While I was learning the ropes of picking up women, pre-redpill, I would often read and hear stories like what is posted on this sub in awe, wondering how it’s even possible that some of these events come to be. Stories from the likes of Tucker Max seemed unachievable to me. I never really understood what I was doing wrong. I was working out, in a desirable field, in the prime of my undergrad at an ideal state school (read opportunities around every corner) yet not pulling the types of girls and life experiences that could have been. I was smart enough to recognize that it had to be my conversation game that was holding me back.
This was a good breakthrough in my development. I had overcome the anxiety that comes with opening and maintaining a conversation but never seemed to get beyond that. Eventually a few conversations with a buddy of mine about his escapades led me to understand that there’s a bigger picture to these conversations that can result in you being a total beta in her eyes, or the guy she blows in the bathroom within 10 minutes of meeting. This is the idea of conversation steering.
As the man in this game we have the advantage of being the leader if you choose to bear that responsibility. Women want to follow you in conversation, they want you to manufacture interesting topics, ask them questions that make them think in new ways, and show them new perspectives. Some feminist types might label this as mansplaining, which is why they are opposed to it. It puts them in a traditional role of listening and thinking in a way you dictate, as opposed to the feminist rhetoric of being entirely independent mentally and physically. It’s a very subtle way of communicating leadership to her without action, boasting, or peacocking. By taking the talking points, and structuring them around your interests, allowing her to talk around your narrative you are keeping her in your frame indirectly.
In the example of a first interaction, the hardest part is getting her to that initial point. Asking a handful of open ended questions until she hits on a subject you are more familiar with is a good way to start, and has the added effect of allowing you to learn about her more and letting her talk about herself which lets her feel more comfortable. When you can latch on that common point and pull her in you have to be on your toes during the conversation and keep moving. So many guys are just content to be talking and have one or two common interests they allow the talk to flatline, never escalating or taking a strange turn, and this is where I found myself failing time and time again. You need to do something different or ask her a difficult question that’s interesting but not too aggressive for the situation. I enjoy driving the conversation into weird and strange on a few occasions to keep it light, but also because that’s my personality where i thrive.
You’ll often see girls body language change drastically once you get them in your lane that is a bulletproof indicator. In my situation, this approach works well in a conversation over drinks. If you pace yourself, and are at a good place for some time, alcohol can make both of you more relaxed and confident in what’s going on. Once the conversation is flowing around your narrative you can begin to push the envelope on subjects that are inherently sexual or risque. This is putting the idea of sex in her head, with you at the root of the idea. Joey Diaz does this well, in watching this podcast of his, he comes to a point in the story that he has to summarize with, “and we’re talking and she brings up how she hasn’t blown a guy in so long…”. You think that conversation landed there because of a roulette wheel spin? He leaves out the details of how it got there, because it’s typically a longer drawn out process that isn’t at it’s core interesting, but results in the rest of the story that are worth him telling on the podcast.
There’s a lot of ways to steer conversation, and as all other things, is dependent on who’s involved, where, and why, but the fundamentals are there, and require practice in countless situations to become proficient in. We will be putting up a podcast on this subject tomorrow on the trp.red site, and our YouTube channel tomorrow.
Ke9817 6y ago
I'd like to weigh in on this as I feel I've become pretty adept at steering/ opening conversations. Here is an example of mine from last night. Hopefully someone finds this helpful.
