I don't care how often people on here claim that "Looks don't matter" or "Game is more important than looks" or "Status is more important than looks". I also don't care how often people claim that "Looks are more important to men, for women they are not that important". I don't know who came up with this lie, but it's just complete nonsense. I saw that this subreddit slowly accepts those things, and it can't be stressed enough (in the same way that there is at least one post a day that tells about the importance of lifting), so here is my turn:
The better you look, the less Game or Status or Money or anything like this matters. Apparently, everyone that doesn't want to accept the importance of looks knows someone that looks like horseshit and still pulls Victoria Secrets models on a regular basis. I really wonder why I never see those guys in real life, must be due to the fact that I'm totally biased, right?
See, I have also been a huge defender of "Game >>> Looks" for a long time ago. I thought that I have to approach at least 1.000 women in order to understand their psychology and then learn how to win them over. At the same time, I wondered why some friends of mine didn't have to do this kind of bullshit and still get laid effortlessly with good looking women. Long short story: They're simply better looking than I am.
It has been ridiculous at some times. A standard statement is something along the lines of "Looks alone won't get you laid, even good looking guys have to make sure that they don't fuck things up."
No. Horseshit. For good looking guys it's just significantly harder to fuck things up. You don't even need self-confidence. My flatmate is shy and good looking. I once introduced him to a girl because he was to scared to do it on his own, and the whole time he just stood there without being able to say a thing. He nearly pooped his pants. From a perspective of Game, the panties of the girl must have dried instantly, right? No, she thought that he was cute. I think I have never been more confused in my life, but it makes sense now of course.
And don't even try to tell me "This only works for 0.01% of men". It just works for anyone that is good looking, not only for the absolute top tier guys.
Game, Status, Money - it's just overrated in comparison to looks. So, what to do?
Make Looksmaxxing your number one priority. And since everyone on here is already telling you to lift and take care of your clothes and hygiene, take some advice that will have an even bigger impact:
If you're balding, consider a hair transplant or anything that saves your hair. Nearly everyone loses a few points by losing hair. "B-but, look at Jason Statham! He's so masucline, right?"
Dude, Jason Statham looks good because he has the facial aestethics to go with it. Also, he would look better with hair too.
If you have a weak chin or lower third in general, consider surgery. Yeah, I get it, most of you find the thought of a cosmetic surgery repulsive, but the fact is that a cosmetic surgery like this is
1) rather cheap, 2) rather riskless.
No matter how long you let your beard grow, it isn't going to hide a recessed chin.
If your teeth are crooked, get braces. Women despise ugly teeth. Even if you're a good looking guy, crooked teeth will drop you at least one point. You don't have to wear visible ones in modern society.
Most users are probably going to hate me for this kind of advice, but let me tell you something: when you got a new haircut, lift regularly and still get rejected twenty times a night, then there might be more into it that not having the right game. Nothing is improving your overall quality of life and success with women more than looksmaxing.
WhoresOnAHorse 6y ago
Most guys fall for a complete black and white thinking — either looks don‘t matter or they‘re everything — usually depending on if they consider themselves good looking or not.
But: If you tell a woman to imagine a high status, successful guy, I guarantee you it will be a tall, handsome and fit guy, probably in a suit. If you are good looking people, especially women, will talk about you. If you are the guy all her girlfriends talk about you are — guess what — high status to her.
Good looking people also earn more money, get easier in clubs etc.
Beeing good looking will make her more receptive and submissive from the start, making it far easier to pull off you game.
People often say something like „looks open the door, but game lets you go through“. Yeah, but going through an open door really isn‘t that hard.
[deleted] 6y ago
Looks are extremely important. How do I know? I lost mine (balding). I was able to pick up girls fairly easy and thought my game was good. Game is largely BS (outside of basic social skills). Once my hairline started going back, women changed how they responded to me, been called ugly many times now. Forget about getting women if you are too ugly.
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Merwebb 6y ago
I dont know.
I've pulled pretty chicks being way fatter than I'm now.
Just saying
Cynewald 6y ago
Lets be brutally honest, if you noticeably short (say 5'1 > 5'7), small skeletal frame and an ugly generic face like Rick Moranis or Steven Anthony Lawrence, then there is no hope for you other than escorts or scouring 3rd world countries for poor females of passable body weight. Your not gonna get an ugly faced short girl that weighs 125lbs in the Anglosphere. Not even 160lbs. Doesn't matter if you bodybuild or wear nice clothes with the above physical characteristics, your only gonna get pig-ugly landwhales that weigh 200, 250, 300+ pounds. I know of such guys and they hold down jobs (one is low status, the other is intermediate and works in a Toyota dealership). I never see these stories of 'Danny de Vito's with hot Danish models' in real life couples. They are a fiction of the media. Tall/Large ugly men can play 'brute game' (rugby physique, shaven head if balding) and they'll be a 5/10 female that weighs 130lbs that fancies you. Still a numbers game though. Slim/skinny/healthy-bodied ugly women have more options than you think and they'll shit on most guys that are ugly and small, no matter if they are effectively in the same league in terms of face & height / structure / fitness.
