This is our weekly askTRP megathread where no question is off limits as long as it's TRP related. Ask your questions and members who have been around longer can chime in and let us know what they think. As always, if you're brand new here, please make sure you've read the sidebar.
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DryExit 5y ago
Recently, I have been struggling with motivation and discipline. I used to wake up every day and want to read, lift, and improve myself. Furthermore, if I didn't want to, I forced myself to. How do I get back into this?
IBeMadToo 5y ago
Favourite audiobooks (preferably available on Audible)?
riggerino 5y ago
I need a accountability partner, anyone up for it?
I don’t want to post on the get disciplined subreddit cause most people on there have very different goals.
[deleted]
huskydoge69 5y ago
Girl asked me to go to the Deadpool premiere with her, when i asked her if its only us two, she said yeah, but i could bring someone if i wanted to. I told her no, it’s okay just the both of us. Any advice on how to turn this into a date or something?
[deleted] 5y ago
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zyzzguido55 5y ago
I would ghost her for a while. When the feelings have settled down every now and then you can smash (although be wary of feelings). As soon as you pump, kick her out and don't do anything else with her.
The safer option would be to complete ghost forever.
Ackcell 5y ago
I’ve posted this Q a while back but failed to get the answer I was looking for so I figured I’d try again:
I remember reading about a group of men in ancient times who swore off women and spent all their time on self-improvement and making themselves more beautiful.
But I can't for the life of me remember where I read it or where these men existed. I think I read it here on TRP and that it was from an ancient Greek epic or something like that. But I'm not sure.
Please help me remember. Thanks!
Insendi 5y ago
Best study habits? Classes start in a couple weeks for me and I’m getting a head start so I can do well in the class
Skuggasveinn 5y ago
What's the difference between hypergamy and plate theory? They both seem to rely on the premise on keeping your options open for better people?
Although, as I understand it hypergamy is defined as something hardwired into women and plate theory is learned.
Hypergamy has orbiters and plate theory has, well, plates.
The difference doesn't seem to be that much if any.
Please correct my wrongness.
necropoly 5y ago
Do you need to be an asshole in order to get girls/plates or can you be a nice guy but have boundries and hold frame at all times and still get girls?
What about a LTR?
LeoMessiD10S 5y ago
What's your opinion on Elisha Long youtube channel? His last video "How life is cucking you" is amazing. Just plain truths. Direct and to the point.
Iwannachokekatie 5y ago
Is not wanting to be actively going after chicks until I start getting random IOI when shopping, going out etc., a bad mindset?
[deleted]
madrealworld 5y ago
hit the gym. make friends there.
[deleted]
[deleted]
[deleted] 5y ago
Hey all,
Not sure if this is a place for saying this shit but I gotta get it out somehow
I recently broke up with my girlfriend of 2 years, it was a good relationship, we loved each other (or so I thought) and I even had planned to get married with her one day (we talked about a future together extensively)
Im having a pretty rough time with it; I ended up messaging her a few days ago letting her know how I felt and wondering how she was handling things, I basically spilled my heart out to her once again. (My fault)
She left me on read for 4 days, until I messaged and asked for a response; long story short she is with someone else now.
What fucking baffles me is how someone could go from "I love you" every day for 2 years to being with someone else; it hurts and I know its for the best but what the fuck??? This shit isn't right, no matter how it has to play out... I am learning that there may have been love, but it was never true as it didn't last.
If anyone can kind of give me advice on how to let go or move on, or any of their thoughts on this, let me know. I can take whatever yall gotta say.
One thing i will not do is jump to another person right away, as i need to get over her before i move on.
madrealworld 5y ago
she was never yours it was only your turn and now your turn is over
[deleted] 5y ago
Yeah man, so much for "forever"; why the fuck are people like this? She was everything to me
madrealworld 5y ago
you should be the only everything to you
[deleted] 5y ago
You're 100% correct, I know that everything I need is within me, not out there; there is no reason to look for gratification from someone else as that is not going to help me with my shit.... just going to rely on others to make myself feel good, which is not what I aim to do
throwaway-aa2 5y ago
There was some post about fitted cheap clothes being better than expensive clothes. Where is that post at?
Meisner1 5y ago
I'm a Christian, my question is, does red pill philosophy work well with Christian girls as well? Especially in the West? I'm still looking for that long term relationship stuff.
