The Importance of Oxytocin Production in Women and Inhibition by Hormonal Contraceptives | TheRedPill

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redpillthrowaway1214

Posted 5y ago in Science - Permalink - Locked - 1K Views

INTRO

We at the red pill have long theorized and publicized that a high n count means a girl is broken and unfit for an LTR. I have yet to see any posts connecting this to any scientific studies or drawing any conclusions based on data besides the occasional mention of the inability to pair bond (please link me if I am mistaken).

THEORY

Hormonal contraception decreases a woman’s ability to release oxytocin^1 leading to weaker pair bonds and may contribute to higher n counts. (Progesterone only thank you DogeMcDogeyDoge) (If you’re not familiar with oxytocin read this post: https://archive.fo/7PGOu)

In the United States “Sixty-seven percent of women who practice contraception currently use nonpermanent methods, primarily hormonal methods (the pill, patch, implant, injectable and vaginal ring), IUDs and condoms. The rest rely on female (25%) or male (8%) sterilization.^2”

There are a few potential confounding factors at work here including:

Giving her orgasms during sex^4 (If you’re not giving her orgasms she’ll seek someone out who will)
Males with higher SMVs than their current partner^3 (Oxytocin release makes current partners 15% more attractive but will that stop Chad?)
Psychological freedom provided by birth control (Thank you Mach2Machiavellian)
Mental State (BPD etc.)

Other notable benefits of oxytocin in women^4

Appetite: inhibits appetite to prevent obesity.
Behavior: Oxytocin is anti-psychotic; oxytocin plays an important role in the regulation of normal cognitive functions and behaviors, which are disturbed in schizophrenia
Learning: Meltdown of prior learning in preparation for new learning, like new books in a library, have to be cataloged and shelved (if she is being flooded with oxytocin she will be more likely to forget past lovers and be receptive to her current/new lover)

EDIT: word order & added 3 & 4 to the confounding factors and progesterone only based on comments

Sources:

^1 https://www.medicaldaily.com/contraceptives-sex-drive-oxytocin-attraction-370838

^2 https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/contraceptive-use-united-states

^3 https://www.uni-bonn.de/Press-releases/oxytocin-leads-to-monogamy

^4 http://www.13.waisays.com/clitoral.htm

Permalink

DogeMcDogeyDoge 5y ago

I did some digging and found this article which suggests that COMBINED oral contraceptives actually increase oxytocin.

"A significant increase in levels of oxytocin was registered when the women were on o.c. "

It may be because the estrogen in the combined pills increase oxytocin? Maybe it's just the progesterone only pills which decrease oxytocin, and the study in the main post only had those in the study? I can't find any other studies on the effect of combined oral contraceptives effect on oxytocin. However, from personal experience I'd say my girl hasn't been any less in love while on the combined pill.

redpillthrowaway1214 5y ago

Thank you for doing some digging - this is very interesting and I will add it to my post. This definitely shows more research is needed. It's unfortunate this study is so small, I'd like to see it repeated on a larger scale.

DogeMcDogeyDoge 5y ago

I'm just curious what KINDS of oral contraceptives were used in the study which showed a negative effect on oxytocin. If it was progesterone only then that's probably why it decreased oxytocin (I'm fairly certain progesterone only is bad for oxytocin). Maybe someone could contact the person who wrote that article for clarification? If it's true that combined contraceptive pills increase oxytocin, then that means someone on that will be more likely to stay in a committed relationship.

thesandyoyster 5y ago

This byproduct of hormonal contraceptives is a large contributor to the increase in divorce rates. The woman in the relationship is on the pill throughout the courtship process leading through marriage. Then the couple decide to have a baby. Woman goes off the pill. First time she has not been impacted by hormones while in a relationship with her current spouse. She perceives her spouse completely different while off the pill, relationship falters, and is compounded by the difficulty of raising a baby.

LittleRedditAddict 5y ago

Marries a goofy puss. Gets the two/four/seven year itch.

