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- Hide Preview | 73 Comments | submitted 2 weeks ago by MasculineDevelopment [Post Locked]

What's up, guys. I want to make a post addressing the stages that people go through after discovering the red pill. It's modeled after the Kübler-Ross model, which is a psychological theory regarding stages of grief.

The 5 stages are as follows:

  1. Denial
  2. Anger
  3. Bargaining
  4. Depression
  5. Acceptance

These five stages are typically undergone anytime someone loses somebody close to them, but I think it's very applicable to the red pill, as well. As you're reading this, ask yourself which stage you're in.

Stage 1. Denial

This is what happens when a blue pilled AFC reads his first ROK article or TRP post. He's immediately met with a sense of denial, which is a protective mechanism to preserve his belief system.

The "Denial Stage" is also rife with ad hominems used to protect one's own belief system:

  • "TRP is so sexist!"
  • "TRP is so cynical!"
  • "TRP is so delusional!"

If somebody is in the denial phase, it doesn't matter how much evidence you show them that contract their belief systems... they will not budge. If you know people like this, it's best to move on and stop trying to convince them.

Stage 2. Anger

This is often referred to as the "Red Pill Rage" stage in our community. Stage 2 is characterized by an intense sense of anger, at society, at women, and at life as a whole.

The "Anger Stage" is rife with comments such as:

  • "Women are such sluts!"
  • "Society is so full of sh*t!"
  • "The media just LIES to everyone!"

The "Anger Stage" is one that's typically short and intense. If one is unable to let go of their victim complex however, this stage can continue on for years, and eventually create violent offenders.

Stage 3. Bargaining

Once an individual begins to accept the "red pill truths," they will try to bargain with the ideology laid out in this subreddit, and will often accept parts of it, but deny other parts.

The "Bargaining Stage" is typically represented by comments such as:

  • "Not all women are like that!"
  • "Hypergamy only affects some women!"
  • "Yeah, people care about looks, but personality matters too!"

The bargaining stage is the last stage where an individual still hangs on to their old blue pill ideology. Desperate not to let their old belief system crumble, they still hang onto any last remnants of it which they find plausible.

Stage 4. Depression

This is the phase that typically lasts the longest. It is a severe sense of nihilism and cynicism regarding the world, after one realizes he has been lied to, duped, and tricked by society and others.

I would also like to point out, at my own risk, that this is the phase that many of the people here are stuck in. They don't believe they can improve their lives, and don't believe it's worth it to try.

This phase is marked by comments such as:

  • "What's the use? All the Chads will just get the girls anyways."
  • "Make more money? Yeah, so the Chads can f*ck my wife on the side."
  • "All girls cheat. What's the point of even getting a girlfriend?"

This stage marks an inability to understand nuance, and is very depleting. Once an individual lets go of their emotions however, they can move onto the final stage: acceptance.

Stage 5. Acceptance

This is the stage we're all trying to get to. It's marked by a calm serenity, and an acceptance that yes, the world simply is how it is, and no amount of thinking or emotion will change this.

The "Acceptance" stage is marked by the following comments:

  • "I'm going to improve my life and try to find a loyal woman."
  • "Even though not all girls are loyal you can still screen hard and find a decent one."
  • "Yes, cheating is a possibility, but if you guard your family and your life, you can drastically reduce its odds of happening."

The acceptance stage is the holy grail, because it allows one to fully accept the red pill ideology, without being burdened by the often heavy emotions which come with it (anger, depression, etc.).

Which Stage Are You In?

Now, the important part. Ask yourself which stage you're in, and then you will gain a greater understanding of what you need to do. I would guess that most people here are either in the "anger" stage or the "depression" stage.

Of course, even after accepting the red pill, you will still be met with these emotions. I occasionally get angry that society is so blue pilled, and feel cynical over the future. The key however, is that this is not my overarching state.

These stages represent an "overarching stage" that guide an individual's thoughts, actions, and behaviors. Thus, someone in the "Anger Stage" will still feel calm at times, and someone in the "Depression Stage" will still feel happy at times. It's about the general feeling however, and the general belief system.

I hope you guys gained some value out of this. I know it certainly helped me navigate the red pill reality, so I hope it gives you some clarity in where you may be at in your journey.

