I’ve been noticing an uptick in comments bemoaning or worrying about things which are a detriment to men in general, or demographic trends, or even society as a whole. Maybe #metoo, maybe unjust laws, maybe workplace discrimination beginning to scare you? Make one of these comments? Feeling the same way? Read on:
It seems you, like many people, have discovered the limits of TRP philosophy. Note that I say limits instead of flaws. TRP is a philosophy of sexual strategy for men in a woman-dominated society. To that end it is both selfish and occasionally surreptitious. That is not a negative thing; TRP is also amoral (not immoral).
Now that said, this is a limitation of scope because we often encounter men here bringing up what TRP is not.
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TRP is not meant to benefit society at large, your race, your country, men only, or anyone but yourself. There is camaraderie here, but man is not your ally because he too is man. It is accepted in the origins of TRP that society is in decline; we do not wish to stop or reverse this, just exploit it for our own enjoyment.
- TRP is not out to affect broad social change for your benefit. For the benefit of you and you alone, it is unlikely anything will be accomplished by championing a cause. Unless you want to become a martyr, you’re not going to do much by trying to fight false accusations or discriminatory sentencing out of the system. TRP espouses keeping your head down.
There are other related manosphere movements which overlap or frequently reference TRP enough that the confusion is understandable:
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There’s Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) which advocates checking out of the sexual marketplace and improving yourself for yourself alone. The self-improvement is common to TRP, even down to not improving yourself just to get women, but the difference is that at the end of the day a Redpill man will use his gains to game, and will not be so risk averse with women. Risk aversion out of fear of #metoo is MGTOW.
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Men’s Rights Advocacy (MRA) is about pointing out and fighting systemic discrimination against men. Duluth Model, child support, alimony, disparity in sentencing, paternity determination, Title IX kangaroo courts, and the like belong there. TRP does espouse awareness of such hazards, but not fighting them openly. There’s a reason MRA philosophy is maligned as an anti-woman circlejerk (other than bluepill conditioning): they make little progress, and end up ranting about the issues to no avail.
- There is also Pickup Artistry (PUA), a largely outmoded predecessor to TRP. It was all about the game and frame, with no real drive for self-improvement. Some of the common terms and beliefs of TRP did come from PUA a long time ago though. Anything left of it is largely scams to the tune of “get women quick”, though it was always largely such scams in the first place.
Hopefully this clears things up; believe what you choose, work for what you choose, but remember that a particular discipline has its own purpose. If ‘taking the red pill’ began here for you, but you instead wish to fix society or just don’t want to pick up women at all, I wish you the best. That is just not the focus here.
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Your_Coke_Dealer 5y ago
Mods, kindly let me know if this is flaired correctly; I’ve tagged it as Meta because of the reason I made the post, though it is more about differentiating manosphere philosophies
tempolaca 5y ago
Exactly. I got #metoo'ed badly two years ago by a coworker. Needless to say, my life went to the shithole quite quickly. LTR leaved, friends and work dissapeared. Nothing I can do about it. Not even a rape or abuse accusation, mind you. Bitch just got angry and denounced "hostility and harassment towards her" kid you not. Never even wrote her an email, all false accusations and she actually lost the lawsuits. Didn't really mattered in the court of public opinion.
I'm going MGTOW not because I wanted it, but really in my situation any girl will understandably bail out. This will be just temporal but the #metoo threat is real and I'm not the only one in my situation, there's at least 4 of my friends going through the same process.
red2hilt 5y ago
Can you tell us this story in a reply? It sounds very strange that it would get to the level of a lawsuit, if you'd never so much as even sent her an email? What happened exactly, and what do you think caused this?
Churningaway 5y ago
I would be interested to see a post on avoiding #metoo if there is one already. This shit sounds horrible if you get hit with it. My condolences man
tempolaca 5y ago
In my experience seeing a friend that survived this, he just plowed ahead like nothing happened. After some time, say 5 or 6 years, nobody remembers. The crazy girl will still talk about him in every social media network though, every fucking week, but at this time every time she rambles about him, makes her look like what she is: a crazy obsessed person.
His life changed completely though, he has a new girlfriend, new job, etc. Very little left from his previous life, it's truly a character assassination.
Your_Coke_Dealer 5y ago
Multiple such posts exist, but I don’t know if a single one of them was added to the sidebar, because there’s no consensus on that matter, and it’s already basically a tangential matter to TRP.
SmamelessMe 5y ago
This is a repost from elsewhere, but I chose to post it here again, since I think it may add to the discussion.
Each of the communities associated with TRP has different mantra. It is up to you what you take from it. Here is my personal opinion and take-away from each community.
Pick Up Artists (PUA)
It taught me what it means to be attractive.
