This is why I OMAD every day. To buck the trend. (One Meal A Day) and lifting with cardio makes my Dad bod the REAL hot body. For myself, as well as the ladies...but always for myself first!
I'm starting to understand why TRP guys in US keep blasting about lifting and staying fit while I never quite understood it. Being fit never gave me a significant or maybe even notable advantage.
It's because it is becoming somewhat rare to be in shape in US so it is valued a lot more. If you are under 40 year old, being fit in certain developed countries is quite normal.
Yeah, I also figured this out when I got fit and I didn't experience the life-changing benefits I read about online. The anecdotes you see online are mostly Americans who went from obese to fit. For other parts of the world it won't be THAT big of a deal to become fit, as most people are within reasonable BMI range.
While i do agree with the majority here that there are a lot of other benefits to lifting like making you fell better, raising your seratonin and other fell good hormones (some argue that exercise is the best drug you can take), I understand where you are getting at. I am from Eastern Europe and i can say that out of the 5-6 (male) friends i see most frequently every single one of us is better off then Todd from the article. I believe that it has to do a lot with the fact that the majority of people here get exposed to nature and physical work in one way or another during their childhood which then shifts the mindset. Yes most our group either has been or some still are hardcore gamers, the type of guy to go for an 8 hour gaming session but still we all love to go out, some to go lift, some like me to go an play a sport and so on.
Now i know this might offend some people but this is just my experience. A month ago i was at an event where a lot of foreigners visited our country and while we were talking about them we made a joke that almost everyone from western Europe looked either to skinny or a neckbeard, not a single one was in shape.
Yes, there is a legend that eastern european people tend to be slimmer than in other european countries but if you google average BMI, there is hardly any difference to many european countries. It would interesting to see average BMI per country per age group. It may be that the older people in europe tend to be significantly overweight (comparable to US counterparts) but younger (18-40 or something) tend to be smiller especially in eastern europe.
Also please note that the BMIs of different "Todds" is based on 10 year or older information. People have gotten fatter everywhere since then.
Red pillers are obsessed with lifting because it's a simple and relatively foolproof way to feel better about yourself and potentially raise your SMV, without having any significant downside.
But as far as attracting women who would otherwise find you unattractive, nah it doesn't work that way. If it did, every guy would be lifting and no one would quit and the bar for impressive level of fitness would just be higher.
Lifting will get you laid easily, it's just not easy to be consistent enough to get results. Bluepill guys think that what's inside counts so they never stop to think am I unattractive?
Lifting is essential in being the best version of yourself. It not only improves physique but also your general health and mental clarity alongside mood. It's also a great opportunity to socialize.
Lifting is certainly hard work and the principles that you need to live by in order to achieve an attractive body can be applied to everything else in life. Just don't juice.
Sometimes you help someout out, you give a spot or give/take advice, it doesn't happen often or all the time but if you spend 4 times a week there you'll be sure to end up with some interaction sooner or later even if its not your intent.
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I had this one dude who I pretty much knew better than most of my other friends and after a year I still didn't know what the fuck his name was.
This. Once I started a few years ago I couldn't really see myself without it, it is what I call a "building block" to your best self, as in not something that should be the entire picture, but should sure as hell be a part of it.
It definitely increases SMV. There is no question. You very well might have attracted someone that wouldn't be attracted to you otherwise. This doesn't make it a magic pill but it might in some cases.
Sure, but the question is by how much your SMV will increase, what will that increase get you, and what was the cost you had to bear. Like would five years of lifting be worth it to go from the bottom 5% of girls being open to hooking up with you to having a shot with the bottom 20% and that being the upper limit of what your best-case physique could get you?
The grand total of female interest I got in just over 15 years of lifting was one girl putting her hand on my bicep for half a second, I still remember it after 10 years. I'm getting on in years and I'm not at my best physically, but even in my best shape it just didn't affect anything except for guys complimenting me and wanting to talk about lifting all the time.
More importantly, over the years I've known a lot of guys with impressive physiques that didn't translate to impressive results. And I've seen hundreds of guys at every level of fitness quit after they realized the implied promise of easy pussy was a lie. No one would quit lifting if it were really that effective for increasing SMV. What happens is they go in hard, all optimistic and psyched but then next year at the beach it's pretty much the same as it ever was, except they can no longer eat and drink whatever they want and they grind their teeth down from seeing guys smaller/weaker than them with hot girls. Okay I can't read their minds, that last part was just me.
I get so triggered over this because I fell for the lifting meme and got jack.
Think of flirting like a road test. The fitter you are the better condition your car. In the end, if you don't know how to drive, you'll still fail but the better the car, the easier it'll be. Fat and sloppy people can still get women the same way you can still drive with overinflated tires and cracked windshield but it doesn't make it any easier. There's physical fitness and mental fitness. Don't neglect your mind.
A woman either likes your face or not. If she doesn't, your body will not help you with her.
If you're ugly and 99% of women don't like your face, then your body will not help you with 99% of women... so no, it won't be easier. It'll be easier with that 1% of women you have a shot with, if you can find any of them.
You remind me of the mentally handicapped dude at the gym that comes in every day, stands by the pull up machine, watches tv and nods his head for twenty minutes and leaves. I assume he’s there because someone once told him that if he wants a girlfriend he should go to the gym...
To be honest, my body probably peaked after 5 years of lifting and it's been on a gradual decline ever since.
And I've lived in big cities for the most part. I could walk past a hundred women on the street and not have even one give me eye contact. Cashiers act like automatons (no small talk, ever!), and girls I approached were always polite but very obviously not interested. The few dates I got from OkCupid, they would just slump when they'd meet me in person and suddenly they'd have a cold or a class early in the morning or some kind of unplanned issue and that's why we wouldn't go for cocktails but rather a quick coffee and then I'd never see them again.
Anyway, I think if your face (or height or whatever) is a deal breaker for a woman, then your body doesn't even enter the equation. That fits my experience and observations.
I don't think it is about your face or height, but about your personality and neediness. Sorry to tell you this, but being goodlooking isn't enough, especially so with more attractive women. Some fatty can fuck you no matter what if you are hot enough, just because she lack validation. But hotter women choose whom to fuck based on multiple qualities. If you act like a pussy who put women above himself, who make all efforts to be liked by them - then you will fail in most cases. Red Pill isn't only about your looks. Don't treat pussy like a prize.
