It's frequently been mentioned in this sub that sales is an extremely red-pill career path. As someone who's worked in sales for awhile, I'll briefly drop concepts in sales that I found wildly helpful in the world of dating and sex. I'll try to keep this as concise as possible.
Note 1 - Have a Good Product
Pretty self explanatory. If you have a shitty product(you) it will infinitely be harder to close(sex). You can still sell a shitty product, but in the world of sales that creates alot of churn (one time sales/one night stands) and you'll constantly be looking for the next sucker instead of creating repeat business (plates).
With that being said, you don't need a perfect product. Just "Good enough". If you're fit enough (other people should compliment your physique), move on to something else like social skills (I'm looking at you, /fit/).
Don't believe me? Look at the code for most software products. You'll see traces of spaghetti everywhere but the damn thing works and solves a business purpose. Or look at large businesses - alot of fat that can be trimmed but it's profitable so who cares.
Note 2 - Have a Good Pipeline
Salesmen work on quotas. Every 3 months, I have to sell X amount of product or I don't get my full salary. A commonly agreed truth among sales professionals is that pipeline is 40-50% of the business. Pipeline is basically a route from open to close in a sale. When meeting a client for the first time, if they express interest in your product, you can add them to the beginning of your pipeline. During a negotiation, the client could be somewhere towards the middle.
Apply that to your dating life. If you have 4 girls in the pipeline (Maybe 2 you just opened, 2 you're closing soon) it will be much harder to fail than just focusing all your effort on 1 girl. Maybe you drop the ball with 1 girl, and maybe the second becomes a lesbian halfway through your interactions. Shit happens. I personally run a 4x dating pipeline (talking to/dating 4 girls at once). This naturally creates abundance mentality.
Note 3 - Close Rate can Compete With Pipeline
If you have a average close rate (like me), 4-6x will be good for you. If you have a high close rate (naturals/chads), maybe a 2x will be sufficient. There is no universal rule on how your pipeline should be managed, there are only recommendations and over time with effort you will find out how many girls you should be talking to at once. Feel free to adjust as your business needs change.
Note 4 - Thick Skin
Most beginner sales reps start off in a inside sales role. In my area they have to make anywhere between 50-150 calls a day on clients. Clients will tell you to fuck off. Clients will sometimes hate your company. Clients will sometimes hate salespeople. You have to put 100% in each interaction for maximum success. "Have the memory of a goldfish" is a quote used by a famous sales trainer.
Apply that to daygame/nightgame. If you get blown off by a girl try your best to not let the negative experience of that interaction leak into how you interact with the next girl. It gets easier over time. Just push. I personally had to do 85 calls a day. If someone picked up, I sent them to a field salesman. My quota every month was 3 closed deals. That's about 2500 opens for 3 closes.
Note 5 - Stop Selling
Pretty straightforward here's an example. I have a client interested in a $30MM product. I heard from their IT department that they need $5M in upgrades but that's out of the scope of the original contract. During signing day knowing nothing else I would rather get a $30MM signature than risk more delays for a $35MM signature.
You have to know when to stop selling. A good example of this application in dating is Tinder. Build the rapport, build the attraction, then go for the number. Too much banter she will lose interest and see you as a dancing monkey. With time, you will figure out when and how to do this more comfortably. Just keep trying.
Note 6 - Low Hanging Fruit
New field sales reps are usually given a couple hundred accounts to put all of their focus in, and then told their quota. It's important to gauge your territory, your industry, and find the accounts that could give you the highest return for the most minimal investment.
Apply that to dating. If I had limited time, I'd choose a 7 who's easy to talk to over a 9 who's got the personality of a brick. Unless I really wanted to fuck the 9.
A wider application goes to developing the product (you). 1 hour at a gym 3 times a week (3 hours total) will bring in significantly higher returns than a 40 hour Photoshop course that you use to make your tinder pictures look better.
Note 7 - Compete When Necessary
This is something new, hungry reps fuck up. Let's say there's 2 deals to work on. One's a software deal, but you're competing with Microsoft and Google. Potential Payout 500k. The second is a IT Outsourcing deal, but you are competing with a shit tier company that fails its clients alot. Potential Payout 200k. Your quota is 100k.
It's common knowledge that guys have to compete for the hottest chicks but always competing is going to tire you out over time and lower your win-rate. In a sense, you are always competing for girls. But if you can choose between two attractive girls, and one is surrounded by chads while the other only has a few orbiters, which one are you more likely to close?
Note 8 - Invest in Yourself/Balance
The cheesiest tip, but keeping a balance between R&D(investing in yourself) and Sales(women) will keep you balanced and grounded. Date yourself every once in a while, try a new hairstyle, try new clothing, new workouts, etc. I have seen guys in TRP (but mostly pua/seddit) get absorbed with investing in others (women) and live loser lifestyles with high lays.
