The purpose:
There has been a lot of talk about PUA lately but nothing from an actual pickup artist, none of the posters identified as a pickup artist, but simply giving their interpretation of the subject.
Lately there has been a lot of psychoanalyzing other groups in the nanosphere, and to be honest I enjoy it, it's fun. The sub isn't going to shit, old TRP was awesome, new TRP is still awesome, everything is exactly what it needs to be.
While some people may want to act like this is a 100% serious sub, truth is we have a lot of fun here talking about certain subjects and trying to one up another, I mean where else can you see this sort of drama about these particular subject matters.
This is PUA VS Jordan Peterson front row seats.
This is like Reality TV for other people, so at the end of the day this is just all in fun, we can have also fun while growing as people and dealing with serious issues.
Admit it, If Jordan Peterson challenged Rollo to a debate you would watch that shit, faster than you would watch Kim Kardashian
The hierarchy:
At the end of the day this group is like every other group. There is a hierarchy, I'm not talking about mods, or endorse contributors, I'm talking about social hierarchy in terms of Mgtow, MRA, Pick up Artist, ect... There is a totem poll, and some people tend to think others are sitting on the bottom, let's get away from that mentality real quick and focus on just being different in terms of labels and types.
Why listen to me:
Because I love the concept of PUA, I went from 0 to hero, the first time I applied PUA I got laid, the first fucking date, I'm no expert
but even with the little I know I had great success with women for 10 years. My close rate is 95%, a far cry from the “I talk to 100 women and maybe 5 give me there number”. I take 100 women on a date, I will sleep with 95 of them.
All PUA Did was help me drop my ego
it wasn't a simple script to follow, The game doesn't even have any pick up lines, it's a mindset and understanding social interaction. It's not a short cut, learning 2+2=4 instead of 1+1+1+1=4 doesn't mean you are trying to cheat nature or do something unnatural, it's just PUA isn't intended to solve all your emotional issues, just one specific issues.
Imagine being told that you are supposed to ask a women to kiss her otherwise it's assault and rapey. I would ask permission to kiss a woman,
I even had women tell me to just kiss them, one girl said flat out, "I like assholes, you need to be more like that", but I just couldn't put two
and two together not out of fear or deceit but rather I'm not a rapey guy. And I was taught sex was inherently rapey.
After reading PUA and understanding that How I really felt was valid I starting passing though LMR with ease never had a single compliant, even
though by society standards I was rapey and by feminist standards I was a actual rapist.
I never felt entitled to anything so if I perceived the rules of social interaction to be calm, slow, safe , I did those things, I presented the most unexciting safest guy you would meet.
Adding a few more labels
Apparently the PUA's are the weak man, the psychopaths, the great manipulators , we are putting on a band aid to cover up real weaknesses and eventually we will get caught.
All I have to say to this definition is someone literally put there tongue up the crack of a feminist and presented me with shit , This is called virtue signaling, just like the LGBTQA+++ keeps adding letters, it's important we add a few more.
The WannaBe Jock:
The WannaBe doesn't imply being fake it implies wanting to be something else, "The best version of yourself", "A high value man", "A Alpha", every
single fucking thing but yourself. I'm seeing a lot of this lately, can't smile, can't play video games, can't even touch your dick.
apparently Alpha men have a stern face and a hard pee pee.
These people when looking back and thinking what went wrong tend to blame it on being themselves. I feel sorry for them, they confuse all they are with what they manifest.
The PUA understands that being yourself is the correct answer(This isn't bad advice) they also understand that they weren't being themselves they were their ego, because they thought of themselves as a bad thing and no one would ever love them. PUA is simple, it doesn't solve your deeply repressed child hood drama of being touch in bad places but rather requires you to work with you.
That is scary to the WannaBe, because in their mind being themselves has failed, so they literally have to construct a entirely new Identity, Jorden Peterson comment about Adapting certain
behaviors is the core of their faith, they think they achieved some realness because they say, "My current state is a piece of shit faggit", I honestly think these guys
are fighting repressed homosexuality and are afraid of being bisexual.
