TL;DR: I need some insight on past relationships to close my loop on understanding how TRP theory applies. 99% makes sense except why they were attracted at the beginning.
Hey all,
I recently finished the Rational Male and I started on Preventative Medicine. I’m positive that I missed some stuff and my plan now is to power through to the end and go through the whole series again after.
As a preface, I spent most of “The Rational Male” nodding my head, even at times laughing with how true something is. “Preventative Medicine” contains the first passage I read that really made me angry, but it wasn’t anger at the book, it was a weird feeling of anger and agreeing about the dichotomy of support for men vs support for women especially during their 20-25 phase, as that’s where I’m in right now.
Anyways, maybe this is a common question other people have had and it’s something that keeps sticking out at me. I had 3 decent-length LTRs in my past, which I can’t figure out by what logic these girls decided to go for it. I will lay them out here briefly. There’s been lots of “duh” moments since I started reading, including many moments in my LTRs and moments towards the end of my LTRs. But for some reason, the beginning of them to me is where I can’t come up with a reasoning for, and I want some input.
-------------
LTR 1
I’m 17, she’s 17. She has a BF who is 18 (away at college). She's pretty good looking, does well in school and I've known her for a long time. At the time, I'm obese with a BMI of \~33, wear all kinds of clothes that don't fit and look ridiculous, and I'm in probably the lamest afterschool activities you can be in, certainly not sports. I did have a friend group, but it was nothing special.
I had been an orbiter of this girl for practically her whole post-elementary school life. So practically like 5 years at this point. Emotional tampon, the works.
She asks me to help her study physics, we end up alone at my house several times, which she drove me to, out in bumfuck. One time we make out. She starts getting in fights with BF more often. I am her side chick [sic], lining myself up to date and I am the emotional tampon through the entire fight of 2 months (distance added to the time). Finally she breaks up, goes totally off the radar for like 2 days, comes back and decides she wants a relationship. Whoopee, first relationship.
Proceed to spend the next 1.5 years constantly dealing with bipolar insanity and all sorts of shit. I break up because she is wanting to hang out less and less, literally turning me down to go do actually dumb shit with her friends. She's a cunt to me all the time when I do see her at this point. Unsurprisingly, as soon as I break it off, she quick turns around and wants to fix everything - probably because it was the only time I had ever been 'alpha' with her. I refused, and obviously she got more and more crazy about me for a few weeks before finally fucking some random stoner dude I worked with, probably as 'revenge.'
LTR 2 - note, I kind of understand what happened with this one, no need to spend much time
I'm 18, she is 18. I'm still obese w/ BMI 33. She is also obese w/ about the same BMI.
We met at some college shit a few months before college started, I texted to her a lot during the breakup. Basically orbiting, but she is responding well. We live across the state so nothing doing until college. College starts and we start dating the first day, basically. I know, I know. Probably the dumbest thing you could do. I'll make sure to tell my son, my dad never told me.
We date for about 6 months, and I bitch about my last LTR to her for about 6 months... lol. Things were OK, but I really wasn't attracted to her and eventually I just decided that wasn't what I wanted. She also turned down over time to where hanging out was fucking boring unless we were doing sexual things which I was becoming less interested in with her because she was obese.
Beautiful thing happened after we broke up, since we met day 1 of college, we understandably had basically the same friend group, except she had way more. So when we broke up, she went around and basically poisoned my entire friend group telling them all kinds of bad shit about me. I wouldn't find this out for 1.5 years, after 1.5 years of literally everyone in my friend group being cold as fuck with me inexplicably. After I found out, I slowly was able to fix shit with that group and in the end everybody realized she was a cunt and I was pretty cool. To be honest, I never would've had any animosity for her had she not done that to me. Luckily I had a small side friend group that panned out separately, which leads me to the next one.
Note: after this one, I dropped like 40 pounds to a BMI of like 28ish, where I was for my next LTR.
LTR 3
I'm 20, she's 20. As mentioned, I dropped some weight to about dad-bod level. She's very average looking but normal size.
My "small side friend group" was just one dude who was curating girls in his rotation. I was unknowingly playing along (didn't find out until later that semester). It would be me, him and a group of 3 or 4 girls. They apparently didn't realize but he had banged all of them. New girl comes who he hasn't banged yet, I hit it off with her. Take her to a concert, she meets this jacked tall af dude there who outclasses me by about 6 ranks at least, apparently she knew him from HS. He's working his game, so I basically step in and don't let that happen because I'm not about to get cucked and waste my night. We go back to my place to get her coat I conveniently had her leave there, and then we fuck.
We are hooking up non-stop for about 3 weeks but the following semester she's going to Europe to study 1 sem. Interestingly enough, during those 3 weeks at one point a girl in our small group got drunk and overtly offered to bang me. LTR girl actually offered me to do it and she walk away no questions asked. I declined. Later that semester, the guy who was curating his lineup got really pissy with me and tried making moves on her one last time since he basically 'did all the work' for her, but she declined.
