"Why won't you sacrifice yourself for me like a REAL man!" - Typical western woman

"Why won't you sacrifice yourself for women like a REAL man!" - Typical tradcon man

weimar changed why can't we. The sacrifice I see, but I feel in our life time blood, conquest and a regret-less death bed is a payment that could be afforded to those who fought.

I married a nice trad con Catholic girl from the Philippines. I have a wife and blow jobs on tap.

Lucky me.

It all comes down to economic policy and government.

While you live in what is practically socialism, and big government has the power to intervene in affairs regarding marriage, tradcon is naught but a pipe dream.

The tradcons paradise from the 1940s to roughly the mid 1970s was short lived. Men only had to worry about one thing: putting bread on the table. They were still slaves to the tradcuck expectations, but they could have pretty wives that watched their figures and ran the house while the men could just work then come home and crash and ignore their figures. Men outside Hollywood and entertainment didn’t have to be pretty or fashionable.

Great post. One quibble:

They're not offering to save society for you. They're demanding you save it for their kids.

By "kids", I would have said "daughters". I've never seen a tradcon care about sons.

Let me know when you finally get your first blowjob. They are glorious!

https://youtu.be/2mmIEZKWi3A Thought I needed to share this. Literally women preaching red pill ideals.

I had never heard the term tradcon before, but from finding its definition just now I think it's a good description of what I've been for a long time, so I'd like to share my perspective on this if you don't mind. There seems to be a consensus among TRP mods and Vanguard about your views so I won't deny that you have accurately described what this sub is supposed to be about. But I also remember reading one of the posts from the sidebar where it said that TRP is a tool and how one uses it, is entirely up to him.

The way I see it, that's ultimately what me and the others (tradcons?) do. I've personally always felt that I wanted to serve a purpose higher than myself by leaving my mark in the world, and I've found the knowledge shared here to be a fundamental tool in that regard. I disagree that this idea makes me (us) bluepill(s). Indeed in the original Matrix triology, the ultimate and sole purpose of the red pill was to destroy the matrix and make things go back to what they were, to whatever extent possible. To me, the idea of just sitting back and enjoying the decline would make me feel like a coward.

You are right that things will never go back to being exactly like they were in the 20s or 30s. The sluts who've had a taste of life on easy mode at the cost of men, would never want to go back to the normal natural standard. But that unwavering conclusion does not diminish my desire to fight back one bit. If someone forcefully put you into a ring with a tank twice your size, would you cower like a little bitch just because you had no chance of winning the fight or making out of it intact? Me, I'd be happy happier if I could at least assure he wouldn't be smiling with his full teeth afterwards. And if there was a chance to win, no matter how small, then I'd try.

I believe there is a chance to win. 15 years ago, nobody thought that it would be possible for a man who talked about grabbing women by the pussy, to be elected president against a feminist woman. Nobody thought fervently anti-feminist personalities such as Milo Yiannopoulos, would attain worldwide fame and be able to make a living out of mocking feminists.

Undeniably, there is a cultural shift taking place in the west. Time will tell what we'll make of it.

There is truth to your idea that "tradcons" are doing it for their kids. But is our biological purpose in life not to survive and replicate? If one is to reject his biological purpose for the sake of avoiding future hardships, how is that any different than MGTOW?

The title of this post makes sense to me. The rest, doesn't. Heard about this sub via Twitter. Looks like I'll need a translation guide to under the conversation here. No thanks.

This is the problem I've always had with tradcons. They seem to be aware of the decline of western civ but they still adhere to the retarded weaknesses of the past. They still adhere to gender myths and the feminine imperative designed for a world where women had to have 7 children to have 3 survive, had no birth control, and would only live until 40, had a high probability of dying in childbirth etc. I no longer have any sympathy because that's simply not the world we live in anymore.

I keep finding it odd that people have such an issue with JBP and such but then I remind myself theres a lot of people that will still participate in idol worship and pedestalize anyone who espouses anything remotely RP in a public setting.