[-] booboo8889 77 Points 2 weeks ago

Stage 6: Not giving a fuck. Honestly, at this point I don't care anymore if they cheat. Makes no difference, if anything it's their loss.

[-] PickUpScientist 42 Points 2 weeks ago

i think that's the healthiest version of acceptance. for some reason, all three examples of acceptance in the OP look like blue pill goals to me.

[-] redpill77 8 Points 2 weeks ago

Yes, they're definitely still bargaining

[-] [deleted] 2 weeks ago
[-] throwabcdaway4 5 Points 2 weeks ago

This is anger. You cant healthily deny your deep instinct of creating a family

[-] MasculineDevelopment 6 Points 2 weeks ago

Came here to say this. "Not giving a fuck...I don't care...makes no difference...it's their loss."

Sounds a lot like anger there, man.

[-] booboo8889 25 Points 2 weeks ago

You got it wrong, there is no anger here just pure acceptance of reality. I am doing this shit for 10 years, I've been through "the stages" many times :) Your stage5 is still based on BP desires and needinees. Keep learning.

[-] MasculineDevelopment -5 Point 2 weeks ago

I don't think so, man. Nothing BP about believing you can actually build a family and not get fucked over. It requires a lot of careful planning and screening, of course... but it's still very doable.

[-] booboo8889 8 Points 2 weeks ago

Desiring "safe" family is the definition of BP. Once you experience true abundance with top shelf pussy, the last thing you want is to commit to just one. I also see all girls as terribly flawed, full of problems hidden behind a mask while she is chasing commitment and validation.

There is no anger here, if anything we feel more compassion for the girls.

[-] MasculineDevelopment 1 Point 2 weeks ago

I would disagree. I'm not saying to desire "safe," but there's a certain point where your SMV peaks and you want to marry a girl that's the best you can get.

[-] booboo8889 7 Points 2 weeks ago

My mindset is more like: you can always do better.

Even the one(s) you perceive as a very high quality (one to marry) will eventually bring you more trouble in LTR then they are worth. Sex will decline, as will her looks, meanwhile my value should just keep increasing until I no longer care.

Marriage as a strategy was never really optimal. It was decent choice for betas until recently, now it's not even that. Sidebar, brother.

[-] [deleted] 2 weeks ago
[-] Andrew54321 4 Points 2 weeks ago

Yuck. The best you can get? How about being the best around.

[-] BrownGummyBear 2 Points 2 weeks ago

This is exactly why you're getting downvoted. Because the only alternatives you presented on the acceptance phase was something along the lines of "find a girl/family".

"there's a certain point where your SMV peaks and you want to marry a girl that's the best you can get." Well that's on you buddy. I wouldn't settle down when my SMV peaks, on the contrary I would be pursuing even more women now that I can have a bigger selection of pussy. You're assuming we all would want to do what YOU want to do, but there's plenty more ways to live life than "hoping you find the right girl" so you can achieve your "life goals".

That's why you're getting downvoted, the only options you chose are hands down influenced by blue pill thinking. Least you can do is be real about it

[-] DrNoAwS 1 Point 2 weeks ago

That is definitely purple pill and does not describe the acceptance stage.

[-] BrownGummyBear 2 Points 2 weeks ago

The “having kids through a traditional family” goal/lifestyle is literally what the blue pill was invented for, as a way to structure society. Your version of acceptance is still pursuing blue pill goals.

[-] SneakerMarket1 4 Points 2 weeks ago

I'm not sure if it is anger tbh because I agree with it to some extent. Anybody is capable of doing anything under certain parameters and therefore it makes sense to not disillusion yourself into thinking that a woman would never cheat on you for example. It's sacrificing the endless possibilities of reality for your ideals and that's a risky game.

[-] sebbegerbert 1 Point 2 weeks ago

Deep instinct of creating a family? You mean having kids?

[-] whuttupfoo 0 Points 2 weeks ago

Is it an instinct? Or is it socially conditioned?

[-] TimelessNY 1 Point 2 weeks ago

Sounds like stage 4.5 rather. Or an optional side-quest.

[-] [deleted] 2 weeks ago
[-] red_philosopher 19 Points 2 weeks ago

It helps to know that the 5 stages of grief can be experienced multiple times and in any order as you process your experiences. It also helps to know that sometimes some of the stages may need to be experienced just to progress through one stage all on its own.

