am fat and lazy. Yet still manage to get dates and lays on Tinder/Bumble.
grewapair 5y ago
A fit physique helps, but an ugly face is difficult to overcome. I did better when I was fit, but with an absolutely rocking body, I still rarely did that well. I probably made it into the top 40%, not the top 5%.
You've seen a girl with a horrendous face and a blasting body, and it's still never that much of a turn on. I'm the male equivalent of that.
wainbros66 5y ago
Top 5%? Top 20 maybe - but if you’re short, balding, or whatever you’re likely ruled out of the top 5%
But honestly it’s no point in dwelling on that, people should just play to their strengths and not stress on percentages/others
[deleted] 5y ago
Cool so in 5years i should be top5%. I'll fucking use minoxidil or what d fuck that is. Cuz i'm litteraly obsessed with gym. And even if not, there are steroids. So looks like i'll be just fine... according to you. U haven't seen my face brah.
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[deleted] 5y ago
Nigga, i'm already lifting for 2years consistently and i look like your typical DYEL guy. I'm still KV at 23yo. Can somebody explain this to me?
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MaxwellGaine 5y ago
Your diet sucks and you lift like a bitch
Tenth_10 5y ago
"The 8th style... the forbidden style !"
[deleted] 5y ago
Brutal. I hope you're right. But how am i suppose to lift more if i fucking can't. Like litteraly not physicaly able to.
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Bonersaucey 5y ago
lmao is this how normies think lifting works? Dude you just go and lift heavier weight it isnt fucking complicated. What the hell do you mean you cant lift more weight, its not a question, just go in and do it
[deleted] 5y ago
I can't lift heavier no matter what, i'm too weak. If u could always lift heavier people would squat 10k lbs or smth... Lol
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[deleted] 5y ago
Waaay ahead of ya. I did made some gains, but i still don't think that is all.
FeralRed 5y ago
Then it's food or fuckarounditis.
[deleted] 5y ago
Food more likely, or low T or smth. I certainly don't fuck around. But rn i slowly really slowly progress.
[deleted] 5y ago
Fuck i look like a typical ME goatfucker when trying to grow...
[deleted] 5y ago
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[deleted] 5y ago
Fuck it, i'll let it grow a few days and i'll pm you and you'll see how fucked up it really is... Deal?
DubbleFUPAwitCheez 5y ago
Holy shit online dating has gotten gay.
[deleted] 5y ago
Just got back on the online dating apps after a long absence, and it appears that Tinder sucks now and Bumble has picked up the slack. I'll admit, I thought Bumble was a horrible idea because women never take initiative. In some ways its true, about 50% of my Bumble matches will disappear before they ever message me.
But for the ones that do message, there is this subtle shift in the power dynamic when they have to go first. A woman is so averse to rejection that once she opens with you she is really essentially surrendering herself. It really gives you a leg up because it feels like she is the pursuer and you are pursued from the beginning, which is a dynamic that rarely happens in reality. And I'll admit, it feels pretty damn good to see woman after woman message you first and try to game you with pickup lines!
Also, I'm in my late 20s now and I get tons of messages from girls in the 29-33 age range. Almost all of them say "no hookups" or "looking for something real" in their profiles. As much as feminism has fucked the world up for men, it has been equally bad for single women over 30. I genuinely feel sorry for these girls. Most of them are reasonably attractive and seem like decent people, and could have easily gotten a guy like me who was the same age to date and marry them when they were \~25. They were fed a basket of lies though, and now they are paying for it.
It's rarely too late for a newly red pilled man to turn things around and figure out how this brave new world works, but for these women it's just too little too late. I'm so sorry that this horrifying and shortsighted ideology has cost you so much. You were lied to by your parents, your peers, the media, and popular culture. You will now remain single for the rest of your life or settle for a man that you secretly despise. I really am sorry, but there's just nothing I can do to help you.
"Only now, at the end, do you understand." - Emperor Palpatine
ayylma088 5y ago
Bumble pretty much doesn't exist in Germany.
We have Badoo here (pointless waste of time), Lovoo (Not enough users) and Jaumo (Full of fakes/bots)
...
So all that is left is Tinder. And with the inflated ego of retarded German Feminazis even Tinder is not much fun anymore
the_one_tony_stark 5y ago
Of course feminism has fucked up women. Without feminism, they wouldn't be single at 30.
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
I matched with a girl a couple weeks ago on Bumble. I have it installed on my work phone and matched with her in the morning and had to send my phone to IT for the day so they could install upgrades. So I didn't get it back until the end of the day. I was ready to message her and saw she had gotten mad I wasn't responding and unmatched me. You're right about them being vulnerable to rejection. I have no regrets because a girl who gets that mad about a long response time probably has insecurity issues anyway.
