I (29) have been flirting and teasing this hot girl (21) who is a friend of a friend for a month or so but never considered asking her out as I thought maybe she was a bit young for me. Anyway I said fuck it and took her for some drinks at a bar I frequent (lots of social proof there for me and helps with preselection in the future). When I asked her out she told me that she wasn't looking to date anyone just now but would like to go for drinks with me anyway. This seemed perfect and I took it she was down to fuck as it was clear my teasing and flirting the past few weeks had spiked her interest in me.
We agreed 7pm at a trendy bar for a cocktail before heading to my second location. At 6pm she moved it to 8pm (I said fine but you're buying the first round of drinks), and at 7:10pm she moved it forward to 7:30pm (yeah, right). I told her 8pm is fine.
Everything on our actual date was going brilliantly. I lead the whole process and kept the chemistry going. It wasn't difficult to be honest, all very natural. I touched her plenty of times and we ended up side by side talking to each other with our bodies close. I had my hand on her knee and thigh. She liked my touch.
We talked a lot about her family, friends, her passions and desires, her dreams. I enjoyed getting to know her. We laughed a lot and I didn't give too much of myself away when she asked me questions. I kept the mystery alive. I teased a lot and built lots of rapport. She clearly enjoyed me seducing her. She told me she wasn't expecting me to be so interesting as all we had done up to that point was flirting and teasing. Said she's never opened up about herself like this before.
It came to around 10:20pm and I told her I needed to be up early for work the next morning so was heading home to chill out for a little while and she is invited to come back with me for a glass of wine. She said she had arranged to meet her best female friend and her new flatmate. I'm like cool, where does she live? Ah - just round the corner from me - how convenient!
So we walk 10 mins to my block in which she tried to walk ahead of me at a fast pace. It was very cold that night so I figured she was cold and thought I should have just got into a damn taxi. Too late now though.
It became clear that she was avoiding me taking her to mine. I thought maybe now's a good time to be a man and to stop her walking ahead, and go to kiss her for the first time. She rejected me - told me I startled her. Maybe I was too aggressive. Shit. Or maybe it was a poor choice of timing and my body language was not good as I had a rush of nervousness. Or she genuinely didn't want me being near her. Who knows? Anyway I laugh it off and she is still walking in front of me. I tell her she's going to lead us into a dead end or something and she should follow me as I know this area (she's not from my part of town). She was being stubborn as hell. Said she knew where she was going and it's this way (going towards a dark alley that no girl in their right mind would ever go down). I laugh at her and tell her she must be joking, trying to remain centred. I knew the street was totally safe, although dodgy looking. Anyway we get to the street where her friend lives but she can't remember which apartment it is. She gets her phone out and says it's number 84, which we already walked passed. I told her to stop in a dominant voice and she turned to me. I walked up to her and kissed her. It lasted around 10 seconds I think. She reciprocated. It was nice. I told her we walked passed her friend's house already, but I think she would be happier coming to mine instead (just round the corner). She said no she was going to her friend's.
So I thought fuck it, I am only offering twice. So I walked her to her friend's house. She kisses me goodnight on the lips as she walks into her friend's apartment with her friend waiting at the door.
I texted her 24 hours later saying I had a nice time, I hope she enjoyed the rest of her night and she should let me know if she wants to hang out again sometime. No response for 24 hours and waiting (not holding my breath on her response to be honest). I will not be contacting her again unless she gets in touch with me first. I am working on another plate anyway, though abundance is nowhere near being the case for me just yet.
Now, this is the first time since my ex that I have had a date go so well, and the first time since her that I've kissed another person. It's also the first date in which I've tried to live by trp principles. However, killing the old beta version of me is not a one-night success. Beta actions were numerous throughout the night. I made many mistakes from start to finish. I lacked killer confidence in crucial moments of the night. I guess I have an idealised version of how that date should have gone based on trp, and I guess the reality is I made many beta mistakes due to a lack of skill, experience and therefore confidence in my abilities. I was doing most of this stuff consciously for the first time. It doesn't seem instinctive to me yet, especially when major shit tests happen (such as the walk back from the bar).
One thing I have is courage in some sense. I went for the kiss. I got rejected, and I still went for it again and succeeded. Overall, the goal was to get my dick wet, which I failed at, but I gained a valuable experience and had an overall enjoyable date with a sexy young girl which I haven't had for a while.