I'd like to see one of those studies that says that face, height and status are only 30% of a man's perceived SMV. Because if 70% of your SMV depended on your body composition, who wouldn't go to the gym? Who'd ever quit?
The question is not whether being fit is good or not, but whether it's worth it in terms of attracting women. And there's no correct answer. If for example lifting for 2 years to become fit increases your attractiveness by 50%, the cost/benefit will be completely different for a guy who started off attractive to 1% of women and a guy who was attractive to 30% of women. What I'm saying is if you're the former type, it may not be worth it and you should be made aware.
I think you put too much value on getting women. Some of us just don't give a fuck, honestly. We've watched them fuck our friends enough times in horrible ways to know the forbidden fruit ain't worth it.
Ever saw a roided gym guy being single or dating a fat lady or a girl over 30? going to the gym is **incredibly hard** I'm not talking about going once a week. I'm talking of consistently doing 1 hr of gym or more every day, and carefully regulating your food, for the rest of your life. And even then you won't even reach the body of a Hollywood star like Jason Statham or Hugh Jackman (they go 3+ hs a day to the gym and are on steroids) but you will be close. It's a HUGE sacrifice.
Yes, I've seen and met a few of both types over the 15 years I've been lifting. Obviously it's a group subject to strong sampling bias in that those who don't see much benefit to lifting usually won't keep at it, but there are always a few die-hards. I was never on gear but at my peak fitness people assumed that I was and... well, I saw a dateless gym rat every time I looked in the mirror.
So, about those dozens of articles and studies...
Edit after your edit: I don't think putting in an hour a day is a huge sacrifice if there's a benefit to it. And to have a better body than 95% of your age group, it's enough to put in 4-5 hours a week with good nutrition. If you're in your 20s and younger, you don't even have to sacrifice stuff like booze and sweets. And yet... almost everybody gives up.
>I saw a dateless gym rat every time I looked in the mirror.
Well there is a problem with you because I was a skinny-fat balding old bastard for years and never was dateless.
What I know from experience is that is not that going to the gym and having a good body attracts women. Women are attracted to dangerous guys, guys that can fuck up other guys. That's why they go to fat gangsters too. Its not the muscles, it's the danger that comes with them. Maybe you weren't dangerous enough.
Sigh. Look, we get it. There’s some percent of the male population that’s really fucking ugly and lifting won’t help much.
But, for the vast majority of people it makes a real difference in SMV.
The reason lots of guys don’t do it is because they’re lazy. They also would rather play video games than work their ass off and get rich. Even though they’d love to be rich.
Look, we get it. There’s some percent of the male population that’s really fucking ugly and lifting won’t help much.
But, for the vast majority of people it makes a real difference in SMV.
Good, we're making progress. It's that minority of men that I'm trying to warn. As to how many of them are, that is also important, especially if those percentages are changing in one direction or other.
As for believing men most men are too lazy to put 4-5 hours a week in lifting (and some self-control in nutrition) that supposedly has such a dramatic effect on SMV, that's lazy thinking on your part that allows you to dismiss doubts and go on believing what you want to believe.
If that's the minority of men you want to warn, then mention it. The reason why alot of people in this sub mention lifting is because it does work for us who have done it.
Plus to add to this, this is a sub for sexual strategy. We wanna get laid here and upvote the best working advice. We want to evolve into something better to get laid. Then you come in with your "nah it doesn't work" and try to stop everyone who reads your comment from bettering themselves, by denying it with an anecdotal story.
I get it. We all get it. You lifted and muscles didn't change your ugly face. But you are walking a very fine line of incel, in a sub for getting laid. People like you get reported and banned. That's why you're getting downvoted too.
Now everything that I mentioned is just fact. If you want to talk opinion, then what I think is that everyone should lift because you don't know what you'll find once you've lifted seriously for a year or two. For me and a best friend of mine, we went from beta's with flobby child faces, to a hard defined face with a muscular phsyique. Yes the gym did change my face as well. And another opinion from me, is that you're "advice" to give up will stop the ENTIRETY of men who read your comment from lifting and finding out the man on the other side of lifting.
Finally, believing that not everybody lifts because if it worked everyone would do is the most lazy thinking I've ever seen anyone do. Again, a broad sweeping statement like "everyone EVERYONE thinks this way" and just wrong as well. People don't lift for a variety of reasons, the most common that in my opinion I've heard are "too busy", and "not enough time", "I don't know what to do", "I feel weird/scared/worried going alone", "I don't have money for membership/trainer/food/supplements", to "I have health problems" to "I have better things to do" which could range from children or a sick family member or debts in which they need to work longer hours.
Getting laid via muscle, or even getting laid, isn't everyone's priority so that's why not everyone does it. But the majority of people here in this sub, getting laid is a priority so that's why we lift and it works for alot of us. Don't go stopping people from reaching their potential because your potential ran out.
Agreed man. I personally lift but I had a buddy who refused to lift when someone offered him a free pizza to go. Most people are lazy and ashamed of how weak they are, like my friend was. And that's in high school so I don't know how bad it gets when everyone has jobs and families.
If that's the minority of men you want to warn, then mention it.
I thought I did:
If for example lifting for 2 years to become fit increases your attractiveness by 50%, the cost/benefit will be completely different for a guy who started off attractive to 1% of women and a guy who was attractive to 30% of women. What I'm saying is if you're the former type, it may not be worth it and you should be made aware.
And besides, if this is a sub for helping men getting laid, who needs the most help? The guys who can already get laid or those who can't?
Plus to add to this, this is a sub for sexual strategy.
Is there only one sexual strategy for every man? Whether you're ugly and 5'4" or a good looking 6'4", the only one-size-fits-all strategy is "just lift bro"? That kind of advice is letting down the men who need help the most, and if they find out the magic bullet strategy doesn't work for them, what then? Does this sub have any contingencies for that case other than "sucks to be you, now shut up or get banned"?
And it's not even that I'm saying that men shouldn't lift. Women are the only ones who get the vote on what is an attractive man (as far as straight men go anyway) and some things you just can't know for sure until you try. It's just that lifting will not be effective for some men (how many is debatable) and they should be aware of this going in.