Flint95 6y ago
brutal sad that this sub is delusional . this post is 100% truth
YourFriendsDog 6y ago
Hey, I wouldn’t ask a real life person this because that would be beta asf, but I’m 18, I’m a good looking guy, I get positive attention from girls nearly everyday, but one thing is that my teeth are all around pretty much fine, even though I’ve never wore bracelets, but the only thing is I have a gap in between my two front teeth. I’m an introvert (INTP) so I rarely smile with my teeth, and in high school I avoided social interactions, so I don’t have a good data set of reactions to come to a conclusion. All I have is I’ve made a couple of outstanding and passionate presentations in classes in senior year in which my teeth were on full display and this only bolstered girl’s attention (temporarily as I was still a hard introvert), so it would seem that my game (confidence) overshadowed my front teeth gap.
My questions is: Assuming everything else is good, would a gap in the front teeth ruin it?
I’ll get braces eventually when I can afford it, but I’d like to hear someone’s opinion on this, through the anonymousy of reddit of course, it would be beta of me to ask anyone in real life about this. It’s kind of beta asking you, but I don’t really consider it beta because it’ll have no negative affect in my real life reputation.
everquestnerd 6y ago
I have a gap in between my front teeth as well. I actually forget about it 90% of the time , its never on my mind. It's a flaw I can't fix. As long as they're white ( get some whitening agents ) you're gtg. This will not have any outcome on your interactions, because you are a man, and who gives a shit about a gap.
YourFriendsDog 6y ago
Ya I rarely think about it except when I’m smiling with my teeth up close to someone. You said it’s a flaw you can’t fix, but it is fixable with braces, so that’s a good thing ????
Hjalmbere 6y ago
Dating is a numbers game. An average guy in a big city will get laid more than a man with model looks who lives in Alaska.
A male model will however have it really easy in a big city. I know a guy who is a former model. He gets more ass than a toilet seat, but even he will not get laid if he’s too drunk to put together coherent sentences. I contrast that with an aging rockstar I once saw in a bar. He was so drunk/high he couldn’t stand up. At the end of the night I saw two hot blondes carry him home. As far as looks go this rockstar probably ranks a bit above average, but nowhere near my friend the male model.
TLDR; Status trumps everything but this doesn’t mean you shouldn’t work on your looks.
Flint95 6y ago
its a good cope cause everyone can achieve that . after beein borned . not so much genetics , looks
Hjalmbere 6y ago
Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t hit the gym. Most of us will never be Brad Pitt, but most of us can achieve a toned muscular body and dress well. Don’t forget grooming.
h6d 6y ago
Hi I think looks and game are equally important
I’m def not gona approach a women with a baggy beer t shirt
Im def not gona approach a women when I have zero game and stand there and studder and twitch
So yea looks and game are equally important
BlackMan54321 6y ago
Looks Don't matter. Looks Don't matter. Looks Don't matter. Looks Don't matter. Looks Don't matter.
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[deleted] 6y ago
the entire game concept is bullshit. I'm studyng seduction since 2009 and guess what? I'm virgin at 29 because I'm short and bald. I've posted a pic of me here and people post it on lookism and incels websites. Teenagers on incels forums laught at my pics, even if I lift, eat right and being social everyday. Looks are everything, game is bullshit.
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[deleted] 6y ago
You're bald at 29? Wtf happened my man?
[deleted] 6y ago
I've start losing hair at 17. at 19 I went full bald.
LeftHookTKD 6y ago
You sound like a bitch tbh. You're 5'8 which is not short. There are examples of ugly fucks with girls all over the internet. These guys usually make up for it by getting huge.
roguefreezemission 6y ago
A man once said why would i lift when it's all about the face
420KUSHBUSH 6y ago
The sky is blue. People need water and air to survive. Everyone dies.
sigh
I'm pretty good looking, maybe not that goodlooking that even self-confidence doesn't matter but I can tell you for a fact that anyone attractive man can fuck things up easily. If anyone would like to back me up here, feel free
You wreak of insecurity, even while I'm looking at my computer screen
Spending money to go tryhard so you can have more sex. Has this sub taught you nothing?
Get this incel self-defeatist shit out of here
Memoliur 6y ago
If you consider yourself "pretty good looking" and still fuck things up easily, than you don't look as good as you think you do. Gosh, I hate this kind of attitude. Everybody that talks about the importance of looks is supposed to be an Incel nowadays, that's just hamstering at it's finest.