For a wider application, let's maybe say relationships, financials, and health are important to you (they are for most). Too many guys in this shit put way too much into relationships, and only one subsegment, sex. If you care about sex that much I would argue to just find a high paying job (such as sales) and pay 200-400 for a hooker every day for the rest of your life. Average enterprise reps made 200k last year, a hooker every day would cost about 110k. There are probably even more efficient ways of getting sex.
It's important to cultivate family and friend relationships too.
Note 9 - Health
Alot of guys in high pressure industries are strung out on coke, addy, coffee (wears out your adrenal gland), and frequent travel (so they eat alot of junk food). If you're in shit health probably fix that first because nothing will matter when you look like you're 60 at 40. (Unless you have fuck you money).
If you need a boost find something that works for you. I have a friend who does caffeine on 8 weeks off 4 weeks. I usually don't touch it. Again, find what works for you.
Note 10 - Addiction to Success
Ask any salesperson there's nothing like the rush when the contract gets signed. But the 200 calls you make to get to that point are unrewarding and dull. During your low days, visualizing what success will look like for you and your life is a great method to get you through. Time is always ticking. If not for a quota, you only have 20-30 years of youth to use.
Close
It's a grind, but it gets easier as long as you don't give up.
Good luck, and good selling.
EDIT: One last note - feel free to disagree with any points mentioned here. Like in sales, the only thing that matters is results. If 7/10 of them help you but you still get great results more power to you. Only results matter and I'm just sharing my perspective.
FemtoG 5y ago
Everyone young should try sales. Why?
You'll be making garbage income anyway. Might as well try sales and potentially make 2-10x what your peers are making. If you fail, so what? Its poverty vs. poverty either way
alxjones 5y ago
I think you might have convinced me to quit coffee not that it was a problem, just like, who needs it? not me. I'm light as a feather without it anyway
Boater_Guy 5y ago
Sales guy here, spot on comparison. The skills that make you a successful business person translate perfectly to picking up woman.
"Win fast and lose faster" is the motto I live by. She's into you? Great, close her out and take her home. She's a royal bitch? Have abundance mental and go on to the next one. Same can be said for closing deals.
Happy selling fellow brothers.
Paladin2903 5y ago
This is a great post. Extremely spot on. Sales will make a man out of you, assuming you stay in it long enough, and really apply yourself. After all, this is the modern version of hunting. It isn’t for the weak-minded. You’ll go from meek, unconfident and weary, to balls of steel.
You’ve got to be aggressive (but not too aggressive), confident, have a healthy ego, an ability to let shit slide off of you like a Teflon shield, a backbone, and the balls to drop potential clients when you feel you’re not being respected — or the person simply isn’t worth the trouble (too entitled/too much attitude).
All of this translates perfectly in the dating game.
[deleted] 5y ago
"assuming you stay in it long enough" very good addition - I was fired from my first sales job for under performing. I've also been thrown out of a client office for being too aggressive. You will go to balls of steel if you put the effort forward.
[deleted] 5y ago
It does depend.. anyone who is a bit to confident.. you’ve lost me , I can spot a douchebag from 1000 feet
halfback910 5y ago
As a professional on the other side of the table (buying, vendor management, supply chain), 1-4 seemed pretty standard. I was in love with you at #5. I wish more salesmen understood this. I had an issue where a supplier for a product we use in manufacturing (let’s call it fabric) jacked up their prices. I reached out to a few other suppliers immediately. The responses were in the same ballpark except for one supplier who came up with a pretty novel solution. They figured out a way to combine drop shipping and consigned inventory so that we could capture the cost benefits of shipping direct from the factory. Fantastic. To me, that’s excellent salesmanship: coming up with solutions to my problems that I didn’t consider.
I told them we can move estimated 95% of the annual usage (of which they were aware) over immediately.
“Well what about the other 5%?”
“We’ll just keep that with the current vendor who has this stocked in a warehouse to tide us over in between container shipments so we don’t have a stockout.”
“Well, we can stock it in a warehouse for you too. We just need to do this thing, this other thing, and find out this, then we can move forward.”
I basically just said “No, let’s move the 95% over now, worry about the 5% later.” Which is what I thought they would have wanted too, rather than delay everything and risk a derail over a small fraction of the book of business.
The dynamics of sales vs. buying is a lot like the dynamics of men vs. women. Salesmen want to be polygamous. Yes, they want the 10/10 client that will move large volume for high margin. But they also want the 9/10 that will move large volume for less margin. And the 8/10 that will move small volume for high margin. And the 7/10 that will move small volume for small margin and so on and so on. As the strategic sourcer representing the best interests of my employer, I don’t care about any vendor besides the best vendor. I want the very best vendor and the rest can pound sand until the next time I bid it out. That’s hypergamy in a nutshell.
