TL:DR - Learning requires failure and correction. Adopt the correct role as the student and the appropriate attitude. If you don't, the teacher will likely stop caring if you pass the class and succeed.
A couple of times recently I've had responses to correcting people that were the equivalent of whining "why are you being mean to me?" or plain bitching for me correcting them instead of someone who was stupider/newer to TRP. This is beta behaviour which irritates me the most. Partly because I'm fucked off with myself for misjudging that person as deserving of my help, but also because they're adopting completely the wrong attitude if they want to learn and improve. While they're partly learning and improving from reading things, the way to improve best/fastest is to have someone tell you specifically where you are wrong and correct you. You should be embracing this.
I'm selective about who I reply to. There's a huge number of guys on TRP making comments. I don't correct guys on here for the sake of my ego. When you can play asshole game well enough, you're basically insulting women with a big grin on your face and then watching as she desperately tries to justify to you why she should be allowed to suck you off. That's a giant ego booster. Knowing I can do that is enough for me. I don't need to attempt online AMOGing to feel good about myself. I don't intend to speak for the other ECs and how they go about their posting. But from my PoV, my replies on TRP vary from joking and idle chatter, to explanations and corrections in attitude and understanding. The only thing I expect from someone I'm giving knowledge/advice/explanations to for free, is that they appreciate it/show some respect. If I'm replying to you to correct you, it's probably because I've seen your comments before and think you're saying good things. This demonstrates your potential and so I'm happy to correct you because I want to help you achieve that potential.
My own story is literally how I took on that role. I got involved and tried to surround myself with knowledgeable men who were around when I tried to put forward my understanding. From this, I was corrected many MANY times. I was literally putting myself in a position of being the intellectual bitch amongst the crowd. I embraced this wholeheartedly. I appreciated, and still do appreciate, that better men than me were willing to offer their knowledge and advice to me for free, simply because they saw potential in me. Potential and eagerness to be better. If you are here to learn and become a better man, this is the way to do it. I've posted before on debating and discussion as a man. The essence of this draws from my time as a competitive debater and the useful skill that has allowed me to seek out truth in the most efficient manner. This is how you grow intellectually. For those who want to learn but aren't willing to do this because you need to protect your ego, I've got a couple of things to say to you.
Firstly, if you think you know it all, why are you not a mod or part of the vanguard? Pro-tip: it's because you don't know it all. Secondly, I've said before that adopting an attitude where you think you know it all is not conducive to continual self-betterment. To reapply Hemingway's classic quote: "We are all apprentices in a craft where no one ever becomes a master." Once you become alpha, you can still learn from your peers. Why? Because even equals can teach each other. It's only inferiors who can't teach superiors much (if anything.)
The beta brat will think he knows better. He'll dismiss everything out of hand which is said directly to him. He will argue in a manner of "but this shows you're wrong" instead of asking for an explanation of a situation that doesn't seem to fit. He'll only learn from reading other things independent of his own thoughts and then try to force his thoughts around them. He doesn't respond with questions to ask for more guidance. How are we supposed to deal with such stubborn fools?
One of the guys I've learnt a lot from and respect, /u/HumanSockPuppet recently declared in no uncertain terms that ECs should actively pull rank on newer members. I agree and disagree with this. I think if we had a more rigid structure where people were actively shamed when they tried to do stupid shit, then pulling rank might work (for example putting in a negative points system to publically shame the guys with the wrong attitude towards self improvement.) Even if we remember what the goal of the sub is, pulling rank will simply drag these guys back into class and make them sit.
Personally however, I don't want those little fucking bitches in my class. I can't force them to learn, so why force them to sit? I've openly told guys that in creating leaders, we want you to be able to take control and sort yourselves out - and one of those things about taking control is in deciding who you want to be educated by on here. You are not required or obligated to be here. None of us are. You are also not required or obligated to attend the class of any specific EC, Vanguard or Mod. There's plenty of good options, so if you don't like one, go find another. In the same way, I do not require any particular student in my class. (I know that this is a good reason why /u/HumanSockPuppet explained that pulling rank should work.) However I actively do not want any student who needs me to pull rank on them. My time is limited and I'm going to spend it as wisely as I can. So if your attitude when I offer my help or reply to a PM to correct your mistakes is to bitch/whine/complain or argue... then you might notice I won't bother responding to you or trying to help you in the future. As the student it's your loss, not mine, when the teacher no longer gives a shit if you learn. I don't have the time or patience to tell a student that they should shut up and learn. Ultimately, if you fail to pass the class so-to-speak, it's not my problem. You're the one who will suffer the consequences. Not me.
This is my rant/solution to this beta bitch behaviour of so-called men who can't embrace their own intellectual failures on their Red Pill journey. To point out the best attitude to adopt. Being told you're wrong is not a bad thing. Kill your fucking ego on here and embrace your own failings. You've already accepted that you failed to work out enough and agreed to go lift. You accepted that you failed to learn to fish properly because you asked a fish instead of a fisherman and now you're reading what the fisherman has to say. Why can't you accept that you're going to fuck up along the way? Be thankful that any knowledgeable man was willing to help you correct your course for free. The success and associated satisfaction of getting it right will come in time, don't worry about that. But for the here and now while you're learning: success is a lousy teacher.