BaelorsBalls 5y ago

I met gf no contraceptive, she got the patch, if anything she became more attracted to me

Putins_Orange_Cock 5y ago

My wife divorced me after she went off the pill. I conjectured this played role.

fridgefucker12 5y ago

Huh, my ex was noticably different after she got off birth control and we broke up a couple months later. Seems like there is definitely something to this.

kiwiMAGA 5y ago

Also watch for when they switch brands.

destraht 5y ago

My anecdote is that I've been with many women who are not taking any hormonal contraceptive and then start taking it after we start banging she goes onto it and it completely changes her behavior. I dread it. It goes from "this is great" to "this sucks" real fast.

Twentyfivedeep 5y ago

They also quite often gain weight, which is a big no-no for me.

[deleted] 5y ago

Idk, I knew a unicorn that was always horny, never had a period and very low bf%. She was kind of retarded though but the sex was great.

EnragedParrot 5y ago

Well ya can't have everything, right? :p

ContrasexualWoman 5y ago

If she never had a period, she definitely had something biologically wrong with her. Low body fat + lack of menstruation usually = amenorrhea. It's not a condition for her to take lightly. I'm horny 24/7/365 as well, but at least everything works.

[deleted] 5y ago

Sometimes that happens on birth control though

ContrasexualWoman 5y ago

True, that can happen with certain kinds. Is that the situation?

[deleted] 5y ago

Yeah. She took lo loestrin or something like that

SKRedPill 5y ago

There is a nearly perfect correlation between the introduction of the pill and the increase in divorce rates (the chart was somewhere up here, but I don't recall where) - I don't think all of that is just 'staying for the kids' - with women, who are feelings first creatures, the impact of this is significant. Just like TRP happened when men started comparing notes and realized what was going on, we need to look at this.

Also, the pill was what created the Cock carousel in the first place.

Our own observations on large scale behaviour are more reliable than statistical studies, because statistics basically disproves the null hypothesis, or it concludes that there is insignificant evidence to disprove it -- but intelligence sees directly what's going on.

EDIT : Here it is : Take a look at this : https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/05/29/the-pill-and-divorce-the-real-connection/

And this is from a study : https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0927537114000177-gr6.jpg

A near perfect correlation.

[deleted] 5y ago

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H3yFux0r 5y ago

YES!?

TiSimpson87 5y ago

You guys are the very definition of you’re not going to get it because you sweat it

MarinTaranu 5y ago

Oxytocin works in males, also, as it stimulates the production of testosterone. And it actually rejuvenates aging muscles. Muscle tissue has these so-called satellite stem cells that assist muscles to function properly, even at old age, Oxytocin seems to be a trigger for these cells' control. But what I want to know, is there any link between oxytocin and MDMA?

ParanoidKasparov 5y ago

Doses of oxytocin injected into the blood supply and/or spinal fluid (cant remember which might be both) lead to immediate erections in rats interestingly enough.

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redpillthrowaway1214 5y ago

That's a great question! I would love to know the answer. I think it has to from personal experience but that could be confirmation bias

Mach2Machiavellian 5y ago

Sweet, so we can fuck our way to prolonged youth and vigor. Which then leads to more sex, etc. etc.

wawakaka 5y ago

unfortunatley orgasm also triggers prolactin and that makes you fat and kills libido

2ChainZinMedSchool 5y ago

Please stop. The average half life of prolactin is 20 mins. By an hour levels should be low. Unless you jacking off every 20 mins every hour for 24 hours ????. Even then I doubt jacking off spikes prolactin to a serum level (>3.5ng/do) where's it pathological, and our body has negative feedbacks as well.

MarinTaranu 5y ago

If we can, yes. However, erectile dysfunction is one of the first signs of cardiovascular problems. So, proper diet is critical in that respect.

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JamesSkepp 5y ago

Ejaculation (or perhaps even an orgasm itself) lowers T levels. Doesn't matter if it's from sex or masturbation.

-1

Orbiter45 5y ago

But I think the difference is... well, ejaculation causes a type of hang-over. When you have sex with a woman, and get her off, she releases more than Oxytocin. She releases Serotonin, Melatonin and other good stuff.