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420KUSHBUSH 6y ago
Couldn't have said it better myself. Completely agree with the last part of your comment
420KUSHBUSH 6y ago
That or maybe I'm ASPD. You know. Maybe, just maybe. Let me tell you something compadre, my self belief is going to get me a lot further than you or even me if I was more attractive than I am now. Looking good and fucking things up do not go hand in hand
Everybody that talks about the importance of looks isn't an incel nowadays, you are just doing it wrong. I explained it to you yet you completely missed the point. Hope you figure it out sometime soon
JamesSkepp 6y ago
Or he has shitty game. I see thing like that pretty often: hot guy, girls drool over him, he doesn't have game so it ends in nothing b/c he doesn't have anything else than looks to offer.
Future_Alpha 6y ago
I've seen the opposite. hot guy doesn't even need to try, girls throw themselves at them and all the guy has to do is invite her to his room/house to bang.
ugly guy can spit mad game, but unless he has social proof out his ass, girls won't be interested.
ViktorCage 6y ago
Your thinking is pretty much blue pill. I don't understand why you still lurking this subreddit if you don't learn anything valuable. Looks > Status.
420KUSHBUSH 6y ago
When did I ever say Status > Looks? Please find the exact sentence, I'm unable to
ViktorCage 6y ago
You said about that guy is an incel when he argues that looks offer many possibilities. I suppose you think differently, that's why I said it.
420KUSHBUSH 6y ago
I didn't call him an incel, I called this post having an incel vibe to it. Read about what I pointed out in his post and it will be clearer
[deleted] 6y ago
Looks and game both matter
What's the point of this essay?
mental_models 6y ago
Having significant Game along with one of the values (Looks or Status) are not mutually exclusive.
There's no reason to think of them as competing for your resources.
Everybody has to have game. It's not optional. It's not 'better' or 'worse' than one of the values, it's simply a complimentary skill.
Then, you are supposed to max whatever your highest value is (either Looks or Status).
victor_knight 6y ago
Yup.
lee4333 6y ago
The 80/20 rule, as highlighted in a recent post, is very applicable here. Will improving your looks improve your hustle? Undoubtedly. But spending that time elsewhere would likely return much better value.
blackedoutfast 6y ago
if you focus entirely on your looks and have zero game it status, you will be able to easily fuck a lot of fugly landwhales, but hotties will brutally reject you.
rmbarnes 6y ago
The game community massively undervalues looks.
A guy who's a 10 can get laid without approaching. Just post up at the bar and wait for the girls to approach him. He won't maximize his results like this, especially in terms of hotness of girl, but he'll still get laid loads.
[deleted] 6y ago
I will agree with most of what you said here, though it really does sound like you were a subscriber of Incels at one point (or still are).
My view has always been that Looks, Game, Money, and Status are like skills in a video game. You can spend points (time & effort) increasing one a lot, or many a little. And every woman has a skillcheck you need to pass with a certain amount of each skill to get her in bed. So you can increase one of these skills to the top percentile of people and get laid just based on that, or you can increase several to above average levels and get laid with that. And having one of looks, game, money, or status being below average will hurt you.
So yes, you can look like a Greek God and be a broke loser and still get pussy, or you can be a well off, above average guy and get pussy. There is no wrong way, so long as you're working on your skills. And this subreddit advocates increasing them all equally, so that you naturally have one that's very good, and the rest are above average. But it's all up to you.
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binarynightmare 6y ago
Post reads like a rushed regurgitation of the classic TRP posts. That being said, it isn't entirely innacurate. Model good looks are the quickest way to easy, effortless sexual experiences with women.
Unfortunately, until genetic editing is possible, model good looks are unreachable for most of the population, even with the right haircut, straight teeth, a low body fat %, and nice clothing.
Instead, most men can really only strive to reach 'not sloppy looking' or 'pretty good looking'.
Being at least 'not sloppy looking' is absolutely required for just about any level of game or status to matter. This is what will prevent you from being laughed off the field.
Anyways, back to the fallacy with this post. Yes, if you could choose to have perfect status, perfect looks, or perfect game - looks would be the go to for maximum partner count - but since it's not genetically possible, realistic advice is to max looks and pick up the slack in game and status.
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[deleted] 6y ago
Money can help you with gold-diggers. That's good if you just want to hook-up but what if you want long term relationships? Those women won't be attracted to you,only your wallet
chadwick_thundercock 6y ago
Great post.
I agree with you 100%.
"Just learn game bruh and be confident". I've seen guys with strong "game" and a lot of confidence get trumped by a good looking guy who literally just had to be there.
Looksmaxing goes hand in hand with personality and confidence.
