In most relationships, women end up controlling men.
They do it by taking the "judge role".
Such as, they take control of the frame or reference on good or wrong, what’s proper and improper and by setting the standards of behavior.
Men rarely challenge her frame, which basically means: they end up playing by her rules. To enforce her rules on the day to day life, which is the focus of this post, she uses the following compliance tools:
- Drama and nagging (set the priorities of what’s important)
- Blaming & criticism (browbeats him on the defensive)
- Shaming (the compliance superpower)
With these three tools she becomes the relationship leader, which allows her to:
- Task him (so he can provide and make her happy)
Here are a few examples on how each work:
Nagging
Nagging is a long term, semi-permanent behavioral changing tool. It works in part through conditioning of reward and punishments (behaviorism): do what I like, and you make me happy (and get the cookie); don’t do what I like, and you get nagging.
Eventually, he internalizes the rules.
Video example:
https://youtu.be/RwYp6ze4Ips?t=73s
Drama
While nagging is a long term behavioral modification tool, drama is concentrated, focused, laser beam compliance tool.
If nagging sets the priorities of what’s important, drama sets the priorities of what’s urgent.
Nagging says "you're not OK", while drama says "what you are doing right now is not OK, move your ass now to change it".
Women put a lot of emotions and passion into the drama, and they do so with a self-righteous attitude that screams "I'm right". Since men do not engage in drama and are not used to that over-emotional (and aggressive) type of communication, they fail to see it for what it is: a compliance tool. And they act (for her).
Video example:
https://youtu.be/H7CgCQIP0WU?t=20s
Shaming
Shame is the superpower of the judge role.
It’s a tool of psychological aggression, torture and compliance.
Shame leverages our need to be worthy of love and basic respect (Brene Brown). Shame punishes us with scorn, isolation and by stoking our own fears of unworthiness.
When women use shame in a relationship, they attack something that every man feels deeply inside: what it (supposedly) means to be a man.
Some of the most powerful attacks on manhood are:
- Unsuccessful
- Weak
- Impotent
- "Pussy"
Shame is is turbo-charged when, as it's often the case, the whole society stands behind it.
This is the case for weakness for example, as a man is not supposed to be weak. But it's also the case of providing for the family, or protecting women.
Men internalize those values and beliefs, which allow women to push his manhood thumbscrews without even sounding nasty (albeit they sometimes still do like in the example below).
Here is an example:
https://youtu.be/LCHPSo79rB4?t=475s
She didn't even need to say "you're not a real man if you don't provide", but she didn't need to: he already had internalized that rule from society.
curiouschipmunk1010 5y ago
It's good to be aware of these things, but the main article how-to-respond in these situation assume that women are willing to engage to civilize logical articulation and admit fault willingly...
It's garbage
​
centaursg 5y ago
Throw ALL the logical articulation into the trash. I`m exaggerating of course. But my personal experience says they are not willing to have or dont-care about having logical explanations. May be they dont have the capacity since emotions would have taken over. But no DEERing. There is a reason why we see "STFU" so many times in the sidebar material.
CoinMemo 5y ago
This is why it is important that you maintain your frame and not allow yourself to get rattled by other people's manipulation tactics.
SKRedPill 5y ago
This is part of the betaization process and apart from a few low value behaviours in most beta husbands, it is entirely politics of frame. Underneath the loving vibes and feels, our hormones mask the reality that both alpha fucks and beta bucks are essentially selfish in nature and are devoid of virtue.
And this is the most important thing - the more she wins, the more she stars setting the narrative for the relationship, the more it validates your low value in her eyes, and the greater the contempt she will have for you. This will, it WILL, result in her eventually losing attraction for you and moving on.
The moment you agree to the trial is when you have already lost, because you will not win. Her ego and emotions at that moment are only in a mood to inflict pain and validate herself. Be aware that her pain body (yes, women have it, I've seen it, often) usually comes to life and never allow yourself to get swept into that. Egos when triggered are utterly self righteous and rationalize their actions away, because if they're wrong, it just invalidated and diminished them. This is threatening and painful to the ego - very few women have any strength to let go of their egos. If it goes down, what's left of you? (or so it thinks).
You can be rest assured that an emotional ego will do everything to win. For all the talk of male ego, men tend to be more objective and truth oriented and this makes it easier to let go of their egos than women's sollipsistic nature allows them to.
I had an ex who was ax-crazy in running her "courtroom". I know what I'm talking about. If you let her have her way, she will create enough pain to kill the relationship.
Even if she doesn't overtly make your life miserable, she'll try to domesticate you into compliance. Unfortunately, a sanitized piece of life is a sterilized piece of life, and your mental castration will kill the raw, wild energy that triggers her sexual attraction and respect to you.
So what's the solution? The answer lies in your own growth and self awareness. You need to own your shit, you need to stay stoic and not fall into her well of pain, you need to stop wondering what she needs and make her do what you need and what you know she needs. You need wisdom to bring your wild horse under your command without castrating it - that way the raw power is ever available the moment you decide it's needed. You need to proactively set the standards for raising the kids. You need to let your family know that you are fully aware of what you're doing, and they should respect that.
A cat might make a cute pet, but only a tiger is held in awe.
If you can use your relationships as an opportunity to get more aware, stronger and wiser, you have won the war, even if you lose the battles. People only shake you to the extent they can get away with it. The more needy you are for them, the more they can have power over you. Do not let your sun become her moon. A man's emotional state that comes from a point of abundance is not something that needs his woman to make it what it is - it is energized by it's own energy. She only has power over what you commit to her. When you do not commit anything, she's powerless.