Women really suck at Bumble openers. You think guys have bland ones. It doesn't give me much to work with.
I don't even bother. I go no higher than 26, and even 26 is pushing it - she has to be a knockout for me to swipe right on a 26 year old. Every year a girl ages past 25 its as if she has aged 5 years. The difference between 25 and 27 is huge, the difference between 27 and 29 is huge, and so on. Comparing a 30 year old to a 25 year old isn't even fair.
OceanPoultry 5y ago
Generally, them going first isnt all that helpful. They just message "hey" so you dont dissapear.
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
Pretty much. Sometimes you get the occasional GIF.
[deleted] 5y ago
That’s not been my experience. YMMV.
THROW_DIABETES_AT_U 5y ago
Very interesting to read the part about one's account going dead. I go through this a lot because I sometimes get carried away with my swipes due to tinder gold. After remaking my account it can seem fine for like 2-3 days, but after that it seems like my profile isn't being shown to literally anyone except absolutely bottom of the barrel women who I wouldn't go near even if I was drunk out of my mind. I tend to buy a boost to try and make up for this fact.
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
All new accounts pretty much get a boost when they first start that lasts a few days. After that your stack placement is determined by ELO and how many other new users have joined.
Good ELO or not I always suggest rebooting your account every month or so. Boosts are good but they are short and its all luck based.
THROW_DIABETES_AT_U 5y ago
Yeah I tend to remake my account every 2-4 weeks. Gonna give the lower swiping rule a go next time I remake and see how that turns out. Great post btw dude
Luckyluke23 5y ago
you should come to aus, this will be close to 100%
eDawg85 5y ago
I need to thank you for the first guide. It really changed the Tinder experience for me :)
Im on vacation and may have over-swiped (out of likes..). Really too bad if my ELO is 0, but my matches really dried up.
eDawg85 5y ago
I have around 50 matches though, so it is enough to keep the chatting going :)
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
It's a big one. I knew it existed but I thought Tinder Gold users were immune from it, but we aren't. Had to completely start my entire account over and lost all my matches.
culturedculprits 5y ago
Hey man, so I bought a month of Gold and my ELO is complete garbage rn (the number of ppl who liked me hasn't changed in a while so I'm assuming I'm not being shown to ppl, but I still get matches with girls I superlike). Is it a good idea to just wait out the month and take advantage of my superlikes til the month runs out?
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
Superlikes are really your only shot until you can renew your account
zarathustrahhh 5y ago
I have a weird relationship with Tinder. I'll spend a couple weeks swiping on it and wasting shitloads of time, meet a couple of shitty women, and give up on the whole idea. Then out of the blue I'll get a text from a previous match, meet her, be surprised that she's better than her photos, fuck her, and want to get back on Tinder. It's like it's rigged to keep me hooked somehow.
I'm mid 30's so the diminishing returns are real, I should just stay on it and not invest so much. These are good tips. Thanks OP
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
I consider Tinder to be a lot like passive income one would get from an investment. You just kind of let it sit there once its established and you reap a steady stream of benefits over the long run.
It's why the people here who hate on it are likely low SMV incels. You literally have nothing to lose by having a profile.
laviksa 5y ago
So everyone that hates on it, is a low smv incel.. really? Take some steps back and really see what you are doing: using the internet to haggle after attention from women that are faceglued to their phones. The 90's nerd dreams have truly come true. But anyway, a valid way to enjoy the decline I guess.
Some disadvantages (these don't apply to everyone, I know):
WholesomeAwesome 5y ago
> Sending messages may seem like low effort to you, but it's a mental drain compared to real life interaction
0.0
CalvinRichland 5y ago
I never wrote a guide but this is correct. In my research NEVER use a selfie ever.
I rotated crops of photos to study the responses. The ones taken by others and appeared the least planned got the best responses. The least planned doing fun stuff especially stuff that they could not figure out was the gold. Also finding ways to sneak in attributes like oh that isnt a shirtless picture, someone just snapped a photo of him doing a silly jump im the lake.
Theguygotgame777 5y ago
A good idea for taking a candid exciting picture, if you're doing something like skiing or biking, would be filming yourself doing it on a quality camera, and then taking a snapshot from the video when you look your most natural.
WholesomeAwesome 5y ago
Am I already scrued if I swiped 100 times the first time or two? I wasn't aware of any of this.
Tenth_10 5y ago
Thanks for the guides !