Getting covered with pussy juice before your ejaculate, is like drinking a V8 before you go to bed after heavy drinking. It reduces the hang over.

hatefulreason 5y ago

i feel like i've read this somewhere else, can you please elaborate or point us in the right direction to read more about this ?

JamesSkepp 5y ago

Google something along the lines of "masturbation testosterone levels" (or something similar) and you'll find that T levels go down right after an orgasm (I'm not sure if it's a response to an orgasm as whole or just the ejaculation) and then begin to go up, reaching the highest levels 7 days after (don't know if they remain the same or decline later, assuming no sex). You'll also find that it doesn't matter whether you masturbated or had sex with a woman.

hatefulreason 5y ago

https://www.healthline.com/health/masturbation-and-testosterone#benefits-and-risks

here says no in the long run but yes in the short run. but isn't that basically always if we masturbate once per week or more ?

http://www.menshealth.co.uk/healthy/you-get-45-more-testosterone-when-you-dont-masturbate-for-a-week

here they claim it's bullshit and go for a "try our approach of boosting T level" marketing tactic

https://examine.com/nutrition/does-ejaculation-affect-testosterone-levels/

another no

the thing that intrigues me is that following an orgasm the energy levels drop and as far as i know testosterone is linked to energy. so even if it's not affecting the t levels there must be some kind of connection between orgasms, testosterone and energy/willingness to do stuff...

edit: i put in a link twice

Mach2Machiavellian 5y ago

I seriously doubt ejaculation has any impact (other than very short term) on T levels. But even if it did, giving up sex just to ensure higher T levels doesn't sound like even close to a fair trade to me.

JamesSkepp 5y ago

there must be some kind of connection between orgasms, testosterone and energy/willingness to do stuff...

You have high T, you want to fuck the girl, kill the competition. You fucked the girl, now the best thing for the genes/child to survive is for you to stop wanting to fuck another girl and instead focus on the mother.

[deleted] 5y ago

Lots of great men in history (both evil and good) seem to have this in common. I actually recall from reading "The rise and fall of the third Reich" that Adolf Hitler had access to plenty of interested women but specifically said to one of his close associates that he did not seek their company because it would distract him from his mission or something along those lines. Didn't have time to fuck bitches, marry, and waste energy. Even Eva Braun he kept at a distance until the very end. Pretty interesting.

But then you have figures like Genghis Khan as the obvious counterexample. Raped multiple women every day and conquered most of Asia.

JamesSkepp 5y ago

Genghis Khan is a bad example. He was a leader of the most powerful army at his times, he gave orders, he strategized, he governed and for most of that he had people who were as competent or even more competent as he was. Imagine Trump as president, he doesn't micromanage everything, he just tells his subordinates "do abc" and they figure out a plan and Trump only approves or not without dabbling in details.

Mach2Machiavellian 5y ago

Sorry if this is answered in the study itself, I don’t have time to read it right now. Did it control for the possible confounding effect that women on birth control psychologically feel freer to fool around?

redpillthrowaway1214 5y ago

The study itself focused on the interference of contraceptives on oxytocin production and i used this to start my theory.

This is a very good point i did not consider, thank you for your input (i will add to the post when i have a minute)

KBeer01 5y ago

Very interesting share, thank you for the effort.

InsulinDaddy 5y ago

I have something you guys might find curious.

There is only little solid research regarding whether humans possess the ability to produce and secrete "pheromones " in order to attract a suitable mate during the courtship process.

Now, to simplify for those who don't know too much about the immune system, every cell of the human body possesses a certain marker on their surface, a certain "ID card" individual to every human being as coded by their DNA profile. This is referred to as the MHC (major histocompatibility complex).

When a cell is under attack by a pathogenic agent, the properties of the MHC change in order to signal the immune system that this cell has been compromised and can be destroyed. (Immune cells wear that id card on their surface as well btw, just a sort of specjal version). Therefore it is crucial to the functioning of our immunity's defense mechanisms (towards the outside but also ourselves regarding autoimmunity) and our survival.