The Red Pill (TRP)
It taught me not just how to fake, but how to achieve, and why I should want to achieve, attractive traits.
Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW)
It taught me how to spot and avoid danger.
Men's Rights Activists (MRA)
It taught me that there are large number of areas where men do have it harder than women.
Red Pill Women (RPW)
It taught me there are women who do not take "feminine role" in relationship as excuse the spend the rest of their life after popping out one or two kids unemployed on a couch.
Now obviously, these points are exaggerated for dramatic effect. They obviously do not apply to all of the information posted under given label, but it is a general representation of the best and worst information I picked up on each of the subs.
warlordchad 5y ago
That feminism is trying to take away men's freedom is a fact, but it is an implicit goal, or side effect if you will, of the movement.
On the surface, feminists believe they are asking for equal rights relating to the economy and the law, which I don't think most people object to. The problem is that women believe this means equality of outcome, and when you factor in gender differences, that's impossible.
Consider attraction for example. For a relatively brief time in most women's lives, they are highly desirable to men--say between 18--27, maybe 30 to be generous. But after that it's a distinct downhill to 40 and then an ever steepening decent into irrelevance. Men on the other hand, are mildly desirable to women from 18--the late 20's, then are moderately to highly desirable until they hit 45, 50, or if the guy stays in shape and has good money, even into the 60's.
We can quibble of course, about the numbers, but regardless the overall dynamic holds true. This is a biological reality. There's no way to legislate equality of outcomes or even of opportunity here. It just is what it is.
Furthermore, because women are biologically inclined to view the world through their emotions, they are at an economic disadvantage. It can be overcome to some degree, but it's never going to come natural, and when competing against a man, that means he has an distinct edge.
There are other gender differences I could get into here as well, such as a woman's predilection to care for small children or a man's inclination to hunt and fish, but the point is that we are never going to have equality of outcome between the sexes. It's impossible.
And that's where feminism goes wrong, because the only way to ensure equality of outcome between women is to make women more like men and to limit male freedom. But make no mistake about it: they are trying to take away our freedom; they just either don't know that's the goal or don't want to admit it, because doing so would cause the whole gambit to unravel.
warlordchad 5y ago
I agree that society is in decline and that TRP has its limits--however, I wanted to drill down on a key point, which is this:
Most men are pathetic and undeserving of women, and many women are either so fat, misshapen, and/or ugly as to be completely undesirable from a mating perspective.
This is why having a society that valued monogamy and marriage and had strictly defined gender roles by and large worked and was extremely stable. It turns out that if people feel like they are valued, they have a partner and a family to care for, and some assurance that their partner won't suddenly abandon them and take their kids because her hamster started spinning, people are generally pretty happy and willing to play by the rules.
Fast forward to today where hypergamy is in full bloom. The reality is that a lot of people in this world are going to be single and discontent, especially given the fantasies we feed them when they are young. Why? Because a lot of women are undesirable, and men gain nothing by mating with or marrying them. As for men, most are simply too lazy and listless and/or unattractive for any woman of value to see them as a suitable mate.
The problem with this scenario is that we can no longer cooperate because the vast majority of people are miserable and too busy pretending they are not to do anything productive, like joining local organizations, creating new innovations, or solving our problems, whether on a local or national level. If you look at most of what passes for blogs or op-eds or commentaries these days--or even a lot of what's on social media--it's people complaining about shit they don't have that they feel they're entitled to.
Furthermore, while capitalism is a great tool for a TRP man, because it gives him means to better himself financially, this too is becoming more difficult as the largest corporations create the rules of commerce by bribing Congress, creating boundaries to entry and effectively locking entrepreneurs out of many markets. This will only get worse as the gap between rich and poor grows. Still, it's the best option we have, even as we slide from a competitive capitalist economy to an oligarchy controlled by Amazon, Kroger, Google, and all the rest of those fucks.
So what can one really do to enjoy life in such a society as a man? Exactly what TRP says: become the kind of man women find desirable, and then fuck as many of them as long as possible until death comes knocking at your door. In the meantime, stay in shape (lift), read books to sharpen your mind, hold frame, and take responsibility for the condition your life is in. Never rely on anyone else other than your closest male friends, because as soon as their interests diverge from yours, they will drop you like a hot turd.
It is an existentialist reality we live in gents--you have no real purpose, and when you're dead, no one's going to give a shit. It's only when you decide what your purpose is that you will see the light and the silver lining of this very strange life we're experiencing.
leotard-princess 5y ago
What history books you been reading as we staggered here under pure luck via plagues, multiple genocides, slave trading, dictatorships - sometimes I think this sub has a rose tinted view of the past. This is the best we have ever had it boys.
ozenmacher 5y ago
Is the "philosophy" of TRP nihilism? Because that reads pretty nihilistic. I am legitimately interested and curious if TRP "philosophy" has been laid out before. If our basic goal (as red pilled men) is to make money, gain status, look attractive, and bang women for pleasure, it seems TRP is a philosophy based on some mix of nihilism and hedonism.