"But as far as attracting women who would otherwise find you unattractive, nah it doesn't work that way."
No, you didn't. See that^ you completely mentioned that lifting doesn't work at all in a broad sweeping statement on your first comment. You really think everyone is gonna read the entire comment chain, as most of your comments are downvoted to hell and not even showing anymore? So yeah, you did mention it was only for that minority of men, AFTER you did the damage and only after you were called out on it, and only on one of the other comments down the chain that was completely downvoted and closed out.
"And besides, if this is a sub for helping men getting laid, who needs the most help? The guys who can already get laid or those who can't?"
Your question is irrelevant to what I said. I'm not budging from the argument and going down the road you want me to. You are wrong when you said lifting doesn't work that way, and it won't attract women who would otherwise find people attractive. That is a huge broad statement, and finding only one person who it did work for, makes you wrong. I can be that one person because it worked for me, and it worked for a friend of mine. Quit stopping other people's progress with broad sweeping statements. That's what everyone's downvoting you for.
Now if you can behave and quit your shit, then we can talk about the other stuff. No there isn't just one sexual strategy for every man. No, the only one-size-fits-all-strategy here isn't "just lift bro". Read more trp, we emphasize game and money too. We don't EVER claim to have a magic bullet, we merely talk about sexual strategy and what works. Everyone has their story, everyone tells their story, everyone talks about how what worked for them, and people add other tips to help each other out. As for this sub having any contingencies, we don't have contingencies we don't need one. We have a diverse toolkit that everyone adds to.
It's clear you're not reading any of the sidebar which is necessary, and grounds to be banned. So no, you're not being banned because "sux 2b u, enjoy ur ban" it's because you're not doing anything right, and you haven't spent enough time here reading to even be trying to add to the conversation. In fact, you're conversation isn't adding anything either, it's just removing advice.
We've heard your story before. When the incels sub shut down, they all came here and were saying the exact same things. Yes we banned alot of them, you know why? Not because it was a contingency, but because they didn't shut the fuck up and read the sidebar or follow the rules or add anything of value.
Yeah I get that you aren't saying men shouldn't lift, but you made a broad sweeping hopeless statement that lifting doesn't work. You're right, women do vote on what is attractive and searching any statistical study will show that women prefer men who are muscular looking, or men with physical strength. And finally, you're right lifting will not effective for some men. Again, that's is why we also advocate money and game.
Again, it's clear you don't read this sub alot and this is why you will be banned if you don't quit your shit. I have nothing against you at all, I don't care either way if you get banned, I'm just stating the facts. Read the sub, read the sidebar, and quit detracting.
Finally, as a sign that I'm not being an asshole, I'll give you my story. Lifting took a long time for me. I've been doing it for 5 years and I only feel that I just reached a point where I finally look good or muscular. But that wasn't all that helped me get laid. What really helped me as well, was game and money. I began working on game because I was so scrawny, couldn't grow a beard, and I knew lifting would take forever. I didn't want to lift, it was fucking boring and hard and the discipline needed to do it with actual proper diet was too much for my lazy ass. Just like alot of other men that you don't believe have the same thought process as me, we are lazy. So I worked on game. Game was a hit or miss for me at first, but as I sharpened my game, I worked on my money. I learned, like a recent post here said that you probably didn't read, that women are bored and want to feel something anything. I used my game to hook women, I used money to keep them by taking them out to places they had never been before. I used game to push/pull and make them feel wanted and then ignored and then beautiful and then invisible. I planned dates with 3 different places we could go to jumping around town and women loved it, the sense of adventure. All this while lifting and slowly building muscle. I used to need alot of game to get this done, but with muscle, I need less game and less money to get women.
So again, if you think we are running around shouting lifting as the ONLY thing, you're delusional. Also clearly hurt from it not working for you. We don't care, you haven't read the sidebar and you haven't been reading the posts people make here. We've said it so many times, we even used the phrase "magic bullet" to emphasize that we don't do that. We don't have one, we have a diverse toolkit that everyone adds to.
"But as far as attracting women who would otherwise find you unattractive, nah it doesn't work that way."
No, you didn't. See that^ you completely mentioned that lifting doesn't work at all in a broad sweeping statement on your first comment.
But you're not reading what I wrote. I didn't word it that way by accident. If a woman finds you unattractive without muscles, she won't find you attractive with muscles. If your face or height or race are repulsive to women, your body doesn't matter. No one is a virgin because they don't have enough muscle.
As for this sub having any contingencies, we don't have contingencies we don't need one. We have a diverse toolkit that everyone adds to.
It's clear you're not reading any of the sidebar which is necessary, and grounds to be banned.
I was not commenting on what's in the sidebar but what's in the posts. In posts I see a lot more emphasis on lifting than I think is warranted and I just happen to know from long experience (not just mine but hundreds of guys I've known personally over the years) that muscles will not make you attractive to women who would find you unattractive without the muscles. So when some incel or whoever comes here and gets told to invest years into something I know is very unlikely to change their situation, I want to warn them. Time is the most precious resource and there's only so much things one can focus on. Focusing on lifting is a bad move for some men and it's them I'm talking to.
Finally, as a sign that I'm not being an asshole, I'll give you my story.
I've already read your post history. Reading is not a problem, sidebar included. I'm ugly, not dyslexic. And as for the sidebar, let's not pretend TRP is breaking some radically new ground. It's yet another evolution of the seduction community and nothing in the sidebar was new to me even the first time I read it years ago. And I don't particularly disagree with almost any of it. It's the content of the posts that I'm reacting to.
So to summarize your experience, you were learning and applying game and you used money to get girls. At the same time you were lifting, but didn't even look like you lifted. So why would you whiteknight so hard for lifting when according to you it only had a minor effect on your success if any? Maybe it's your ever improving game that lets you pull higher quality girls, not your body? Maybe a sample size of 10-20-however many girls is just not high enough for you to be able to tell?