Take the anger phase for example, how many guys here are in denial about being in the anger phase? Or how many of them have asked for help attempting to reconcile their feelings with what they have to do? Accepting that they are still angry with everything?

I'd also add that your "Acceptance" examples are pretty square in denial and bargaining still:

"I'm going to improve my life and try to find a loyal woman."

Women are only as loyal as you are awesome. AWALT.

"Even though not all girls are loyal you can still screen hard and find a decent one."

Better, but women, again, are only as loyal as you are awesome. AWALT.

"Yes, cheating is a possibility, but if you guard your family and your life, you can drastically reduce its odds of happening."

No you can't. You cannot control her, just as she cannot control you. "It's just your turn."

It is always just your turn. Just as it is always just her turn.

Acceptance is when they start to be their own source of validation. They don't need women in their lives for anything other than because they want them there.

[-] TurdBurgermcgee 8 Points 2 weeks ago

Argue with me if I'm wrong, but I believe you can be as great as you want, at some point a woman will start nitpicking. How long that takes is dependent on you, but a bit of it is on her. Do you really think you can keep it up forever? Not sure with today's women that many marriages or LTRs are going to last a lifetime. Hell, even some old school couples I've known got divorced in their 70s & 80s.

What I'm trying to get at is that at some point, a woman is going to think she can do better, or decide she doesn't like the dynamic anymore and wants to try a beta she can boss around. Misguided or not, she'll probably pursue that.

[-] red_philosopher 3 Points 2 weeks ago

I agree with your take on it. It could be 30 years later, when you're older and have old people issues and she's looking for someone with less old people issues xD

Even menopausal women are still AWALT.

[-] Perksie1027 2 Points 2 weeks ago

Here here. Mine was going on for 25 years together. She was a banging 9 easy. I got the bait and switch though after we got married 17 years ago. Ah the idealism I had. Yeah sure you’ll grow old together. It’s a different generation and they don’t have to stay with you. She’s not happy and she moved on in her head and that was that. I’m out now enjoying my own flat kids a bit shocked by it all but when they change sometimes you just can’t get through to them.

[-] MasculineDevelopment 1 Point 2 weeks ago

We're going meta now, boys.

All jokes aside, good points. I disagree with your quotes, though. It sounds like you were cheated on, and are still holding onto some of that Stage 2 anger.

Improving your life and trying to find a decent woman isn't denial or bargaining. Not saying girls don't cheat, but some girls were raised in such strict Christian households that they would feel such shame and guilt over cheating they would never do it.

Again, I'm not making a case for "unicorn" or anything like that... but studies show that around 25% of people cheat (self-reported, so it's probably more like 50% or 75%). But there's still a decent 1-5% of women who would be too afraid/guilty to cheat.

This is coming from a guy with a 100+ notch count as well, so I'm no newb here. I just don't think that it's productive or accurate to believe you can NEVER find a girl who can be loyal.

Note that this isn't bargaining, either. I realize that under the RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCES anyone could cheat (alcohol, hypergamy, emotions, etc.), but you can design your life and screen a woman so that the odds are .001% instead of like 25%.

[-] red_philosopher 6 Points 2 weeks ago

Meta indeed.

Interestingly enough, I've never been cheated on to my knowledge.

but some girls were raised in such strict Christian households that they would feel such shame and guilt over cheating they would never do it.

Again, I'm not making a case for "unicorn" or anything like that...

What is it then if not a unicorn? A horse with a traffic cone on it's head?

but studies show that around 25% of people cheat (self-reported, so it's probably more like 50% or 75%). But there's still a decent 1-5% of women who would be too afraid/guilty to cheat.

You're saying that they are incapable of branch-swinging behavior?

This is coming from a guy with a 100+ notch count as well, so I'm no newb here. I just don't think that it's productive or accurate to believe you can NEVER find a girl who can be loyal.

They will be loyal for as long as you are awesome. That's basically the gist of hypergamy. If you stay awesome, they stay loyal. If you start to fuck up, they start looking for a replacement.

Note that this isn't bargaining, either. I realize that under the RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCES anyone could cheat (alcohol, hypergamy, emotions, etc.), but you can design your life and screen a woman so that the odds are .001% instead of like 25%.

You're in for a rude awakening if you keep trying to convince yourself that "vetting" can keep hypergamy in check.