[deleted] 6y ago
As someone born with a really goodlooking face from suuuuuch a young age. I cant agree with everything he says but it has been a ridiculous blessing that cannot be underappreciated in my life
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ChillOut4490 6y ago
Yes! Google acne no more by mike walden. The thing is though that you don't have to follow his 2 month program step to step but just keep in mind the principles of the book an you will soon eliminate the root cause of acne. If you are balding then google skull expansion theory by Paul Taylor.
saint_pill 6y ago
1: Ketogenic diet or at least don't eat > 20 grams of net carbohydrates per day.
2: No sugar, fruit, or cheap oils. Only olive oil. Eat tons of vegetables.
3: Make sure your Vitamin D is >= 50
4: Sleep with the sun, > 8 hours/night
scissor_me_timbers00 6y ago
What does sleeping with the sun have an effect on?
IdoNtEvEnWaTz 6y ago
Circadian rythm.
scissor_me_timbers00 6y ago
No I get that, but how does that tie to acne?
IdoNtEvEnWaTz 6y ago
Regulation of the body's natural processes. Hormones , etc.
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BigMawsmidget 6y ago
Each one leads to the next. Looks is not just your body it could be anything from the type of car you drive, how much you lift at the gym, what kind of job you've got.
Now some these things are status you're correct, but one thing I take into account now is women are more naive or ignorant then you'd think.
Good example of this take a 2005 used Porsche Boxster you only got it for 10'000, but had some things fixed and washed it looks brand new. All she sees is the branding. With no clue what the difference between 2005 and 2015 models actually are.
Remember she has a fantasy of you built into her head based on what you "Look" like.
NightwingTRP 6y ago
This is objectively wrong.
Firstly, status trumps all. Your argument against is so ridiculous I don't even know where to begin. Status is attractive while you have that status... just because it can be destroyed and thus go to zero, does not mean the status when it is had no longer has value. The chick still wants to bang the lead guitarist in the club. Stop posting and go back to reading for a bit.
Second, dick doesn't matter unless you have a micropenis. Learn sex god method and you'll be fine whatever size you're packing.
Third, you don't need or want to be a 10/10 because then you will have the problem of women disqualifying themselves as a social precaution. If you've never gamed attractive women who underrate themselves then you won't grasp this. Get out there and game more.
Fourth, under your method the kid without a perfect face and poor height is just fucked. This is untrue. Height and face are just negatives on the SMV judgement. Good dress, style, attitude and social proof can reverse this comfortably. You've got much still to learn young padawan.
roadkill_er 6y ago
“Third, you don't need or want to be a 10/10 because then you will have the problem of women disqualifying themselves as a social precaution“
Simply and eloquently put. People scoff at this idea but women put their guard up around 9.5-10 looks. When you’re very good looking, you’ve REALLY got to be disarming and unassuming in your approach - this is something only those who’ve experienced it can attest to. Women will disqualify themselves — at the same time, if you’re good looking and too funny they’re prone to relate to it more critically. I’m probably not making sense so bye. To bed...
Red_Faust 6y ago
While I agree with both of your comments, I have it incommensurately easier when I am more attractive and get more IOIs, to disarm myself, than to overcome my worse looks by gaming. And, dare I say so, my game is tight. Having done both, I prefer the former. Easier.
Source: I've been a fatso, or ripped, several times in my life, due to backsliding because of workloads, injuries and so.
Also a disclaimer: never been a 9.5-10. Maybe oscillating between 6-8. So my mileage may vary. Just wanted to throw in my 2c.
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103342 6y ago
Exactly. I would say height and face are the 2 biggest factors, with face being a little bit above height. Depending on how you rank with those two you pretty much don't need any game at all.
Status is pretty big also if you want to have sex with 8+/10 girls at will. Specially having a following on instagram and the like. The guys I know that are big on instagram will pretty much fuck 9/10s when they wish.
But, of course, there is always the risk of some crazy slut #metoo-ing you to oblivion. So I guess its better to just have looks and live your peaceful life on easier mode.
washington_breadstix 6y ago
What does instagram have to do with anything? Jesus Christ I'm only 26 and I feel like I'm too old for that shit.
[deleted] 6y ago
At the end of the day, you really don't need game. You just need a suave look, and grade A logistics and you'll get laid. If a bitch is horny, and you're the last man standing, it's hard to fuck up.
Ozymanberg 6y ago
This. Logistics, to me, is the bitchiest part of all of this. Especially if you live far from the city. You can have all the game and looks that you want but if you have to drive and hour back and forth from the city... That really sucks.
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StillHigh09 6y ago
Getting a good look makes the rest come easier. Whenever I go out with fresh haircut and new,good looking clothes I automatically get the right mindset and everything goes smooth. Women notice when you got fresh,clean shoes and a bright smile too.