My story: in late 2003 I was just an average guy, not fat no skinny. I went on a cut until spring 2004, ending up very lean. Then I lifted so hard I still have stretch marks from it 15 years later. By summer 2005 I had guys complimenting me and wanting to talk about lifting all the time and sometimes random guys on the street asking me to recommend a gym. Women however were treating me exactly the same as before. I was walking around the same streets, campuses, malls, nightclubs... no change in their reactions whatsoever. Those I approached were polite but uninterested, exactly the same as before. I felt scammed by the implied promise of easy pussy turning out to be a lie. Over the years since, I figured out it's not uncommon for other guys too - muscles just don't have that effect on women. All things being equal, sure they'd prefer muscles (although not so much for The Rock to be cast as a romantic lead like ever), but things are never equal. The most equal they can get is what happened to me, average in early 2004, jacked in summer 2005, no effect on women.
Now imagine that had happened to you, and then you see guys on TRP being told to do what you did. Wouldn't you feel obligated to chime in with your experience?
Finally, you keep mentioning I'm getting downvoted or whatever, like it matters. If guys who talk about some TRP strategies not working for them get banned, of course you're going to be left with a community that believes all strategies are spot on and that my experience is invalid. That doesn't make them right and it doesn't make me wrong.
Trust me, that also means slimmer pickings of the women as well. It's a chubby chasers dream in the US. I remember firing up Tinder in the Netherlands once and the difference was insane. Ran out of swipes and only saw like two chubby girls while in the US id see a landwhale on every other swipe.
I'm actually from NZ, but we have a similar obesity problem here. Guys my age I see are typically skinny or fat (usually skinny fat), but very very rarely fit.
I've been to NZ a couple of times. It's not nearly in as bad of shape as the US. In fact it's far more fit overall with healthy food portions and less readily available fast food, and people are generally much more active than your average American is today. I'd say it's like what the UK used to be like 20-25 years ago before it too got fat.
Americans are quite active already, the real problem is the obesigenic foods the government is pushing on the population. The US government also subsidizes such foods. A lot of this is unfortunately done with malicious of foresight against the US population as there's some unholy axis between agricultural corporations and pharmaceuticals to farm the population with symptomatic treatments that never treat root causation.
There's also been a massive proliferation of pseudo scientific nutritional information to mask these effects, concepts like a calorie is a calorie or even CICO are outright fraud and not substantiated in the literature.
The general idea behind "calories in calories out" or "a calorie is a calorie" is that if you eat 2000 calories a day and burn 2000 calories a day you will stay the same weight. The problem with this is that calories in influence calories out. Humans are a biology problem, not a physics problem.
2000 calories of cheap carbs such as processed grains and sugars will spike your insulin and set your body up to store fat. Insulin also hinders burning body fat for energy, so you'll get hungry more and/or your body will down regulate your metabolism. So now you're still eating 2000 calories a day, but you're only burning 1800. Or you're hungrier and burning 2000 calories a day, but now you're eating 2300.
2000 calories of fat won't spike your insulin, and you'll be able to access body fat for energy as needed. No need to down regulate your metabolism because your body can't access its energy stores.
And then there's the fact that your body will also down regulate your metabolism if you're in a calorie deficit on a high carb diet, since insulin keeps you from accessing your fat stores. This is why those people on the biggest loser have such a hard time keeping the weight off. If you're sufficiently low carb, your body can just get the extra energy from body fat and so it won't down regulate your metabolism.
Obviously there's more to it than that, but that's the 35,000 foot view.
Right, yeah. I’m a 6’1 290ish former football player, and I have a good bit of muscle on me. I’m probably 25-30% bf.
I don’t look bad, as I’m still probably in the top 30-50% depending on what a girl likes. Whereas if I were 290lbs of higher bf%, I’d look like shit and likely be in the bottom 10%
With that said, there’s zero doubt I’d look 10x better as a 6’1 230 lb 15-20% bf man.
So the SMV spike at 30 is not cause you lifted and you hit 30 but also hugely cause your competition nosedived compared to 20 where most guys have metabolism to be lean?
bemore_ 4y ago
When I don't lift I get depressed and can't get out of bed
volk1970 4y ago
This is why I OMAD every day. To buck the trend. (One Meal A Day) and lifting with cardio makes my Dad bod the REAL hot body. For myself, as well as the ladies...but always for myself first!
RedPilledGodEmperor 4y ago
Wow. The average male really is pathetic.
Scorsone 4y ago
Interesting take but it has always been like this. Men in the past weren’t much different from Todd in terms of physicality and all that goes with it.
Personally, I think of lifting as something that you should do because after all what’s the alternative?
Zech4riah 4y ago
I'm starting to understand why TRP guys in US keep blasting about lifting and staying fit while I never quite understood it. Being fit never gave me a significant or maybe even notable advantage.
It's because it is becoming somewhat rare to be in shape in US so it is valued a lot more. If you are under 40 year old, being fit in certain developed countries is quite normal.
majani 4y ago
Yeah, I also figured this out when I got fit and I didn't experience the life-changing benefits I read about online. The anecdotes you see online are mostly Americans who went from obese to fit. For other parts of the world it won't be THAT big of a deal to become fit, as most people are within reasonable BMI range.
555WeWolf 4y ago
While i do agree with the majority here that there are a lot of other benefits to lifting like making you fell better, raising your seratonin and other fell good hormones (some argue that exercise is the best drug you can take), I understand where you are getting at. I am from Eastern Europe and i can say that out of the 5-6 (male) friends i see most frequently every single one of us is better off then Todd from the article. I believe that it has to do a lot with the fact that the majority of people here get exposed to nature and physical work in one way or another during their childhood which then shifts the mindset. Yes most our group either has been or some still are hardcore gamers, the type of guy to go for an 8 hour gaming session but still we all love to go out, some to go lift, some like me to go an play a sport and so on.
Now i know this might offend some people but this is just my experience. A month ago i was at an event where a lot of foreigners visited our country and while we were talking about them we made a joke that almost everyone from western Europe looked either to skinny or a neckbeard, not a single one was in shape.
Zech4riah 4y ago
Yes, there is a legend that eastern european people tend to be slimmer than in other european countries but if you google average BMI, there is hardly any difference to many european countries. It would interesting to see average BMI per country per age group. It may be that the older people in europe tend to be significantly overweight (comparable to US counterparts) but younger (18-40 or something) tend to be smiller especially in eastern europe.
Also please note that the BMIs of different "Todds" is based on 10 year or older information. People have gotten fatter everywhere since then.