[-] 555WeWolf 1 Point 2 weeks ago

But in reality should't "staying awesome" be your general direction in life? It is clear you should lift because it is good for your health (both physical and mental), you should constantly learn and improve yourself so you can be happy because we know that progress equals happiness. And as stated before a women should only be a complement to such a life.

Honestly if I start not giving a shit about my health, finance, etc. i don't event expect a women to be loyal anymore, all red pill and hypergamy aside why would a woman (a decent one ofc) stay loyal to such a man on who she can't rely on, and looking for a replacement here seems perfectly logical not necessarily to trade "up" but to simply trade to a decent level.

[-] DrNoAwS 1 Point 2 weeks ago

Being awesome or you being the best you can be does not mean she will not cheat if somebody comes around that she decides is more awesome, or who just gives her the right feeling in that special moment. Does not necessarily mean she's going to replace you but cheating definitely is in the cards.

[-] MasculineDevelopment 0 Points 2 weeks ago

Not a unicorn, just a rare girl. Just like there's rare dudes, there's also rare girls. Don't think that everyone is always 100% driven by pure sexual drive all the time. There's other things that come into play.

Never said people can't branch swing... and yeah, of course. That's why you stay awesome. I never said you can get a girl and she won't cheat if you fuck up your life and become an alcoholic or something.

Let's dispense with the straw man arguments, my dude!

[-] PartyCanceller 4 Points 2 weeks ago

The Acceptance phase does sound a little bit like the bargaining phase to me. Not because the goals are necessarily unrealistic but just because the goals are so woman focused. Acceptance is when you realize that even if a woman does cheat that it really doesn’t matter. Life will still be okay because you are awesome and can forge your own path, with or without a woman. The ECs and Vanguards don’t preach “You can still find those 5% of women who will certainly not cheat” or “here are tips to reduce the odds of your woman cheating,” they post about the things they do that make them happy. Acceptance phase is when your life goals aren’t centered around “finding that right woman” or “what she wants” but instead are centered around the stuff that you want to accomplish. A woman should be a nice accompaniment to your life, and accepting that she is her own person too and has the freedom to stay or go just as you do is part of that acceptance phase, even if she is part of that 1-5% that would never cheat.

[-] yung_mad 1 Point 2 weeks ago

Now this is meta, my friends. The acceptance stage should be accepting that its only our turn. Work on yourselves and make your own life better. The women will come and go. If one stays so be it but that shouldn’t be the focus imo.

[-] SeasonedRP 3 Points 2 weeks ago

Girls raised in "strict Christian households" are as or more likely to cheat in my experience. And why not? "A strict Christian household" is code for mom is in charge and dad better be obedient to her or she'll pull a Fireproof on him to force his submission.

[-] BrownGummyBear 1 Point 2 weeks ago

So every time someone disagrees with you you reply something between the lines of: “it sounds like X/Y happened to you therefore you think Z”.

[-] [deleted] 2 weeks ago
[-] Yavuzest 5 Points 2 weeks ago

Acceptance, still get throwbacks to rage phase rarely tho

[-] [deleted] 2 weeks ago
[-] OverEasyFetus 5 Points 2 weeks ago

Been stuck in stage 2 for years. Sometimes I cross into stage 3 as a coping mechanism. Just something to make myself feel better about the fact that life isn't what my parents made me think it was. It's shitty and I don't know how to get out of it.

[-] MasculineDevelopment 2 Points 2 weeks ago

Start by accepting the anger. Don't resist it, understand it's there for a reason. It's normal to feel angry and betrayed by society, women, etc., for lying to you. Sounds like you might be able to skip Stage 3 altogether, which isn't uncommon. Lots of guys only spend an HOUR compared to YEARS in some of the stages, depending on how they psychologically cope with the red pill.

[-] travhall19 1 Point 2 weeks ago

relatable: this is how i feel

[-] SeasonedRP 5 Points 2 weeks ago
  • I'm going to improve my life and try to find a loyal woman."
  • "Even though not all girls are loyal you can still screen hard and find a decent one."
  • "Yes, cheating is a possibility, but if you guard your family and your life, you can drastically reduce its odds of happening."