Jordan Peterson gets respect because he speaks to their soul
they can learn to clean their room and presto they will eventually become a new person worthy of love,
someone they don't have to hide from others, free of flaws and touching their dick. These dudes are really afraid to touch their dick some even go as far as to call it homosexual to watch porn because it's training you for cucking. As I said repressed homosexuality
If Jorden Peterson says something they believe it, because he is their god, their hope, if they mimic the habits of someone they can finally free themselves from themselves
and start over as a new person. Once they realize they will only ever be the same guy smoking weed, addicted to porn, they just need more discipline and ego after that they will be fine.
Porn is boring to me because I find women more enjoyable, if I could sustain myself with porn I would do it, Why else would I leave the house, face dangers and rejection, because
being with women are so awesome, I'm not afraid to admit I need women to be happy, but apparently women are just regulated to the spice of my life than a major part of it.
They are so afraid to write their own story because every time they do they fuck it up so bad that they want someone else’s story. I replaced porn with women, sex is a need for my beast. The addiction never goes away, that is called being human.
The WannaBE focuses on cloths he normally wouldn't wear, he focuses on doing activities he normally wouldn't do, apparently doing this enough times he will start to enjoy them.
The WannaBE thinks alpha is something to aspire too be instead a set of behaviors, the PUA realizes someone else must call him Alpha, the WannaBE thinks if he has some magical solid foundation he will be a unshakable Alpha, to participle in democracy is something the WannaBE is above, this is why he will trashes Men's right for wasting their time.
A quick tip on reading people, whatever a person handle is , that's the energy they want manifested in their lives, it's a protection mechanism, calling yourself something like
"WifePanties" or "Ilikebutsex", isn't a joke, it's a safe way to become who you truly are as a person
Now take a look at all the advice you read on red pill, any mention of the word faggot or Homosexuality take it as repressed emotions and putting on a mask , they think if they repeat the same mantra of doing masculine things like working out and getting muscle they can wash away the gay, scary shit, PUA can’t solve those types of mental issues, all we can teach is 2+2=4, you gotta learn 1+3=4
enkae7317 5y ago
It's funny how much TRP is so adamant they're different from PUA. Even to the point where they'll shit on pickup artists. They ARE BASICALLY THE SAME, but in essence they aren't. I mean shit, take a look at the linguo: shit tests, LTR, one-itis, etc.
Push pull? Story telling? FRAME? That stuff is literally taken from PUA's handbook. Take as it what you will, but you can't say without a doubt that you're not pick up artists when you utilize their playbook in just about every aspect of your lives.
What you can say, though, is that TRP is still PUA, but more evolved. There are still semblances of pickup technique in TRP, but the main mission is slightly different. There is no Pickup vs TRP. They're basically the same. With minor differences. If you explain what TRP is to casual joe, then what Pickup is, they'll hardly be able to tell the difference.
Source: majority of reddit thinks we're all misogynistic narcissists hell bent on doing nothing but fucking women and manipulating them to our will. Just like how they think PUA's are.
OfficerWade 5y ago
I’m going to give this post a well deserved 5/10
What we need to teach is not 2 plus 2 equals 4
But 2+2=5
You were very close.
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gbdoragnic 5y ago
I don't understand, can you elaborate ?
OfficerWade 5y ago
Sure, I’ll try. According to logic and reasoning, a good looking guy is also established with friends and money but we know this is not so. Just like money isn’t an indication of wealth. You’re friends could win the lottery but it doesn’t mean they have the skills necessary to replace the money they have. It’s that skill that women find attractive and it’s not what they teach you in the red pill. The red pill is still under the same laws as the feminine imperative that 2+2=4
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Zech4riah 5y ago
I stopped reading right here because this is bullshit even though you did some ultimate statistics twisting and made up your own rules how to define "close rate":
If you come and DG or NG with me and I start pointing out girls to you who are HB 8-10, you will be demigod if you can close 25% of them.
-1
gbdoragnic 5y ago
I don't know about DG or NG, but if a girl agrees to a date you should be able to close consistently , it's not that impressive , my main hurdle is getting her on a date, if she agrees it basically in the bag
Zech4riah 5y ago
In that case, yes, close ratio will be a lot higher but 95%...?
dr_warlock 5y ago
I don't believe the idea he's trying to convey either. I could 'slay' 5s and 6s like nothing and call that a 95% close rate. Not brag worthy whatsoever. 6s are for when I'm really horny and that shit is super super convenient. I don't feel awesome after and don't want to be seen in public.