I didn't do everything by the book, and I didn't execute trp strategy perfectly. I consider myself a novice. There are many things that reading redpill literature and forums cannot prepare you for - real life experience. I was charming, dominant, a leader, funny and sexual all night long. She entered my frame and it stayed that way all night, until the end of the night. Maybe my lack of skill and experience screwed my chances of getting laid. I'm not as alpha as James Bond - I know. I knew at the time what alpha move I could or should be doing, but I didn't do them. I let her walk ahead of me. I wasn't confident enough to demand to her that she slow down and walk behind me - I don't own her, and it's a first date for fuck's sake - how do I handle this? I tried to treat her like a spoilt brat and let her have her way by joking and letting her know I am the one that knows best. I talked to her like I would talk to a child that thinks it knows best. I guess this is a purple-pill way of doing things. Better than submitting to her but still following her and allowing her to lead. This seemed like a massive shit test to me. I am not sure how I performed at this one in all honesty.
Maybe she just didn't want to fuck me because it makes her seem like a slut and she didn't want to seem that way to me. Or maybe her ex boyfriend is back in the picture and she is confused. Maybe she actually got spooked because things were getting too real for her. Perhaps she didn't expect me to be such a catch and that scared her a little bit (she's 21 after all). Or maybe I wasn't red pill enough for her. Maybe the date didn't go as well as I thought it did and I'm not actually that much of a catch to her...
I guess my overall point of this post, and the takeaway from this date is:
- It's an amazing feeling being a man with balls.
- It sucks when our masculinity is tested and we fail - but the experience strengthens us if we have awareness.
- It is by acting like novices in the beginning that mastery can be achieved through practice. Making mistakes is part and parcel of transformation.
- Women have their own insecurities and lack of self-confidence too. Don't pedestalise them. They're not perfect and probably aren't expecting you to be a perfect James Bond either. This probably has a variability depending on age, hotness etc.
- You win some, you lose some, but as long as you work hard and accept the truth, you are winning.
And a final thought:
There are numerous ways a date could have 'failed'. Learning from mistakes is great, but dwelling upon them too much is a beta thing to do. Spinning plates and an abundance mentality would probably help get over this.
I hope this helps people starting out with red pill like me. My advice is you need to get out there and experience dating first hand, so you can apply what you have learned. You'll quickly see that nothing beats first hand experience, and that your bluepill self will rear its ugly head from time to time - hindering your chances of getting laid at first.
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RiskyRewarder 5y ago
She "should let you know if she wants to hang out sometime"? No! Tell her the plans. Don't leave the next meeting in her hands.
Fullmetalshawty 5y ago
no means no bro, the alpha ask was the right move but trying to pry open the young twat so quickly after is a misstep. Set-up date 2 (if there is one) at your place.. don't overcomplicate this shit.. you're the prize my g
sharks_eat_potatoes 5y ago
I think maybe you've got a good point. I reckon I came on too strong for sex and should have been patient with the second date in mind (which is what I actually wanted as well as sex).
SICFJC 5y ago
You beta'd hard when you said.. let me know if you wanna hang out again
That's approval seeking. You're the man, you let her know.
Swix23 5y ago
You’re going to get fucking arrested you god damn psychopath hahahahahahaha
sharks_eat_potatoes 5y ago
You think so?
I thought this was displaying non-neediness. I don't need her. I'm not chasing her. I've left it up to her to get back in touch with me, whilst also simply saying I had a nice night as a courtesy. I've plated her and have set up a date with someone else. If she wants to fuck in the future and contacts me then I will be the one to decide if I want her or not.
If there's a glaring problem with my logic then please correct me
Bilskee1 5y ago
I get your point and used to think the same. However the girl should send that text first not you. How is it masculine/attractive to let the girl decide if you go out again ? Courtesy, for what ? You owe her nothing.
sharks_eat_potatoes 5y ago
Yeah I can see your rationale. I'm beginning to think I probably should not have text her at all
strongfarts 5y ago
Sounds good dude, decent job specially coming back to it after a relationship, takes some balls to make the move for the kiss. I should know I am about your age.
My only feedback other than the hand link the guys suggested, is the thing you told her “write me when you want to hang out again” it frames it a bit as you are now waiting for her, where it should be her who is waiting for a chance to hangout with you, remember you are the price my dude
I did that mistake in the past also, now I usually say something like “this was fun, will definitely hit you up again” or the like with almost exaggerated eagerness and a bit aloofness
Then I really take my sweet time to hit them up again. (Let the hamster spin)” he said he will write why hasn’t he...blah blah” Sometimes they hit me up themselves if my game was solid.