Also, i need tips on building trust between a couple.
COCAINE_ADVOCATE 5y ago
What's the weird stigma around here with eating pussy? I keep seeing it in the context as being a beta attribute.
I fucking love it, and I use my long monkey arms to reach up to her neck and hold her down while she cums-- if you're doing it right it's a very dominant act.
An_Actual_Politician 5y ago
I've been combing the TRP citadel here for 4 months now and haven't gotten that impression.
I think the overarching narrative is to be dominant with sex, but as you correctly pointed out there are plenty of ways to eat pussy and even ass and still dominate.
Besides that, it's a good way to get them off so you can REALLY feck them without concern of leaving them hanging in the orgasm dept.
falconiawillfall 5y ago
How do you differentiate between girls wanting attention vs. actually down to hook up?
YouDontKnowMeHeHe 5y ago
Since I started reading TRP my opinion about most of my friends drastically changed. Now I see all BP shit they do and most of the time IDGAF but lately it's starting to bother me. Problem is we have a plan to do something and girl jumps in and guy cancels plan so he can be with her or we go for drinks and in the middle of our drinks he goes to his girl cause she called him or I ask him to do something and he declines, girl asks him to do the same thing and he does it imidietaly. Any advice what to do? Should I just NGAF, dump him? Kinda lost here
RedPillStudy 5y ago
Hijacked a askTRP post and wrote this.
What if you’re pretty decent at shooting the shit and making friends for the most part, but like this guy said most guys are either soyboys or pussy worshipping betas (yes guys in gym are mostly this)?
Would this community be interested in a thread or sub that helps us look for other red pillers in the area? I know most guys here like the anonymity, but obviously it can be of your own accord.
Also how cool would it be to find a potential bro/best bud as a TRP accountability partner. Would be good for guys like me who just moved to a new area or needs to replace his beta friends.
What you guys think?
cannibalstreudel 5y ago
Personally I wouldn't. Sex is such an important part of my relationships I would never close myself off without knowing it'll be there for me when I want it.
Your choice man, but I'd never commit to a girl before fucking her
batarafu 5y ago
I am in monk mode at the moment and have been reading a lot of theory. One theme that comes up repeatedly is how your attention is your most important weapon/asset. I am a little confused as to how you can initiate (ask out) or approach while rationing attention at the same time. Can someone explain the role of attention and how to direct it in early game(approach/first few dates)?
FeelTheBernieSanderz 5y ago
Are there any threads / red pill guides you can recommend on the delicate art of building friendships?
I'm improving a lot but unfortunately due to my socially reclusive years I didn't build a single real friendship my entire life (I was never good at reading social cues).
As an adult I feel other adults have long formed their social cliques, and while I have fulfilled other goals, I feel 'social proof' is one lacking 'documentation'.
Skuggasveinn 5y ago
Join a club. Start a company. Volunteer.
[deleted]
circlingldn 5y ago
wow, you shouldnt even be on the redpill
FeelTheBernieSanderz 5y ago
Feel free to expand
I've made many acquaintances but nothing concrete
circlingldn 5y ago
lot of idiots on this site
delete social media hurr durr monk mode hurr durr
if you dont have social cliques go visit a clinical psychologist and a psychiatrist
(idiots on here think exercise meditation etc can beat clinical depression for everyone)
Wimba61 5y ago
I would like something like this as well...
[deleted] 5y ago
Where should one start if they want to hold a little crypto? Just to throw my hat in the ring & diversify my investments.
midgetpooooo 5y ago
Thoughts on the Bird motor scooters appearing everywhere in big cities? Personally, guys I see on them look stupid.
Wimba61 5y ago
LTR is beginning to act less interested... What do I do? Next her? Or deepen TRP behaviors to deepen attraction.
And if I am to next her, should it be a Hard next or let her down easy? We go to the same church...
zachpw 5y ago
Anyone have advice on how to eliminate processed foods for good?
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
I highly recommend not putting them in your mouth. That should fix it.
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[deleted]
Pragmaticpandas 5y ago
Meal plan, meal prep, stay disciplined. Simple but not easy
marcusmccambridge 5y ago
TRP newbie here. 17yo. Should i practise my game on chicks in my school when I'm at parties that seem to be into me, even if i don't want to get them? It seems like it would be easier to practise on the more eager chicks, as i have no game at the moment (just discovered TRP last weeek)
cannibalstreudel 5y ago
I'd say no. Without an attraction within you you're only going through the motions and not learning anything.