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I wanna know where you're cruisin where you're surrounded with a bunch of 8+ women. I rarely spot them and I go out often. Two 8's max at any given venue and they're surrounded by a hoard.
Zech4riah 5y ago
I know, but when incredible bullshit comes up, it just degrades whole post in my eyes. Can't help it.
Never said I'm surrounded by them. For example at my city you must walk around like 10mins to spot even one girl above 8 when doing DG.
When it comes to NG, there is one club where "all" the 20-25 year old hotties go (because all ice hockey jocks and players go there too). There you can almost feel like "surrounded" by them. No lack of sets there.
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RPGivesYouWings 5y ago
This makes sense:
(emphasis mine)
I studied the Venetian Arts when it came out in the late 00s... not to be a PUA or gain their mindset (I quite liked my own at the time), but to better understanding social interaction and apply it to a sales gig. One of the most powerful things I remember was a PUA describing how it's really just about presenting your best self and, to your point, not so much about being your best self (for sales, replace self with product/service). It was pretty hokey like "there's an awesome guy in you, let's figure out how to talk about him."
Anyways, a natural consequence of that study and practicing and refining it in literally thousands of sales calls was being able to intentionally pull girls instead of clumsily getting laid (even a blind squirrel finds a nut, eh?) but that was never the goal... the goal was to be able to influence conversations to my benefit. Sorry JBP and the faithful, that's not psychopathy that's Machiavellian.
Let's keep this sales theme going.
PUA is the presentation of the product... and if you can sell ice to an eskimo you can put a blue-pilled dick in some nice trim.
TRP is more of the R&D that makes the product... and for some reason it seems more honest to sell a good product with a mediocre sales team than the inverse.
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RPGivesYouWings 5y ago
I don’t think it’s fair to cast PU Artistry as blue or red pill... it’s merely a skill set or a tool box that is used by blue and red pillers alike.
To your point, I think, many of the techniques are inauthentic and have a heavy touch of NiceGuy covert contracts like “if I act this way and wear this thing then she’ll give me that which I value most: pussy.” .... and that is blue pill.
gbdoragnic 5y ago
> TRP is more of the R&D that makes the product... and for some reason it seems more honest to sell a good product with a mediocre sales team than the inverse.
That is such a good way to explain it
> Sorry JBP and the faithful, that's not psychopathy that's Machiavellian.
It's about being yourself of course sometimes you find out you have Machiavellian in you naturally, one time I was with a girl and she said whats your type, I replied without thinking , "Fast , easy and loose", Because that is the truth I didn't want a smart,funny girl, I wanted a easy lay and that was my type. She fell in love with me. Offered me money, chased me for years.
To this day I never quite had the confidence to do that again
RPGivesYouWings 5y ago
That’s not quite what I meant about the Machiavellian behavior. Yours is more of a IDGAF and you were successful because your words and beliefs were congruent.
What I meant was that certain PUA techniques are intentional manipulation for personal benefit... like befriending the males in a mixed group or giving IOIs to the target’s friend.
strikethrough123 5y ago
The "RedPillers" who say that pickup is an uneffective method haven't swallowed the pill fully. They resent pick-up because it's a facade, it's essentially a mask you temporarily put on to attract women. What I don't understand is, how can you claim to be RP (with all of the Machiavellian aspects of swallowing the pill) but reject a specific sort of mask?
Pick-up artistry is nothing more than a means to an end, the end being fucking more women, and it does that very well.
I'm not an advocate of pick-up. I'd rather lift, improve my life, and let the women come. I'll build my stone castle. But if others would rather build dozens of sand castles that'll be knocked down eventually, let them be. Both methodologies offer different paths and lifestyles for different types of men. To bash another would simply be a clash of perspectives, and we all know what that leads to.
gbdoragnic 5y ago
> They resent pick-up because it's a facade, it's essentially a mask you temporarily put on to attract women.
What you call mask is what I call spin, it's like when a fat women says she is a curve, I take my flaws and repackage them as common sense. I'm not lying or pretending I'm showing my true self. I found i tend to attract a certain type of women with PUA, those that are fast and easy.
I say your version of red pill is someone who Wants to be something else,
> improve my life, and let the women come.