I admit it’s a bit of silly mind game it’s not critical, but I stick to it always.
Best of luck dude and congrats again for using your balls, not many do
sharks_eat_potatoes 5y ago
I am beginning to think that I shouldn't have messaged her at all! That seems counter-intuitive to me but then again most of RP did at first. Lesson learned I guess. Thanks!
reversec 5y ago
As the song says: Thank you, next.
Wabbajak 5y ago
All in all, you did really well. Her rejecting you when you tried to kiss her first was just a shit test and you handled it well. You framed her into thinking you were non-needy and didn't give a fuck about the rejection, therefore you passed the test and landed that second attempt in kissing her.
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herrazki 5y ago
Actually man you did good !! By reading the in formations you give me, there is one thing I can tell because I had a few dates like that and they all ended in the girl flaking on me. She kept sending mixed signals which means you're not her option ‘’A’’ you may be ‘’B’’ or ‘C’’, and that's why she wants to keep you guessing ! 99% she was waiting for her option ‘’A’’ to text her and when you did text her she was 'omg That not what I want right now'' and she got cold on you, that's the truth, at least from the informations I was given, and again you did nothing wrong, you were good like very good, she is just doesn't consider you as ''A'' option a for her right now, if it was the case she wouldn't act aloof and send mixed signals, girls that are into you doesn’t send mixed signals, if she wants to you, she won't make it hard ! I had the like the same exact date 4 month ago, everything was going to smooth, when I went for the kiss, I got rejected, So I did like any red piller would do just act like nothing happen because I always assume attraction, I did good like you, I found it later that she was gaming her option ''A'' and I was ''B", I decided to flip on her and ghosted her totally. 2 months later she got dumped by ‘’A’’ and suddenly I was now ''A'', she tried to reach out for me, but it was too late, I didn't responded to her texts till this day and I won't, I am not angry or looking for revenge, it’s not worth it lol, girls can spin plates too, that's just part of the game. my advice ghost her and next her, find a girl that would consider you as ''A'' you will not be disappointed on how smooth the date will be considering your skills . sorry for english, I am not a native speaker, I Try my best
sharks_eat_potatoes 5y ago
Thank you, I understand you perfectly well. What you write makes sense and I think you are right.
Our mutual friend just told me she broke up with her boyfriend of 6 years 3 months ago. Maybe it's more complicated because she isn't over him yet or he is still in the picture. Perhaps there is another "option A" entirely.
fishinatot 5y ago
as far i know girls LOVE making that excuse (hard break-up) when they're perfectly capable of fuckin plenty of other dudes. i don't mean to sound harsh but girl cover up each others' asses so i say just forget about her and develop abundance
sharks_eat_potatoes 5y ago
Nah, you're right. The harsh truth is truth nonetheless
herrazki 5y ago
Yes man if she has been alpha widowed, that's even harder, if she perceive her ex to be better than you, it will be even harder to game her, not impossible but I am just saying that you will need to build your image for her on the long term thar you're better than him, which is not worth it since you're just looking for a ONS Btw I like you Game man, you were on point ! keep the good work coming, and your kino game is amazing !!
sharks_eat_potatoes 5y ago
Good points, well made. And thanks for the encouragement.
mangouste69 5y ago
This is amazing! Keep going the good work!
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Swix23 5y ago
This is the most pathetic thing I’ve read all week
MrCongeniality1 5y ago
Once upon a time I had a date show up half-drunk and kind of obnoxious. I spent the hour amused by how she was making a fool of herself and just shot the shit and teased her while I was there. I didn't make a move on her at all or text her again. A few days later she asked me for another date, said she thought I acted weird but wanted to see me anyway. By date 3 we are sleeping together and she's in full worship mode after a week or two.
NextBad 5y ago
> Don't get too wrapped up in thinking you need first date success
​
I found the chances of success diminish with each date , first date or bail, sure I had some success with the 3rd date, but these days sex on the first date is the norm, it's not about manhood, that is a feminism trope, it's about getting what you want.
​
Do you want to have sex on the first date? connect with those types of people
BendAndSnap- 5y ago
Can you please explain pinning manhood on womens selection?
MrCongeniality1 5y ago
When your success or failure to sleep with a woman affects your self-esteem or sense of masculinity.
sharks_eat_potatoes 5y ago
This is a good point. Although I'm not pinning my manhood on this girl's selection, I am probably over thinking it to try and see where I went 'wrong', which is probably an extension of what you're saying: failure of frame.
