"The results of the study note the ‘queen bee syndrome’, in which powerful women at the top levels of management are not supportive of female managers attempting to climb the ladder."
I work on an all Male IT Team. Our days consist of dedicated work, with some talk and a pinch of cutting up mixed in.
My fiance is a supervisor for an all female work team. Tales of her days are like soap opera horror stories of gossip, back stabbing, manipulation and oneupmanship...
My company employes around 20 people. Only one is a female. Married. But really needs the money. And her work shows it. In the past we’ve employed about 4 females and it never worked out because women keep getting their emotions into work.
At my workplace, it is a chaotic environment. Chaotic in the sense, its high tension, because of the work. Its all work work work. This tension is only because we have a lot of work to be done. But everyone is focused and does their shit and is driven. No one is emotional.
When i graduated around 10 years ago, BP i was, i used to think my company needs to become more like these new age "open culture" but after my experience of such companies I think high male high tension are key to business growth.
Excuse me! You probably meant to use the terms "womanipulation" and "oneupwomanship." Please don't perpetuate the patriarchy around here, geez it's 2019.
I had a colleague at my previous job and she hated working with women. Too much bullshit. She preferred men because if men have a disagreement they argue/fight and then it's done. She was much older than me. Sorry to say I think men handle themselves like bitches now. Same backstabbing and all that crap because they don't have the guts to tell people what they think to their face.
My workplace is (literally) 99% women. I thrive in this environment, as I'm more or less a complete psychopath, am very considered and careful at every step, and am a (low tier) local celebrity whose presence is valuable for that reason alone.
other than myself, there is literally only 1 other man on the entire management team, and he's an absolute fucking bitch. Utterly pathetic, massive problems at home due to his inability to keep his fucking house in order. His cunt wife has ruined his children, and he's stood by and let it happen - hell, this moron got his daughter a job with us and her shit work ethic directly cost her department a drop of roughly 60% incoming profit over a 2 year period. Ridiculous.
Sociopaths have an easier time with the office politics because they are already extremely measured in all things so that to them dealing with utter nonsense is just another measured interaction the same as any other. Its also easier for a sociopath to emulate a pleasing emotional expression (since everything is fake anyways) instead of showing the appropriate contempt. Often the office drones suffer from alienation and/or numbing pharmaceuticals and so they don't stand a chance.
As recent as about twelve years ago I wouldn't have seen you coming. The way that it works is that you would be able to identify me as someone who could eventually figure you all out down to the smallest detail. So I would be a huge threat to you and so you would make a preemptive strike because you would have more experience. I would need to get ahead of the situation by either; 1) telling you that I know what you are and that don't care in itself or 2) full on going to war with timed and dated journal entries and the works. All in all though I don't think that working with a bitch guy, a bunch of clucking hens and a sociopath sounds all that great. That isn't worth fighting for and likely not a place where I'd ever be needed in the first place.
Thing is, I can't really go into detail as to why I have chosen my line of work without blowing my cover, but rest assured - if I could be getting what I get out of my current position in a more masculine environment I would absolutely be doing that. I will however admit that I somewhat enjoy the games.
I'd recommend highly against ever directly confronting people like myself. I've had to 'manage' a few over the years, and the second technique you mention is much more effective and safe to use, especially if you (like I), are willing to add other decidedly machavalian methods to the mix.
With people like me, their weakness lies in their arrogance, and their rage. Never show your hand to us, instead do your best to portray yourself as a useful idiot until the time comes when you are able to destroy them. I spent years in therapy, 'dealing with my problems', but in reality all I learnt was how to kill my own ego, control my emotions and thus be far more effective. Kind of ironic I suppose, but tbh the mental health care system is a fucking joke.
I'm well known as a bit of a savant, which is a reputation I go to great lengths to maintain in order to hide my true areas of strength. of course I can't say for certain that no one suspects anything, I have never once revealed my true self to anyone other than a single person, who I know would never betray me (again, can't go into detail).
Anyway, you sound like a clever guy, and I commend your conclusions.
I miss the days, when you acted that way, the colleagues would call you out and say "Don't act like a pussy".
When you had beef with someone, you would go straight to the point.
Let the steam off and then you could continue to work on the current task.
Now you have to focus more on office politics than on actual work...
I've mostly worked in male-dominated or male-exclusive places and when I hear about mostly female workplaces, it's just a completely different world. Drama, drama and more drama.
