Relationships between men and women require sacrifice to some degree or another. Modern society has done a great job of convincing men and women that they are making an equal sacrifice for the relationship, however, when evaluating our biological mating strategies, the landscape of an LTR is anything but equal.
Women look for the highest possible value man to be with. The driving force behind this is wanting to get the highest value genetics from a man to pass to her offspring, to give it the best chance of enduring the next phase of life. Once she get's her pick, she is happy and comfortable, they would mate and she'd fall pregnant. During this vulnerable pregnancy she would need protection, which a high value mate could provide. Once the offspring is conceived, the vulnerable mother and the child both need protecting. The male would fill this role. Over the course of a woman's lifetime she can only do this a couple times until her fertility wares out. The less fertile she is the less desirable she is. This means, her prime physical state is the best time for her to obtain a high value alpha male, and to hang onto him.
Men on the other hand operate differently, we don't have a little critter grow inside of us after mating. We are not limited to just one partner. Men can impregnate multiple women, thousands over the course of his lifetime. A high value man will be desirable to many women, thus the more he impregnates the more chance his genetic material has of passing through the next phase of life. A low value man will have far less options, driving him to hold on to the few options he could get.
We could summarize our paradoxical mating strategies into two distinct categories. Men are biologically driven to spread their seed far and wide, Women are driven to select the highest quality mate possible and hold onto it for reproduction.
With this in mind, when evaluating a monogamous relationship, it's pretty clear to see that the male is making a far bigger sacrifice on his inherent mating strategy to make it possible. He has to defy his biological drivers constantly to maintain his loyalty, whereas, if she has a high value male, she will be quite content. Sure, there's Hypergamy, but that tingle only starts to itch in the presence of higher value men, ours itch for thousands of pussies, all the time. That's why you get the age old scenario where a man cheats on his women and she wonders how on earth could he have cheated on her with someone so much less attractive than her? Well, because it was any other pussy other than yours sweetheart.
High value men are likely to suffer from the Barrier Effect. The Barrier Effect is that feeling you get in a monogamous relationship that only thing standing in your way from banging all the tightest, finest poon in your city is your partner. Your biology antagonizing your cultural programming. The less seed spreading you do the more your desire for other women grows, while the desire for your partner dwindles. Pre-selection plays a role too because you get way more IOI's from other women when in a relationship which amplifies this feeling. You eventually grow to resent your partner for preventing you from filling your biological need and it ultimately leads to the downfall of the relationship.
Considering males and females differing mating strategies, how could a man derive joy from a modern relationship, taking his biology into account? There's a few options:
- Suppress all desire to ravage other women, live within the confines of monogamy. The lower your value the easier this will be, because other women aren't looking at you anyway. The higher your value, the more you will feel like a shaken champagne bottle on the verge of explosion. I doubt you'd be able to endure it without breaking up eventually and if you did you deserve a burial alongside mother Theresa.
- Simply cheat without the knowledge of your partner. This appeases the feeling that the only barrier between you and a fuckfest is your partner. You are free to give her your best while dabbling in the SMP. More often than not you will find that most woman are far shittier than your partner anyway, which in turn increases your appreciation for the relationship, making you more motivated to participate. It allows you to execute your mating strategy, while she executes hers. You will almost certainly get caught eventually, know the risks.
You will find many woman to engage in the first two scenarios with(because obviously she isn't aware of the cheating). The next two not so much.
- Engage in a polygamous relationship on your side. Allow yourself to have sexual relations with other woman, while she remains faithful. She accepts your position because she's still your main girl and you are a high value catch. You treat her as you would an LTR. Take care of her biological needs, while taking care of yours in the form of plowing other women when the urge arises. This is an extremely rare set up in modern western society, might still have legs in the middle east. Requires a very submissive woman.