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markinsinz7 5y ago
Why didn't you make a move at all or text her again. Lots of guys here advise a move on the 1st date is key especially in this day and age. Where the girl can end up feeling like you're too much of a pussy.
I also suspect for this particular girl you had the relevant high smv or social status
MrCongeniality1 5y ago
I wouldn't agree that you can/should interject seduction into every interaction. At a club, it would be naive to fail to flirt because girls are there to be hit on. Talk to a girl at the grocery store, get a number but you probably shouldn't try to take her home. In the middle, you have drinks and dates, and I would suggest that you need social awareness to understand her expectations and know how the rapport is going and not just go for seduction on autopilot. In fact, as I developed abundance, my natural inclination was to drop seduction altogether and just have fun until she telegraphed enough receptivity and timing was convenient... it was at this stage that my first date stats went to 80% actually.
Sexualizing an interaction before reading receptiveness is a sign of thirst and lack of social skills. Just my 2 cents.
For this girl, I think she evaluated my SMV similarly to hers but frame raised me by 2 levels - as it usually will.
SICFJC 5y ago
Agreed. 4th date led to girl at my place. We were making out and getting physical. She freaked out and left. She was overwhelmed.
We fucked next time.
warlordchad 5y ago
Goddamn, you're more patient than I am.
I stick to Rollo's rule of 3, sometimes less if I can see it's going to be a long process. Look guys, the thing is, if she's into you, she's going to be down. Read Cain's recent post on sluts. I can see the benefit of not pushing for the f-close right away, but at the same time, I've had two girls drop off the map recently after 2 dates each and very heavy making out (fingering in one case) but no f-close.
Here's the thing: very few things build comfort and value at the same time (indeed, they tend to destroy each other), but if you fuck her good, sex does. Best example of that is a pull I did this October at my local bar. Pulled her home, fucked, and the next day she came over and made me dinner. I find that I'm much more likely to plate a girl I fuck than not, which is why it's always good to escalate to whatever extent you can.
In this particular case, it sounds like you did everything just fine, she just didn't want to bang, and if her friend was expecting her, it would bad and slutty for her to flake by being with you. Also after a date, I never text the next day--let her text you, or else wait a full day (date Tuesday, text Thursday night at earliest). You can make whatever excuse if she gets upset--I was busy, blah, blah, blah (never apologize)--but in the meantime her hamster is spinning.
If she likes you, it's spinning because she wants to hear from you, and if she's feeling lukewarm, after awhile she's going to wonder why you're not texting her. Even if she doesn't like you, she's still going to wonder.
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q2p3 5y ago
It's important to remember girls get nervous too. Sometimes they just get lost in their head, panic, and leave. Yet the whole time they're wanting to get fucked.
MrCongeniality1 5y ago
I speculate that having the social grace and lack of thirst to not push the issue, will lead to better perceptions and a plate that will last longer - so, better return on investment.
boy_named_su 5y ago
Next time grab her hand and link arms so she doesnt walk in front of you. Otherwise sounds like you did good
sharks_eat_potatoes 5y ago
Thanks. I will do this with my next girl
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randomTATRP 5y ago
Nice. Although, three things. As an another comment already said, you should've linked arms with her as you left the bar. Three hours of talking are too much I'd say. Maybe should've changed the venue after an hour. And the last, and probably the most important thing IMHO is that you try to invite her to your place. You think she would be happier if she got to your place instead of her friend's. Just tell her "Come with me". I had a similar situation with a girl recently. Similar story as yours, and as we are about to leave, I said she can join me at my place to drink a beer before sleeping. She said no because it's too late. (4AM) Next time we were out, I just told her "I'm thirsty as fuck, come with me." "To your place?" "Yeah." She obliged, I took her by her hand and she slept over until 10AM the next day.
NEVER ASK QUESTIONS. Just talk. If she refuses, who cares.
Congrats on the kiss though, good look with her next time :)
Swix23 5y ago
And then everyone clapped right? Fuck off with your fake ass story
sharks_eat_potatoes 5y ago
I think you've picked up on 3 of my biggest mistakes pretty well here.
My original plan was to change the venue but things seemed to be going really well where we were. I thought maybe changing venue to a busy bar around the busiest month of the year would have made things more difficult for me. Again, this is due to a slight lack of confidence. If I was more confident I would have not minded the new challenge. I was comfortable and in my element where I was.