Say what? Why are you encouraging BP thinking and goals on a RP board? And you call these statements examples of
acceptance of RP? All three of your statements are false and contradicted by RP. Take this delusional tradcon stuff over to MRP or some bible studies sub; we have more than enough of it polluting this sub. You haven't scratched the surface of RP reality, much less navigated it.

[-] MasculineDevelopment 0 Points 2 weeks ago

Not at all. People keep straw manning my points.

I'm not saying you won't get cheated on. I'm not saying that most people don't cheat. I'm saying that if you make a commitment to screen a girl HARD, build an awesome life, and keep her away from toxic hypergamy-encouraging environments, you can reduce the odds of cheating by a significant amount.

[-] zwembadsniper 1 Point 2 weeks ago

Nobody is saying that what you want isn't possible but it simply isn't what this sub is about. TRP isn't about being a controlling 'family man' who seeks traditional values.

[-] TheGweatandTewwible -3 Point 2 weeks ago

Exactly. I don't understand why most the guys here aren't getting this

[-] MasculineDevelopment 0 Points 2 weeks ago

Because they're still in Stage 2 without realizing it, lol.

[-] FaP_corleone 3 Points 2 weeks ago

Thought Redpill Acceptance was about spinning plates instead of finding a loyal woman.

[-] MasculineDevelopment 2 Points 2 weeks ago

Or this. Depends on how old you are and what you want.

[-] MeansToABenz 3 Points 2 weeks ago

The "Acceptance" stage is marked by the following comments:

"I'm going to improve my life and try to find a loyal woman." "Even though not all girls are loyal you can still screen hard and >find a decent one." "Yes, cheating is a possibility, but if you guard your family and your >life, you can drastically reduce its odds of happening."

All these statements are blue-pill, no one in acceptance should be uttering these words.

[-] TheGweatandTewwible 3 Points 2 weeks ago

I'm seeing a lot of comments saying how OP's last stage sounds like the "bargaining" stage. But you have to understand that the final red pill is that you choose what to focus on in the world.

If you choose to focus at all times that a girl will drop you at the flip of a dime, then that's just you choosing to be jaded. She might, of course, but the point isn't whether she will or won't cheat but rather that you choose to see a positive side to all of this.

Be realistic, yes, but instead of asking yourself when is she going to cheat, think "how can I make my life better, regardless of where it might end up?" It's a subtle tweak that will change your life. Think bigger picture. Call it blue pill or whatever, but cynicism/nihilism is something that I cannot stand. Mostly because it's the easy way out. It takes effort to see things in a brighter light, but you get used to it and it changes your life for the better. At least in my experience it did. Peace ✌

[-] MasculineDevelopment 1 Point 2 weeks ago

Agreed, and thanks man. Nihilism doesn't help anyone. The points I made are 100% true, people just keep strawmanning them.

[-] ex_addict_bro 3 Points 2 weeks ago

Phase 5 is where you show your cards. You’re using trp to chase blue pill goals. You will fail.

[-] chef_fuckYourBitch 2 Points 2 weeks ago

The Kübler-Ross model is probably bullshit and has been criticized for lack of evidence. Research hasn't demonstrated that these stages actually exist in people as complete, discrete states. Research hasn't shown that people move from stages 1-5. This model is basically a meme that gets perpetuated by pop culture and Hollywood even though real scientists have moved past it. Readers might be better off with building psychological resilience instead.

[-] 555WeWolf 2 Points 2 weeks ago

Currently in stage 4 but not just about women but life in general. If it was just regarding women i believe i would have gotten past this by now but lately I have been having doubts about life itself. Yes the sun will rise tomorrow and the day after, yes i will finish college and get that decent paying job and yes there are some everyday things that one can look forward to.

But then i look around and the majority seems useless. I feel like you need to constantly play god for a women to be loyal. I feel like no matter how much i work and no matter how much money i make in the future i am doomed to be stuck in the "rat race". Everyone you meet is looking out just for their well being and don't give a shit about you (which i understand is perfectly logical and normal). Everyone you meet puts up a mask to play some role etc. etc. you get the idea.

[-] RedIsBestColour 2 Points 2 weeks ago

There are no stages. You either accept it or not. It took me a couple of years to accept AWALT though

[-] MasculineDevelopment -1 Point 2 weeks ago

>What is psychology
>What is the red pill rage
>What is the Kubler Ross model

There are stages. This is very clear.

