We all know women respond(in every kind of feedback) best to people who can spike their emotionality and keep their emotions more alive, women thrive on emotions, they are hungry for stimulation, and if you can't stimulate her emotions you're off the game. And they act like a bitch to those who don't. Those emotionality can be triggered by the specific materials (abstract or not), these are: looks, money, status, posture and relaxed not giving a fuck outlook and mindset, attitude, high conversation skills, the speech directly ticks her nasty side, unintentional quality representing manly acts,behaviors(pretending or fake it till make it is off the chart), and so on.
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So after learning all these information. We are still not free, because almost every men know this, but are they able to use them? No. Because there are still obstacles in the way of "seeing". I see all the time that Media, Feminists, Blue pilled people tend to call men who know these stuff and use them as "Manipulators" or "Narcisstics" "NPD". This is another shit test, blaming others at its finest, but these kind of shit tests works on a macro level. That is why we lost many men to these stupid ideologies, because the lie is so big that people are unable to self-evaluate with clear seeing.
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Just go on Quora and read the stories that he manipulated me, %90 of them looks very corny, I take my best objective high ground view and read them, whatever I do, even I empathize with her, the stories are fucking ridicilous, they expect from men to think for themselves and blame them for not doing so and so on. I would like to hear your thoughts about "Manipulation" or just being "Emotionally intelligent in Conversations" and playing the game according to the rules. Where are the lines cross? Or the Women blurrs the lines to whatever her feelings pleases, and there are really no lines? What do you think we are really doing? It is not a self-moral trouble. According to me whatever we do, if they don't like it, they blame, shame, lie to the men, it doesn't matter who the man is, if you're a alpha god-king to her for a year, you might become her worst enemy in the next year and get attacks of shame, lie, blaming. What do men do about this? Best option to me is that you never give your mind to anyone else, you guard your sense doors as the Buddha says. And finally a pretty significant quote relevant to this subject by the famous Stoic, the slave philosopher Epictetus:
If a person gave away your body to some passerby, you’d be furious. Yet, you hand over your mind to anyone who comes along, so they may abuse you, leaving it disturbed and troubled — have you no shame in that?
[deleted] 5y ago
Every word we choose to speak/write or not speak/write is at its core an act of "manipulation". The point of communication is to achieve some end result, be it persuasion or even killing boredom.
People criticize communication as manipulative when it appears to be against their best interest, just as people criticize all kinds of other common behaviors when they appear to be against their best interest.
This kind of hypocrisy is fundamental to the human condition. It is, itself, another kind of manipulation.
Humans gonna human.
The_Red_Choice 5y ago
This is extremely well said brother.
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bright-morningstar 5y ago
Very well put, that condition irritates me, I don’t know why but man expects much more virtuous baseline while there is so much “do good, be good” talks in the mouths of people. I guess this age is virtue signalling is at its finest. I think this hypocirsy is disgusting.
[deleted] 5y ago
Absolutely. The fact that the average person's life is more public than ever (social media etc.) wildly drives up the incentive to virtue signal. And also widens the gap between what people portray and what they actually are.
bright-morningstar 5y ago
Yeah. I’m actually resentful because I used to think everyone was lying and see them with my own eyes but then I felt bad/guilty to think bad about people after those virtue signalling totally ingrained to my brain. Our society is fucked up, I see my blue pilled friends, filled with games of media thoughts, truly pathetic, those guys are not aware that their thoughts are not theirs at all.
[deleted] 5y ago
I definitely share your frustration. It's like, are they willfully ignorant of what they're doing or is it just a defense mechanism?
I guess one charitable way to look at it is that life can be busy and even overwhelming, it's more fast paced and confusing than it's ever been in human history, and people try to adapt and cope as best they can.
INNASKILLZ2K18 5y ago
Very few people are knowledgeable, or masters at social dynamics, interactions, conversations, whatever you want to call it.
Most people just ramble, hoping for outcomes that never seem to come, so they appeal more to the idea of 'fate', or 'we just don't click', or we just 'hit it off'.
Being aware of what to do, how to say things, when to say them, attraction building, dynamics, isn't manipulation. Anyone who has bedded a woman, has seduced her in some way. Being game aware, is just being aware of what your doing, and why it works.