APookIsAPook 8y ago
The same mentality can be applied to competition. The old saying goes, "To win is to teach, to lose is to learn.", and it's an essential mindset to have if you want to improve in any sort of competitive activity.
HumanSockPuppet 8y ago
Here's the problem I'm seeing: a lot of new comers don't understand that there is a time to project strength, and there is a time to remain silent and learn. They think they need to AMOG every man in every room at every chance they get in order to "be the alfa-est" (/u/Whisper and I spoke about this at length during a long drive, and this conversation was the basis for his excellent post on Gronk!).
Here's how it REALLY works:
This is why I believe that the mods created the flair badges. It's a way of saying "Listen to this guy. We can confirm that he knows what he's talking about." Since the internet is not a physical space and we can't directly observe body language, tone of voice, or apparent authority, we have to rely on a little PNG image file to tell us.
Now, that's not to say that the un-badged don't have anything useful to say. I've seen a lot of unflaired guys drop some seriously insightful truth bombs, and I have every confidence that they will be recognized and flaired in due time (that's what the points are for). But in order to protect TRP from turning into a contest of bravado, all users need to observe the unspoken rules of the sub, and they can only do that by listening before speaking.
The Red Pill is a men's club going on three years now. We have a large (and growing) user base, and ideological enemies that outnumber us 10,000 to 1. We won't make any progress in turning the tide of western culture's war against men if we fight amongst ourselves. Remember, this isn't a fight for civilization - this is a fight for our happiness.
To the veterans: please keep on helping your brothers to their feet. You know this, and you're doing this. Thank you.
To the battle-tested: You're coming into your own. Lend a hand where you can, and defer to a higher authority if you think you're not ready. You're the critical bridge between the outnumbered veterans and the masses of fresh refugees arriving every day.
To the newcomers: there is no shame in deferring to a male authority. Your fathers should have taught you this. But society has failed you. You don't need to overcompensate for the qualities that society robbed you of - not here. This is your safe space, and you are among allies.
RedPharaohRising 8y ago
What's the difference between Vanguard and ECs? Is that a rank difference, so to speak?
EpicLevelCheater 8y ago
I will be writing a policy post on this subject in a few days. The subject needs discussion in the community.
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BramRhodesDouglas 8y ago
Dude I wanna meet EC's in real life. It'd be a blast and you know it.
Overkillengine 8y ago
Thanks to SJW's gleefully engaging in social assassination tactics and worse; most if not all participants here are better off staying anonymous.
You can often gauge just how afraid those in power are of something by how much sanction and violence they are willing to engage in (even by proxy) to try to silence it.
NightwingTRP 8y ago
This is pretty much the reality. Some men are in a position to put their head above the parapet. I appreciate those men and what they do, but unfortunately, due to my own circumstances I can't be one of them. I sense this is a similar situation to most of the ECs, mods and vanguard.
[deleted] 8y ago
There are books that I've read 10+ times in my life, and I still find new insights in them because of things that have changed in my life since the last time I read it. Super new to this sub, but I've been reading voraciously ever since. I'll try things out, ask questions, and review material to see if I've had any new experiences that need to be run through the Red Lens™. Been digging my time here so far, lot of raw undiluted wisdom, very little coddling. Just the way I like it.
amit240 8y ago
What do you mean when you say project strength to females?
supernerd1445 8y ago
He means be the leader. Decide what you are going to do together, lead the conversation and do not be afraid to check her.
[deleted] 8y ago
Check your ego, biggest advice in there.
My best TRP gains were when I laid it out, warts and all. I got shit on hard. Then I fixed things.
you see it every couple weeks on MRP. some guy victim pukes, gets dogpiled on his hamster. The good ones accept it, take the advice, and move forward, the bad ones delete their account, call people assholes, and go back to BB life.
[deleted] 8y ago
I've lost count of the times I've been asked something or I pm'd someone and have it become immediately apparent they've not read the side bar.
To the general user of TRP if you've not read the side bar you're exterminating my and others' will to bother with you.
The idea that you've not read things like the rational male back to back is as you turning down downloading kung fu into your brain ala the matrix.
Temptationn 8y ago
I picked this up from my grandpaw no matter what people tell us we have to be right I actually hate it, I know I'm wrong but my mind just won't let me admit it. I'm still working on this but overall great post!
[deleted] 8y ago
When I used to take Jiu Jitsu, my teacher told me "If someone is better than you, why not learn from them?" I will carry that with me for the rest of my life. No point in re-inventing the wheel entirely until you have a good grasp of the subject.
I appreciate that you are trying to help people but you have to understand it is human nature to defend themselves and shift the blame.
NO ONE wants to be blamed for failure. There's an old saying that to succeed in something it requires SKILL, EFFORT, and a bit of LUCK. When people fail they will tend to say they didn't try hard enough or it was just bad luck; or they will blame external sources.
NightwingTRP 8y ago
I understand it. It's natural. It's actively useful in the field.
But it can also be controlled. TRP is about taking responsibility. Owning your fuck ups and not shifting the blame even when it is natural to do so. Therefore that defence mechanism has no place on the sub.
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