Research suggests that the 'pheromones' were odour preferences by women for men with a "complementary" MHC complex, maybe assure the broadest genetic diversity when it comes to defending from a wide range pathogens.

However, there have been some studies to have found that oral contraception (the pill) is causing women to instead choose prefer partners with a similar MHC profile.

However the data for this has been pretty broad and the results havent always been reproducable. Here is a link to a study with references to similar ones:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18700206/

Thoughts ?

sea_weasel 5y ago

One things for sure, cousin.

Making slow, consistent changes to your endocrine system with any kind of artificial hormones will change you.

Senor_Schwifty 5y ago

Chris Ryan explains this study on Joe Rogans podcast. Is very insightful. https://youtu.be/WKE-k2d1Yjo?t=1m

redpillthrowaway1214 5y ago

This is very interesting, thanks for sharing!

ContrasexualWoman 5y ago

There is only little solid research regarding whether humans possess the ability to produce and secrete "pheromones " in order to attract a suitable mate during the courtship process.

From personal experience, it seems that pheromones are absolutely real. My boyfriends aren't conventionally attractive, most women would likely say they're 6/10, but their natural body odors are total aphrodisiacs to me. The reverse is true as well, if I go to see one of them after a walk/workout, they act much more actively sexual whereas normally I'm the initiator.

[deleted] 5y ago

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redpillthrowaway1214 5y ago

If you're going to down vote please add a comment to further the discussion.

Mojiitoo 5y ago

What you've written here is not scientific and proves nothing yet really. The information and sources provided are fit for how you got to your research question in a scientific research. No more. Its not a theory yet, you'd have to actually conduct a scientific research for it.

However, it is interesting point. The pill does alter the hormonal balance. But leads that to a higher n-count? Thats quite a grasp. What kind of girls would take the pill? They most likely take the pill to prevent getting pregnant, right? Hmmm. What kind of girls would not want to get pregnant? Those who have sex. Having sex = more chance of higher n count! Solved it!

/s for last part. But well, maybe not. I dont think taking the pill leads to higher n counts because of oxycotin, more that they have more sexual freedom because they dont have to worry about getting pregnant. Got no proof of that. More of a mindset. Drunk? No worries about a condom because on pill. Here in Europe everyone is on the pill. It is 'weird' if they're not. Those who are not most often dont have sex often, dont mind planning their cycli or have negative side effects of it.

redpillthrowaway1214 5y ago

That's a good point as well. The wording should probably be more along the lines of "contributes to" instead of leads to.

CC_ee 5y ago

Is this all contraception or just the pill? IUD is the best in terms of keeping her natty right?

redpillthrowaway1214 5y ago

Just contraception methods that affect hormones, I don't believe the IUD falls into that category.

SolarWizard 5y ago

Some IUDs have no hormones, some have progesterone.

littleblacktruck 5y ago

IUD makes women crazy as fuck. Google it. "Does IUD make women crazy?" Symptoms can mimic depression, suicidal thoughts, or even bipolar disorder.

xcalibercaliber 5y ago

Wife had a Mirena IUD for a few years. She was crazy on it about 8 months after but there was a discernible difference starting about 6 months in.

[deleted] 5y ago

[deleted]

-1

ManguZa 5y ago

Hormonal IUDs are frequent nowadays

WarViper1337 5y ago

Incorrect. Most IUD's are hormonal and do not physically block anything. They slowly release whatever hormone they have been laced with over time into the lining of the uterus. There is one non hormonal IUD on the market right now called Paraguard which uses copper instead of hormones as a contraceptive. The process is not well understood but the copper released into the uterine lining somehow negatively affects sperms ability to move as well as interfering with the process of sperm attempting to interact an egg and finally it reduces the ability of a fertilized egg to be able to attach to the uterine wall. It is also one of the longest lasting contraceptives with a device lasting up to 12 years before needing to be replaced.

