Let’s break interaction down into two components: Substance and Aesthetic.
Substance is the concrete, practical outcome of a given interaction. Two businessmen go into a negotiation, both bargaining for a deal in their favor; the one who walks out with the better deal wins in terms of Substance. A guys’ roommates want to have a party at their apartment the night before he has to get up early and he says no and the party ends up not happening- he wins in terms of Substance. Substance is actually getting your way when you walk away from an interaction.
Aesthetic is how you go about doing this. Aesthetic is your appearance and tone of voice, attitude, how smooth you are in interactions. Aesthetic is a smile, a calm demeanor, a promised assertiveness underneath friendly words, brevity, and conveying power.
Both Substance and Aesthetic are important, and either can precede the other; some people “fake it till they make it” and put on an alpha aesthetic before they truly know how to get what they want substantively; some people go for substance first and hold firm and get what they want even if they appear nervous or upset while doing it and don’t have a good aesthetic. Neither of these approaches are the “wrong” way, and most people on their journey to self-mastery do a mix of both.
But I will say that when it comes down to it, Substance beats Aesthetic. For example, sometimes when being assertive, saying no, or telling somebody something they did wasn’t acceptable, we may stutter, we may get upset, we may over-explain ourselves sometimes. Sometime we walk away from interactions and it bothers us because we felt weak or didn’t “come across” as alpha as we wanted to. But I’m here to tell you that as long as you walked away from something and you won substantively, it's no big deal.
You should work on your Aesthetic; don’t be too weak, but don’t be overly aggressive either. Learn to keep calm, use the bare minimum necessary assertiveness to get what you want, and do not be aggressive for aggressiveness’ sake. People who puff out their chests and get red in the face and overly-dominant in social interactions have something to prove. Be as assertive as you have to; no more. If you can learn to be assertive and convey power while also being laidback and relaxed, you have hit the perfect balance.
But on your journey to perfecting your Aesthetic, you will fall short sometimes. Sometimes you'll walk away from an interaction wishing you had acted tougher or been more witty. But when this happens just file it away to use for next time and move on. Substance ALWAYS comes first. Like Jordan Peterson says, speak the truth, even if your voice shakes. Stand up for yourself. People may get upset at you, shit test you, or guilt you for acting in your self-interest (because shame is second only to physical violence in effectiveness at getting people to do what you want), but as long as you hold fast to your frame, set boundaries with people, and end up getting what you want while still being fair and principled- tell your boss you want a raise, tell your friend something they did was unacceptable, tell that girl who blew you off that you are not interested in her anymore when she comes back around and wants to go out again- you win.
Substance over Aesthetic.
Thank you for reading.
ArdAtak 5y ago
I personally take way more pride in getting my way by being sweet, charming, & charismatic than by being a bully or intimidating. When you finess people successfully you feel really good about yourself. But when you're forced to be a bully you'll be glad you got your way but I personally walk away wishing I could have been smoother.
warlordchad 5y ago
It’s not a good practice to be dishonest, but if your voice is shaking, maybe don’t speak the truth. Especially with women—there’s something to be said for knowing when to keep your mouth shut. Remember what Rollo says: don’t tell a woman why she shouldn’t sleep with you.
Klaatu678 5y ago
Right, it's more of a metaphor- JP was using it in the context of oppressed groups of people standing up to communist/fascist governments and proclaiming that what they're doing is wrong, like when Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn wrote the Gulag Archipelago; lol so of course their "voices" in this context might be a bit shaky. But in this context I'm just applying that same general philosophy to holding frame with people; being firm, and saying no, even if you feel weak at first or if it's difficult. I don't think your voice should literally be shaking just from saying no to someone who's shit testing you, that would definitely be a sign of some kind of extreme anxiety disorder haha.
[deleted]
AutoModerator 5y ago
Just a friendly reminder that as TRP has been quarantined, we have developed backup sites: https://www.trp.red and our full post archive (and future forums) https://www.forums.red/i/TheRedPill. Don't forget to register on TRP.RED and reserve your reddit name today. Forums.Red is currently locked but will be opened soon.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
DullIntroduction 5y ago
If I understood correctly, what you're talking about is verbal (substance) vs non-verbal (Aesthetic) communication. And I think you got it backwards.
In terms of how much you can communicate with, non-verbal communication beats verbal at every turn. What we say in words is very little compared to what we say with basically everything else.
It's been theorized that your actual words are 10% of your message, 40% are your voice (tone, rythm, etc), the rest is everything else : gestures, context, how you look, how you smell, and many other factors that everyone percieves subconsciously.
The "No" example is a good one. The verbal form is only a single word, but if you stutter, have a weird tone, or say it with a bad posture, it won't have the desired effect.
And on the other side, by simply removing the verbal part (after all, it is a very small percentage), you can be as effective, if not more. Walk away, or stay silent, that is holding frame.
Aesthetic is the frame.
Robster25 5y ago
I think you have to differentiate. Action speaks louder than words is what OP means, I guess. If you say "no" to someone and stutter or your voice is trembling it may appear weak. But if you walk away after that it demonstrates strength. They may laugh at your weak behaviour at first, but when they realize that you are gone, they tend to forget about your weakness and look at your last action: walking away.
DullIntroduction 5y ago
Except that you choose first to use words, which fails, then walk away, which still looks weak after losing your frame during a confrontation. You're rationalizing saving face with demonstrating stength.
If actions really speak louder than words, you walk away without a word. Same action, different perspective.
Robster25 5y ago
I get what you mean, but don't you think that saving face doesn't take strength, especially in a weak moment? Instead you could've chased the other person. Sure, you could've done better in the first place, but the last action they see is you walking away.
DullIntroduction 5y ago
Depending on the context, it could save face, or look autistic. But it doesn't really matter in the long term. The important thing is to pinpoint your mistake and make sure it doesn't happen again.
midgetpooooo 5y ago
Hm, like you said, it's pretty much Frame 101
4matting 5y ago
You mentioned JBP. Your post might get canned bud. lol
VitalMixofNutrients 5y ago
The business negotiation only occurred because the negotiation was a bargain to one person and a normal thing to another. This goes for aesthetic as well, because one person might think that something is a bargain while another person sees it as a normal thing.
​
zyqkvx 5y ago
Doing this without minding the 48 laws of power is a recipe for a disaster.
In my league, I don't cheat. Primarily it's not because any moral sentiment, it's because everyone knows who cheats and who doesn't. Cheaters get to look like asses and get to squirm. Don't cheat and your halo effect goes up.