- You both agree to an open relationship. Although in theory this may benefit you because she is more driven to remain with one high value partner, while you are driven to poke everything that has a hole in it, it also opens some loopholes that work against you. It allows for unchecked Hypergamy, which in an open SMP is very difficult to manage considering many Chads would be willing to pump and dump her, but not commit. Your women fucking other men is also a tough pill to swallow for a territorial man. This set up could only hold up with your value remaining sky high high so that she doesn't really desire to fuck anyone else.
The final two options are possible but the social stigma and cultural conditioning that most women endure would leave far fewer women willing to participate.
Each and every man is free to choose any of the options above, but always be weary of the sacrifices you are making, and more importantly why you're making them. Be weary of what's been programmed into you culturally from birth and cognizant of what's been programmed into you biologically since the dawn of man in the form of biological drivers. Reconcile these two driving forces to create an environment that you thrive best in.
MagicCharles 5y ago
I would add that monogamy as an institution benefits an agricultural or industrial society, as it incentivizes productivity in low value males by guaranteeing them a mate and offspring, which they would seldom get in a more open market place, like today's. This explains why institutions (particularly religious ones) tend to normalize monogamy.
Ansec 5y ago
Not only that, but monogamy also helps the offspring development when there are two parents; mother and father. As a whole, society needs monogamy to function properly. Higher IQ population results, albeit slowly over time.
KeffirLime 5y ago
The environmental pressures enabling a monogamous society are gone.
What society will spawn in it's place is an interesting question.
We're seeing where it's heading, AF/BB type dynamic, but still very much in the transitioning phase.
I do think nature someway or another selects for what keeps the ball of life rolling. We'll certainly make wrong turns, but I think we course correct when our survival as a species is endangered.
chrisname 5y ago
I agree and I’m curious to find out how society is going to adjust. There is probably a mechanism in our psyches for dealing with this type of situation.
KeffirLime 5y ago
Possibly, my concern is the quicker we head towards a more automated, cognitive, online society, the less equipped we are biologically to deal with it.
Furthermore what's best for the growth and advancement of a species is not always aligned with what brings satisfaction and happiness to the species.
Interesting period for sure.
Zech4riah 5y ago
"What is better than a good pussy? - A new pussy." -Can't Remember who
[deleted] 5y ago
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KeffirLime 5y ago
The issue I have with escorts is it doesn't satisfy my biological desire to compete and conquer.
Entering a room full of other men and feeling the rush of taking down a difficult, stingy, full of shit(tests) woman and then dominating her. Building all that sexual tension and then releasing it out on her. I find that far more satisfying than having a woman roll over and spread for me because I paid her to.
reversec 5y ago
that's where libido comes from
ahhhhh the sensation of gaming
EvanPetersDouble 5y ago
Great post. Needed that as I'm currently under the phase I'm fucking other girls while in an "unnoficial" relationship (we haven't said anything yet but we're doing things people do in relationships) so you get the dynamics, and I'm a very territorial man. I doubt I wouldn't get pissed at a girlfriend for fucking other guys in case she found out I do fuck girls and wanted revenge.
Besides these options, is there one where I'm open to her and say that I fuck other girls without having her do the same?
She gets the hint and suspicions I do fuck, brings it up in a jealous humorous way and I deflect smirking and not answering or humoring back along with amused mastery, she seems to accept that and someone told me she rather share me than lose me. It makes sense because her girl friends probably told her they saw me with other women outside and her understatements are often very specific like she knows about it.
Any thoughts on this? Would appreciate.
KeffirLime 5y ago
For the time being there's no need to rock the boat, if she's not bringing up exclusively then keep the ball rolling as is, this set up favors you.
She probably intuitively knows you're fucking around but doesn't know for sure. This incentivizes her further.
When she does bring it up, you need to give her some sense of comfort while still dropping the bombshell that you won't be giving up other women. It's all in the delivery of the message.
I had a girl who was really keen, told her I'm happy to be with her and do things with her, but I'm not at a point in my life where I'm willing to be exclusive.