Angry_runt 4y ago
Red pillers are obsessed with lifting because it's a simple and relatively foolproof way to feel better about yourself and potentially raise your SMV, without having any significant downside. But as far as attracting women who would otherwise find you unattractive, nah it doesn't work that way. If it did, every guy would be lifting and no one would quit and the bar for impressive level of fitness would just be higher.
Zech4riah 4y ago
Well said. And yes, I was talking from the point of attracting women.
xdrunkagainx 4y ago
Lifting will get you laid easily, it's just not easy to be consistent enough to get results. Bluepill guys think that what's inside counts so they never stop to think am I unattractive?
Cryptoguru777 4y ago
Lifting is essential in being the best version of yourself. It not only improves physique but also your general health and mental clarity alongside mood. It's also a great opportunity to socialize.
Lifting is certainly hard work and the principles that you need to live by in order to achieve an attractive body can be applied to everything else in life. Just don't juice.
[deleted] 4y ago
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Cryptoguru777 4y ago
Sometimes you help someout out, you give a spot or give/take advice, it doesn't happen often or all the time but if you spend 4 times a week there you'll be sure to end up with some interaction sooner or later even if its not your intent.
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I had this one dude who I pretty much knew better than most of my other friends and after a year I still didn't know what the fuck his name was.
[deleted]
Zech4riah 4y ago
I can identify with this :D
Symph1337 4y ago
This. Once I started a few years ago I couldn't really see myself without it, it is what I call a "building block" to your best self, as in not something that should be the entire picture, but should sure as hell be a part of it.
fuckGuilt 4y ago
Barbell training as medicine.
Angry_runt 4y ago
But it won't attract women who'd otherwise find you unattractive. No one is a virgin because they don't have enough muscles.
I believe it's only fair to warn people (specifically men who are getting nothing) rather than just push lifting as this panacea of sexual success.
Cryptoguru777 4y ago
It definitely increases SMV. There is no question. You very well might have attracted someone that wouldn't be attracted to you otherwise. This doesn't make it a magic pill but it might in some cases.
Angry_runt 4y ago
Sure, but the question is by how much your SMV will increase, what will that increase get you, and what was the cost you had to bear. Like would five years of lifting be worth it to go from the bottom 5% of girls being open to hooking up with you to having a shot with the bottom 20% and that being the upper limit of what your best-case physique could get you?
The grand total of female interest I got in just over 15 years of lifting was one girl putting her hand on my bicep for half a second, I still remember it after 10 years. I'm getting on in years and I'm not at my best physically, but even in my best shape it just didn't affect anything except for guys complimenting me and wanting to talk about lifting all the time.
More importantly, over the years I've known a lot of guys with impressive physiques that didn't translate to impressive results. And I've seen hundreds of guys at every level of fitness quit after they realized the implied promise of easy pussy was a lie. No one would quit lifting if it were really that effective for increasing SMV. What happens is they go in hard, all optimistic and psyched but then next year at the beach it's pretty much the same as it ever was, except they can no longer eat and drink whatever they want and they grind their teeth down from seeing guys smaller/weaker than them with hot girls. Okay I can't read their minds, that last part was just me.
I get so triggered over this because I fell for the lifting meme and got jack.
Siyuen_Tea 4y ago
Think of flirting like a road test. The fitter you are the better condition your car. In the end, if you don't know how to drive, you'll still fail but the better the car, the easier it'll be. Fat and sloppy people can still get women the same way you can still drive with overinflated tires and cracked windshield but it doesn't make it any easier. There's physical fitness and mental fitness. Don't neglect your mind.
Angry_runt 4y ago
A woman either likes your face or not. If she doesn't, your body will not help you with her.
If you're ugly and 99% of women don't like your face, then your body will not help you with 99% of women... so no, it won't be easier. It'll be easier with that 1% of women you have a shot with, if you can find any of them.
actuallythink 4y ago
You remind me of the mentally handicapped dude at the gym that comes in every day, stands by the pull up machine, watches tv and nods his head for twenty minutes and leaves. I assume he’s there because someone once told him that if he wants a girlfriend he should go to the gym...
lobstergenocide 4y ago
yeah if he wants real results he needs to stand around in the squat rack
wildtimes3 4y ago
Without knowing your location it is tough to comment usefully.
If 15 years of lifting only got you one IOI, you were absolutely not putting yourself in situations to meet women.
Angry_runt 4y ago
To be honest, my body probably peaked after 5 years of lifting and it's been on a gradual decline ever since.
And I've lived in big cities for the most part. I could walk past a hundred women on the street and not have even one give me eye contact. Cashiers act like automatons (no small talk, ever!), and girls I approached were always polite but very obviously not interested. The few dates I got from OkCupid, they would just slump when they'd meet me in person and suddenly they'd have a cold or a class early in the morning or some kind of unplanned issue and that's why we wouldn't go for cocktails but rather a quick coffee and then I'd never see them again.
Anyway, I think if your face (or height or whatever) is a deal breaker for a woman, then your body doesn't even enter the equation. That fits my experience and observations.
TheGreatConst 4y ago
I don't think it is about your face or height, but about your personality and neediness. Sorry to tell you this, but being goodlooking isn't enough, especially so with more attractive women. Some fatty can fuck you no matter what if you are hot enough, just because she lack validation. But hotter women choose whom to fuck based on multiple qualities. If you act like a pussy who put women above himself, who make all efforts to be liked by them - then you will fail in most cases. Red Pill isn't only about your looks. Don't treat pussy like a prize.
wildtimes3 4y ago
Real talk. A buff guy that’s obviously trying to get laid will probably not have as much success compared to his average buddy that truly DNGAF.
throwlaca 4y ago
But it does. Dozens of articles and studies show that fitness accounts for over 70% of perceived SMV (all subjective measurements, obviously).
Angry_runt 4y ago
I'd like to see one of those studies that says that face, height and status are only 30% of a man's perceived SMV. Because if 70% of your SMV depended on your body composition, who wouldn't go to the gym? Who'd ever quit?