[deleted] 5y ago
Not a question but I don’t know where else to put this, im simply elated. I’m in an LTR and I noticed recently my girl has been somewhat entering bitchy territory. I’ve heard of TRP and have applied the concepts loosely here and there naturally, once I started reading I was like “oh shit this is me!” Just a little more refined and deliberate. So I wrote some basic bullet points of how I was going to change in my phones notes, a mantra of sorts. “Pass shit tests, develop yourself, build a life, condition your availability and compliments, dress well,” that’s what I wrote. It’s only been about a week of implementation but the results are awesome. She’s calling me babe, baby, etc. constantly, called me “just to hear my voice” and sent me booty pics as a “preview” of her coming over later. It’s honeymoon-phase shit and we’re not even in that phase anymore. This stuff is great and you guys are an awesome community. Looking forward to a happy and healthy relationship with myself and my girl!
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
You're doing well, but fundamentally you need to learn not to try to "build something together" and to see your relationship as transient, and to work out how to be fine without her.
She's not yours, it's just your turn.
[deleted] 5y ago
I just want thank you guys for pump and dumping these roasties, and lowering their self-esteem when you ghost them.
It's literally my life fuel.
throwaway35626362 5y ago
Can someone links on how to pass male shit tests, I keep getting called clueless and ignoring the person isn't working
Chaddeus_Rex 5y ago
"You are clueless"
"Says the fatass" (guy doesnt have to be fat for this to work)
Cesare_MA 5y ago
Just make fun of the dude in a joking way.
[deleted] 5y ago
what is the next big milestone in your life that you are about to hit ?
gorebwn 5y ago
I'm close to a 500lb deadlift ORM, I'm fucking amped on that.
Whats yours?
[deleted] 5y ago
About to finish school for good & get my business underway.
gorebwn 5y ago
Hell yeah dude. That's a huge step. Keep the momentum
[deleted] 5y ago
You too!
Also, Ive heard of 1RM buts whats ORM....
[deleted]
gorebwn 5y ago
I have a personal aversion to mixing numbers and letters in abbreviations, you know what I mean
[deleted]
Weezus420 5y ago
This has to be answered somewhere...
Is it possible to actually have a loyal, hot, smart, young GF that I actually enjoy hanging with? I just rarely see these stories. Usually stories like this start with, "I swear she wasn't like the others!"
I think I have developed great frame over the past 8 months, but I am still just waiting for her to fuck up. My feeling this way is probably from reading RM, these forums and from personal experience. She is 23, I am 30. She gets hit on constantly, every guy we pass will take a peak. (She hates wearing bras and has nice titttayz, yoga body) I am an Alpha frontman in a rock band. Girls hit on me in front of her so that keeps her in check pretty sure. I inadvertantly refer to my SMV often and she always agrees. My biggest reason for frame has been not having STDs which I think could be a great angle for many of you. This girl has not been with many guys and with more women actually. (yes very cool). Now she has a phobia of getting STDs so both of us were tested before we started fucking...a few months later after we were LTR status, she found out I had been spinning a plate with herpes before we were LTR(dumb I know). Anyways, it caused a big scare when we fucked too much while on vacation and we both had sores from fucking so I felt like I had to come clean incase that was indeed herpes...(yeah that was a tough one to bounce back from ha). Anyways, after we were both retested, that has been her biggest reason for staying loyal to me is that neither of us want to get an STD or have one. Condoms can't protect you from someone on herpes who is shedding and lots of people lie about that kinda stuff...
Anyways, what do you guys/gals think? Are there actually women who don't fall to the norms? Or have I just set good frame? She has read parts of the book and agrees with some of it. For example, I have pointed out certain guys in her life and she doesn't hang out with them anymore after me proving their intent. My biggest point, "How many female friends do I have that I hang with?" Her: "Zero". "Exactly! How many female friends do your 4 older brothers have?" Her: "Zero" "And they fuck a lot of chicks right?" Her:"Yes." "Exactly, any guy doesn't voluntarily want to hang out with a chick unless it is for fucking or they are a relative of some sort."
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
Sure, for a time.
how do you know.
no, you're just her alpha for a while. enjoy it.