Manipulation, to me, is when you have one intention, but you utterly play another. Like a guy who wants to steal your wallet, but plays like he wants to be your most trustworthy new acquaintance.
When I seduce a woman, my intentions are pure, honest and congruent with what I'm doing. I may use indirect communication at times, but I never outright lie. Simply having control of what I'm doing, awareness around it, is a way of skillfully reaching my goal.
Once, again, though, we are told to be 'good men', don't use masculinity, don't use 'game', blah blah blah. I am doing everyone a favour. Women want and need their emotions tickled. Ok, so I have learnt how to do that.
I don't know, but fuck it. Women have been taught by older women for eons how to attract, manipulate and seduce those high status men they want. Fuck, blue pill is a massive manipulation by the feminine imperative. Wearing a cake tin full of makeup to convince someone you're a 9 when you're really a 5/6 is manipulation.
The world is a dangerous place. Be game aware, or get gamed.
PEACE-ImOut 5y ago
I was hooking up with a new girl a few weeks ago and she was giving strong LMR. I was cruising through it with the ease of a seasoned soldier. At one point she exclaimed, "oh my God, you have me under your spell now".
Pushing and pulling and escalating like a prize fighter slinging deadly combos and avoiding every counter punch. She was dazed. Her emotions were fully activated, and she was willing to hamster it away as magic to continue the dance.
bright-morningstar 5y ago
That's the exact thing that they dream about all these years growing up watching movies > " "oh my God, you have me under your spell now" "
Can imagine the situation. Once I had this with a girl, she asked me jokingly but in a serious way that if I'm a magical person because she feels imbued, and she thinks I'm the sexiest man in the world, I was just barely 6/10 maybe at that time, but the emotional spikes I was doing were truly top-game overwhelming, even I would gave myself to those, lol. I think emotional game is stronger than status, money, looks. That's how ugly men gets crazy sex all the time.
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riot2100 5y ago
Still improving my ability to cause said “emotional spikes”. I’ve read the sidebar and other important posts, any other tips?
wildtimes3 5y ago
I feel like OP is getting too much shit for this. I think there are two words missing that explain most of this.
"Sexual Tension"
You've never heard a woman say, "OMG this guy created sooo much sexual tension. What an asshole / prick / douche!!!" NEVER.
Good creators of sexual tension with women get laid. I'm not sure I have much to add to that sentence.
I remember one 9 (serious head turner). I was making out with her in my bed and my body language did NOT express that I was rushing to disrobe her, thus increasing the tension. Eventually (10min or so) she literally said, "I can't take the tension anymore", and got naked as FAST as she could and begged for sex.
Don't make me start to wonder about you guys. 101 shit right here
[deleted] 5y ago
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wildtimes3 5y ago
Edit to add: Sorry for linking.
The OP titled "Practical Guide to Getting Laid on the First Date" has some good thoughts on tension building.
There is no one answer to your question.
First let’s define tension. Tension is the feeling that there is consequences to a situation or interaction.
A lot of times indifference is one of the keys. If you’re on a date and the woman can sense that you don’t care if you sleep with her or not, that usually will create or desire or tension in her mind. What is she doing wrong? Why aren’t you coming on to her more overtly?
Push pull is very useful here. When you get a chance, ramp up the kino and then pull back sharply offering very little touch for a while.
If you’re doing it right you will eventually get an opportunity where she will mention or imply something sexual. The response to this is very situational… For example: if she says, “don’t think we’re going to sleep together, it’s only our second date“… You could sound amused and say: “ I was enjoying your company, and you were thinking about sex?!?” Done right she will blush and tension will build.
rus9384 5y ago
I'll tell you one thing. Machiavellians typically try to look emotionally intelligent. Moreover, some of them are. I'm 80/100 on mach-iv and most of questions there are about being cynical, not an asshole. I'm capable for compassion and so on.
Narcissists belong to an entirely another category. They have episodes when they thing they are too good for even logic or simply whine about themselves depending on what type of narcissists they are. Latter might be just a subclinical variant of histrionic disorder. Between those episodes they are not assholes/whiner, sure, but these episodes are very frequent. Ordinary people differ from them on frequency, not entirely.
Sadism is yet another thing and machiavellianism does not imply that, however I like to make jerk jokes. Internet trolls are an example of that and those guys being assholes to girls with no purpose (from a position of TRP guy) are an example too.