[-] Imboni 1 Point 2 weeks ago

Hasn't this already been done by ECs or something? There was even a comment in that post about how pizza is just pizza. It's an old post, but its there.

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[-] GearaltofRivia 1 Point 2 weeks ago

I’m like in all of these groups depending on the time of day. I find myself raging more than others (4 months)

[-] [deleted] 2 weeks ago
[-] EdmondDaunts 1 Point 2 weeks ago

You also need somewhere in there the point where you start listening to your dick. Not the Dick Brain but the dick, the sensor itself. It goes “that’s alright” and you acknowledge it without trying to chase. Without trying force a plan of action. You listen, relax and then see what you are going to do.

An example was when you learn Game and then feel a tinge of anxiety because you aren’t gaming as many women as possible.

One of the honest entities in your life is your dick. Along with your gut.

[-] justgotalpha 1 Point 2 weeks ago

I think i skipped some phases like going from denial to acceptance! Its just the way it is! TRP has slapped in the face really hard every time i met a “unicorn” and thought to myself that she is not like other women !! Guys just be the best version of you and keep your options open , plate women and dont care about their feelings only care about you , trust me is the only thing you can do to control the situation

[-] KarmaKill23 1 Point 2 weeks ago

I’ve thought about making a post like this for a long time. Honestly think its sidebar worthy.

[-] MasculineDevelopment 1 Point 2 weeks ago

Thanks, man. I think it's really important that people understand this process, because it not only affects them, but the people in their lives that they try to red pill, as well.

[-] KarmaKill23 1 Point 2 weeks ago

Yeah. Also its important to know that a lot of guys go through this when they find this sub. The transformation doesn’t happen overnight.

[-] MasculineDevelopment 1 Point 2 weeks ago

Who the fuck is disliking these comments? More proof that so many dudes here are stuck in Stage 2

[-] zwembadsniper 1 Point 2 weeks ago

So angry about his internet points. Checkmate.

[-] SeemedGood 1 Point 2 weeks ago

Your acceptance stage is remarkably similar to the bargaining stage.

I would think that true acceptance is when one stops trying to find a “good” woman because one has accepted women generally for what they are.

[-] AriaRz22 1 Point 2 weeks ago

The big question in my head is what if i want to create a healthy family? Does it depend on me the woman doesnt cheat, or from a good culture and belief system it depends on her to cheat??

[-] rogicar 1 Point 2 weeks ago

We tolerated too much of that stage 2 here. We could have managed that better but we didn't, hence our imminent ban.

[-] samsop 1 Point 2 weeks ago

I can't identify with the latter stages. Depression? I never went through it. Anger? Sure, I was angry at myself for letting so many people fuck me over. Angry at life because I never met my dad and was raised by a single mother whom I love and appreciate but still acknowledge the fact this fucked me up.

Then I went for it, to be honest. Life owes me jack shit. I made my own luck, approached the first attractive girl I met, ended things a few weeks later and didn't for a second have second thoughts because I didn't feel valued. I realized I had plates before I knew there was a term for that, I got my shit together and now leave 3 unanswered texts a day.

The difference is I value myself now. I started valuing myself enough to quit my first job out of college with no guarantees. I asked for the pay I wanted somewhere else and fucking got it then I tripled it, and some more. I'm negotiating with 3 different companies that want me now, and they're all trying to entice me, not the other way around. Because I understand my self-worth now and refuse to believe the bullshit you're sold that you're allowed to underperform and expect anything back.

I'm not there yet but I know I am getting there.

But I'm not angry, I'm receptive to life's truths now. And to anyone who tries to sell me anything less, I confidently say go fuck yourself.

[-] Haytch1234 1 Point 2 weeks ago

Acceptance.

Just focusing on turning into the best version of myself. And have been for 10 years (27 now).

I would say I became " red pilled" at a really young age at 17. But took some time over the years to fully incorporate into my life. And around 20-21 to admit I had nothing of value to offer and aim to improve myself and my life from there on

[-] krayono 1 Point 2 weeks ago

I don’t remember going these phases because the red pill just made sense. If anything, I’m in the acceptance phase.

[-] thebadguy89 1 Point 2 weeks ago

I skipped the anger stage, idk why. Id say im on a mix between stage 3 and 5 right now. Still feel like theres some good ones out there.