Weezus420 5y ago
What's considered a lot of guys? She's only had 1 other serious male bf. She was a lesbian for 5 years, fucked around with guys/gals after her GF died in a car crash. She's a terrible liar and I made the mistake of finding out all the people she had fucked or fooled around with shortly after I got to know her. Forgot about the rule not to mention or ask about past lovers.... It's definitely been a pain hearing from her about my exes and a pain knowing about the guys (some that I know) that's she's fucked around with.
I did have to wait a couple weeks to fuck her (I know), but we were doing everything but that and I was still spinning plates and told her, and I know she had some feelings after her being wild for a year of "okay, time to stop risking getting STDs" because her conditions for fucking were that we both went and got tested. I figured it was time anyways, and we both were clean and have been fucking clean since!
She makes me dinner, wants to be around me, fucks me AMAZING all the time, and buys me dinner and drinks and vacation shit with money she doesn't have. So I know I am running at at least 80% efficiency minus a few fuckups here and there. I am enjoying monogamy which is weird...but for how long is the question.
The trickiest part is that I really do want to believe that she has never fucked around on me and that very well may be the case....but I just have been fucked around on plenty of my life to know better. However this girl comes from a good family, good fathers, 4 older brothers, college education, good job, morals, and that can make a big difference in the woman. I like to think Rational Male is all about what women to avoid instead of a handbook of how every woman is. So I dunno! I totally think the is AWALT haha, but this is nearly impossible for me. I do talk about the book to her often and she has read some of it and agrees with most of it...but I think she really must be THAT loyal or she is incredibly sneaky which she doesn't seem smart enough to pull it off..
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
What about the non-serious ones? What about the one night stands?
Look, n-count may be one as described. Or it might not.
Um... okay...
What's her bodycount exactly?
Sounds great. And it can really be this great. For a while.
I don't know how to explain to you that women who were a lesbian for a while and then switch to men are not exactly the monogamous marrying kind.
It's probably as it appears. Enjoy it. Relationships are great fun and can be very satisfying.
The problem is that men tend to think they are onto a good thing, invest in her and the relationship, commit too much. In any case sexual attraction from her side will dwindle after 1-3 years. It seems to be a biological law.
Women change when they get commitment. It's so hard to believe that she won't always be like this. That commitment will kill her sex drive. Maybe you just need to learn this for yourself.
Weezus420 5y ago
Thanks for response. You make a lot of great points.
Only 1, ONS as far as I know.
Body count 3 females and maybe 10 guys as far as I know. Not sex with all of them...
Yeah, part of me is getting over her and that initial spark. I will ride it out and bail if it starts sucking or she fucks up. It's good motivation for me to get lifting/working out more frequently.
I don't really want to marry so that isn't an issue. I just hate sharing with other guys. I really don't care if she's fucking around with hot chicks and if I lose her to a lesbian, well I would get a kick out of that haha. She does discuss marriage/babies at least a couple times a week...She went from "never marrying" to "if I did have a wedding" and went from "baby in early 30s" to "baby around 26". I told her the other day, no more baby talk unless you are planning on having a baby.
Very good point. She's almost 23, getting a little too old for me anyways...
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
haha epic
wear a fucking condom
[deleted] 5y ago
[deleted]
Weezus420 5y ago
NOOOO! Jking. I have been preparing and enjoying my time.
COCAINE_ADVOCATE 5y ago
I've had a couple experiences with a girl shaking a bit as things escalate while she's clearly DTF. Especially inexperienced girls obviously. Have a date tonight with one that was shaking like a leaf over coffee.
Ignore and keep going? Or tap the brakes a bit?
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
If she's shaking but not steering the encounter away from further intimacy, it probably means she's honestly not very experienced but eager to move forward. Look at her whole body language: Leaning toward you, looking at you, touching or responding positively to your touch? Interested! Leaning away, feet pointed away, looking anywhere but at you, shrinking away from you? Probably not interested, and I bet you won't see her shaking in this scenario either, unless she feels literally trapped.
Read up on push-pull and try to get a mutual, unspoken back-and-forth escalation going. Get her involved and invested in the process. Flirting and gaming done well becomes fun for both parties.
COCAINE_ADVOCATE 5y ago
Thank you sir! For some reason it really turns me on when they're shaking, just want to make sure it's for the right reasons.
[deleted] 5y ago
Is it better to walk around with palms open or closed fists?