Why must you improve your life for women to come? or you not good enough, I improve my life when I want something more, learning pick up is what I wanted fix, my life was awesome in every other regard, money,career,toys,friends
> I'll build my stone castle. But if others would rather build dozens of sand castles that'll be knocked down eventually, let them be.
The castle some PUAs suffer from is Impostor Syndrome, Neil Strauss went though this. We grow to fast , we can sleep with 9s and 10s and still feel like losers, Once I realized that I wasn't being fake and that I was connecting with people because I was already connected with them.
All PUA is a blue print on how to sale yourself, it taught me I was good enough as is, which was very scary for me
strikethrough123 5y ago
A fat woman can say she is curvy, but she is still objectively fat. You can reframe it however you choose, but objective reality is objective reality.
You misinterpreted. Improving your life isn't a prerequisite for women to come, but it makes it a whole lot easier. I'm not saying I improve my life in order for women to come, either.
gbdoragnic 5y ago
I see where your coming from seeing as Strauss is a feminist and hates PUA now, seeing how many pick up artist don't have a unshakable frame even the writer of the game had to basically beg to get married.
I really think this is impostor syndrome, I suffered from it a lot, I make good money, fit, sleep with women but still felt like I didn't truly deserve it, No matter how hard I worked I felt like I didn't belong, even though I made a lot of money and worked harder than others and had nothing but good reviews, I still felt like I wasn't worthy.
The belief to have a unshakable foundation by improving yourself is something I believed all my life however women didn't magically appear, once I added PUA it all worked out.
Strauss choose the easy way out he didn't feel he could love himself because deep down inside he wasn't amazing, he didn't look amazing, or talk amazing, hopefully he realizes that you don't need to be amazing to be a best selling author
zyqkvx 5y ago
No-one cares but your post is good. TRP has been overrun with bluepill that just don't get it. TRP has always been a bit harsh on PUA because bad internal frame and such. Really, TRP should embrace PUA 2.0. PUA minus the crap, plus new hard analysis based info.
Shoot me a few links to good PUA sites if you wish. I'd like to start reading up on it again and taking notes and doing analysis.
Saying PUA is stupid is like saying body language, and game itself is stupid.
ebaymasochist 5y ago
"PUA realizes someone else must call him Alpha, the WannaBE thinks if he has some magical solid foundation he will be a unshakable Alpha" "they think if they repeat the same mantra of doing masculine things like working out and getting muscle they can wash away the gay, scary shit"
One of the most important things I learned from pick up is everything becomes easier when you are able to love other men, which is something that is missing in so many people. You have to be happy for your friends and love them like brothers. Their success is your success. If they are better at something, just sit and listen and learn as much as you can. Jealousy will kill you. If the only thing you can do is talk shit on other guys, you're pretty much unfuckable. Judging and gossip, especially if you are talking of a friend, instantly says "I am inferior in every way."
The real alpha builds up the guys in his crew. In a crew there can only be one alpha, by definition. This changes in nature. If the alpha dog becomes injured, he has to give up alpha status and accept his lower status. The "betas" are still up to the task of becoming the alpha when it's in the best interest of the pack. But every man in the crew will be the alpha in a group of women. Energy spent trying to cut others down is a waste.
Men today are missing a part of themselves without comradery. Guys who have known real brotherly love will not be afraid that they are gay. They go out and brag about their friends and tell stories of adventures taken, and have no doubt of their sexuality, because they have loved both men and women, and know the difference. They know who they want to fuck. And who they want to hang out with.. And women feel the confidence and positive energy from the man who knows what friendship really means, who has passion in all areas of life, instead of going around pissed off saying "That's gay" just because they think they have to.
gbdoragnic 5y ago
> This changes in nature. If the alpha dog becomes injured, he has to give up alpha status and accept his lower status.
And accepting lower status doesn't mean you should look down on yourself, being a leader/alpha dog is a burden. To many people think the concept of Alpha means we are always trying to one up each other when it's really about humbleness
> But every man in the crew will be the alpha in a group of women.
Important concept , something I slipped up on recently
> Men today are missing a part of themselves without comradery. Guys who have known real brotherly love will not be afraid that they are gay.