We had been seeing each other for a while at that point and she put uo with it. Not without a bit of resistance here and there though. Eventually her family and friends got too involved and I had to cut it off entirely, became more maintanence than enjoyment.
EvanPetersDouble 5y ago
I had a girl who was really keen, told her I'm happy to be with her and do things with her, but I'm not at a point in my life where I'm willing to be exclusive.
Exactly this is what's happening here in the meantime. Thanks!
The_Red_Trooper 5y ago
It's best for a guy to spin plates . It's hard being in a ltr if you are young because you will want to bang other women. Every ltr I was in I always wanted to bang other women no matter how good the girlfriend was. It sucks wanting to fuck anything that walks 24/7. Maybe this is why rollo tells guys to not be monogamous until your 30s. I know plenty of guys who cheat but they love their girlfriends to death. It's just hard banging the same chick over and over and over. But at the same time its nice to have a girl to call your own.
swampbastard69 5y ago
35 and that desire doesn't go away. Its probably worse now because I have more of an abundance mentality.
KeffirLime 5y ago
Certainly the easiest set up to pull off.
Biological seed spreading desires kicking in.
A couple reasons but certainly one of them. When you've been with enough women, you are able to draw on your experiences with all of them and accurately compare it's benefit to you vs. the benefit of being with the one woman your'e deciding to forego all other women for gives.
The urge to sleep with other women will still be there however.
Cheating is very different for men and women. Psychologically a man can cheat on his woman and still love her just the same, if not more afterwards. It does not mean he want's to branchswing.
When women cheat she won't love her man just the same after, and more often than not is a sign she wants to branchswing.
The paradox of dating.
that_italia_guy 5y ago
I think we are heading into a non monogamous territory. The monogamous world doesn't really fit anymore. Divorce rates are hard proof. Now that said, I believe some people have will still strongly believe in it. However the more and more people are starting to come to terms that you can have the best of both worlds. It's actually most beneficial for both parties. For guys obviously the biological part of spreading his seed and feeding the need to fuck multiple women. And for women they can do the same, but I believe for them it will be about having multiple partners be able to take care of them all at the same time. Most likely resulting in an alpha provider, but also secondary alphas like partners that fulfill the gaps they are looking for. Because no one person can be good at everything. Some things are contradictory in some cases. This is my two cents. Also where I live I'm starting to see this trend. However it's not full blown yet.
mental_models 5y ago
looks like a pretty accurate basic recap
Churningaway 5y ago
I have had this issue in every single relationship, in high school, college and now in my early career..
The girl wants me to commit and makes some power play to get me locked in (one told me she was sick and would be dying soon, another told me life is too short - why take a chance apart when we could be together now?).
I do love her/them, but simply can't fathom why I'd get married, every single time. Things end up blowing up in the end cause the cultural programming and my biology end up fighting it out and the biology wins everytime. It's a bit exhausting though...any way to avoid that blow up in the end? It's definitely not healthy cause I end up lashing out or walking out. Is it just letting them know in the beginning I probably won't commit?
KeffirLime 5y ago
Avoid this.
The polygamy scenarios are an option, but hard to set up. You could simply engage in polygamy with out her knowledge. The last scenario is simply enjoying each relationship for what it is, and what it has to offer, and when it runs it's course, move on.
This is an option, they would probably need a bit more comfort than that. That they will get your best, but there will be other women. Throughout relationship they would need this comfort.
[deleted] 5y ago
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The_Red_Trooper 5y ago
Same here. It's hard fucking one women
MrCongeniality1 5y ago
Unfortunately, the polygamous relationship strategies are so stigmatized, you would likely suffer career setbacks. At the same time, breaking out of the corporate chains and building your own business would be an alpha trait.
Churningaway 5y ago
This is important point. If you plan on being a corporate slave your whole life you're still blue pill in a sense. The truth lies in using your time and resources to make yourself truly free
KeffirLime 5y ago
Boss: Hi guys, bring your partners to the end of year function
*Shows up with a harem
U-94 5y ago
I make sure to bring a different date to every event. On social media, there is literally no paper trail of me with the same woman twice. Obfuscation at its finest.