[deleted] 5y ago
It's better to walk aroud not caring about this
[deleted]
Entropy-7 5y ago
I agree with u/pm_me_your_pantry
But if you get self conscious about it then either lightly touch the tip of your thumb to the tip of your index finger, or hold it loosely like western soldiers do when marching: sort of like a fist but pull the pinky in tighter, extend the index knuckle, and then put the thumb on to of the "Y" crease of the index finger. This is a reasonably good picture. Of course, you don't "march", just walk normally.
[deleted]
NandoRods 5y ago
How do you guys feel about girls who use drugs to have fun?
gorebwn 5y ago
The question is how do you feel about it? Personally, I don't care at all
TheSadListener 5y ago
As a younger man, I was all about them. As I've gained experience, though, I've found that there's usually an underlying reason for those who depend on drugs, alcohol, or other distractions - including the digital drugs of modern social media. And it usually ain't pretty.....
silver_flash2077 5y ago
I’m new here and still pursuing through the remainder of sidebar material. I see that The 58 laws of power and stoicism are big contributors to our philosophy, but should I go for The Art of Seduction as well?
RP085 5y ago
I have a conflict of thoughts about a specific issue and I would appreciate the input of a seasoned veteran to help me attain a clearer bigger-picture perspective.
I have the understanding that being very cold/cruel with women, with an attitude of "control"/domination, them yielding to your command/power, doing what you want to do, and crucially, feeling like there is an element of "threat" to you like you are dangerous, conducting yourself without empathy, makes them feel very turned on by you and attracted to you and they submit like puppies, and they even fall in love with you.
Despite understanding this, I find it difficult to conduct myself with the lack of empathy that defines such a presence, in relation to women (or to people in general, for that matter). Time and time again I make the mistake of still being "nice" to a certain extent (despite—at least in my estimation—being fully red-pilled), which I can clearly tell always makes them ever-so-slightly switch their energy into a more bitchy/dismissive/uninterested mode, which of course elicits the response on my part of making them cut that shit short by withdrawing approval and holding frame. (Why do they always need to be spanked in order to be nice; why can't they just fucking be nice? {rhetorical question}).
Mind you, I'm not talking about being weak in my behavior/demeanor, much less being pathetic or a doormat (doing typical bluepill things like worrying about her approval and following her around, deferring to her); I'm talking about a simple inclination towards treating them with what I imagine to be a human decency and courtesy that will make them feel seen, heard, appreciated, welcomed, etcetera. And yet, they still go weak in the knees and hazy in the head for that cold ruthless mothafucka who emits that aura of... "I could kill you. Watch it".
The biggest reason I have an inclination to be "kind" to women (with a full intent to remain masculine, without being feminine or weak/beta) is because I have this notion that they want a man who will understand them, help them feel safe, heard, loved, etcetera.
...and yet, they always go crazy for the dangerous beast and seek him first. Hypnotized by that heartless dick-power, needing it, being addicted to it.
A left-brained person will tell me: "Well, just be like the ruthless male, idiot". But I have a stubborn inability to just switch behaviors without understanding the mechanisms underlying the dynamics at play. Specifically, I find it necessary to understand the psychology of the women, before commiting to deliberately modifying the way I am or the way I behave. I gotta have a clear reason, which comes from clear vision.
And the logical part of my mind says that if I were completely "heartless" like that, they would of course fucking love it, but I have a hard time believing that women actually want that demeanor always, without ever getting tired of it. I have a hard time believing that women can truly want to give themselves, with their whole heart, to a merciless bastard who will treat them without empathy in pretty much all circumstances.
So I'm conflicted because one part of my mind says: "They love it, they want it. They will love you. They will want to be 'loyal' to you" (or at least feel like they want to give their full devotion to you, in their solipsistic, heat-of-the-moment, emotion-driven daze). But another part of my mind says: "Don't be a fucking idiot; that kind of thinking is autistic. No 'normal' person behaves that way. You have to have empathy and be caring and understanding to a 'healthy' degree. Even if she reacts to this attitude with lust and enamourment at first, the enchantment eventually has to dissolve and she will see that she can't love someone who can't have empathy toward her."
So I'd like to hear from anybody here who "gets it" better than I do, if they have any insight I might not be aware of which will help me realize that there is a perfectly solid and simple argument for why one can be unempathetic and have it not represent a problem or a moral fault or a "mean-ness" toward women, etcetera.