People need to stop having such a personal attatchment to ideas. Forced monogamy is an important concept that people should be aware of. If you dont understand the systems that we employed in the past and why they worked, we can never hope to make sense of the situation now and determine a new solution. Saying "this is why forced monogamy worked" is also opening the counterpoint of "here's why its not working now"

The women of today's society are utterly unsuitable for that type of fantasy utopia. Its predicated on their reward circuitry (among other neurological shit im not totally qualified to comment on) not being corrupted by the introduction of the reward of giving in to her hypergamous nature before she's paired bonded through marriage to a man who, ideally is her only sexual partner.

The gateway theory is more applicable to the first enjoyable substance you try than it is to weed alone. once you break the seal and cross the threshold from sobriety into your first real drug experience, it makes a fundamental change in the person you are. Alcohol can be just as much of a gateway in breaking down the barriers that inhibit a person from taking the risk of using a substance.

Sex mirrors substance abuse and vice versa. the most addictive drugs are the ones that most strongly effect the same pathways responsible for sexual reward. Forced monogamy only works when you get girls addicted to your dick and then pair bond through a social contract. The girls of today are much less suscept to addicting to just one dick when theyve been fed a healthy and diverse diet containing all the dick groups, since an early age.

She can only wonder what another man is like when youve been her only partner her whole life. Its a favourable state. She can, with greater ease, dismiss the notion that another man might fuck her better, having no supporting evidence

They lost the fight, why would you think they'll win the rematch?

Putin's Russia. Eventually, America and the rest of EU/NATO will collapse and get their own versions of Putin, autocracy, and the Orthodox Christian revival. Why would you think history is going to stop at the current status quo?

This will make a nice civilization epitaph: Their men just wanted blowjobs.

Tl;dr Who has more kids, wins.

I can't really argue with any of this, but I just can't give up on Western Civilization yet either. I guess there's some parts of my programming I'll never be able to ditch. It's called programming for a reason.

...but the tradcon "return to traditional values" is no more a real prospect for improving your existence than the "pie in the sky when die" offered by Christians, or communist's glorious utopia of the proletariat.

This is one of the most important points in this great submission IMAO.

If you think that traditional conservatism, feminism, or TBP are the only movements trying to hoodwink you in order to serve someone else's goals then you've got another thing coming.

TRP is all about questioning the bullshit in the sexual marketplace. If it doesn't lead you to question the bullshit in all aspects of your life then something is wrong.

I was reading this and understanding it. Then I read:

If I met you in person, I would eat your lunch and steal your girl.

No strings attached, full honesty: thank you. What a fucking wake up call.

TRP prefer to enjoy the decline.

Many think that it's nihilism but it's not. The key word is "ENJOY" the decline.

Could've been much shorter.

1. You can't help anyone until you've helped yourself. It would be idiotic to help you fix your leaking ship while mine is sinking.

2. If you've fixed your own ship and want to help others fix theirs; you can if you have a passion for that and I respect anyone that does. However, you aren't obliged to "pay your knowledge forward".

Anyway, if you've fixed your own ship you're leading by example which can be considered "paying it forward" also.

There is no need to save anything because all the liberal/progressist/SJW/58 genders bullshit is going to eat itself. Brexit and Trump are their political failures, and their societal end product are millions of "accomplished" but depressed post-wall women with double or triple digits N-counts as well as frustrated cucks and suicidal transgenders. Blessed will be the day when this degenerate nonsense will wipe itself out of the surface of Earth.

Everything is just ideas, The Left, The Right, Petersonism, Feminism, America, Russia, Money. Ideas Spawned from the minds of other men/women. People love to fall into some group or another so they feel like they're a part of something bigger. Tribalism. This is not unplugging. You're just another pawn in another mans scheme. Unplugging is seeing the facade that it is. Only then are you free.

That's not to say you can't enjoy fragments from the Left, or the right, or American food, or Russian woman or even Peterson's view on feminism. But only when you transcend the System can you think for yourself and manipulate it to work for you.