I remember one day while walking my friend held my hand, I was shocked, Guys weren't supposed to hold hands I told him
ebaymasochist 5y ago
Were you trapped in a flooded cave in Thailand?
ebaymasochist 5y ago
Dammit I thought I finally figured out how to quote something. lol
Omnibrad 5y ago
When people assume that someone is a repressed homosexual because they use the word faggot, you're just wrong. Maybe you're right once out of ten times, because even a broken clock is right twice a day, but your thought process is entirely wrong.
To call someone a faggot, loser, douchebag, tool, retard...all these words serve the same function in most conversation and that is simply to shame certain behavior which isn't desirable. To draw faulty conclusions about repressed homosexuality is overreaching psychobabble.
zyqkvx 5y ago
You're dead right. The caveat is if you call a homie a faggot for, say, showing up to a party looking like he just crawled out of bed, you expose yourself to public shaming. You got to choose your fights, when, where. I am Not saying to stop saying faggot. I do find there is an art of using 'things that a woman might say' against men and women alike, especially women. An example, Once I was walking down a 8 foot wide strolling sidewalk with wet grass on the sides. A mob of women where walking broadside taking up the whole sidewalk and they reaked of that bossy 30 year old wanna-be movie star pack of women. When I got closer they of course didn't part a path for me. I stopped 5 feet before them. They were cueing me off the sidewalk. I just said, "Only a terrible person won't share a sidewalk". That seemed to stun them and a few moved out of the way. I continued to walk. It's a petty story. It's an experiment I'm doing. I'm trying to figure out how to flip the situation and use their own weaponizations against them instead of saying basic failure male shit, or walk on the wet grass 10 feet to avoid, or show natural brew aggravation towards their intentional behaviors. I'm socially experimenting just like women have been doing all their lives.
It's almost like a KenM setup. Instead of watching them run me off the sidewalk, or be evasive or slightly agro. I just concede to that awkward moment instead of squirm out like I'm supposed to. Then, bam, KenM line, "Only terrible people don't share sidewalks". Notice I didn't specifically point anyone out. I 'let them figure out it' just like how they say things to men.
gbdoragnic 5y ago
I find it interesting you focus solely on that part, Out of everything wht is important to you? Why are you so concern about this?
> To call someone a faggot, loser, douchebag, tool, retard...all these words serve the same function in most conversation and that is simply to shame certain behavior which isn't desirable.
No, loser means you aren't a winner, a douchebag means you are acting like your shit don't stink, a tool means you let other people use you, a retard means you're stupid, a faggot means you're a homosexual
So why call people homosexuals in the worst type of word? For edginess? To not be politically correct?
Look at it this way, if I said to you, I don't like Pizza I l just like eating circles, you would say it's obviously I like pizza and I'm just bullshitting you, So when someone says women don't like bad boys, they just like confidence, It's really a line of bullshit to get you from seeing the forest full of trees.
People manifest whatever the fuck they want, if you talk about negative things you're a negative person , if your last 5 boyfriends beat the shit out of you , it means you like it.
When you call someone a faggot and saying it's undesirable behavior you're saying homosexuality is undesirable , this is how some idiots believe their bullies were helping them become more tough. The lies people tell themselves is exactly why so many men get played by women so easily. What is in front of you is the true, and it's very simple to read people if you truly listen
Omnibrad 5y ago
I was hoping you would stop assuming things to be true which aren't true.
Being a homosexual is undesirable, given we're in a forum for male sexual strategy.
gbdoragnic 5y ago
> Being a homosexual is undesirable, given we're in a forum for male sexual strategy.
Being a homosexual is either who you're or not, being undesirable is a negative quantifier you put there, in this sub homosexuality isn't a negative or bad thing.
> I was hoping you would stop assuming things to be true which aren't true.
That is easy explain why homosexuality is undesirable?
To me it makes sense that homosexuality isn't undesirable because you are learning about the real world and admitting who you're as a person to live a authentic life
Therefore
> just because this is a forum about male sexual strategy?
Makes no sense whatsoever , homosexuality isn't undesirable and I stand by that and everything I said
[deleted] 5y ago
Because being sexually dominated by another man is considered a fate worse than death by most cultures, even when the greeks were bumming each other you weren't worth shit if you were the bottom. Some historical context might help you understand these basic concepts. The word faggot itself actually used to mean you are a burden, or useless. So it carries that connotation which is far more insulting than anything else.
gbdoragnic 5y ago
Dude....