I hate having an emphasized feminine side to my thinking/acting when it becomes counterproductive for me, namely, by making me less attractive. I want to learn how to not feel guilty about being more DGAF-ish.
TL;DR: I would like to become aware of some insight from someone wiser than me that will help me stop feeling guilty about conducting myself without empathy in relation to women.
*Edited a couple typos, re-worded a bit for clarity, and added a tldr.
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
That's because they say this and you're gullible. But hell we all are, no shame in that. Just recognise it for what it is.
I hear you. This is how men are. It's why we are vulnerable to misinformation. Despite seeing the benefits of being an alpha cad, we instead believe what women tell us. We listen to their words and turn a blind eye to their actions.
This is your inner white knight. You somewhat care about women, so you have resistance to doing anything that you might think of as abuse. They tell you it's abuse, and you're not an abuser, sooooo......
RP085 5y ago
Thanks for the feedback.
I think "Inner white knight" is accurate, and it's interesting how I wasn't clearly aware of that (or if I had some awareness of it, it was only very dim) until you mentioned it. Funny how it's easy for me to see something like "white-knight-ness" in somebody else, but difficult to see in myself.
I've been thinking more about this issue and I think this is mostly correct. I have had some internal fears for a while in which I typically presume that women need protecting, from the insensitivity of men, and I always find myself anticipating that she couldn't possibly be safe enough to open herself up to me completely unless I show her that I'm kind/caring/empathetic/etc. Hence the white-knighting.
But posting this question (and subsequently thinking about it for the past few days) has led me to realize that men are by nature not supposed to behave that way; that's a female kinda behavior. Modern men have adopted the survival strategy of "acting female" (empathy, acting with their heart) in order to "earn the trust" and the favors of women, to compensate for the mistrust and resentment women feel toward men regarding the whole "oppression" thing, but in the process they throw out the baby (their masculinity) with the bath water (the abuse).
I've heard "spiritual" people describe things as: Women's energy is in their heart, and men's is in their genitals. In sex and in life. It guides the individual's actions and decisions. This means that the whole "empathy" thing is a female trait, and men are meant to not give a fuck and lead.
Acting male means being animated by the power and clear direction of your dick. With strength and focus, and not worrying about stupid, petty shit, like other people's protestations over your decisions. You're right. There is no abuse inherent in embodying the male role. All there is is the lack of our contemporary Beta survival strategy (be a pussy so that she will trust you on account of being harmless).
If a woman is healthy and balanced and stable enough as an individual that she has no fears about sharing her femininity and vulnerability with (strong, unempathetic) men willingly (which is actually her highest pleasure), there is absolutely no reason why the male should have this unnatural trepidation about conducting himself like a man—i.e. not acting out of empathy but out of strength and leadership, which can come off to bluepillers as "cold" or "mean" or "heartless", but all it really is is "not female".
I think I ended up having the insight I started out looking for. I'm glad I thought of bringing this up. Bringing awareness to something often ends up being helpful.
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
This is what they say, but it's not true. That's a load of beta bait for us to eat up. They say how abused they are, then they go right back to Chad for more dick. Their words make sense, their actions make sense, but the two are completely unrelated.
This is all a trick to get men to act beta for them. Shit test failed if you go for it.
This is all hamstering for "men do, women talk".
Right.
You should be truly sensitive and understanding of her. So that you know what you're dealing with. Understanding her, but not pandering to her. Seeing through her lies. Listening to her and understanding the truth. And acting accordingly. Not being a fucking emotionally sensitive tampon nor being emotionally dependent yourself.
Right.
RP085 5y ago
You had me cracking up with this line:
Excellent, I've gained some clarity. Cheers, man.
daffy_duck233 5y ago
I am new to TRP but i will offer my two cents. I take it that being socially conditioned by the blue pill for so long, to act in the so-called less-empathic-way is TRP method of overcompensating for the tendency to please everyone that the blue pill society has raised men. Why the need for over-compensating you may ask? Because the blue pill mindset has stuck for so long, you will need a kind of 'shock' treatment/dosage of the opposite in order to bend your mindset back to the more balanced state of mind. And that 'balanced' state is to treat people as they deserve. If they want respect, they have to earn it, and you don't give it out freely. It might seem 'cold and ruthless' in the context of the blue pill society but in fact it IS the more authentic way of being. Cheers.
gorebwn 5y ago
My approach to dominance is that it must be natural, if it's at all forced you might as well not be doing it. I look at it with this mentality "When a woman is with me I don't want her to worry about anything". I want her to feel safe, I want her to feel like I'm everything she needs in that moment, and I want to make 95% of the decisions for both of us when we are together.