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GL_QUAD 5y ago
Well, he specifically says that...
Within that statement, there is another statement, which, in its core, is pretty darn anti-nihilistic. Don't ya think?
It is just the implementation that suffers... as in, if I wanted to further a cause right now (an artistic endeavor with some greatness/beauty in mind, or some code programmed to make some tiny little aspect of life more enjoyable, etc.), it would be just me, doing a thing on my very own. No other people to join such cause, no helpful collaboration, no pushing each other to new levels, etc. Because they just want consume and get off, hedonistically; most people suck in this regard, and very much so (or maybe, just maybe, I suck as well, since I don't inspire others to partake in something).
Source: used to have an ongoing art project; used to be at it for approx. five years, and I did not enjoy the aspect of doing it isolated, all on my own. Any so called collaborators on that project that floated my way, their skill level, it wasn't even mediocre. Their interest, it fizzled within days. Then, they proceeded to eject from any conversation we had. Huh.
PinkySlayer 5y ago
It's pretty difficult separating the reality of the human experience from many tenets of nihilism. It is an indisputable fact that in the grand scheme of things your life is meaningless, but where that statement and nihilism as a whole diverges is that it's your responsibility to create your own meaning. My opinion is that TRP "philosophy" aligns more with stoicism than it does with nihilism, because the inescapable message of nihilism is that there is no point or higher meaning behind anything, whereas most here would say that there can be meaning but only if you are the one who defines what that meaning is.
Moxiecodone 5y ago
Nihilism annihilated itself when I heard Werner Erhard say,
"It doesn't mean anything that it doesn't mean anything."
mraxelrodi 5y ago
Every atheistic philosophy is nihilistic. Because without superior entity, it's just about enjoying life. I would like to have red pill philosophy be at least positive. Not negative like MGTOW.
PeepingTurtle 5y ago
At least positive? What would be more than least if the least you'd accept is positive?
Whisper 5y ago
+1
questionnmark 5y ago
Pick your battles.
You shouldn't roll over, nor should you martyr yourself for a cause unnecessarily. That's the point, you have to be somewhere in the uncomfortable middle because the brittle assurance of knowing the right answer in all situations is the purview if the idealogue -- you should be better than that.
JellyRev 5y ago
TRP is acknowledging what society actually is and how to potentially maximize oneself in such a society. There is a far larger shared online society of men. A manosphere if you will. Some are alphas, some betas, some bottom of the barrel males. It is the reaction to the far and wide infection of feminism and anti-western culture.
People in sphere want to learn, for a lot the goal is women. and then once one is satisfied with that and one can see how empty that goal of women is, one dwells deeper.
In reality economics, politics, sexual marketplace, fertility, religion, media/social norms etc are all intertwined. They all influence each other.
But this is a place of only one facet. But it is quarantined because reddit high ups seen the connections and these people do not like such a manosphere.
Captain_Save_A_Hoe_ 5y ago
If we wanted to exploit everything around us for our own sake wouldnt that make us capitalists and very mainstream which TRP is not?
Isnt maximizing your own desires called hedonism and isnt that a trait of the last man or subhuman? Isnt TRP against this? Didint Julius Caesar care about his men? What about Jesus Christ and Adolf Hitler? Im sure all of the biggest alpha men in history cared about their fellows a lot.
What are you going to do with all of that extra money when you make a massive surplus? Are you going to invest more so you could make more? Arent you funding the Matrix this way? Isnt this also a meaningless way to live? What happens when the money runs out? Are you going to feel empty? Isnt TRP anal about feeling up even when you think youre down? Dosent this mean TRP is anti material in a sense?
These are all questions we should be asking ourselves.
Captain_Save_A_Hoe_ 5y ago
OP's definition of making it is what got us into this dystopia that we live in today.
ThrowFader 5y ago
The definition of TRP is not "anti-mainstream".
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Thus there can be TRP concepts that are generally agreed upon by those even in mainstream ideology. Also maximizing your desires is not TRP either. TRP is not really a dogma or school of thought so much as it is a toolkit.
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Capitalism is neither good nor bad. It is merely an economic system. I don't care if Im funding the Matrix.
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Enjoy the decline.
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All good question you posed btw, I think deep thought is necessary for awakening.
KeffirLime 5y ago
To help others, one must first be able to help themselves.
Most notably be able to satisfy your biological needs.
When you can adequately take care of your own biological needs, which influence almost everything you do, you can be in a healthy position to assist others.