The-Drapery-Falls 6y ago
Hahaha, I've had this exact experience multiple times.
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[deleted] 6y ago
You won't get any access to women without being attractive enough for her to want to fuck you. This is a green light toward sex and dating the same way a college diploma gets your job resume past the first cut.
Game is putting your skills to the test. Sometimes if the girl's really attracted to you, it makes it easier to run game. Running game isn't going to do shit for you if you dress like a dumbass, are scrawny or super fat, ugly etc.. It's just going to annoy the chick.
Have you ever had a gross girl run game on you at a party or something? Or just a girl who turns you off in one way or another and in your head you're thinking "Is she really this fucking retarded? don't talk to me". It's really the same shit for women getting gamed by low quality men.
That's not to say you should still put in effort and lose 100 times over, but I personally think looks and actually doing something with your life is more important than running game. That being said, they're both important just looks has more weight in the grand scheme of things.
Greek-God-Brody 6y ago
OP, I think you are being drawn back into social conditioning instead of Game/pickup conditioning. You also suffer from Menvy (Male on male envy), which is one of the lowest places you can be coming from as a man.
Social conditioning, to this extent, is the belief that to act entitled and confident around women, you have to be extremely handsome.
WINS(credit to RSD-Tyler):
Saberinbed 6y ago
Its like a guy complaining about never being able to go to the NBA because hes 5’2”
Yeah you lucked out and you’re ugly. You can either sit at home, jerk off and cry yourself to sleep, or be the 5 2 guy that bangs bare bitches. What are you guna do about it?
People just have a hard time accepting themselves for what they are, and just work with the hands you’re dealt.
This is definitely an incel posting this.
lifeisweirdasfuck 6y ago
This reminds me of the times I was browsing on lookism and sluthate “if you have no maxilla and strong jaw your life is done” fuck that shit
mental_models 6y ago
bitches don't want some incel that chews a mouthful of gum in hopes of having muscular cheeks... Looks to them means; seems to have good genes, seems to be good at fucking(built and can move), has style(if not well-groomed at least a 'rugged' style), 'bad' enough to seem to be willing to dominate men and women
If they see those things - it's exciting to have sex with you, and it's a proud thing to show you off to other women. It proves to the social group that the woman is hot shit.
They DO NOT want some homosexual who chews gum for jaw muscles, or uses the word 'looksmax' in any context.
NightwingTRP 6y ago
A brief education.
You should work on everything. Status trumps all, but there is no reason to avoid work on any particular area.
Your looks, status, indicators of wealth and fashion sense provides your initial SMV that a woman will interpret. (Hence why when it is laughably low, she has no idea why you'd approach her.) Game allows you to alter her perception of your SMV relative to her own. You need to be above hers but not too far above or she will disqualify herself as a social precaution.
Maxing looks is good... but it is not superior to game. It appears you're citing someone who can play pretti-boi game. i.e. they are good looking enough that by being beta, they reduce their SMV enough for women to think they can get them. These little boys get to have sex on easy mode, but they tend to have dysfunctional and emotionally unrewarding relationships that break off after a few months. Do not envy these men. Good game is far more important than looks as it gives you far more tools in the box.
5/10 for this post. Must try harder.
notastupid_question 6y ago
How to master game, what is game exactly. Yes I have read the sidebar, but what is the first thing to do practically to have "Game". ?
NightwingTRP 6y ago
Look up my TRP Field toolkit. It's covers all basic game, provides explanations and examples. If you can internalise it then you'll be ready to deal with 99% of the nonsense you encounter in the field.
notastupid_question 6y ago
AWESOME, I just checked it out, I will read it right away. Thanks man
hardly_incognito 6y ago
Spot on.
I'd say I'm a pretty boy, while it can be nice, it definitely leads exactly to what you're saying.
Looks are extremely important, and while I wouldn't advise any cosmetic surgery (unless you're horrendously ugly), it is of the utmost importance to lift, eat well, dress nicely, and have good hygiene.
That being said, I feel if a guy reading this has done the above for a solid year, & doesn't look like Quasimodo, then odds are he has weak game. Personally I can pull bitches, get makeouts, & even one night stands, but it's come to my attention my frame is weak.
Game & frame tie together. Your mental state of mind is the most important tool you have when it comes to women & life in general. Do the basics like I said to look good, but also realize that looking good doesn't make this shit that much easier if you still have the psychological frame of a boy.
Future_Alpha 6y ago
if you are an ugly boy - you'll have a hard time getting laid. Especially if you have a weak social circle.
I was told I have a feminine face....gg getting laid with that.
GoGetting 6y ago
Doesn't work. You only have so much "bandwidth" as Elon Musk says. There are exponentially diminishing returns the lesser your focus becomes.