They can't fix western civilization in time to make a difference in your life. You are going to live the rest of your life in Upside Down Clown World.

This is the truth. Stop picturing a future that's any different from the ridiculous world we live in today. It's only going to get crazier.

My dad always told me, "look out for number one".

It's the most important thing you can do. You aren't effecting shit but your own fortune or misfortune. Stop trying to be a hero. Stop picturing a utopia. Accept things for what they are and start making moves that benefit your life.

Id much rather have a wife I love that loves me than a blowjob.. blowjobs aint shit

There is this image I once aw on the net that unlike 99% of the rest, it held a great message.

Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times.

If any of you like history, you'll see this pattern right away. It is all a cycle.

In the same way, when the left and liberalism take hold of the state together for a long time, it breeds dissidents that go to the hard right. The right takes hold, usually hand in hand with authoritarianism, and it makes people yearn for the left to come back, and so on.

Technology does make things absolutely more complex and fast paced, but we as humans have not changed one bit in our core since Egyptian times.

Edit: we are obviously in the "weak men create hard times" part of the cycle. Yes, enjoy the decline because as a particularly machiavelan character in Game of Thrones said "chaos is a ladder", and it is true. But I wouldn't lose all hope. We might not live to see it, but if history has taught me anything, men will bounce back and hold onto it for some hundreds of years.

I can't argue with your logic. Any reaction we have to the current society, such as becoming MGTOW, will not have any real effect in our lifetimes, if any. I consider myself a MGTOW, maybe out of necessity, as it empowers me to direct my priorities and responsibilities to my own life and well being, and not worry about women. However, one "project" that I have undertaken, is to provide my son with the resources and a better understanding of the true female nature. I have introduced him to the manosphere in hopes that he can navigate the sexual marketplace better than I ever did, and maybe that is where we all can at least help out our sons and grandsons. At least now we have so many more resources to help us connect the dots. I am like a lot of guys my age who wish they would of known this Red Pill knowledge 20 or 30 years ago.

Idealistically, tradcons would have us believe that we can return to a much "simpler" time. Technology as well as the current culture will probably prevent that from happening. We all remember a much "simpler" time when we were kids. But we were kids. If you go back and look at the old news footage, it becomes self-evident that those were turbulent times as well. Knowing this, I would have to agree with you that one needs to navigate society as it is, and with the best tools that you have.

Men who refuse to form a family, make and reaise children -> you abandoned the western civilization

Women who refuse their traditional role -> they abandoned western civilization.

Where are they now? In western decadence. Same place, different mind. And You are advocating for western decadence.

Of course, so called "tradcon" who accept divorce and abortion are in the same ship as you: western decadence.

It's crazy to me how many times in my life I've been suckered into living out someone else's version of the "ideal" man. Hard to break the cycle, and I agree, we won't get back the good 'ol days; and those days were not as good as people with rose colored lenses perceive. I was watching birds fly recently and realized the males have it down, multiple mates, total freedom from social norms, and the fuckers can fly. Our entire existence is defined to us as being a cog in the machine, fuck the machine, we didn't build it and we don't have to keep it going through participation.

Society is declining because the few who are aware of it's discipline would rather enjoy the pursuit of easy pussy rather than engage to change it's direction.

Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men and weak men create hard times.

Whisper is the product of good times.

Our forefathers knew of the sentiments expressed within the red pill, it's only within our context that such common sense truths spoken by us and men like Dr Peterson are seen are a subversion to the status quo.

The zietgeist of a strong patriachal figure, religion, gender roles, were established structures to promote healthy sexual dynamics and to control / mitigate the negative.

The suggestion that the degeneracy of societies cannot be altered or refashioned is uninformed by anyone with any understanding of history. 1920's Weimar republic was as bad if not worse than today's society, mass unemployment, rejection of faith, flag, family, fatherland. A decade later this nation conquerred all of Europe with an even more radically ultraconservative platform.