GodOfDinosaurs 5y ago
I was actually considering making this exact post. TRP is not political. Political action requires activism, solidarity, and sacrificing for a goal greater than yourself. TRP is about none of that; it’s a toolbox for sexual strategy and self improvement. It’s about learning to “enjoy the decline” rather than “change the world”. Changing the world requires generations of sacrifice for people you will never meet. It isn’t that you can’t be “red pilled” and also be an activist, they’re just separate things.
faustian_talos 5y ago
TRP philosophy and skill set is pretty useful but this whole nihilism approach to society is way to selfish and cowardly for me.
Yes we agree that society is in decline.
Yes we know what caused it.
No, I do not agree and accept that we should just find a spot under the Sun with HB9 and enjoy decline.
For me that is anti-patriotic and for cowards. I simply do not accept it.
Then again I accept that my view is biased due to my countries past (I belong to Orthodox Slavic civilization).
Nicolas0631 5y ago
I am not even sure we shall view this as society decline honestly. I see (personally) TRP as a disclosure of how the reality actually work and what possible strategy can be used with great success.
The decline stuff look a bit more like the MGTOW and is a point of view that the current state of affair is bad and that our society is inneficient in its organisation and that it is easy to build a new improved one that will take over eventually.
I don't see any civilization right now that isn't BP at core and most civilization of the past were BP too. Maybe men got different benefits but it isn't new that young men were used as gun meat or as a pawn.
The current trends seems to be that China is going to be the next superpower and it is not possible to be more BP than China. People are capitalist as hell, caring only for their own profit, they are fully corrupted and get they own liberty away in exchange of that. There an internal passport, if you don't behave as a good citizen, you get a bad score and are prevented from taking flights, credit, great schools and other things like that.
Women are in short supply and don't hesitate to treat men as shit. The law may be more in favor of mens, sure, but the society is not. The man has to work endlessly so that his wife can spend the money. Some don't hesistate to change husband for a bit bigger flat or a bit more money.
Captain_Save_A_Hoe_ 5y ago
If ultra-collectivist China is blue pilled then human trafficking liberal USA is red pilled?
Nicolas0631 5y ago
China isn't collectivist. China is more capitalist and selfish than US. This is just that on top, the country is still quite poor and that there no political freedom. And there more human trafficking in China than in US.
In a sence all elite around the world is RP at least partially. Being RP is recognizing that yes in the end you should do what works and use that for your own benefits, rather than what other ask you. You shall see the world as it is and not as the fantazy and propaganda the media and the education system push on you.
The rest of the population tend to be BP, accepting the social norms without much thinking and accepting to play as a pawn in the game without even thinking of playing the hand they are given the most efficiant way possible.
Captain_Save_A_Hoe_ 5y ago
Depends on how you look at it. USA has a lot of laws legalizing and normalizing human trafficking. LGBT+ is one of these methods to normalize and commercialize it. Also it just so happens that USA is the number one destination for migrants all over the world to go. Why didint USA defend Ukraine and why did USA get majority "white" migrants in almost every state, majority Ukrainian for the first time in decades? So you can say USA is behind the nr1 global cause for human trafficking.
odin1111 5y ago
actually there is a h u g e epidemic of child kidnappings by beggars, they are being used to help them beg for more money. there aren't that many stats on that because. .. .China, but from chinese websites that have parents reporting missing children. . .those numbers along vastly outnumber trafficking in every other country on the planet.
Captain_Save_A_Hoe_ 5y ago
If China is selfish why is basically most of their population giving away their time, health and wages for a greater cause such as world domination by selling anime and luxury products to the rest of the world so they could all go down in population while China does not.
278209AR948Q 5y ago
I've never really thought of TRP as a philosophy. I see it as a box with many ideas. Some oppose each other, some are very dark (dark triad), some are for X, some are for Y.
You have a problem, you look inside the box and find a heuristic to make your own after trying a few.
TRP is a step into breaking one's chains. An awakening.
Once you are awakened, you look for other aspects in life in which you start to realize you have been imprisoned.
Awakening from one level doesn't mean enlightenment stops there. There are many levels and steps to climb.
The reason why we talk about other aspects than intersexual dynamics is because the way we structure our brains after finding out the truth about them is useful to break free from other chains.
Politics come into play here because politics has added intersexual dynamics in them.
Focusing on the macro will get us nowhere in my opinion. The way I'm changin the world is by changing myself and helping those around me. Creating a tribe, a community in real life. Unplugging young friends, being their support and mentor when they need me.
This is my interpretation of the matter, and what I do with my TRP knowledge (I also benefit personally in social settings, work and in relationships).
Each person here is anon and unique. What unites us is that, at some point in our lives, we share our journey. Our goals, ibjectives and beliefs are all different. Some want to change the world, others want to sway elections, others want to gain maximum benefit in every situation. Nobody owes anybody else anything.
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