So, the question is more about being sensitive vs. being vulgar. Because everything else is simple.
wildtimes3 5y ago
Lolz. You are all over the place. This looks interesting.
IME, mostly, the histrionic dominates in social settings over the narcissist if they are loud enough. If not, they succumb to narc logic 1/2 as loud.
If we’re going past the triad into shit like sadism... don’t confuse it. These are people who have the triad practiced and perfected. And whether consensual or not they’re doing things far beyond this discussion. Or is sadism just mouth fucking with a ring gag now?
Seriously. There are drugs that can be stored in someone’s mouth, and breathed in someone’s else’s face that will make them an obedient zombie. The darkness of the world isn’t fake.
Guessing everyone can be exhausting. Unless they effect my outcomes, don’t care...enjoy your dinner.
All abnormal psychological conditions apply to all of us somewhat. Otherwise they wouldn’t be useful. When they affect outcomes and get in people’s way, that’s when we diagnose people.
Sensitive and vulgar. Ok. An interesting topic. Are we a narcissist loosing to a histrionic? Or are we a sadist? Zombie creating hooker?
rus9384 5y ago
I don't understand the last paragraph. I mean girls want feelings and they want sex. Of course, I do not suggest to lie about sexuality and emotionality. But for me both are good, so I'm balancing.
wildtimes3 5y ago
My last paragraph was not really there to be understood. I didn’t understand your last paragraph previously.
Sounds good. Sensitive. Vulgar.
I’m not sure how you are boiling things down to those two words being the question that needs answering.
We answer what question, and then what is simple?
rus9384 5y ago
Google fooled me. The word should be dirty, not vulgar, I suppose.
Well, I say, that emotional is quite in opposition with dirty. At least that's how media covers it and that's what most people think. Crack too much dirty (about sex, dicks, pussies, etc.) jokes and a girl might feel you are interested only in sex and don't like intimacy. Do otherwise and she might think you do not like sex much enough.
But everything depends on a girl, though. There is no one size fits all answer and people don't need it. You'd better find someone who likes your real preferences.
wildtimes3 5y ago
Are we talking general philosophy or pick up tactics?
In the bedroom most women love the hear the words “dirty” and “naughty”.
Dirty. Vulgar. Neither will get in your way of sex if your frame is correct.
rus9384 5y ago
I'd say they are the part of frame. And I think there is no correct frame. Just better or worse and that depends on the situation.
wildtimes3 5y ago
What women are a part of the frame? They exist as an input, just like everything else. The frame is ours to decide.
I would disagree and say there is absolutes, there is correct within reason. Scenario:
I’m on a boat with friends and a bunch of girls I haven’t met yet. I have an infinite pick of frames to lay down. There is something closer to a correct frame in that situation then not. It’s not all relative.
A boisterous needy frame doesn’t play out well for me in the situation. A quiet skilled frame would do much better. I’ve actually tested that one
rus9384 5y ago
I meant not women, but dirty jokes. Which signalize dirty behaviour. And attitudes. Which is a part of frame.
In that situation. That's what I meant! In another situation the same might not be the best. Correct in this sense is the same as better. But usually 'correct' means being better in any situation.
wildtimes3 5y ago
No worries. Dirty jokes should be told to women
wildtimes3 5y ago
Ok. Catching on I think. Jokes = timing
bright-morningstar 5y ago
Could you give me the link of the test you took for it?
rus9384 5y ago
There you get one.
bright-morningstar 5y ago
Yeah thx, I got 70.
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EkMard 5y ago
I know that you have tried to put much effort into writing this. But submissions to this subreddit have to be worth the time people will spend trying to get through them. This belongs to askTRP instead, where it would be a proper question.
From a male perspective, manipulation = emotionally intelligent conversation. They are the same thing. You use these skills to guide your interactions towards whatever goal you have, which could be being a means of catharsis for a friend, or advancing your sexual imperative with a potential mate.