There are more similarities between the behavior of a sourcer/buyer and a woman:
1: I don’t care what you did for me a year ago. What are you doing for me now?
2: Well, of course I expect big, strong companies like Chad Comcast and Chad Verizon to compete for me even though my business is worse run and a fraction of their size. I deserve it because I’m the one giving the business.
3: Punishing perceived transgressions by withholding. Women withhold sex, customers withhold payment.
AHumilationADay 5y ago
Holy hell every single person should read this. This shed a lot of light in the female/Male interdynamics for me. Thanks mate
[deleted] 5y ago
very excellent point bring made in "1: I don’t care what you did for me a year ago. What are you doing for me now?"
from my experience, existing clients (LTRs) tend to be more entitled and expect more from you than a new client. new clients are usually grateful for you solving business problems. Seems eerily similar to real life...
halfback910 5y ago
Yes, inexperience on the part of the buyer or representative is to blame there. Anyone with a bit of experience and thought knows that you have the most leverage before entering into am agreement/switching. That's the time to make your gains.
Another way buyers embarrass themselves is making demands they're not willing to walk over.
Congratulations, you wasted time and look like an asshole.
And then you've got lovely specimens who think yelling and being an asshole constitutes goos vendor management. I'm my company's most successful negotiator in terms of improving our margins. Know how many times I've raised my voice at a vendor?
Zero.
SkribeCo 5y ago
damn, son. this was brilliant!! great op, too.
halfback910 5y ago
Thanks. And if you want a metaphor for oligopolies imagine a room with three fat, old, disgusting men and 1000 women of all shapes, sizes, and hotness. And if the women don't have sex with a man they'll die.
Nobody likes the men. The men don't have to compete and they know it. And everyone suspects they're friends but haven't been able to prove it in court -_-
Examples: Propane, energy, rail shipping.
Da_RectumWrecker 5y ago
Wow what a quality post! I use a lot of these techniques with girls already. Maybe I really should look into a career in sales.
[deleted] 5y ago
one of the most stable and high earning careers on the planet!
Da_RectumWrecker 5y ago
More specifically the pipeline. I've had this philosophy with girls for a long time. I find that 4-5 girls is the right amount for me. With 6 it becomes really hard to remember things. With fewer than 4 I find that I lose abundance mentality a bit and I talk to the ones I do have a little too much. 4-5 spreads my attention out just enough that it allows me to just communicate naturally and not have to worry about following the 2/3 rule of texting or anything like that.
With that being said, even when you're comfortable with your pipeline, always look to add and replace a girl on your bench. Game girls and either next them or keep them around, but never stop. If you stop you lose.
[deleted] 5y ago
agreed. When I was first entering the dating game and I had a cute match on tinder I'd be a bit worried about what to say and do, because if she ghosted me that was my only match and I'd be dry. 4-5 works with me I know some naturals that don't even have to worry about this stuff at all. Everyone has a right number for them whether its the natural with 2 or the PUA with 20
Da_RectumWrecker 5y ago
I don't worry about it per se, but I find that I'm happiest when I have that number rolling. That being said, I've just lost my two main plates in the last 24 hours and feeling pretty bad about it.
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NikolaGeorgiev 5y ago
Thanks for that post, mate.
I always use my Sales skills when doing Game and my RP knowledge when I'm working Sales.
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uebermacht 5y ago
Good reminder with very important additions!
Further reading:
[deleted] 5y ago
Those are great too. Might make a second post based off of some of the comments here.
tiagomunder 5y ago
It's Really Being addicted to coffee a bad thing?( like 3-4 coffee a day)
[deleted] 5y ago
not a medical professional but for some it is a really bad thing others may live their entire lives enjoying multiple coffees a day. 2 a day for me created adverse health effects after 2 years you may have a different experience.
wss5112 5y ago
I like that sales analogy. Strategy. Grind. Painlessness. That’s all you need for success in any industry.
LuckyCriminal98 5y ago
Thats why I love sales/marketing couse it can adapt to women and other areas of life that I like. Where did you learn about sales?
[deleted] 5y ago
Sales training program at a large tech company and also selling cameras in a small store in college. Most of it was learned on the job 80% action 20% reading
Putins_Orange_Cock 5y ago
Almost anyone can get a sales job, almost no one makes it a year or more. At my first sales job, my training class consisted of 20 people, a year out, only me and another guy were left. I now work in a very competitive, commission only environment with a 90% first year failure rate for new hires.
If you can make it, or tough it out getting fired 3 or 4 times while learning how to sell though, you can easily make 6 figures and have the only real job security that exists.