Only when a man realizes this does he even realize how much power he had the whole time. Put the right price on it, sex is cheap, commitment is not.
Wisdom, not castration, is the solution to managing your wild animal well. As a man you are already wired for wisdom more naturally than a woman or a child. Use it. Be a wise tiger, not a foolish neutered cat.
If your relationship doesn't survive that, it wasn't authentic to begin with. It's selfishness and ego could not hide forever, and eventually the truth had to come out. Better to be honest with the red pill and swallow it once, than to be deceived for life and ever frustrated.
zaze12 5y ago
I have stuff to do:
I have to work I have to workout *I have to study for work and to open a business
I have an LTR who understand these things and she know that I can't stand too much girl's problem so she try at her best to help me in what I'm doing. If not,she can go because my priorities are the listed above. If you have stuff to do and priorities,nobody will be a real problem. This is how I deal with people try to control me.
lux_7 5y ago
Yeah that's a very good one as well, great approach, I like it a lot.
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WuTangAyri 5y ago
Always always maintain frame. Realise that half the shit women say is not fucking true and is just there to bait you into her frame.
IT IS ALWAYS SHIT TALKING. IF YOU WERE DOING SOMETHING WRONG YOU WOULD KNOW BEFORE SHE TELLS YOU
OfficerWade 5y ago
In my own words I call her bullshit for what is, bullshit. If my biggest fear at this point is fear of abandonment I don’t push this person away. I ask for a timeout.
SeasonedRP 5y ago
The article provides nice, whitebread, safe advice that is sure not to offend the most radical of third-wave feminists and their tradcon counterparts while providing a semblance of a pro-male viewpoint. After all, we've learned from pillars of authority such as Oprah and Dr. Phil that communication is the key to a good relationship, and no one can quarrel with staying calm and holding frame. While not offending, the article does not provide anything of value and overlooks the key weapon a man has to deal with a problem woman.
When the woman is nagging, creating drama, or shaming, the article encourages you to engage with her, but to do so in calm logical manner. Engaging with her is actually the worst thing you can do. If you engage, you're in her frame. It's what she wants. When the article lists suggested responses to various actions, it omits what happens after those responses, leading the reader to assume all is fine once a rational approach is taken. It won't be. No matter what you say, she'll continue to engage and escalate the argument until you withdraw, which is what you should do in the first place: withdraw attention. Don't reward bad behavior, and engaging with her is rewarding bad behavior. Nagging and drama can be dealt with by withholding attention from her. Both are quite common in a relationship, and ignoring her until she behaves better can be quite effective.
Once things get to the point of shaming, you're done. You need to withdraw, but not temporarily. If she's attacking your manhood, you need to move on. You aren't going to fix the problem once her behavior gets this bad.
Articles like this never mention the most powerful weapon a man has to handle relationship problems, and that is dread. You have the power to withhold commitment if you aren't being treated well. That is the one thing the relationship advice industry doesn't want you to know, and any purported pro-male relationship expert who doesn't mention it should be suspect. No one tells you that you have other options; the premise of most relationship advice is that you're lucky to have this woman and can never find another one, and need to hold on to her at all costs. No one tells you that you don't have to commit or stay committed to someone who mistreats you. But whether it is called dread, withholding attention, disengaging, or some other term, that is your number one tool. Articles like this presume that all relationships are worth saving, when in fact most aren't. Just move on and find someone who treats you well, and conduct yourself in a manner that will minimize the chance of excessive nagging or drama.
lux_7 5y ago
I don't fully agree with the withdrawal.
Extinguishing behavior by failing to address it works, but not in my opinion not so well during drama -leads to further escalation- and when you need to address issues heads on -you need to lay down the law there-.
Withdrawal is also similar to "stonewalling" and Gottman's research has proven it precipitates relationships (it's one of the so called "four horsemen of the apocalypse).
However I liked your comment and you make a great point that not all relationships can or should be salvaged. I wouldn't use it as an open threat, but walking out and starting from a clean slate is indeed an option that should always be in someone's mind.
swampbastard1415 5y ago
I try to always use the 9 year old rule. If a 9 year old called u weak, judged u, or made a funny joke, or said pretty much anything you would react the same - pat the kid on the head and remark “oh your cute”.
WhatDreamsHaveGone 5y ago
> https://youtu.be/LCHPSo79rB4?t=475s
Jesus Christ those ears... somehow makes his fawning "God I love that you can share that though, that's so powerful" even cringier. She actually talks some sense in that vid too.
lux_7 5y ago
LOL my thoughts exactly. She wouldn't last long in a relationship with any man who has any shred of a backbone and self-respect
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teveza11 5y ago
MGTOW is surrendering and for the weak.
bakamoney 5y ago
I got the shame one for not white knighting for another girl.
Fuck I massively failed that one lmao
lux_7 5y ago
I wish I could have witnessed that -not your failure of course, the shaming part :D-. And props on openly admitting the mistake :).
teveza11 5y ago
Everyone here is quarreling about the SPECIFICS about how to maintain frame and pass these tests but they are missing the forrest.
Modern men are so weak and cowardly or they wouldn't have to deal with these games to begin with.
GroovyLyfe 5y ago
The 3 methods of controlling, perfectly describe how an extremely narcissistic, mother let say, will exert control over her family. I've seen it with my own eyes and been absolutely baffled that people just take that shit but onslaught is so relentless I guess.
This didnt make any sense to me until viewed from the frame of narcissim, them it all clicked.
squareone12 5y ago
Yep, I’ve seen it with my mum as well.
lux_7 5y ago
True, narcissists will also use some or all of the above.
metallicdrama 5y ago
I always just verbally agree and do whatever I want anyways. Rinse and repeat.
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