The question is not whether being fit is good or not, but whether it's worth it in terms of attracting women. And there's no correct answer. If for example lifting for 2 years to become fit increases your attractiveness by 50%, the cost/benefit will be completely different for a guy who started off attractive to 1% of women and a guy who was attractive to 30% of women. What I'm saying is if you're the former type, it may not be worth it and you should be made aware.
vicata_heth 4y ago
I think you put too much value on getting women. Some of us just don't give a fuck, honestly. We've watched them fuck our friends enough times in horrible ways to know the forbidden fruit ain't worth it.
throwlaca 4y ago
> who wouldn't go to the gym? Who'd ever quit?
Ever saw a roided gym guy being single or dating a fat lady or a girl over 30? going to the gym is **incredibly hard** I'm not talking about going once a week. I'm talking of consistently doing 1 hr of gym or more every day, and carefully regulating your food, for the rest of your life. And even then you won't even reach the body of a Hollywood star like Jason Statham or Hugh Jackman (they go 3+ hs a day to the gym and are on steroids) but you will be close. It's a HUGE sacrifice.
Angry_runt 4y ago
Yes, I've seen and met a few of both types over the 15 years I've been lifting. Obviously it's a group subject to strong sampling bias in that those who don't see much benefit to lifting usually won't keep at it, but there are always a few die-hards. I was never on gear but at my peak fitness people assumed that I was and... well, I saw a dateless gym rat every time I looked in the mirror.
So, about those dozens of articles and studies...
Edit after your edit: I don't think putting in an hour a day is a huge sacrifice if there's a benefit to it. And to have a better body than 95% of your age group, it's enough to put in 4-5 hours a week with good nutrition. If you're in your 20s and younger, you don't even have to sacrifice stuff like booze and sweets. And yet... almost everybody gives up.
throwlaca 4y ago
>I saw a dateless gym rat every time I looked in the mirror.
Well there is a problem with you because I was a skinny-fat balding old bastard for years and never was dateless.
What I know from experience is that is not that going to the gym and having a good body attracts women. Women are attracted to dangerous guys, guys that can fuck up other guys. That's why they go to fat gangsters too. Its not the muscles, it's the danger that comes with them. Maybe you weren't dangerous enough.
Angry_runt 4y ago
And what does that suggest about the importance of lifting if a skinnyfat non lifter could get dates and a serious lifter couldn't?
SuperCrazy07 4y ago
Sigh. Look, we get it. There’s some percent of the male population that’s really fucking ugly and lifting won’t help much.
But, for the vast majority of people it makes a real difference in SMV.
The reason lots of guys don’t do it is because they’re lazy. They also would rather play video games than work their ass off and get rich. Even though they’d love to be rich.
Angry_runt 4y ago
Good, we're making progress. It's that minority of men that I'm trying to warn. As to how many of them are, that is also important, especially if those percentages are changing in one direction or other.
As for believing men most men are too lazy to put 4-5 hours a week in lifting (and some self-control in nutrition) that supposedly has such a dramatic effect on SMV, that's lazy thinking on your part that allows you to dismiss doubts and go on believing what you want to believe.
WingedScorpion 4y ago
If that's the minority of men you want to warn, then mention it. The reason why alot of people in this sub mention lifting is because it does work for us who have done it.
Plus to add to this, this is a sub for sexual strategy. We wanna get laid here and upvote the best working advice. We want to evolve into something better to get laid. Then you come in with your "nah it doesn't work" and try to stop everyone who reads your comment from bettering themselves, by denying it with an anecdotal story.
I get it. We all get it. You lifted and muscles didn't change your ugly face. But you are walking a very fine line of incel, in a sub for getting laid. People like you get reported and banned. That's why you're getting downvoted too.
Now everything that I mentioned is just fact. If you want to talk opinion, then what I think is that everyone should lift because you don't know what you'll find once you've lifted seriously for a year or two. For me and a best friend of mine, we went from beta's with flobby child faces, to a hard defined face with a muscular phsyique. Yes the gym did change my face as well. And another opinion from me, is that you're "advice" to give up will stop the ENTIRETY of men who read your comment from lifting and finding out the man on the other side of lifting.
Finally, believing that not everybody lifts because if it worked everyone would do is the most lazy thinking I've ever seen anyone do. Again, a broad sweeping statement like "everyone EVERYONE thinks this way" and just wrong as well. People don't lift for a variety of reasons, the most common that in my opinion I've heard are "too busy", and "not enough time", "I don't know what to do", "I feel weird/scared/worried going alone", "I don't have money for membership/trainer/food/supplements", to "I have health problems" to "I have better things to do" which could range from children or a sick family member or debts in which they need to work longer hours.
Getting laid via muscle, or even getting laid, isn't everyone's priority so that's why not everyone does it. But the majority of people here in this sub, getting laid is a priority so that's why we lift and it works for alot of us. Don't go stopping people from reaching their potential because your potential ran out.
CandleLess 4y ago
Agreed man. I personally lift but I had a buddy who refused to lift when someone offered him a free pizza to go. Most people are lazy and ashamed of how weak they are, like my friend was. And that's in high school so I don't know how bad it gets when everyone has jobs and families.
Angry_runt 4y ago
I thought I did:
And besides, if this is a sub for helping men getting laid, who needs the most help? The guys who can already get laid or those who can't?
Is there only one sexual strategy for every man? Whether you're ugly and 5'4" or a good looking 6'4", the only one-size-fits-all strategy is "just lift bro"? That kind of advice is letting down the men who need help the most, and if they find out the magic bullet strategy doesn't work for them, what then? Does this sub have any contingencies for that case other than "sucks to be you, now shut up or get banned"?
And it's not even that I'm saying that men shouldn't lift. Women are the only ones who get the vote on what is an attractive man (as far as straight men go anyway) and some things you just can't know for sure until you try. It's just that lifting will not be effective for some men (how many is debatable) and they should be aware of this going in.
WingedScorpion 4y ago
"But as far as attracting women who would otherwise find you unattractive, nah it doesn't work that way."
No, you didn't. See that^ you completely mentioned that lifting doesn't work at all in a broad sweeping statement on your first comment. You really think everyone is gonna read the entire comment chain, as most of your comments are downvoted to hell and not even showing anymore? So yeah, you did mention it was only for that minority of men, AFTER you did the damage and only after you were called out on it, and only on one of the other comments down the chain that was completely downvoted and closed out.