Returns from EU, following semester I hit her up, we hang out. I beg her to date for a week (beta) and she isn't sure, but finally caves. Relationship is really vanilla, which is OK. I'm just watching all of my college sexual opportunities roll by with a dumb smile on my face. I would go back and kick the shit out of myself if I could, but IIWII. She graduates 1 year before me. Proceed to spend my SENIOR YEAR in a FUCKING LONG DISTANCE RELATIONSHIP. I could write you a book why that was dumb. I graduate, we date for about a year more. I'm not bragging, just stating facts here, I cheated about 2 or 3 times in this relationship, which was the first time I had ever done that. Mostly because I wound up in a position where another girl just wanted it to happen and I didn't say no. She finds out about one and (???) stays with me anyways. Eventually I break up because I can't live with that boulder over my head and the LDR complicates it. In hindsight, I think she set me up so I had to break up. As soon as I did, she came rolling back begging to take her back, and as usual, she is banging some other dude within 2 weeks of saying forever shit like that.
--------
So that's them. I just see all of this mess and think, what the fuck did any of these girls see in me? The only one I think there was any degree of 'alpha' with was the last one, briefly at the beginning. Why did they give away their "peak years" to an LTR with a chubby beta bitch? Particularly LTR1 and LTR3. LTR2, I think I understand that she just saw she was not attractive and probably her best bet was to find a good beta during that time she could groom into thinking it was normal to have an obese girlfriend.
LTR1 and LTR3 both probably could've played 'the game' and enjoyed the 'party life' but chose to be with me instead. This is the missing link. The only thing I can come up with is that both of them had divorced parents and lived with their moms.
​
I'm not expecting someone to read my palm here, just spitball some ideas as to why would a girl throw away her peak years for an LTR when there's so many glaring examples of him (me) being a beta? Like pounding on the TV screaming at the guy in the movie examples...
​
Thanks
OfficerWade 5y ago
I would say timing is important. A handsome dude at the right place at the right time, engaging with a women can end a marriage, or empire. Just be careful what you wish for.
Zech4riah 5y ago
My 2 first LTRs are still in the top10 of hottest girls I've been with. Solid 9s both.
Beta game works for LTR purposes even tho most guys here don't want to admit it. The reasons why it works has been covered already in other comments of this post.
SUCK_MY_DICTIONARY 5y ago
Yeah, I actually finished Rational Male Preventative Medicine and it became way more clear why it happened.
The two that I am most curious about really didn't have father figures so their mother's could have vicariously pushed them to try and find a more beta guy because the mother might have pushed her towards betas because if she had picked a better beta before the wall, she would have somebody to help her support herself and her daughter. Double down on that, she didn't have a real male figure in her life, but her mother still had duties so probably she learned that girls can be more 'alpha' sometimes.
One of my takeaways from Preventative Medicine was sort of a 4-quadrant type thing, where you have Male / Female, then Alpha / Beta. He doesn't really say anything about this, but it was how it ended up mapping out in my head. When we think of a supermodel, she is basically far in the female alpha corner. So she will probably want a guy who is far in the male alpha corner (things change over time, people aren't always as they seem, the whole 9 yards, but I'm talking pure theory). These girls were probably floating around the middle of the whole quadrant due to their family situations, which meant that it didn't take much to impress them (as long as you weren't a super beta).
Couple with this their phase in life, both of them already "peaked" in high school and you could see in their actions during and after the relationship that they were essentially in their "epiphany" stage. Both of them really didn't find a niche in college and they openly disliked it, and they are moving more into the 'homey' mindset now. In hindsight, I wasn't full beta, but I was maybe somewhere in the middle, sometimes more alpha, sometimes more beta. The reality is that at their current prospect, having already 'had their fun,' I looked like a great deal. Just enough alpha to be fun, sometimes, maybe. Certainly enough beta that they could count on me. They never cheated on me or anything, there was never any fear in the LTR on my side. And if for some reason they needed to step up, they were no stranger to doing that.
I guess bottom line is, girls will settle on a beta if he meets her biggest need. Rollo's graph where men peak at \~37, even he says that peak is primarily because as a beta he is most useful then. Betas are valueless until girls start needing them, around the epiphany phase and afterwards. I just happened to catch 2 in the epiphany phase really early. And from the first book, I had this idea that girls don't like betas, and there's a big asterisk on that, they love betas, when they can help them. Betas have zero value to a girl who is peaking. She'll cross that bridge when she gets there. So if you want girls in their peak to maximize your own gain from a situation, you have to be more alpha.
​
​
Zech4riah 5y ago
Yes, plate spinning TRP Alphas biggest enemy is actually disney blue pill beta who gives the girl what she wants and/or thinks she wants.
Nicolas0631 5y ago
I don't think there much to understand there because we don't really know you or them and we don't get enough details.
But don't try to see other people, be it mens or womens as computers that always act the same way if provided with the same stimula.