Spread yourself too thin and you get no returns, then your motivation burns out, then you get nowhere. More powerful to pick one thing you can realistically tangibly improve, and really smash it.
Hopefully whatever goes into that can become habitual, at which point you move on to something else.
rmbarnes 6y ago
This is so true. At the moment my main priority is increasing my income, starting by getting a side business up and running. I'd also like to get good at daygame, but have to put it on the back burner to focus on business.
Someone has told me you can still be approaching all the time during the day and get lots of approaches in per week. The thing is it's not just about time. You can't just blindly approach, it takes a lot of mental resource to approach well during the day, unless you're already good at it. I just don't have the bandwidth to do that and build a side business.
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GoGetting 6y ago
Junk. We're not supermen. If Bill Gates had tried to become a bodybuilder, or Michael Jordan had tried to become a computer businessman, and they'd done so at peak physical output, they'd merely have ruined their lives.
Playing to your strengths is very important.
And you have one hell of a fury feed. You'd get a lot further in life yourself if you re-focused that anger on something productive.
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randomman45 6y ago
No, you will never get the chance to attempt any game if you dont meet the initial looks bar, which is often pretty high. And if you do get the chance you will need amazing game to keep up with a guy who has anything in the looks department. Being social, funny, having game got me very little from women. Lifting hard for 4 years, gaining 40 plus pounds of muscle, and caring about what I wear has made me go from near zero one niht stands to expecting one when I go out with that in mind.
NightwingTRP 6y ago
The fuck have you been reading? Incels?
The bar has never been lower with how pathetic the 80% is!
Your game sucked. Maybe it does still suck and your body improvement sorted you out and chicks think you're the hot retard. Or maybe you were massively overweight and trying to pass that off as not having a problem with your body. Fuck knows. All I know is, the bar for initiating has never been lower.
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randomman45 6y ago
I was 6'1" and only 130. Worse than overweight, I looked like an overgrown child. No amount of game over comes that shit. None. 4 years of lifting and getting to 175 does though. It isnt even so much about looks, as in looking like model, but looks as in being in great shape. My face is nothing great, and never will be, but now I get laid. Then I didnt even get talked to. You me,tioned how pathetic the 80% is, and you are right. What you dont seem to get is that for the 80% the game is minimal compared to improving looks, and being the 80% means those reading are likely on that side.
NightwingTRP 6y ago
I point to the RSD losers as example of game working regardless. One of their popular ones looks like a troll and gets laid with some decent women and other fatties... but he's still getting laid. The reason I know game works so well is I accidentally gamed a personal 10 who I thought I had no chance with in my blue pill days. As you can imagine that all went to shit eventually but the point was that despite the poor body, poor posture etc, confidence, attitude and accidentally running all the right game still worked.
Finally, you should ask yourself in response to this:
Do you see the endorsed flair? Given that I've been around much longer than you and I have material on the sidebar and an entire series on game... I "don't seem to get" the relative values of these things. Have a think on what you're saying and take a good look at your thought process. It appears to be based on the idea that you know everything, or at least you know something I don't. While the evidence and experience appears to suggest that if anybody had knowledge that the other didn't, it would be me. Perhaps rethink that thought process. Or don't.
randomman45 6y ago
I've lived in a few different countries now as well all while in the military (non combat, not claiming to be a bad ass), which has the a culture of one night stands, hookups and parties to the extreme. I've seen this over the last six years damn near every night, and listened to so many people who have issues with women. Every single one of them who lifted, and stuck with it now has an easier time of it. From Europe, to Japan. All the talk of improving game helps, but how does one get better game? By being more confident, and more experienced with women. If you look bad, you will be allowed fewer mistakes, and it is harder to get that experience. First hand I can tell you the difference between cute and creepy most times is what you look like. Even now I've seen a guy reported to HR for advances by a woman who has banged others, including me at work. Why did he get reported? He's fat, and has acne. Game maybe key for you, but most people who dont look good will never be given a chance to develop game is what I meant by asking if you get it. Not that you don't get how to pull women. The experience will be an all around worse learning curve if you dont lift.
Gobraves44 6y ago
I agree with op 100%. Looks gets you in. Game Is so overrated u have to be bad at it if you are a face guy.
[deleted] 6y ago
Try to look got but always have a strong game. It's that simple. Why not try them both?
JamesSkepp 6y ago
There's a diminishing return on looks. It tapers off around women who are considered 8s-9s-10s. That's b/c most of these women hang around hot guys. At that point looks mean nothing if you have no game.
IOW, "looks matter more" if you want to do low effort game on decent (but not top notch) girls that are below you on looks/SMV scale. If you want hotter girls, learn game.