I don't accept tradcons will restore society, but the society that emerges from this one will hold true the same sentiments. As Tolstoy said "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

"they want you in a fight you can't win, against a foe you can't defeat, for a prize you don't want, in a future you will never live to see."

if I was not a fucking selfish egoist man, I would give you gold for this.

I feel like a lot of Tradconism hype is nothing but nostalgia for a time that never even existed. People envision the "Leave it to Beaver" type family and think that's how it really was. One of the main laws of TRP is you cannot negotiate desire. Divorce was taboo back then so when a woman was bored of a man she couldn't just bail out and gain half his assets like the women of today. That doesn't mean these men were respected, still receiving none starfish sex if sex at all and infidelity was high. Especially if you go back to war times when men would leave their family to fight. If you think his wife wasn't spread eagle while he was gone then you're naive. People desire a time period that was never real. It's interesting that you said Tradconism pays more into the female imperative than anything. I never really considered that but you're spot on. These women often got to sit home and cook and clean and raise the kids while hubby went out into the world and toiled away everyday. Not to say that child and house care aren't without merits but compared to waking up to a grueling 9 - 5 factory job everyday I would say it beats it out. Interesting thoughts there.

Guys, how can we complain about the lack of tradconism when we spin plates?

Traditional values are like the Amish.

The Amish have decided that the 1800s was just precisely the right amount of technology. How they arrived at this decision I'm not exactly sure.

Have you noticed how "traditional" values almost always center around, say, the 1950s? Like this was the perfect amount of values and morality. It's just as silly as the Amish and technology.

Those of you who are pinning your hope to the alt-right as a substitute to traditional conservatism should also think again. It's basically socialism for wypipo.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RichardBSpencer/status/817841576248561665

https://mobile.twitter.com/RichardBSpencer/status/859175144538996736

Eat my girlfriend and steal my lunch sir. You deserve it!

This kind of reminds me of a comment I read here on Reddit when a chick claimed that her husband could share a hotel room with Scarlett Johansson but believed that he would do "nothing" with her.

I was like how delusional could you be.

The world wasn't a much better place 20 - 50 years ago. We just had a MUCH smaller, unfocused sample size then we do now with the internet. This shit has always been going, and yes it has gotten worse, but its not like its a new problem or has gotten horribly worse. People who want to see the evil in people will search for that on the internet and people that want to see the good in people will do the same. Trying to bring society back to a state where it never truly was is idiotic.

To change the world you must change yourself first, and in doing that you will soon realize this is not only true for everyone, but it is a path you must find and be strong enough to walk down alone. No one can change you but you. I could walk into your house everyday for a month at 5am, scream at you to get up and get to the gym and you would probably do it because I can be very loud and convincing. After a month you might start doing it yourself, but if I suddenly stop for a week many of you would begin to sleep in again and forgo the gym because that requirement of shutting me up isn't there anymore.

The same is true with society and women in particular. If there is no reinforcement to do otherwise then the easiest, most convenient path will be chosen most the time. You will never take down Instagram, snapchat, tinder, etc so you will never remove that reinforcement to get "likes" and "validation". The poison of these sites is that it put a measurable value to "validation." Before Instagram, yeah women knew Sally HB9 got more attention then them when they went out, but they could hamster it away because the sample size was always small. Plus if they got a guy it really didn't bug them much that Sally got the hotter guys of the group. But now, Sally gets 10K likes on everything she posts and Amanda HB6 only gets 100's. You will never provide a reinforcement strong enough to make that "validation" inconsequential in women you never meet in person. All you can do is provide a reinforcement for the women in your life that is more valuable then the online "validation" she is going to get. Women know online "validation" is almost meaningless. I mean honestly how much effort does it take me to "like" a picture of just another fit chick with nice tits? a second? maybe 2? It is also incredibly toxic when women realize pictures of their tits and ass get 1000x more likes then instagram quotes and their cats. If you have ever watched an instagram hoes profile evolve its like clockwork

First it's wholesome and personal, friends and family kinda stuff. Then that one picture that shows a hint of ass or cleavage shows up and it gets 100X times the likes then all the others. Not only that now guys are all friending this chick in hopes of another hint of cleavage. Slowly but surely more and more revealing pictures show up until the whole page is just pictures of her ass and tits at different locations you could give fuck all about. Yeah I'm sure you really were taking a picture of that beer and your DD's just happen to be taking up the bottom half of the shot.