I should have linked arms or at least attempted to hold her hand upon leaving the bar. After kissing her I should have taken her hand and led her to my apartment without asking. If she threw up resistance then I would have walked her to her friend's flat to make sure she got there safely like I did anyway.
Trphello 5y ago
"Oh darn, this venue is full! Oh well, I have alcohol at my place" :)
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bakamoney 5y ago
So many girls say this I am not sure its not a filler line
kiwifx 5y ago
Stop pre-apologizing throughout all your post dude, you did great. I'd wager better than 90% of guys here who never get this far. Good job, now build on it! And don't be afraid to post when you bomb on a date, that's just as education, if not more.
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sharks_eat_potatoes 5y ago
Thanks. The date went really well but I knew my RP performance wasn't where it needs to be. Which is why I think I didn't get laid. Trying to understand this is part of learning from mistakes.
One of the biggest realisations is that reading about RP and actually implementing it are two different things. For instance, you can read about dealing with shit tests and holding frame all you want, but it only makes sense once you have to deal with it on a hot date. Also, I can't imagine how badly I must've fucked up before I had RP awareness.
SensualSeduction01 5y ago
Idk about you dude, but when a girl acts like that, I lose interest and leave. Even if that interaction leads to sex, it’s gonna be shit sex, and you’re gonna lose respect for yourself.
sharks_eat_potatoes 5y ago
Yeah, probably. Having an abundance mentality certainly must foster this sort of attitude
SensualSeduction01 5y ago
That, and this:
Not all sex is worth having, even if it means not having sex.
Auvergnat 5y ago
I’m seeing textbook pull but no push. You didn’t leave her any room to chase you.
sharks_eat_potatoes 5y ago
Is there an example of a push I could have done? We're not talking about breaking rapport here, right? You mean something like showing signs of disinterest?
Auvergnat 5y ago
Breaking rapport, IOD, push, neg.. are all different flavours of the same concept: hinting at your disinterest in her so as to trigger her curiosity, hint at your superior value demonstrate that NGAF attitude that is so attractive and uncommon in her usual interactions with guys.
You can't run an entire game on this obviously - keep doing what you did - but it's important to pepper some push here and there, calibrating the amount you pepper to the situation, aka particularly at the beginning to arouse her interest, and when she's defiant (shit tests), or unresponsive. Try small comments like "you're too X and I'm too Y, it wouldn't work between us", or "what you did is so cute, I'm adopting you as my little sister", add some takeaways "I need to talk to that guy, I'll be back" or false ones "I can't believe you'd say that, I'm never talking to you ever again" (obviously joking, and then turn your back to her).
The point is to get her to engage you, to come after you. She needs to feel like she's chasing you.
Without that, it becomes clear that you're chasing her, so if she disengages and you keep doing it, you start approaching creepy territory. From your description of your report, it looks like you were close to it (her walking fast and ahead of you is a clear sign she wants to get rid of you).
Note for next time: although you want to "strike while the iron is hot", aka keep pushing for a same-day lay if it looks promising, there is quickly diminishing reason to do it if you feel like "it's not that hot right now". Instead of insisting and risking over-pulling, use that opportunity to try a strong rapport break by cutting the night short on your terms and schedule. There are other advantages of doing that.
sharks_eat_potatoes 5y ago
I certainly did pepper all of this throughout the date. I had an attitude that she was the one to qualify herself to me. For instance she bites her nails. When I first picked up her hand and complimented her soft skin I told her that I prefer women who have well manicured nails (she then proceeds to say that she is trying to stop and likes to get a manicure each month). That's just one example. I did it charmingly, however. I wasn't a dick about it. Maybe I need to work on developing this side of my game.
There were plenty of times that she seemed to do this. But definitely at the end of the date I was the one doing the chasing, which is not so good. I don't think I was in creepy territory, but I was concerned I was quickly approaching Creepsville. Especially when she told me I startled her when I first went for the kiss and was rejected. Although I got the kiss second time round, I still feel the damage had been done by not leading her and allowing myself to chase. I can't understand why I would have creeped her out though. The date went really well I think, and she was receptive to my kino and escalation. It was only when I invited her to mine did she go cold.
I'm beginning to think this would have been the best choice. But then again, how can I really know? Probably I came across as desperate for sex and it turned her off. Or her ASD came up. There could be many reasons. Since I've not done a first date lay before, perhaps I gave out a vibe she picked up on. Ending the night on my terms would have been a strong move, and possibly given me a better shot at a second date (which I strongly doubt I'll ever get now).
Thanks for blog link...that was a good read.
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