Ludakrit 5y ago
If that were the case we would be a monogamous species. We are not.
KeffirLime 5y ago
Not in its entirety, for the reproductive process.
Ludakrit 5y ago
We aren't monogamous for reproductive purposes either. At all. In fact women are designed to shop around sexually to secure the best sperm in a group sex environment to get the best possible genetics.
ZephyrBluu 5y ago
Uh, where is the evidence to back that up? I believe the reality was the complete opposite. Men were promiscuous and women were monogamous in the sense that they would only be with 1 man at time.
Ludakrit 5y ago
Not at all. It's all biological. Why do you think women have a dual mating strategy based on their period? Why do you think women have concealed estrus? Have you ever contemplated the insane cost intertribal conflict has when you have zero modern medicine and a scratch can kill? Why do you think human males have enormous balls in comparison to other apes? Why do you think less that ~ 1% of male ejaculate can actually impregnate while the rest is designed to kill competitor sperm?
If we were a monogamous winner take all tournament species that fought over women their asses would turn bright red occasionally letting us know when to fight over them. That doesn't happen. Why do you think women only have a 15-25% chance of getting pregnant in any given month? Why do you think women can take so much more dick than men can dish out?
KeffirLime 5y ago
Let me try make it simpler.
Woman shops for one man. Finds one man. That one man sticks his one penis in her pussy. They then have one child(most of the time).
Ludakrit 5y ago
Wrong. Multiple men fuck the same woman. Woman doesn't shop and pick one man. Sperm competition occurs.
KeffirLime 5y ago
Nope. She doesn't fuck multiple men and hope the best sperm impregnates her. That's not how natural selection works.
The fittest get to procreate. The men compete, the strongest candidate than fucks and impregnates her.
Otherwise women would be attracted to every overweight neckbeard just as much as Brad Pitt, and then say hey "let's fuck all of you and let your sperm fight it out"
Ludakrit 5y ago
Everyone fucked. Having sex does not = having a baby. The human penis is designed to remove competitor sperm. Male semen is designed to block other male's semen. Women's vaginal mucus is designed to let some sperm through and kill others. The facts are all available. You simply don't understand Human Reproductive Biology. Go do your homework.
KeffirLime 5y ago
It certainly can and the consequences of it are strenuous on the female. She wouldn't risk fucking low status men as 9 months of pregnancy plus years of post natal care for a piece of shit feotus is far too detrimental.
It's such a risky strategy to evolve our nature around.
I've read that study, you're making final conclusions about our sexual nature based on one factor. Really observe and evaluate male female interactions? Are we having fat orgies trying to poke eachothers sperm out or are we generally selecting for the highest possible opposite?
The penis is designed to shoot sperm deep into a woman. Is removing sperm a function the penis evolved to have, or is it just by chance that fucking a chick with a penis after another man comes in her removes his sperm? Looking at the balance of our sexual behaviour would give us clarity on that, nothing about the balance of our sexual behaviour suggests so.
I'm not sayingwith absolute certainty that it doesn't have that function, perhaps two males of similar value competed on such a level. It doesn't mean our biology is driving us to have all encompassing orgies with low level males. Look at the bigger picture.
I've done my homework, and read all aspects of it, and taken all factors into account, not parrot some shit I read online.
Ludakrit 5y ago
How cute you imagine women had agency in pre-civilization. LOL.
SexdictatorLucifer 5y ago
What and now they do have agency? Us inventing civilization didn't have women suddenly "whoah, I think I'll select men now instead of the standard semen war in my pussy." They're the same as they've always been. Your semen war theory is autistic as fuck.
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johnpayne10 5y ago
I have one question here... Suppose you enter into a relationship with a woman where you are polygamous and she is loyal to you. Now obviously you won't marry her. Just stay loyal and keep her as your primary plate.