My GF has had a paraguard for 6 years now and it has worked so far. She tried the pill and patches for a while but they literally drove her insane. Every time I came home from work she was ready to get into a fight the second I stepped through the door. Switching to non hormonal birth control was a godsend for our relationship.

tnegaeR 5y ago

Came back to say my LTR has been absolutely insane since getting a IUD. It’s been 5 months and everything fucking triggers her. I told her to get it taken out or we’re done.

That comment is no joke, I thought it wouldn’t happen to me.

tnegaeR 5y ago

Fuck

The girl I’m seeing just got on a hormonal IUD ;[

Gr0o0vy 5y ago

get ready for your turn might be coming to an end

[deleted] 5y ago

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U-94 5y ago

Women are 1000% more sane not taking the pill. But I hate condoms so there ya go...

ContrasexualWoman 5y ago

Could just get a vasectomy. Or find a woman who has gotten sterilized herself.

arphod 5y ago

This is a gross oversimplification. Condoms are invaluable to contain disease in a sexual-carousel environment. If we cannot trust women to not cheat (and we can't trust ourselves either), than it seems to me that it is wise to wear a condom every time with every woman. Forever.

littleblacktruck 5y ago

Ironically, I buy condoms by the gross.

ContrasexualWoman 5y ago

Yeah, if for some reason you're with a partner who is prone to cheating, you don't think you can control yourself, or have sex with random men/women condoms would be a must. I've never been in that situation (I'm sterilized, as well as one of my boyfriends, and we're poly only with each other) so it wasn't immediately what came to mind.

arphod 5y ago

There is not a situation which I can envision where I could ever be certain I was not being cheated on. I'm not bitter about this; it is something I have come to understand and believe, both due to my own experiences and those of other men. Because that is my position, abstinence is my normal behavior, and condoms are for every time I choose to break that. Every time. My future relationships will not be "serious" enough to warrant bareback.

ed: schpellin

ContrasexualWoman 5y ago

Interesting. My position is different, in that if I wasn't 99.999% positive my boyfriends weren't having sex with anyone except myself and between them...well. I would not be in said relationship. Are you worried more about accidental pregnancy or STDs?

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Sparky159 5y ago

So the takeaway here is if your plate/LTR ever gets on the pill, you have to fuck her until she can't walk, and flood her brain with Oxytocin?

redpillthrowaway1214 5y ago

I'm not sure if it's as black and white as this which is why i didn't draw any particular conclusions but I think it's something that could be considered.

One other thing i didn't add was how this backs up the notion that long distance doesn't work.

Sparky159 5y ago

3 LDR's later, and can confirm that they don't and won't work, unless someone puts in the effort to close the gap permanently. And if it's the guy that closes that gap, then it still won't work out because you're giving the woman the power/control

KateCoger 5y ago

This is possibly the stupidest thing I have read all year.

1) so, women who are on contraceptives do not make ideal LTRs Sooooo...... It doesn’t matter how many partners she’s had by your stupid mental train wreck. Just being on it while a virgin is enough to inhibit proper bonding. This is the opposite of what you’re trying to say. It woman could spend her days blowing randos and still be suitable b/c she’s not on hormonal birth control. Also, the BPD women who get pregnant intentionally would be great partners because, you know, no birth control.

2) Your research sucks The very first article is title something like “birth control may lead to lower oxytocin:” If you were a researcher worth half a pinch of salt you would realize this MAY mean everything except that MAY usually means nothing.

the theory is that multiple sexual partners is correlated with poor LTR

birthcontrol has nothing to do with sexual partners

Ergo: OP has worse logic than a woman, and downvoters do too

-6

ROOSTER 5y ago

if you were a researcher you'd know that was the title of the article not the study, but you're a woman so we cant expect much.

redpillthrowaway1214 5y ago

You brought up a good point.

1) Mental state is definitely another confounding factor which I did not add.

2) This is why it's a theory. There should definitely be more research on this topic to either confirm or deny it but unfortunately, that's not available at this time. The whole point of this post was to gather information from other men to see if they have had similar experiences to myself. I left out my personal anecdotes because I did not want to draw any particular bias to my position on the issue.