"And besides, if this is a sub for helping men getting laid, who needs the most help? The guys who can already get laid or those who can't?"
Your question is irrelevant to what I said. I'm not budging from the argument and going down the road you want me to. You are wrong when you said lifting doesn't work that way, and it won't attract women who would otherwise find people attractive. That is a huge broad statement, and finding only one person who it did work for, makes you wrong. I can be that one person because it worked for me, and it worked for a friend of mine. Quit stopping other people's progress with broad sweeping statements. That's what everyone's downvoting you for.
Now if you can behave and quit your shit, then we can talk about the other stuff. No there isn't just one sexual strategy for every man. No, the only one-size-fits-all-strategy here isn't "just lift bro". Read more trp, we emphasize game and money too. We don't EVER claim to have a magic bullet, we merely talk about sexual strategy and what works. Everyone has their story, everyone tells their story, everyone talks about how what worked for them, and people add other tips to help each other out. As for this sub having any contingencies, we don't have contingencies we don't need one. We have a diverse toolkit that everyone adds to.
It's clear you're not reading any of the sidebar which is necessary, and grounds to be banned. So no, you're not being banned because "sux 2b u, enjoy ur ban" it's because you're not doing anything right, and you haven't spent enough time here reading to even be trying to add to the conversation. In fact, you're conversation isn't adding anything either, it's just removing advice.
We've heard your story before. When the incels sub shut down, they all came here and were saying the exact same things. Yes we banned alot of them, you know why? Not because it was a contingency, but because they didn't shut the fuck up and read the sidebar or follow the rules or add anything of value.
Yeah I get that you aren't saying men shouldn't lift, but you made a broad sweeping hopeless statement that lifting doesn't work. You're right, women do vote on what is attractive and searching any statistical study will show that women prefer men who are muscular looking, or men with physical strength. And finally, you're right lifting will not effective for some men. Again, that's is why we also advocate money and game.
Again, it's clear you don't read this sub alot and this is why you will be banned if you don't quit your shit. I have nothing against you at all, I don't care either way if you get banned, I'm just stating the facts. Read the sub, read the sidebar, and quit detracting.
Finally, as a sign that I'm not being an asshole, I'll give you my story. Lifting took a long time for me. I've been doing it for 5 years and I only feel that I just reached a point where I finally look good or muscular. But that wasn't all that helped me get laid. What really helped me as well, was game and money. I began working on game because I was so scrawny, couldn't grow a beard, and I knew lifting would take forever. I didn't want to lift, it was fucking boring and hard and the discipline needed to do it with actual proper diet was too much for my lazy ass. Just like alot of other men that you don't believe have the same thought process as me, we are lazy. So I worked on game. Game was a hit or miss for me at first, but as I sharpened my game, I worked on my money. I learned, like a recent post here said that you probably didn't read, that women are bored and want to feel something anything. I used my game to hook women, I used money to keep them by taking them out to places they had never been before. I used game to push/pull and make them feel wanted and then ignored and then beautiful and then invisible. I planned dates with 3 different places we could go to jumping around town and women loved it, the sense of adventure. All this while lifting and slowly building muscle. I used to need alot of game to get this done, but with muscle, I need less game and less money to get women.
So again, if you think we are running around shouting lifting as the ONLY thing, you're delusional. Also clearly hurt from it not working for you. We don't care, you haven't read the sidebar and you haven't been reading the posts people make here. We've said it so many times, we even used the phrase "magic bullet" to emphasize that we don't do that. We don't have one, we have a diverse toolkit that everyone adds to.
tl;dr - Quit your shit, and start reading.
Angry_runt 4y ago
But you're not reading what I wrote. I didn't word it that way by accident. If a woman finds you unattractive without muscles, she won't find you attractive with muscles. If your face or height or race are repulsive to women, your body doesn't matter. No one is a virgin because they don't have enough muscle.
I was not commenting on what's in the sidebar but what's in the posts. In posts I see a lot more emphasis on lifting than I think is warranted and I just happen to know from long experience (not just mine but hundreds of guys I've known personally over the years) that muscles will not make you attractive to women who would find you unattractive without the muscles. So when some incel or whoever comes here and gets told to invest years into something I know is very unlikely to change their situation, I want to warn them. Time is the most precious resource and there's only so much things one can focus on. Focusing on lifting is a bad move for some men and it's them I'm talking to.
I've already read your post history. Reading is not a problem, sidebar included. I'm ugly, not dyslexic. And as for the sidebar, let's not pretend TRP is breaking some radically new ground. It's yet another evolution of the seduction community and nothing in the sidebar was new to me even the first time I read it years ago. And I don't particularly disagree with almost any of it. It's the content of the posts that I'm reacting to.
So to summarize your experience, you were learning and applying game and you used money to get girls. At the same time you were lifting, but didn't even look like you lifted. So why would you whiteknight so hard for lifting when according to you it only had a minor effect on your success if any? Maybe it's your ever improving game that lets you pull higher quality girls, not your body? Maybe a sample size of 10-20-however many girls is just not high enough for you to be able to tell?
My story: in late 2003 I was just an average guy, not fat no skinny. I went on a cut until spring 2004, ending up very lean. Then I lifted so hard I still have stretch marks from it 15 years later. By summer 2005 I had guys complimenting me and wanting to talk about lifting all the time and sometimes random guys on the street asking me to recommend a gym. Women however were treating me exactly the same as before. I was walking around the same streets, campuses, malls, nightclubs... no change in their reactions whatsoever. Those I approached were polite but uninterested, exactly the same as before. I felt scammed by the implied promise of easy pussy turning out to be a lie. Over the years since, I figured out it's not uncommon for other guys too - muscles just don't have that effect on women. All things being equal, sure they'd prefer muscles (although not so much for The Rock to be cast as a romantic lead like ever), but things are never equal. The most equal they can get is what happened to me, average in early 2004, jacked in summer 2005, no effect on women.
Now imagine that had happened to you, and then you see guys on TRP being told to do what you did. Wouldn't you feel obligated to chime in with your experience?