What happens when you impregnate some other chick? Because obviously, biologically we are driven to create as many offsprings as possible. But the shit world we live in forces us to pay child support to the mother. Even if we are not married. So fucking/impregnating multiple women means we get legally involved with multiple chicks. That would be awful. Alternative option would be to not impregnate anyone else... But then polygamy doesn't make much sense. The point is in spreading our seed far and wide. So what can be done?
reversec 5y ago
Just ghost the woman that you impregnated
KeffirLime 5y ago
It's not necessarily about spreading your actual seed, but rather about managing the desire to do so.
Your Lizard Brain doesn't necesarily register when you fuck a different woman that this act won't result in a child. You get temporary relief from your biological drive. Continue to fuck different woman and your desire should be sufficiently managed.
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
Unless he doesn't have options for short term dating through either scarcity of women or his own lack of short term mating appeal.
It's only high value men that are making this sacrifice. Billy Beta isn't sacrificing, he is actually gaining by being able to fuck one woman.
mrssmithhh 5y ago
I think this is fascinating... It seems like high value men decided it was good for everybody is they, the high-value men who could have everything, sacrificed. It's really heroic, in a way. It could just be born out of pragmatism, but I don't see how that makes it less noble. The high-value men must have been very committed to creating a better world, and must have had lots of foresight, self-control, and passion for creating a stable and productive society. It's really impressive and admirable.
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
Unless of course.... it means: you betas go ahead and marry so that I can freely fuck your wife that you support while you raise my kids.
mrssmithhh 5y ago
Oh, well, if that's the case then no, it's not heroic. It's just Machiavellian and hypocritical and lacks integrity and is nothing more than opportunity-seeking monkey behavior.
The_Red_Trooper 5y ago
Yeah most men won't have the opportunity to fuck plenty of women. They are satisfied with one girl .
MrCongeniality1 5y ago
I would refine the point about a woman needing good genes and protection. Women experience multiple impulses independent of each other. A woman's desire for "good genes" is independent of her desire for care, resources, and protection. At one point in the not too distant past, a man's ability to provide and protect were intertwined with his physicality. This has been lost to the modern age. Therefore, you get women wanting the whole enchilada but not having it available to her, so she compromises, cheats, or adopts different pairing strategies at different times in life - i.e. AF/BB.
KeffirLime 5y ago
Her desire for procreation(sex) doesn't change. She still wants the high value man, although she is aware that her survival is endangered in that pursuit. So she settles for the beta but does not desire him over the high quality mate, which leads to low procreation(sex) drive for her beta.
The tribe in hunter gatherer groups would act as the provider, so it's not that she now desires the beta, she desires the tribe, who the beta fills the role of.
Lordadidas 5y ago
And if the beta doesn’t fill the role of supplicating tribe, daddy government will.
Foobyx 5y ago
to answer to your options for joy in modern relationship
It totally sucks, but maybe getting pussy is not an end in itself. I do believe and hope, that after some years, you can find joy and happiness in raising kids, cultivate your friendships, growing your home and having other projects with your LTR.
yeah, all our life we will desire the attention of some fresh girl and bang her, it's instincts. But our reason should be superior to our instincts otherwise we are only animals, so we should resist the chick appeal as we resist the booze when working tomorrow, the bed while we should workout, the unhealthy food, etc.
KeffirLime 5y ago
This is the crux of the post. The Barrier Effect. Your instincts affect your reason.
What happens when your biological urge to spread your seed starts to impact on your relationship. You start to desire your partner less. You start to desire other women more. You start to resent her.
How does a relationship thrive under such conditions? What is the solution to such a problem?
(Low value men do not have this problem)
The opposite would be like a woman dating Joe the garbage collector who has the possibility to now date Brad Pitt. She simply cannot feel attraction for her current bf. No matter how much logic she applies.
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purplecabbage 5y ago
Another option is to 'go gay'. That opens up a whole new set of considerations between the couple.