> Because being sexually dominated by another man is considered a fate worse than death by most cultures,
What the fuck does this have to do with you
> even when the greeks were bumming each other you weren't worth shit if you were the bottom.
dude... is this how you really feel?, who gives a fuck what the greeks think, what do you think?
> Some historical context might help you understand these basic concepts.
Why aren't you telling me how you fee? are you saying homosexuality isn't something you want to be because of their historical context?
> The word faggot itself actually used to mean you are a burden
Some social context might help you understand that the concept of words change meaning and the word now means gay, because they use to burn homosexual men at the stake which is why the use of the word faggot is connotative , so perhaps you need some historical context as to why we don't do that in modern society, it isn't a PC thing, it's a respect thing.
All I'm saying is be yourself and let go of the fear of being who you are
[deleted] 5y ago
I 'feel' like you are trying way too hard here. All I'm doing is explaining the connotations associated with the word faggot and why it is considered insulting in our culture. Also I have hardly ever seen the word used to describe a gay person, more as a harsher synomyn for the word 'bitch', directed at a man who is completely useless or a coward.
gbdoragnic 5y ago
> , directed at a man who is completely useless or a coward.
We share one thing in common the word is used as a insult towards men
> a harsher synomyn for the word 'bitch',
Bitch is used for coward because typically it's a man risking his life, you see a guy get beat up, you don't expect his girl to protect him, but society expects men to protect his women, therefore calling him a bitch is calling him a women on the sly.
> I 'feel' like you are trying way too hard here.
I could say the same thing about you, you went into detail about why being faggot is a insult, when I stated it was a insult.
It's like poker, it's a tell, learning to read tells are scary because than you realize all the tells you been doing, so keep staying blue, swallowing the pill means you have to compromised your internal state , all the lies and ego built realities must die.
> even when the greeks were bumming each other you weren't worth shit if you were the bottom.
You brought this thought into consciousness, now you can learn how to read people but coming to grips with that reality might cause you to realize some things about yourself you aren't comfortable with. Just remember there is no reward for lying to yourself.
EscapeTheGoat 5y ago
I feel like I'm not really in the same frame of mind as what you're saying. What's wrong with wanting to be a high value man? What's wrong with limiting porn usage to reasonable amounts or cutting it out? What's wrong with rearchitecting one's self?
Is self-improvement a problem for you?? I'm not trying to be an asshole, I just genuinely didn't understand what you were trying to say.
gbdoragnic 5y ago
> What's wrong with wanting to be a high value man?
Did I say there was anything wrong with a high value man, do you need permission or someone to push you to be high value? I have a issue with people thinking they need to be high value before they see themselves as worthy.
Thus the term Wanna Be? Do you Wanna Be high value?
> Is self-improvement a problem for you?
No, I never implied it was, Self improving for the purpose of loving yourself is backwards, improving yourself because you love yourself is what I'm promoting.
PUA was me improving myself I wasn't trying to become high value I was learning a new skill set that help me get what I want out of life. I workout for health, because I respect myself
Do you wanna be a high value man? Or do you want to be yourself?
EscapeTheGoat 5y ago
OH...I see what you're saying. But I think you're not giving people enough credit. Most people want to build on a skill they have to develop a career and thus become "high value". That's not inauthentic. Sure, like becoming a stereotypical "high value" male perhaps isn't.
gbdoragnic 5y ago
Developing a career is common sense, but don't tie it to yourself worth otherwise you will tend to be arrogant and thinking you are better than other people and see other people who have more as "Higher value", do what you want for yourself not so others can like you
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gbdoragnic 5y ago
being better is often synonymous with being worth more, I'm better at computers than some people, and others are better at sports, so obviously everyone is different at certain skill sets.
Correct, some people are worth more to others, but you can't build this value directly,my parents will view me as a higher value than you no matter what you do.
Building worth though actions is ego based, which has it purpose but keep it to making money and gathering resources
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JazzJack2 5y ago
Great post man ! thanks for sharing with us your thoughts.
Can you address which PUA material worked out for you ?
There are so many bullshit out there, the old mASF stuff is very blunt and not organized, from your precpective what are the best materials that are most effective ?
Thanks !