Finally, you keep mentioning I'm getting downvoted or whatever, like it matters. If guys who talk about some TRP strategies not working for them get banned, of course you're going to be left with a community that believes all strategies are spot on and that my experience is invalid. That doesn't make them right and it doesn't make me wrong.
buttgoogler 4y ago
It seems that you red pilled folks from US face no competition at all. Living in a post-soviet country I rarely even see unfit/feminine men.
Psycholephant 4y ago
Trust me, that also means slimmer pickings of the women as well. It's a chubby chasers dream in the US. I remember firing up Tinder in the Netherlands once and the difference was insane. Ran out of swipes and only saw like two chubby girls while in the US id see a landwhale on every other swipe.
poet_and 4y ago
Post soviets do have more good looking and feminine women. So it evens out
Blackhawk2479 4y ago
According to that article, the average female BMI in the US is over 28!
Symph1337 4y ago
I'm actually from NZ, but we have a similar obesity problem here. Guys my age I see are typically skinny or fat (usually skinny fat), but very very rarely fit.
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bsutansalt 4y ago
I've been to NZ a couple of times. It's not nearly in as bad of shape as the US. In fact it's far more fit overall with healthy food portions and less readily available fast food, and people are generally much more active than your average American is today. I'd say it's like what the UK used to be like 20-25 years ago before it too got fat.
Yakatonker 4y ago
Americans are quite active already, the real problem is the obesigenic foods the government is pushing on the population. The US government also subsidizes such foods. A lot of this is unfortunately done with malicious of foresight against the US population as there's some unholy axis between agricultural corporations and pharmaceuticals to farm the population with symptomatic treatments that never treat root causation.
There's also been a massive proliferation of pseudo scientific nutritional information to mask these effects, concepts like a calorie is a calorie or even CICO are outright fraud and not substantiated in the literature.
bsutansalt 4y ago
Can you explain the calories are calories myth? More need to see it explained.
Ivan_The_Reddish 4y ago
A few days late, but fuck it.
The general idea behind "calories in calories out" or "a calorie is a calorie" is that if you eat 2000 calories a day and burn 2000 calories a day you will stay the same weight. The problem with this is that calories in influence calories out. Humans are a biology problem, not a physics problem.
2000 calories of cheap carbs such as processed grains and sugars will spike your insulin and set your body up to store fat. Insulin also hinders burning body fat for energy, so you'll get hungry more and/or your body will down regulate your metabolism. So now you're still eating 2000 calories a day, but you're only burning 1800. Or you're hungrier and burning 2000 calories a day, but now you're eating 2300.
2000 calories of fat won't spike your insulin, and you'll be able to access body fat for energy as needed. No need to down regulate your metabolism because your body can't access its energy stores.
And then there's the fact that your body will also down regulate your metabolism if you're in a calorie deficit on a high carb diet, since insulin keeps you from accessing your fat stores. This is why those people on the biggest loser have such a hard time keeping the weight off. If you're sufficiently low carb, your body can just get the extra energy from body fat and so it won't down regulate your metabolism.
Obviously there's more to it than that, but that's the 35,000 foot view.
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Symph1337 4y ago
Oh interesting, depending on where you get your data we can rank quite highly though sometimes
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/health/new-zealand-third-fattest-country-in-the-world-oecd/
Greaterbird 4y ago
Todd looks like complete shit and he's not even that fat. Meanwhile big guys can look fine if there's muscle underneath giving them shape.
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SMRII 4y ago
Pretty sure I am this guy
rockmasterflex 4y ago
This post is from 2013. There's gotta be something more up to date with an even flabbier, more sad Todd who is addicted to mood altering drugs
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Menchstick 4y ago
Height is not exclusively tied to genetic. I. The article they mention diet as the main factor of the drop
Due_Generi 4y ago
Height is reduced by severe malnutrition, something you don't see in America at all.
FuckWayne 4y ago
Yeah but they don’t actually cite any evidence for why that might be
Cryptoguru777 4y ago
It's true though. Most normalfags look pretty much like that.
i_love_chicks 4y ago
I work in nightlife and I am constantly seeing out of shape guys with hot chicks. I guess they have good game.
Due_Generi 4y ago
Test that hypothesis and see if she's willing to fuck you.
majani 4y ago
Or the good looking women are broke or underemployed and the fat guy is subsidizing her dream lifestyle.
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throwlaca 4y ago
Most US guys I saw are huge a fat, but I also saw lots of fat guys with lots of muscle in them. They don't look bad IMHO.
Pussyshack 4y ago
Fat guys with muscle....
Biggest piece of bullshit I've read
Greaterbird 4y ago
You can be both big and muscular. A 6' guy that is 300lbs is going to look way different at 75% bodyfat vs 25%.
get-tilted 4y ago
Right, yeah. I’m a 6’1 290ish former football player, and I have a good bit of muscle on me. I’m probably 25-30% bf.
I don’t look bad, as I’m still probably in the top 30-50% depending on what a girl likes. Whereas if I were 290lbs of higher bf%, I’d look like shit and likely be in the bottom 10%
With that said, there’s zero doubt I’d look 10x better as a 6’1 230 lb 15-20% bf man.
throwlaca 4y ago
Think of a 300 lbs marine. You won't see any muscle on them, but you can see the guys go to the gym and can decapitate you with a punch if they want.
Pussyshack 4y ago
A 300lb lard ass can't move fast enough to kill shit. Nice try.
FuckWayne 4y ago
Have you ever seen half the dudes on NFL rosters?
Pussyshack 4y ago
Yeah, they're fat & can't more too. That's why they're linebackers.
FuckWayne 4y ago
this is Tyron Smith.
He’s an offensive tackle for the Dallas Cowboys and weighs about 320 pounds. I think he’s mobile enough.
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Pussyshack 4y ago
Nope. I'm a fit BBC who could steal your bitch from you actually.
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Matsukishi 4y ago
Friggin michael from gta over here
cleverraptor77 4y ago
So the SMV spike at 30 is not cause you lifted and you hit 30 but also hugely cause your competition nosedived compared to 20 where most guys have metabolism to be lean?
fuckGuilt 4y ago
Yes, but you must remain muscular and lean.
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KingOfPomerania 4y ago
How dare they use the name Todd for this monstrosity! They have besmirched the good name of Godd Howard, our lord and saviour!
Diablo-D3 4y ago
What did Toad Howard do now?