I also agree, I worked in the Automotive field most of my life, first as a mechanic and later on in the equipment service end as a Manager. All male for the most of it until recently when more women entered the field. My partner became the Chief Operating Officer at her company after a brief stint as head of HR. The stories she came home with were better than any Soap Opera. Women be "Bitches" at work where as we men settle our differences for the most part up front with each other or after work at the bar over a few beers or sometimes not (fisticuffs after work in back of the building)
Smart guys and smart organizations are very careful about putting chicks in supervisory roles. Smart guys are also wary of having female managers, as that can be a career dead end. One of my own early career mentors was a woman and she was great, but she was also very unusual. She would also complain about putting energy into young women, most of whom did not sustain early ambition. Most women have a kid and then lose their early ambition. Most men who have kids work more and their ambition increases. Being at home with a baby is also not very fun or masculine, so guys prefer to work more instead.
I had a female manager for about 5 years, outperformed everyone in the organization after about my first year, stellar feedback and reviews constantly - not so much as a sniff at promotion.
After she left, I was moved up twice within 15 months. Funnily enough, the entire reason she left was because our head office began to favor my opinion over most others, and I made it clear that I did not support her professional methods.
She wasn't a bad sort, she did work hard and I never held anything against her. She was doing what she felt she needed to in order to get ahead - but I don't support those who refuse to support me.
I've worked for several women. One didn't seem to think about herself as a woman and just worked. I showed up and we'd collaborate and we were productive. We had lunch occasionally and we'd talk about food.
The other was super-progressive. She also put microphones in the ceiling of the work room and monitored our conversations on a laptop at home, and she is now in prison for embezzlement and wiretapping.
The other was super-progressive. She also put microphones in the ceiling of the work room and monitored our conversations on a laptop at home, and she is now in prison for embezzlement and wiretapping.
Female leadership is unnatural and rarely works. I hate hate hate working under a woman. No man should ever have to have to deal with a woman telling him what to do unless he is hired to be her personal assistant or butler.
Having a female boss is just another of the little demoralizing indignities that a 21st century man has to face on a daily basis. They are so numerous and constant that we don't even notice anymore.
I worked for a woman as a field biologist in Alaska for a couple summers. I will never voluntarily work under a woman again. Constant melodrama, resentment and gossiping while we’re in the wild for weeks at a time in a small team. She didn’t believe in strict “hierarchies”, and thus wouldn’t take on the strict authority and responsibility she needed to make the team feel secure about their direction and purpose. She was more focused on making sure everyone “felt” included and happy, which just ended up making everyone miserable.
I can confirm that. My partner who was put in charge by the owner of the company (also female), complains about the owner doing that exact same thing which undermines my partner. My partner would set the rules and boundaries and the women under would complain to the owner. The owner would come back to my partner with those exact words. She just wanted to "make sure everyone “felt” included and happy". It became an impossible situation.
She was more focused on making sure everyone “felt” included and happy
Woman's natural group dynamics in action. The purpose of the male dominance hierarchy is to establish a pecking order that allows the group to function and rewards those at the top, while reducing dangerous and counterproductive confrontation between group members. Men move up the dominance hierarchy by displaying competence (specific competence depends on the context, could be physical strength, leadership/popularity, job competence, etc.)
Males at the top of the hierarchy get increased mating opportunities. Females have no need for this because they can simply choose which men they want to mate with and their attractiveness to males is purely physical. Their group dynamics are all about enforcing uniformity and compliance on all of the females in order to increase their collective power, since they are so much weaker and less competent than men individually. Overly intense displays of emotion (OMG I love you BFF), "inclusiveness," and extreme attention to everyone's emotional state are meant to solidify the group. Gossiping and backstabbing are used cut others down to size (crabs in a bucket) so that they don't get too big for their britches.
My female group head is actually kinda great. Never gossipy, will chew you out if you step out of line, drinks as much as the boys, and conforms well with the culture.
Never married/no children. Has a 3m home in upper east side. Probably brings in a couple mil a year for herself. The rest of the team are men and we do not mess with her and generally keep the alpha bro shit to ourselves.
Yeah? I'm willing to bet she displays a higher than normal influence from prenatal testosterone than most women. That's usually how it goes. It's why all the UFC women look masculine.
Truedemocracy4 5y ago
Obvious to anyone who has worked with women. No one discriminates more against women workers than other women
NorthEasternNomad 5y ago
I work on an all Male IT Team. Our days consist of dedicated work, with some talk and a pinch of cutting up mixed in.
My fiance is a supervisor for an all female work team. Tales of her days are like soap opera horror stories of gossip, back stabbing, manipulation and oneupmanship...
riggedved 5y ago
My company employes around 20 people. Only one is a female. Married. But really needs the money. And her work shows it. In the past we’ve employed about 4 females and it never worked out because women keep getting their emotions into work.
At my workplace, it is a chaotic environment. Chaotic in the sense, its high tension, because of the work. Its all work work work. This tension is only because we have a lot of work to be done. But everyone is focused and does their shit and is driven. No one is emotional.
When i graduated around 10 years ago, BP i was, i used to think my company needs to become more like these new age "open culture" but after my experience of such companies I think high male high tension are key to business growth.