-Sitting in the back patio of a bar two girls are out drinking and talking- My friend and I sit nearby and shortly after they come over and ask for a light. After my friend hands her one I tell her, "feel free to sit if you like. My friend and I were just discussing dead baby jokes and how they were all the rage back when I was in elementary school. Do you know any good dead baby jokes." She did and I actually found her dead baby jokes pretty funny. She shared a few, and mentioned that at one point she had memorized 50 dead baby jokes. I think one was, "how many dead babies does it take to shingle a roof?" Waits a beat-- "depends on how thin you slice them." It landed and she got some laughs. I continue while laughing, "that's pretty good. Damn, that reminds me of a time I had in a class when the teacher and students were all telling dead baby jokes. It was honestly my first time ever hearing dead baby jokes and I was somewhat taken back and confused by them. I mean I really had never heard one before and it seems like the entire class was in on it. Finally I raised my hand and mockingly asked in front of the class, 'how many dead baby jokes would it take for Mr. Reed to appear cool? Doesn't matter. He's going to suck forever. The class laughed and the teacher gave me detention." This actually happened to me, and the quick story got a laugh from the ladies. The conversation remained light hearted and we swapped funny stories about being in high school (im now 27. She was 24). Since we were talking about detention from my previous story, I asked her if she had ever been in detention? And while she was thinking it over I said jokingly "ohh come on I bet you were a wild child. Sluttin it up with dudes under the bleachers. Partying like crazy. Just 100 percent off the leash!" At this point of the conversation it had only been a good 7-10 minutes of talking. Some may say accusing a women of being a slut in high school is probably not the best pick up technique. But I felt confident enough that the conversation had been lighthearted enough that when I gave her shit for sluttin it up in high school, I said it in a way that was obviously playful and it didn't come across as offensive. I was trying to flirt with her. I probably followed that comment up with something like, "nah I'm joking... alright what do you got for a good detention story? Lay it on me." She says something to the effect of "I was actually quite nerdy in high school, but now you are right, I am completely sluttin it up now!" She was obviously joking and I laughed. She continues, "no I never got any detention for anything sexual, I did get in trouble for throwing a clay pot out of a bus window though!" I was a conversational crossroads right here. I wanted her talking about sex, or sexual stuff, and yet I also had a good conversational building block with the clay pot out of the bus window. I said, "holy shit, I totally did that too! ( I hadn't) Well it wasn't a clay pot it was a glass vas. I got in trouble for that and I also got in trouble for fooling around with girls on the bus too." She said, "you would fool around with girls on the bus? Like what grade were you?" "Oh probably like sixth grade, middle school age. You weren't fooling around the bus with dudes at that age?? Damn you were missing out," I say with a smile. I follow up, "no it was actually quite pathetic in retrospect. My middle school girlfriend and I would just sink down into the bus seat and very sloppily French kiss out of the vision of the bus driver. But really it was just licking each other's tongues. Basically." She laughs as I semi-act out the middle school make out session. " I am much better at kissing now, " I say.
While all this is going on my friend is talking to the other brunette girl. I turn to her and say "excuse me, just want you to know your roommate here is a raging, school Shooter level, psycho." The friend says "whyyyy???" I say, "cuz she has memorized like 50 gruesome dead baby jokes and just has them holstered ready to creep out strangers all the time!" Friend says, "well you guys were taking about dead baby jokes when we approached for a lighter." I said, "yeah, we were discussing in part how raging psychos like your friend here love their dead baby jokes." Again, saying all this with a smile and being light hearted. I then turned back to her and my friend resumes talking to the brunette. "I am just kidding about you being raging psycho.... I am sure you are a well adjusted, well mannered psycho." I smile. She says something like, "yeah so you better watch out!" "Oh whatever you are a weak, im not worried about you." We flirt a bit more. Finally I tell her, "hey let's go get these two and us some drinks." We get up to go and as we exit the back patio into the hallway I stop and say, "I wanna see if I'm better at this than in middle school." I bring her in and we sensually share some making out in the hall. We continue walking to the bar and when we get there I said, "hey let's be cool friends and get our friends some drinks on us. But let's get them something exotic and weird that they probably won't like! " I order my friend some kind of strawberry jalapeño margarita thing, and she follows and does the same. We had fun flirting and touching while we watched them make the drinks and we were joking about not telling them about the jalepeno in them. Basically, it was something fun, and it kind