The only way to compete with that is to work on yourself and make YOUR "validation" more valuable then online "validation". Betas do this by trying to provide material things, but they do this upfront. So their validation is tied to that mechanic, Blue pilled man gives woman something validation goes up. The problem now with this mechanic is women have realized they control this mechanic. So a women can just acted displeased or validated by another source and instantly more blue men will just throw more and more stuff at her until her default state just becomes annoyed as it gets her what she wants from him.

So stop trying to fix the world, you can't. It has and always will be "broken". Work on yourself and make your value like a drug, one they can't help but get addicted to. Because at the end of the day your going to be filling the hole she craved into herself the minute she join the online validation treadmill. If she doesn't want off that treadmill then let her walk straight into the wall.

Don't save her, she don't wanna be saved.

You can’t turn a whore into a housewife. This applies at the meta level to societies too

Society is made up of individuals- the best way to preserve the valuable parts of Western Civilization is to get your own shit together. If enough people right their own ships we might avoid sinking.

You want to save Western Civilization? Lift, fuck bitches, get money, own your shit. Be an inspiration to those around you to be as awesome as you are, lead by example. And stay away from self sacrifice.

I don't really approve of this part of TRP theory. True, society as we know it is crumbling, and much of this decay is rooted in the intrapersonal relationships between men and women. However, we can't just "enjoy the decline" and let it all slide away. Our ancestors built civilization and I'll be damned it I don't uphold it for my descendants.

I see a post by Whisper. I save. I read a few times.

These things are simple.

Tradecon is selling this idea to men: to voluntarily put on the yoke of labor called "traditional male value", and slave away time and money just to provide for women in the hopes that women will reciprocate; to be nothing more than oxen to satisfy the feminine imperative.

Swallowing TRP in toto means to give up that yoke of slavery, be a man of your own destiny, and make your own path in this world.

The nuclear family was a social construct that ensured comfort and prosperity for the society at the cost of our natural sexual selection of our species.

It was created to put a leash on human's natural promiscuity.

Even though we have tipped the balance against men with the government's intervention in single motherhood and the rise of social media, I believe we are more close now to how nature had intended. Even if we hate this.

Nature doesn't care about comfort. Only the fittest survive through chaos.

Just look in Africa where there are no rules in some countries. Men rape, abandon their families, and get killed in fights. What does nature do about it? High birth rate

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Wasn’t this the same shot that brought down Rome? I swear there was a post with the Roman Empire as a comparison but I can’t find it..

the fuck is tradcon pundit ?

This might be part of human evolution. As for now, men will definitely work to reach their apex and for those who can't keep up, well, natural selection. And in time, society will be like star trek, people would strive to work for the betterment of man kind where productivity is valued more than entertainment. People will then strive more to be scientists than to be singers or actors because by then it is what society celebrates. People will be strong and intelligent. This all sounds like bull crap but at this rate, it may just happen.

Fantastic read on a sticky topic.

It makes sense why many in TRP would think they’re aligned with tradcons. If I’m understanding your point, these red -tinted sheep are signing up to be slaves to men instead of to women... but they’re still slaves. TRP promotes autonomy in its purest form, in an incredibly social way.

upvote upvote upvote

So what do I do now?

I like how you ended this piece. Its been hard watching one of my best friends in life get married. He's too blue pill conditioned for me to help him. There's a much grander narrative on a cultural scale going on that makes me kind of sad and feel lost in it. Can't help but get philosophical and imagime how people 20 years from now will see our culture.

You are going to live the rest of your life in Upside Down Clown World

In fairness, you can fucking move.