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Putins_Orange_Cock 5y ago
Being the guy making a company money. As long as you're profitable they won't fire you. I made it through th '07-08 recession. Wasn't easy, saw 100 people get fired, but I had a job because somehow I managed to sell.
scissor_me_timbers00 5y ago
How do I test my adrenals? I’ve been using preworkouts for years, although I keep the caffeine intake in moderation. I also don’t do adderall or coke and don’t drink much. All the exercise keeps me in good shape as well as sauna and fairly clean diet. But is there a way to test adrenal burnout that you know of? Maybe I’m just fretting.
ovaltine69chocolate 5y ago
If you are wondering if you have adrenal burn out, you don't have adrenal burn out. Speaking from experience: you would be on the verge of a mental breakdown if you had true adrenal fatigue. You would be in a very serious state of fatigue and depression. Being tired and having an adrenal condition are two ENTIRELY different animals. Edit: you are most definitely just fretting my man ????
[deleted] 5y ago
You should see a doctor as I am not an expert on the subject. Probably rule of thumb is if you feel fine or not while consuming caffeine regularly, especially while off caffeine.
There was a time I used to drink 2 cups of coffee a day to get through the grind and I had bad fatigue/lightheadedness after about 2-3 years.
scissor_me_timbers00 5y ago
Two cups of coffee a day is not bad man. I don’t see why that would lead to real problems.
[deleted] 5y ago
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scissor_me_timbers00 5y ago
One cup of coffee is not 200 mgs of caffeine. A large 20-24 oz cup is. But by “cup” it’s usually meant a standard 8-12 oz., which is about 100 mgs caffeine. So not even approaching the upper limit.
AmazonExplorer 5y ago
Lol, I'm lookin' for a sales job myself, specifically B2B though. Any tips on breaking into the market?
[deleted] 5y ago
Yeah your goal is to look for sdr/bdr roles or sales training programs. For b2b good areas are med devices, tech sales, and a few more.
Treat breaking in as your first sale. Run a pipeline (be talking to X companies at once), once you get the client meeting, escalate to a close. Using sales techniques during the interviews can be good too. "Is there anything I've said that suggests I'm not fit with the position?" "If not, when can I expect to hear back from you?"
You can Google stuff that they want to hear at sales interviews since it's all very straightforward - you're a hustler, motivated, you don't give up, money motivates you to some degree, etc. etc.
http://wallstreetplayboys.com/enterprise-sales-a-legitimate-career-to-get-rich/ this is a good article I agree with 85% of it
choojack 5y ago
Start applying to sales driven companies. Show a shark mentality. Show you're hungry. Interview well and show them you have a solid base for them to build off of.
Find a good place to start that may open doors into an industry you want to sell later.
I am currently selling Health Care Staffing but would like to get into Pharma or Med Device down the road. If I perform within the top 15% that shouldn't be a problem.
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xenongamer4351 5y ago
Spot on man.
Sales is such a perfect translation to RP lifestyle.
I'd almost add another note about cutting bait. I'm not a salesman nor would I pretend to be, but I'd imagine if you make a call and they are teasing you and it becomes obvious that the sale isn't going to happen and you're wasting each others time, to find an appropriate time (maintaining frame being the highest priority) and just getting the fuck out. Not calling back the next day to see if in 24 hours they magically want your most expensive offer, but recognizing the sunk time and moving on. In sales your time is your most valuable asset, and I think that applies to everything else in life too.
I realize this is kind of a hybrid of Note 2 & 7, so I wanted to emphasize this in case anyone doesn't take this out of either note.
[deleted] 5y ago
Yeah this actually happens alot more in staffing/consulting and I had a deal like this last year. Client showed alot of interest in our services but turns out we were bait because they were using us to scare their other provider into doing a better job = 3 months wasted
Sometimes they'll also bait you for free shit. Like if we sell people we run tests for them and check their systems to provide a good business case for our product (which costs money to do) they get the free tests and back out. Maybe this goes into a part 2 post
d4ng3rz0n3 5y ago
I would welcome a part 2 post.
legedu 5y ago
Absolutely. There is the fact that your product should be good enough for your client. But more forgotten: your client should be good enough for your product. Don't be afraid to move on from those unworthy.
xenongamer4351 5y ago
Definitely, to put a sales spin on it since one could argue “Why would a salesman ever consider someone unworthy if they’re willing to buy the product?”, someone with a bad credit rating. Someone trying to to talk you out of a reasonable price range, etc.
In terms of game, I think the comparison is fucking obvious, but even in sales everyone isn’t worth your time. When you see those videos of people recording content like “I dressed up like I’m broke and went to a dealership to get judged and they judged me”, if you think the salesman is the asshole in that situation you just don’t get it.
[deleted] 5y ago
Very true alot of b2b doesn't like to talk to companies that are going down the shitter. Spotting green flags is just as important as red ones
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[deleted] 5y ago
Once you learn a little bit more about women you will come to understand that many women are seeing many guys at once as well. It's perfectly normal for a healthy adult to be dating multiple people as it helps you understand what you like or don't like in a partner.
Best of luck in your interactions with the opposite gender.