Andgelyo 6y ago
Agreed. You need to have the whole package to truly slay. Personality, game, and looks will beat out a guy who just has “looks”. Need to one up the other handsome niggas
FirstNamesMusic 6y ago
I would say just focus on whichever is lowest in your value arsenal.
We all know value = social status + looks/genes + game.
To get a HB 8-10, all these things need to be equivalent to the "male" 8-10 accordingly.
In short, if you want a girl, your social status+looks+game have to all amount to her 8-10 value.
Though, I will point out, that to get 8-10, you HAVE to be attractive. That's just the starting point.
chazthundergut 6y ago
Quite true.
Once you break into the top 20%, you are best served by focusing on other areas that may be lagging.
Looks & physical fitness, frame & game, and social status. Aim for being in the top 20% of each.
StradivariusUkulele 6y ago
I completely disagree. Looks is a very complex topic.
Young girls (teenagers) value looks very highly, regardless of their own hotness.
Importance of looks also depends a lot on where in the world you are. For example, big American cities seem to be very superficial, whereas in Western Europe it won't help you much. In Eastern Europe only certain looks will help you.
JamesSkepp 6y ago
AWALT, thus local variance in how much looks matter where is incidental, it's your opinion not a rule.
randomman45 6y ago
"Most of these women only hang around hot guys" So the perfect game doesnt matter, as they aren't around you if you dont look great. Further proving the OPs point.
Dmva100 6y ago
THIS should be top comment
JamesSkepp 6y ago
They aren't around most men b/c it's a problem not of looks, but status and access the status gives. 9s and 10s usually hang out in high end venues, invitational parties and events. You're going to get invited if you have status, not looks (unless looks give you status, like a male model, athlete, actor - which still places priority on status as looks are tool to attain it).
eccentricrealist 6y ago
You can't compete without the minimum requirements
BigMawsmidget 6y ago
Wow just handclap I never did bother to think about this. There is at least a minimum requirements to run everything. What makes you think life would be different.
+1
nattyyyy 6y ago
You can game someone you dont hang around
randomman45 6y ago
How can you game someone who refuses to spend time with you, or talking to you because you dont meet the looks bar to pay attention to? You can't, it really is that simple. Looks open the door, game gets you inside.
TheReformist94 6y ago
For the 8s and above you need the game IN ADDITION TO LOOKS. Otherwise they'll simply just tell you to fuck off. In London, if you approach even a 6,some just disqualify you by just turning their back the minute say hi,so yeh,good luck delivering your "game". And to be honest at that stage I don't really want to game a girl who from the outset doesn't want to know you,given the fact she'd be creaming her pants at the instant sight of Chad.
As men it's not like we get raging boners for 8s and filled with disdain and disgust,which is what women do as they're entitled cunts.
Also the difference between looking slightly like shit and having a sharp haircut is like night and day,to the point that once my hair passes a certain point,I don't bother approaching.
This shows it's a very very fine line between what women will accept and treat like dog shit. Looks max accordingly peeps and don't let this sub feed you with hopium about looks Vs game
JamesSkepp 6y ago
Not b/c they are entitled per se. The context changed for them, they always had biological disdain for the "lesser" men but the problem is, before internet, perhaps even before mass media, their context of choice was "men they knew". Now they can see what is out there, so even the previous "alpha of the neighborhood" seems mediocre.
Good time to practice game.
Looksmax all you want, but don't rely mostly on our looks to pull. It's not enough to have a good gun, you also need to learn shoot it well.
TheReformist94 6y ago
Stop spreading the hopium and diluting OPs msg. People tend to come to the same realisation after about 3years of trying to "improve their smv". These are all deflections and impractical solutions you are provided.
These "incel" posts will keep cropping and cropping up for as long as the mods try to stamp it out. This is meant to be the red pill,not the purple
JamesSkepp 6y ago
I was a PUA years before I found TRP. From that experience as a PUA, I can tell you that if after 3 years of gaming you don't have consistent success - you're doing something seriously wrong.
Assuming of course that by "gaming" we both mean systematic, dedicated learning how to seduce women and not "I talk to a lot of girls on the weekend".
Flying_Wingback 6y ago
This should be top comment
sgurb 6y ago
Do you really think 8+ guys browse on TRP lol
SlothOnRoids 6y ago
I think I’m a hard 8 when I get my haircut and wear some of my best clothes.
I’ve learned a ton from this sub...it’s not just for ugly guys, being a stud only gets you in the doer you still gotta know how to act around really beautiful women.
sgurb 6y ago
Sure you're buddy boyo. I've seen 5`5 bald guys with round faces claim to be 8 here.
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SlothOnRoids 6y ago
i guess you’re right, oh well. I’m not going to post my picture on a forum with 250k subscribers. If you really think out of 250k people that read this sub are all ugly you’re pretty delusional though.