AloofusMaximus 5y ago
There's no such thing as emotional intelligence. Most of what you were talking about can be summed up with "worry about yourself".
rpjruh 5y ago
There absolutely is. It’s your ability to read people and act accordingly. It’s the difference between a great boss and a terrible boss. One can see and meet the needs of his employees. The other is so self absorbed he can’t see his own toes. It applies to every interaction you have with people.
rpjruh 5y ago
Just like most things that have to do with what we consider a rational point of view. You’d know a good boss when you see one. It also relates to a bad boss. A good boss wouldn’t be passive aggressive or not be aggressive enough. That’s more of their capabilities to do their job. If we’re talking about a manager where their sole responsibility is to manage people, then emotional intelligence is required. It’s not a made up concept because it’s just a way to describe a person that is able to read and adapt to each person they meet. One test of this for example would be the ability to read expressions and accurately describe the emotion that person is feeling. A boss could be terrible at the mechanical functions of their job, but if they can keep people under them happy then atleast in that aspect, they are high in emotional intelligence.
It’s also a sort of intelligence because of the vast range of skill levels people possess in reading people. Some people were born being high in empathy and communicating with people, some people weren’t.
In my senior business class emotional intelligence was the main topic of discussion. It’s why people can be incredibly proficient and successful at their jobs but people hate working with them.
Examples of people with low emotional intelligence even though they are fantastic at their jobs:
The Hero- works his team way too hard, expects too much too fast, constantly communicates with his employees when they are at home with the expectation they are constantly available. In this situation even though his employees may be exceeding expectations, they get burnt out after a while.
Home run hitter- Runs his team before they can crawl, too much too soon. This person may be able to hit goals but doesn’t set the stepping stones for his team to consistently succeed.
Pessimist- speaks for itself. May be great at their job, but they constantly bring up what can go wrong.
Rebel- Constantly argues with authorities decisions. Can be fantastic at their job, but won’t last long if they constantly fight authority.
Bulldozer- usually the most proficient at their job but they have no regard for anyone else. They don’t listen to concerns or others point of views.
All of these people are very real examples of low emotional intelligence. The main causes being never developing empathy, failure to recognize those with power and poor self esteem. It ends up clouding their ability to work in a team setting.
The best bosses end up being the ones that meet goals set by the corporation while also keeping their employees happy. I’d personally say it’s incredibly admirable when people can achieve such a balance and can literally not be achieved by some people.
You are right that it’s something that can be improved upon rather then the pretty concrete restrictions other intelligence types have. I do think that for some people emotional intelligence can’t be improved upon because it mostly requires empathy and constant social monitoring. I have to think about that for a while.
That being said, in a peer reviewed article, emotional intelligence tests were related to a managers success. Also IQ is heavily related to the level of technical skills and usually require a certain level to even get into a job. EI is usually related to the people that fill leadership roles and can actually hold them successfully. People with Aspergers usually test high in one aspect of IQ but almost never perform well in EQ tests which have been an accurate predictor of success in a leadership role.
managers skill
rpjruh 5y ago
Iemotional intelligence
I would never be able to articulate the concepts fully so I’m hoping this can help.
AloofusMaximus 5y ago
It's a feel good term, that's really just an amalgamation of other things (most of which is just not being socially retarded). By what measure are you classifying someone as a "good boss"? Does emotional intelligence make someone more productive or profitable? I've had terrible bosses, and they were terrible because they weren't assertive, were passive/aggressive. Both of those things can be changed through training/inner game work.
Actual intelligence is largely immutable (if you're born mentally retarded there's almost nothing that can ever be done to prove actual/measurable intelligence). Whereas if you're a social retard, you can actually improve that through practice. Thus emotional intelligence isn't intelligence at all, it's a skill (in actuality it's several skills mashed together) .
wildtimes3 5y ago
Not trying to be pedantic, but I suppose this conversation is already pedantic by nature.
Intelligence is a skill. The ability to acquire skills is a skill. Your last sentence seems to doubt that. I'm not sure what you're basing that on.
noun: intelligence
the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.
Below a certain IQ, yes there is little chance for improvement, agreed. Above that threshold you can improve your intelligence measurably. I'm not sure any literature disagrees with that.
Maybe emotional intelligence is a feel good term composed of several skills. However, if you improve those skills, you improve your emotional intelligence.
noun: emotional intelligence
the capacity to be aware of, control, and express one's emotions, and to handle interpersonal relationships judiciously and empathetically.
Controlling visible emotions and physical emotional reaction is easily improved by meditation.