of felt like a prank on our friends that we were in on together. I paid for mine. She paid for hers. I was somewhat curious if she thought she was getting drinks out of me. But she didn't try and already had a tab open. Neither of our friends liked the jalepeno and we laughed and made them drink it anyways. Shortly after we swapped numbers and plan to see each other tomorrow. I really think if it wasn't for my conversational game being fun and playful I'd never get anywhere with women. I am not ugly by any means but I can't pull women like my friend can by simply walking into a room and being that good looking. I have to demonstrate some kind of charm, while my friend is a tall good looking dude that just has to stand there and look cute. Fucker, anyway. For you guys out there that are good looking ish but can't close on looks alone, developing personality, humor, wit, is very important
Anyway- excuse me if this is sloppy writing. I am doing it on my phone. I've been lurking on TRP for sometime. TRP has been great for motivating me in lifting, eating well, etc. I always felt like I had good conversation game but developing the other aspects of TRP has given me even more confidence which has been making the conversations more interesting/ entertaining. A few asides, don't forget that a good smile goes a long way. My brother pulls hot women all the time and I asked him what he did. He said he just smiles a lot. As someone with cynical resting bitch face, I have noticed a huge difference in making a genuine effort to smile and flash those teeth more. Fuck it, I have nice teeth. Need to use them to my advantage. Another point- while in conversation, don't be afraid to cover some seemingly out there ideas or topics. If you do it right you can be funny and fun and talk about some weird out of the norm shit that she will remember you by. I mean, I don't think the dead baby conversation I was having with that woman reads as funny, but It got me laughs in person and my foot in the door. *One bit of caution- I have learned that I can get in somewhat vicious moods and basically aim to offend people with offensive jokes and premises. Don't do that. That was basically me towards the beginning of my red pill knowledge where in the red pill information/ truths just made me fucking angry. So when I found myself in sets, usually at bars, I went through a phase of sliding in "cunt" and "whore" a little too much while telling jokes or telling stories. Final point, OP mentioned Joey Diaz who is a comedian. I think it would be wise for TRP's who want to improve in the conversation game to watch some comedy and see some expert story telling. I find it incredibly helpful.
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icarusrex 6y ago
One thing that works is not just asking questions but making comments early on. Where are you from? Her: "Russia" me: "cool, when I think of Russia I imagine everyone drinking vodka and riding around on bears, I bet it's not like that though". Making comments and allowing her to respond rather than trying to interview a girl can go along way.
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Laterally_Cant_Even 6y ago
This is worth fleshing out more. Can you do a post on how you steer the conversation in a sexual direction, and pitfalls/shit-tests that you've faced? I'm guessing there's a big difference between night game and day game here.
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Laterally_Cant_Even 6y ago
I can talk about starting multiple topics. This is something Mystery also talked about in the original M3 model, saying that he throws out multiple topics, and is quick to cut off a particular topic if the girls aren't biting. He'll move quickly from topic to topic, and that's something that has to be practiced, since most logical-minded people have a hard time letting go of a conversational thread mid-thought, which is what you sometimes have to do.
In general, one sentence from her can and should spark multiple topic ideas in your mind, and you can ping her with those one by one, even if she hangs on to the first one, it's good to give her a variety of emotions by talking about multiple topics that raise different feelings in her. For example if she talks about a cat in her childhood you can talk about cats, you can talk about childhood experiences, you can talk about your own pet, or even pivot the conversation in a completely different direction and come back to the childhood discussion later when she's more invested in you. But in general you have to be willing to switch topics on a dime. I do need to be in a social state of mind to do this, bc since I work with numbers all day, my mind tends to want to go in one direction lol.
I have a harder time steering the conversation in a sexual direction though.
FieldLine 6y ago
Great stuff.
This is the best line in your whole post. You ever notice that girls tend to have the same interests as their boyfriends? They like the same music, the same movies - but that's not what brought them together. Women will mold themselves to fill the container you provide.
In fact, one could go as far as to say most women don't even have their own opinions. I find with single girls that their interests tend to line up with those of their father, provided he was in her life, or an ex-boyfriend.
BachelorPrime 6y ago
Podcast up now! Feedback appreciated. https://www.trp.red/podcast/113