Not like I post often anyway, I just find the social dynamics between men and women pretty fascinating.
Legtats 6y ago
This is exactly why I'm here. I'm definitely an attractive guy and have no problems with women. I visit this sub all the time though. I'm usually off in my own world 24/7 and thus reading people's observations of social interactions are very interesting.
czech_man 6y ago
There are ones that reached it mate.
ReluctantSlimeball 6y ago
My experiences are pretty much the total opposite of this. Looks without game got me nowhere.
You describe you’re mate who got called cute.
Did she fuck him?
I got called cute, good looking... you name it (the dreaded “sweet” a lot) but without any alpha confidence or idgaf they still don’t wanna fuck you.
They’d still rather fuck the ugly alpha over the good looking nice guy.
Looks is huge. And I wasn’t a muscled-bound 6”4 of muscle and jaw but a good looking nice guy will struggle to get anything he’s actually attracted to.
LeftHookTKD 6y ago
This is true and how it was for me. You need both. A 300 pound ugly fuck is never going to get laid no matter how good his game is.
ReluctantSlimeball 6y ago
Yes it’s definitely a mix. But nowhere near as looks-oriented as Black Pillers attest to.
I’m guilty of discounting looks because they were worse than useless to me pre-game but really I have it good now as only a bit of lifting and alpha body language makes it effortless.
But looks without any game is a car without a fuel.
ViktorCage 6y ago
If someone doesn't believe in the power of looks, I would suggest to create a fake Tinder account and attract girls. You will be amazed how many hoes will give you numbers and snapchat profiles just to feel the power of the Chad.
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whuttupfoo 6y ago
Tinder isn’t real life. I don’t know why dudes bring this up.
washington_breadstix 6y ago
...What makes it "not real life"?
whuttupfoo 6y ago
Tinder is purely based on looks. Nothing else. Of course the guy with the top looks is going to get the most swipes. That doesn’t mean he’ll have more success than someone with money, status, and game outside of tinder.
LeftHookTKD 6y ago
If you use money to attract pussy, then you're only getting laid because she sees you as a potential beta provider.
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Awes0meApple 6y ago
most girls are on tinder for the attention and not for sex. most girls will flake a day or a few hours before the meet-up.
sgurb 6y ago
Don't ever take anyone here claiming to be good looking seriously unless they provide proof. A lot of guys here are delusional to the point they claim they're 8/10 when they're bald and 5`5 with average facial structure. Yes that guy exists and posts on TRP occasionally.
Frandaero 6y ago
Spoken like a beardless man. A thick beard can hide it all.
TRPnab 6y ago
A Google search of the term 'limiting factor' is very helpful
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sdfdds12 6y ago
looks dont matter i know from first hand experience. status is the most important. yes, women will want to fuck the david beckham in the room way before the danny devito but most people aren't either of those extremes and will do OK based on looks. idk maybe you're just ugly af and you look bad by comparison but in that case build status and money. Also, if you must put yourself in competition with good looking men (fightng over bitches is beta) it is not hard to outclass. be interesting. sell a dream. girls want to fuck the most attractive man in the room but not in the way men want to fuck the most attractive woman in the room. There is a sort of hierarchy of needs with women and sex and for any woman who isnt an absolute slut, discretion is first. Next is hygeine and social skill.(college is a different story sex is like fast food there[explaining how your shy friend lucked up]) After that it's all butterflies and building attraction and comfort and with enough of those wherever the fuck you lead her she will go. Being David Beckham makes this easier to do, but it's not necessary. And a woman will choose an ugly musician over the most attractive male model any day. Men and women see 10s every day. Be something she will only encounter once in her life. or buy a hooker idgaf
smanck 6y ago
I highly recommend investing in mastic gum. It’s like lifting weights for your jawline.
Shoregrey 6y ago
Women are vapid and shallow and not all in the same way. You either use that to your advantage or you don't.
Metalgear222 6y ago
Looks are an important part of SMV but still second to game. Fact is, there are going to be minimum requirements that are different levels for different girls. That's why its preached to raise all aspects of your SMV as best as you can. To cast the largest most effective net. There's too many factors relating to SMV and how women perceive it for this post to be accurate.
Gozsayin 6y ago
Hahaha looks are more important than game Fat chance! Looks are important however it's nowhere near as reliable as Game. This is because women A; have all different types of tastes in men and useless your born tall or go through some expense surgery chances are your just an average looking dude. Granted lifting will help shape your body but your not changing your basic face/height. Reason B is looks unlike game eventually fades and then your woman will most likely fade as well. If u care about looks so much the best thing you can do is lift and dress nice, this alone can undoubtedly help u get quick woman but in my experience woman with get bored( Game is also how to keep a woman around/looks will not help you here just ask most of male Hollywood).