With that mentality it's easy to approach dominance from an empathetic place. Women want strong men to influence them, be that strong man. Dominance does not mean you have to be a dick head, and often having a strong non-emotional frame comes off as being a dick, you aren't, you're the rock they need as a woman.
markinsinz7 5y ago
Your question and explanations 100% describe me too in a similar case. I have to actively remind myself to be less empathetic. This is why sociopaths get laid.
I don't have clear answers and it looks like none of the veterans have checked thus question out which is a very overlooked topic and other answers are quite disappointing yes they r pointing out the obvious but they forget many of us have seen far from good looking type guys get away with low or no-empathy behaviour.
You'll always feel a little guilty. IN FACT this experience of urs is a lot in sales. Especially payday loans, car dealerships etc. You are essentially making money off selling people shit they don't need or won't help them all that much. Similarly u treat the girl like she ain't even human. Wish I could find the answers man....
RP085 5y ago
I resonate with your reply the most. (Thank you to everyone else who chimed in, nonetheless).
I had a lot of trouble on a past job doing sales for precisely these reasons.
My exact thoughts, which led me to not sell a lot, performing the worst in my group. I cared about the people on the other end of those sales.
I too think sociopaths get laid with ease because they naturally have no trouble having no empathy.
Having said all this, I've been marinating on my question since I posted it, and I've put together a provisional way of understanding the overall issue. I figure it could be useful that I share it.
My difficulty conducting myself without empathy isn't due to insufficient information concerning how things work; I get all of it. The problem is one of execution, not of intel about the territory so I can upgrade my map.
I've been hoping there was a crucial piece of insight which upon discovery would unify in my mind the discrepancy between wanting to be "good" and wanting to be attractive through being merciless. The truth is, there is no discrepancy.
Being "merciless", or, "lacking empathy" (a trait of sociopaths) is irresistibly attractive to women because it signifies being the most dominant male in the enveloping context. Which, as we know, is a crucial attribute in the list of women's hardwired criteria for choosing mating partners. (See this document, page 3, for reference). (tl;dr: Her instinct is to seek {and secure} the highest-quality sperm—i.e. the best man around; the winner, the top dog)
Being the most dominant male in a given context logically necessitates an undertone of "threat" (violence) flowing from the individual vying for the position, toward his competing rivals. This natural dynamic of fighting to attain the highest possible rank in the hierarchy is present in countless species of animals (of which we are one).
(By the way, acquiring a higher capability for domination generates self-perpetuating feedback for the individual, by increasing testosterone, for example, which in turn makes you yet less empathetic {makes women wet}).
The only reason we of the Homo Sapiens species do not fight (actually fight) for domination too often anymore is because we happen to have evolved a trait (our thinking brain) that provides a highly enhanced capacity for conscious awareness, which enabled us to establish big-picture strategies over the years for creating well-being for all, which involve cooperation on a large scale and yield far superior profit in comparison with our animalistic instincts.
That's the only reason we don't fight for domination all that much anymore.
Having fallen out of routinely engaging in this basic (instinctual) behavior, we now feel uncomfortable whenever it rears its ugly head.
That's why we have trouble engaging in dominating behavior; simply because it makes us uncomfortable. (We are not used to it).
And the solution to this problem, I'm afraid, is the same solution required of all kinds of similar problems, like having difficulty doing public speaking, or rock-climbing, or stock-trading. We must become used to it.
Furthermore, often times we find that an individual possesses psychological hurdles preventing him/her from inhabiting the mental, emotional, and physiological modalities most conducive to success in a given endeavor, and it is perhaps this part which represents the biggest challenge in modifying our ways of being.
Here's where I was hoping to find some paradigm-shifting insight that would alleviate my psychological hurdles in being dominant (with an animal undertone of "threat"). But the truth is, to fix psychological hurdles, we don't need the acquisition of more knowledge (for the most part, anyway); we merely need to work on the reality-shaping paradigms or beliefs that give rise to our own personal subjective view of the world, in which there come to exist problems in engaging in various behaviors.