AgntMichaelScarn 5y ago
Excuse me! You probably meant to use the terms "womanipulation" and "oneupwomanship." Please don't perpetuate the patriarchy around here, geez it's 2019.
/s
TheStumblingWolf 5y ago
I had a colleague at my previous job and she hated working with women. Too much bullshit. She preferred men because if men have a disagreement they argue/fight and then it's done. She was much older than me. Sorry to say I think men handle themselves like bitches now. Same backstabbing and all that crap because they don't have the guts to tell people what they think to their face.
nofilmynofucky 5y ago
My workplace is (literally) 99% women. I thrive in this environment, as I'm more or less a complete psychopath, am very considered and careful at every step, and am a (low tier) local celebrity whose presence is valuable for that reason alone.
other than myself, there is literally only 1 other man on the entire management team, and he's an absolute fucking bitch. Utterly pathetic, massive problems at home due to his inability to keep his fucking house in order. His cunt wife has ruined his children, and he's stood by and let it happen - hell, this moron got his daughter a job with us and her shit work ethic directly cost her department a drop of roughly 60% incoming profit over a 2 year period. Ridiculous.
destraht 5y ago
Sociopaths have an easier time with the office politics because they are already extremely measured in all things so that to them dealing with utter nonsense is just another measured interaction the same as any other. Its also easier for a sociopath to emulate a pleasing emotional expression (since everything is fake anyways) instead of showing the appropriate contempt. Often the office drones suffer from alienation and/or numbing pharmaceuticals and so they don't stand a chance.
As recent as about twelve years ago I wouldn't have seen you coming. The way that it works is that you would be able to identify me as someone who could eventually figure you all out down to the smallest detail. So I would be a huge threat to you and so you would make a preemptive strike because you would have more experience. I would need to get ahead of the situation by either; 1) telling you that I know what you are and that don't care in itself or 2) full on going to war with timed and dated journal entries and the works. All in all though I don't think that working with a bitch guy, a bunch of clucking hens and a sociopath sounds all that great. That isn't worth fighting for and likely not a place where I'd ever be needed in the first place.
[grammar]
nofilmynofucky 5y ago
You make valid points.
Thing is, I can't really go into detail as to why I have chosen my line of work without blowing my cover, but rest assured - if I could be getting what I get out of my current position in a more masculine environment I would absolutely be doing that. I will however admit that I somewhat enjoy the games.
I'd recommend highly against ever directly confronting people like myself. I've had to 'manage' a few over the years, and the second technique you mention is much more effective and safe to use, especially if you (like I), are willing to add other decidedly machavalian methods to the mix.
With people like me, their weakness lies in their arrogance, and their rage. Never show your hand to us, instead do your best to portray yourself as a useful idiot until the time comes when you are able to destroy them. I spent years in therapy, 'dealing with my problems', but in reality all I learnt was how to kill my own ego, control my emotions and thus be far more effective. Kind of ironic I suppose, but tbh the mental health care system is a fucking joke.
I'm well known as a bit of a savant, which is a reputation I go to great lengths to maintain in order to hide my true areas of strength. of course I can't say for certain that no one suspects anything, I have never once revealed my true self to anyone other than a single person, who I know would never betray me (again, can't go into detail).
Anyway, you sound like a clever guy, and I commend your conclusions.
napsterpepper 5y ago
I work in IT too and most of the drama is caused by weak men here, some girls too much mostly weak men.
BittyMitty 5y ago
I miss the days, when you acted that way, the colleagues would call you out and say "Don't act like a pussy".
When you had beef with someone, you would go straight to the point.
Let the steam off and then you could continue to work on the current task.
Now you have to focus more on office politics than on actual work...
Imperator_Red 5y ago
It's almost like this is just woman's true nature revealed...
RightHandWolf 5y ago
Seriously? Next, you'll probably expect me to believe college towns like Austin, Texas have a problem with underage drinking. I mean, really! /s
Anacondainahonda 5y ago
I've mostly worked in male-dominated or male-exclusive places and when I hear about mostly female workplaces, it's just a completely different world. Drama, drama and more drama.
NorthEasternNomad 5y ago
Agreed.
And these tales are coming from a woman. And it's still all catty behavior and gossip. Shes not even trying to downplay it.
surfsusa 5y ago
I also agree, I worked in the Automotive field most of my life, first as a mechanic and later on in the equipment service end as a Manager. All male for the most of it until recently when more women entered the field. My partner became the Chief Operating Officer at her company after a brief stint as head of HR. The stories she came home with were better than any Soap Opera. Women be "Bitches" at work where as we men settle our differences for the most part up front with each other or after work at the bar over a few beers or sometimes not (fisticuffs after work in back of the building)
yzpv 5y ago
Wow that’s trashy as fuck
chadwickofwv 5y ago
I bet she is downplaying it.