As for me I'm 40 and I live in a town of 50k people. I think I'm fucked then. :/
wanker7171 5y ago
I actually completely disagree with this. I agree with a lot of PUAs that you shouldn’t set a beta tone of chasing the girl by asking for her number (or telling her you want it). Instead she’s the one who wants your number and needs to ask you. Your only mission in those first texts is to establish that you are the dominant guy she’s hoping you are. Now you can do that through many different ways but I usually do it either with intrigue (i.e. can you keep a secret?) or humor. Here’s an example of me using the humor approach from last weekend when I was gaming this hb6 milf who swiped me and had “Having fun is the gateway to my heart” on her profile
Me- “You love having fun huh? Well I don’t normally brag but I did just get done filing my tax return.”
Me (about two days later)- “Don’t be shy”
Her- “I’m not shy you’re way too young for me”
Me- “I actually have the mind of a 40 yr old and I’m trapped inside a young adult body.”
Her- “Yea ok”
Me- “You’re right I’m probably too much for you to handle.”
Her- “Cute”
Me- “And good looking, with amazing eyes, and I could go on forever. I get it though you’re looking for those single dad types who’ll chase you at bars.”
Her- “You think you’re so funny”
Me- “Oh I’m terrible at being funny, I don’t even know how jokes work. I’m about as good at joking as you are with flirting with me.”
Her- “OK good one lol”
Me- “That’s what I’ve been saying, all my time is a good time. So if you want my number all you gotta do is ask”
Her- “Cute”
Me- “Since you desperately need me to sit you down and teach you how to flirt with a man”
Her- “Lol yea OK. Send your number then.”
This has given me the best results which is why I absolutely think it’s the better approach
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
All of that for a fucking single mom 6? Good lord dude. I wouldn't invest one minute iota of attention in a single mom 6.
acemz 5y ago
Ok first of all I am a male model and I happen to be black. Tinder really does not work for me that well even though I have good pics and bio. If your black disregard tinder and use day game instead.
615bachelor 5y ago
you are right lol. I am black and the quality i get on there is pathetic. Nothing but fat 180+ white women who believes in the stereotypes of black men wanting white land-whales. No thank you lol every once in a while i will get lucky and get a hb8. But thats like once a week. If you are a minority (Asian,Hispanic,black etc) then tinder might not be worth the time. Day game is way better for me. I can easily make a girl laugh and slowly reel her in my boat in real life. but on tinder every girl has 200+ matches. So its hard to stand out.
Another thing to note, i work out like 5 days a week and look like a tatted MMA fighter. i would never post a pic of myself on here because i have a job lol (google Kevin Lee MMA, i look like him but with tattoos.) And these girls think they have a chance with me. Why would any nigga who works out and keeps a strict diet even glance at a landwhale? lol . So if i guy is average looking then tinder is useless for him. He will only get 300 pound women to swipe right or maybe a girl looking for beta bucks. So for my situation day game works best but i have banged a few 8s . I have tinder plus so i can see who swipes on me . But i would rather approach a women in real life.
Andgelyo 5y ago
IMO tinder should be used as a LAST RESORT to getting laid. I have something like 350+ matches, which i guess is decent, but most of them are land whales, with a few HB7s. I actually got a HB8 20 year old latina's number and we hit it off so there's some hope. If you are in a severe dry spell, then tinder is the go to for easy, cheap sloots. Other than that. continue to game somewhere else.
Stats: 5'9 filipino american, above average looking i guess, with exciting pictures on my profile. Matches are literally every race, but mostly land whales and few HB7s.
[deleted] 5y ago
I thought I was crazy for the longest time cause all I would get were landwhales and I'm a 6'1 210 pound athlete somewhere around a 8.3. So I got frustrated that all I got were ghetto chicks and tranny's. I'm also a photographer and thus have high quality photos. Glad to hear I wasn't imagining things lol
[deleted] 5y ago
Re your age. Change it on Facebook and it'll reflect that on Tinder.
uebermacht 5y ago
Fixed linking to the original guide: https://archive.fo/d4jhx
OceanPoultry 5y ago
Fuck. When Im bored at work i swipe right on everbody as fast as i can without even looking down since you never run out of swipes. Fuck. Im not gonna change my fucking phone number tho.
Victor-James 5y ago
Good post. Escalating sooner rather than later should be required reading for everyone who uses online dating. I preach the exact same thing with all my friends who ask me for advice.
jonpe87 5y ago
I'm 30.. I just do a profile with 25yo, and say in my profile that I 'm 30, put to find age in 18-25 or 18-23. It works. Just don't use facebook.