The first relationship actually you were successful to get that girl because she was felling really bad after her breaking with her boy friend and you were was conveniantly there available to help. Also you were thinking she was great value because of her physical appearance and you were low value because of your bad physical appeance. To her she was significantly lower value because she knew her bipolar issues and you were significantly higher value because you were always present in her life to help her.
The third relationship she already knew you and likely liked you. She may not have accepted your behavior if she didn't know you but she appreciated you already and had nobody else. It was conveniant to finally accept to be with you again as you were quite motivated on your side.
​
People have a big issue with alpha and beta concept and how girls react to them. First they think it only apply to mens, they seems to think all women act like alpha and they also forget that there a lot to dislike in alpha behavior and a lot to like in beta behavior.
Women appreciate alpha that's right and they want the best man they can that's right. Exactly like men actually want to get the best women too anyway. But they also appreciate many of the beta qualities, this is part of the theory actually.
Ideally you are an alpha in the sence you are confident, independant and you have frame. But also you are beta in the sence that you care for her too, you are generous and understanding. You don't accept her shit more than you should, but not less than you should neither.
MrTrizzles 5y ago
What you're missing is that most TRP principles are generalizations, not laws or axioms. So the core principles of TRP will usually be accurate enough, but not always.
I didn't read your post closely, but it sounds like you're wondering about your successes since they didn't really match how TRP claims things work.
A little charm, charisma or social skill can go a long way -- qualities which you might possess in some small measure but are unaware. Many guys here are zeros on those three counts, so don't get too caught up in comparing experiences.
Th3V3rg3 5y ago
Some chicks like beta's... some dudes like dudes. Humans aren't a one sized fits all species.
meowgoesdog 5y ago
Agree but I think it should be empathized that they only THINK they like betas, they like feeling like they're the shit, feel like they are the boss in the relationship, but as you can tell these relationships always end up like shit, the girl cheating, going dumbshit, being passive aggressive.
SUCK_MY_DICTIONARY 5y ago
Yeah that's what I was under the impression. They aren't actually attracted to betas, they just make a decision based on what they perceive their SMV to be. They're always attracted to alphas, but will unenthusiastically deal with a beta if they think it benefits them more.
I added a potentially important note, LTR1 and LTR3 both were girls who had single moms. So it is possible that they really didn't know what a guy is supposed to be like and therefore tolerated the weird shit I did. I think for LTR3 it's possible the first time she was impressed by me standing up to her chatting up another dude, but the second time when I practically begged her I really don't know what she saw in that.
I in no way am trying to excuse that behavior, but rather like this: I can recall just about any event with a girl and with my current understanding, I get it why it happened the way it did. The begging and the waiting on her before the relationship is the stuff I actually can't put together any logic for her being attracted to that enough to get in an LTR. IMO if you can explain why something was the wrong choice, you're a lot better of than just saying "don't do that" because people who can't explain why are like fat people who "quit drinking soda" and order extra large fries instead. I'm worried it's possible I do the same thing, just change the flavor. I would like to iron it out completely.
Rational Male gives me the impression that generally there is a lot of logic to how a girl decides what she's going to do, it's just not explicitly stated. Like she isn't going to go with somebody who is less attractive than somebody who is more attractive if she feels she has other options. For both of those girls, I feel like they probably did have other options. But idk, that's what I mean, like if everything else makes sense, why doesn't this part?
KeffirLime 5y ago
It seems like none of these girls were particularly attractive.
Guys who have options won't be settling/dating girls like this, at best they'll pump and dump.
These women, in fact all women, seek some sense of comfort at all times. They want to feel desired, by atleast some men. They're far more biologically inclined to seek the safety net of relationship(with a man). Chad certainly won't give them that feeling.
So she'll date a beta as a safety net, validated, desired by someone.
It by no means meant that If a better option presented itself, and I don't mean a get pumped and dumped option, but an option to date, LTR, they would have gladly taken the upgrade.
You were a comfort zone, for women lacking attention, which is why they treated you as such.
Fulltilt_Ronny 5y ago
TRP is a theoretic construct, not actual science. some stuff may be relevant to you while some may be not. some experiences in your life may validate TRP theorys while others may not.
to me, most of the stuff here seems wrong. TRPs answer to this is not: "well maybe we Need to differentiate more or go back to the drawing board". to TRP, everything that questions their view of the world or falsifies their theories is "blue pill cucked beta shit". which tells me again that this is not science.
hope that helps.
[deleted]
kleggen456 5y ago
Agreed, a lot of people seem to belive that everything here is facts, which it simply is not. It is more a philosophy (as you said) with elements from science.
AutoModerator 5y ago
Just a friendly reminder that as TRP has been quarantined, we have developed backup sites: https://www.trp.red and our full post archive (and future forums) https://www.forums.red/i/TheRedPill. Don't forget to register on TRP.RED and reserve your reddit name today. Forums.Red is currently locked but will be opened soon.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.