NorthEasternNomad 5y ago
Judging by how tired and frustrated she is most nights, probably
OutsideTheCage3 5y ago
Smart guys and smart organizations are very careful about putting chicks in supervisory roles. Smart guys are also wary of having female managers, as that can be a career dead end. One of my own early career mentors was a woman and she was great, but she was also very unusual. She would also complain about putting energy into young women, most of whom did not sustain early ambition. Most women have a kid and then lose their early ambition. Most men who have kids work more and their ambition increases. Being at home with a baby is also not very fun or masculine, so guys prefer to work more instead.
Hat tip to @rolfdegen for the title.
nofilmynofucky 5y ago
I had a female manager for about 5 years, outperformed everyone in the organization after about my first year, stellar feedback and reviews constantly - not so much as a sniff at promotion.
After she left, I was moved up twice within 15 months. Funnily enough, the entire reason she left was because our head office began to favor my opinion over most others, and I made it clear that I did not support her professional methods.
She wasn't a bad sort, she did work hard and I never held anything against her. She was doing what she felt she needed to in order to get ahead - but I don't support those who refuse to support me.
youngzari 5y ago
The last line was everything.
LeChatTerrible 5y ago
I've worked for several women. One didn't seem to think about herself as a woman and just worked. I showed up and we'd collaborate and we were productive. We had lunch occasionally and we'd talk about food.
The other was super-progressive. She also put microphones in the ceiling of the work room and monitored our conversations on a laptop at home, and she is now in prison for embezzlement and wiretapping.
chadwickofwv 5y ago
Wow, at least she got her proper reward.
halfback910 5y ago
Yeah. That took a hard left turn. Jesus Christ.
Watchingculturefade 5y ago
I love how bigoted Reddit is
​
Every time I come to TRP and see the "Quarantine" sign, I realize how pathetic Progressives are.
​
Its pretty comical to me that they don't see it and are surprised at the massive backlash against their bigotry
GoingToMakeItBrahs 5y ago
Women hate women
Imperator_Red 5y ago
Female leadership is unnatural and rarely works. I hate hate hate working under a woman. No man should ever have to have to deal with a woman telling him what to do unless he is hired to be her personal assistant or butler.
Having a female boss is just another of the little demoralizing indignities that a 21st century man has to face on a daily basis. They are so numerous and constant that we don't even notice anymore.
Potomato 5y ago
Amen brother, they often get too personal and often look for ways to prove themselves that they are in charge. I had three female supers, all trash.
BACONisKEWLEST 5y ago
I worked for a woman as a field biologist in Alaska for a couple summers. I will never voluntarily work under a woman again. Constant melodrama, resentment and gossiping while we’re in the wild for weeks at a time in a small team. She didn’t believe in strict “hierarchies”, and thus wouldn’t take on the strict authority and responsibility she needed to make the team feel secure about their direction and purpose. She was more focused on making sure everyone “felt” included and happy, which just ended up making everyone miserable.
surfsusa 5y ago
I can confirm that. My partner who was put in charge by the owner of the company (also female), complains about the owner doing that exact same thing which undermines my partner. My partner would set the rules and boundaries and the women under would complain to the owner. The owner would come back to my partner with those exact words. She just wanted to "make sure everyone “felt” included and happy". It became an impossible situation.
Imperator_Red 5y ago
Woman's natural group dynamics in action. The purpose of the male dominance hierarchy is to establish a pecking order that allows the group to function and rewards those at the top, while reducing dangerous and counterproductive confrontation between group members. Men move up the dominance hierarchy by displaying competence (specific competence depends on the context, could be physical strength, leadership/popularity, job competence, etc.)
Males at the top of the hierarchy get increased mating opportunities. Females have no need for this because they can simply choose which men they want to mate with and their attractiveness to males is purely physical. Their group dynamics are all about enforcing uniformity and compliance on all of the females in order to increase their collective power, since they are so much weaker and less competent than men individually. Overly intense displays of emotion (OMG I love you BFF), "inclusiveness," and extreme attention to everyone's emotional state are meant to solidify the group. Gossiping and backstabbing are used cut others down to size (crabs in a bucket) so that they don't get too big for their britches.
jzplayinggames 5y ago
My female group head is actually kinda great. Never gossipy, will chew you out if you step out of line, drinks as much as the boys, and conforms well with the culture.
Never married/no children. Has a 3m home in upper east side. Probably brings in a couple mil a year for herself. The rest of the team are men and we do not mess with her and generally keep the alpha bro shit to ourselves.
donkey_democrat 5y ago
Yeah? I'm willing to bet she displays a higher than normal influence from prenatal testosterone than most women. That's usually how it goes. It's why all the UFC women look masculine.
ThrowFader 5y ago
deleted ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.2550 ^^^What ^^^is ^^^this?
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