Also don't keep an account more than 1 month, get numbers, delete it and make a new one or you stop to appear for others, did this yesterday and a lot of local girls is showing again and the matchs are happening again... you can overswipe with this method but, do this:
put distance on max and like swipe one pretty girl right and the next 10 left, be sure they are not close to you and are not worth the effort... you will enter in the HB 8/10 of tinder universe, so let the distance like this for some hours, swipe one pretty girl right the next ones left, open the profiles and see the distance to not swipe left girls that are close to you, you will get some matchs if you do this with a new account, so, after some hours set the distance to 10km, and open the profiles, the ones that show above 10km distance are the ones that already swaped you right, and now the pretty local girls will show for you, make sure that you will talk with your matchs. The strategy is to fool the algorithm swiping pretty girls left.
mvnarachi 5y ago
The max distance thing works. Seen it with my own eyes.
ShotgunTRP 5y ago
Can you please rephrase this more cleanly for dummies. I don’t quite get your strat/algo
tmv4 5y ago
Could you explain the distance setting swiping/not swiping a little more clearly? Be sure who are not close, the ones I swipe or not swipe? A little confused. Thanks
jonpe87 5y ago
You don't want to swipe the hot girls that are close to you left. But if you swipe all the hot ones right the algorithm will put you low in the pile of profiles, showing you for the ugly ones. So, by setting the distance on max you can swipe the hot girls that are too faraway to left, this way you fool the algorithm to show you the really hot girls. It's like showing to the app that you have standarts hehe.
D_gill98 5y ago
Would this work on an account that’s been up for 5 days?
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mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
I guess the age spoofing can work, but I don't know, it might work if you are just looking for one night stands, but if you are looking for plates or FWB or higher it will send off a red flag. I've never tried it though, I might try it with my next profile.
Completely agree on the monthly profile resets, should probably put that in my guide, the downside is losing your matches, but just be sure to get numbers before resetting.
You're also right about your 3rd paragraph, I do the same thing via Tinder Gold by passporting to other locations instead of using max distance, but the principle is the same.
jonpe87 5y ago
You are thinking as a man, women love red flags hehe. But I must say that I have a good guy profile, I say that I'm not looking for casual sex, but good friends to see what happens, also I say that distance don't matters if you are a interesting girl, to be fair after this frase my matchs did go up, I think there is a lot of matchs that don't talk or that just play with tinder and do nothing.
Edit: You can use a Fake GPS App too to do what you do with tinder gold and change your position. Good if you will travel to some place and want a plate ready ;)
Yorkkk 5y ago
I've heard that if you consistently (or in this case monthly) delete your accounts and then immediately re-make, it can tank your ELO too. Is this true?
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
If they figure out its you, yeah.
Just use a burner facebook account or a different phone number(you can use landlines). Monthly account resets may be overkill.
The only issue with burner Facebook accounts is that you have to be careful. Don't use the same name as another account. Make it unique and try to not get it flagged for spam.
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mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
I try to. At work we have dozens of phones which means an unlimited amount of phone numbers.
fidelio90 5y ago
Is there are difference signing up with just your mobile number? What are the pros and cons? Or are you better off with the traditional Facebook and number?
What is the desktop version of tinder all about? With Gold do you just keep your auto swipe on overnight and also use the desktop version in accordance, or will that cause you to over swipe?
Yorkkk 5y ago
Stupid question here as I haven't re-made in awhile, but after deleting my account I don't have to use Facebook at all to make a new login, just a phone number? I'm considering using a Google Voice #. Would it be wise to still wait out the 30 days for Bumble if using a new number?
BTW thanks for the posts dude. I usually do pretty well on both but occasionally my ELO tanks (probably because of over-swiping) and I'm always at a loss of what to do. You helped a bunch
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
ALWAYS wait 30 days before resetting Bumble, even if using a new number or Facebook. Preferably 35. They have a way of figuring you out, I don't know how they do it but they just do.
Always use a new number if you can. If you can't, just wait it out and hope for the best. Bumble and Tinder both understand that people might delete their accounts and come back one day and don't want to sandbag them when they do come back.
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finclover9 5y ago
Amazing guide, and props for actually compiling data on your Gold queue. It's somewhat reassuring to see that I'm not the only who has a lot of low quality girls swiping me. What do you think about shirtless pictures on Bumble? Not the selfie kind but one that's tasteful and professional looking. It would stand out in a sea of headshot and pictures in suit. I'd love to hear you guys take on that.
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
I don't do shirtless pics on Bumble. Girls on there are a bit more "classy" I guess. Even if its a tasteful picture.
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[deleted] 5y ago
I think that's the case too.
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
It's bad. I used to do PM consultations(I don't anymore, so please don't PM me guys) and every time some guy would wail about his oneitis I'd tell them to send me a pic of her so I could tear her down and explain how she isn't special. They'd always hype her up as some HB8 or HB9 and Every. Single. Time. She was a 6 or less. Most of the time they were a 5 or less. My favorite was some guy hyping up this HB9 who, when I got the picture, was not only overweight, but had rainbow colored dyed hair, tattoos, piercings, looked like an SJW feminist bingo winner.
My rule of thumb when reading TRP is to always subtract 2 from HB ratings you see, should probably be closer to 3.
[deleted] 5y ago
Makes field reports so unrealistic. I wonder how many HB8 that they fucked are really overweight, drunk fat chicks, that were desperate enough to suck their dick.
Etchasjsksksk 5y ago
Yeah lately I've been getting matched with girls that seem to just want to talk idk it's annoying. But fuck it I'll keep on trying
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FeralRed 5y ago
"Stop wasting your time. If a girl is interested she is interested, if not she is not."
This stood out to me the most.
Great work, u/mallardcove. Parts one and two.
midgetpooooo 5y ago
The overswiping mechanic is such bullshit. I only use bumble/tinder casually and have always gotten plenty of matches and dates, but since they implemented this a few weeks ago (in my experience) I've gotten zero new matches on both apps. It's ridiculous. So I swipe right on a lot of girls when I set distance to less than a mile. So what? It's dumb to drop my ELO for that. They want us to use the app like a woman swiping only on the most top tier guys/their types. But that doesn't reflect reality and guys will swipe on anyone who is a HB7 or higher because why not?
Dartleather 5y ago
Great write up. I recently got out of a 6 year relationship and am on semester break living out in the country. I have been relying on Tinder until I go back to uni and your 1st write up has been a massive help in getting me past my relationship oneitis, even though that fucker pops up whenever there's a super hot girl who I go on a date with.
I would also add that if you have tinder gold, don't hide your location/distance either. I live out in the country so thought this would be advantageous but my numbers dropped drastically. Girls will just use this lack of information to disqualify you and swipe you left.
Edit: I would also like to add that people shouldnt have the highest expectations of online dating apps as tinder/bumble is hypergamy on steroids. I am averaging 2 dates a week but these women are mostly in the 6-7 range with the odd 8-9, whereas I'm used to sitting in the 7-9 range.
If only my tinder game could translate to my in person game
fabelisback 5y ago
Even with 5 matches a day there is like one q month HB7 that's cool and I really want to date. The thing is tho people are good judging characters from pics and instant messaging.
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
My best Tinder experiences have been with 7s and 8s. The problem I have with the 7s is that they always get really insecure because they know my SMV is higher than theirs. They try a lot harder(like a beta orbiter tries to win over his oneitis's affection) and if I don't reciprocate they freak out.
MilkMoney111 5y ago
“Your photos have to make her feel”
My buddy took his wife to some modeling recruitment thing a few years ago and I tagged along. Jokingly as people were signing in I said fuck it and signed up and got in line with everyone.
I was cracking jokes left and right because I wasn’t taking anything serious and noticed one of the agents staring at me smirking. Here I am surrounded by good looking people and I have the attention of some talent agent because I’m making people “feel.”
Long story short I meet with the modeling agents and they want me to meet with them after they turn down other people. Basically they said we picked you because you have personality, and you can convey that in your body. Modeling isn’t about being attractive, it’s about selling and making the consumer feel something. Feel compelled to buy your product. And he said most people fuck up by thinking just looking good is enough and showed us examples of pics they get. Pretty people but fuck it was boring face shots on blank backgrounds.
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
I model sporadically and you are absolutely right.
Lenoh 5y ago
* I know when I turned 30, its as if my Tinder success rate was cut in half
That's why Tinder is about to have a class action lawsuit against it.
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mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
Oh My God... no one has EVER posted this comment before! You have opened my eyes!
viperpex 5y ago
Oh My God...you actually wasted your time typing this stupid guide
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mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
Thank you for your concern.
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mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
I disagree. Your post reads like drivel I'd find over on MGTOW.
Is Tinder a buyers market for women? Yes. But as I pointed out in my initial guide, go make a burner account and check out the male competition. It doesn't really take much to get into that Top 10%.
I'd say you have to be closer to the Top 5% to get consistent results with the higher SMV women on there, but you can get there too. Get to the Top 10% first, and then learn what exactly it will take to move up.