With everything in order, it is absolutely possible to be completely dominant (within the confines of sensible civility), and still look out for our fellow humans (male and female). Not in the form of "niceness"—which is the timid male's version of justice and generosity—but in the form of a simple respect for all life, while being stoic.
By the way, I practice a way of overcoming psychological hurdles via transforming our unexamined beliefs. I recommend it immensely, and I offer to help out anybody reading this, for free.
markinsinz7 5y ago
Not to attack u, ur insights have been quite valuable but this thread is basically u asking advice on the whole 'why can't one do good deeds for a women n get her wet'. So I'm very curious as to how in 1 day u discovered overcoming the psychological hurdles.
Also, overcoming this hurdle should serve a greater purpose else no one will follow through on overcoming it. The answer would probably go like this: a set of actions to take and to remember in ELI5 TERMS why exactly are we doing x.x .x.x.x....
RP085 5y ago
Thanks.
I've always known that virtually all people have "psychological hurdles" in all kinds of areas, and I've been practicing the intervention I mentioned for 8 years.
The only thing that happened in 1 day is that I realized this issue has nothing to do with acquiring more knowledge and everything to do with changing my beliefs. So I'll do just that and hopefully I'll profit.
TRPthroway1847 5y ago
I’m not a TRP expert, but I offer the following thoughts:
Dominating a woman is not about being cold nor being cruel. It is about being in a transcendent state of emotional stability wherein nothing they can do will affect you emotionally.
Why would there be guilt over this type of dominance? It sounds like you’re imagining a “dominance” where the dude is manipulating or otherwise forcing the girl to do things against her will. With impervious frame, the girl will WANT to do whatever you want. You are not “taking advantage” or whatever of women by being an actual man, you are freeing them up to pursue their desires.
MrVodnik 5y ago
I have the same concerns, especially being in LTR. So, what I do, is just going a bit off from most of people here say. I decided to be nice, thoughtful and respectful... a bit of a beta, if you will. But on the other hand, I try to hold as much frame as possible, being as confident as I can. So even tho most of the time I try to be nice and gentle to her, I am becoming very strict when something starts to go the wrong way. In that case, I take full control, and don't feel bad about it, as I am aware that this is for the best for both of us.
I am also very ambitious in most of fields I touch, and passionate about my hobbies. This keeps me secure about my frame (being way stronger than hers) even tho I stay very receptive of what she wants from me on her conscious level.
TL;DR; As long, as she sticks to my rules, I stick to hers. In case of any shit-testing at all, I change up and cut it short.
AloofusMaximus 5y ago
So the trick with OI isn't necessary to be totally overwhelming, it's to genuinely not care about the outcome of any particular situation. Suppose you have a date with Sally, well not caring if it "went well", because you can go fuck Suzy is OI. Telling your boss you doing feel like doing some project is just asking to get fired.
A lot of guys here seem to have a problem with what used to be called "calibration" in the old pua circles. Elements of the dark triad are attractive, but there's such a thing as too much. Confidence is a lesser degree of arrogance (which is generally a turn off to most people in general... Not just women).
Look at it like this would you rather be James Bond, or the Terminator? They're both badasses, but only one gets laid.
You can lead, without being a tyrant. The whole idea of control/absolute domination is an inheritantly flawed one (IMO). Women aren't stupid, and they DO have agency. Do those things work, I'm sure they do to an extent... But you're inevitably going to have a lot of drama as a result, as a man who doesn't care for drama I avoid that.
Trolio 5y ago
If we're talking about one girl specifically I'd double check she wasn't molested or raped growing up. The brain has to do some seismic shifts to come back from something like that, particularly when 99% of the time they don't tell anyone the whole truth of what happened. What a girl likes and what she will tolerate can be very different.
drpeppersucks 5y ago
I understand that it was a rhetorical question, but the answer is simple. They like to be spanked.
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Mwoods342 5y ago
TLDR: Where do you draw the line between being dominant DGAF male to psychopathic douche to still get the lay?
e_z_p_z_ 5y ago
this line doesn't exist. Well it does, but it's the line between - is this guy hot or nah not really? If he's hot and has good dick (or something else valuable like money he can give me) let him do w/e he wants. This leads to the belief 'doing w.e the fuck you want will get you laid ' its the same logic as 'its raining because the street is wet'. No. The street is wet because it's raining and he acts like a self serving asshole around women because they'll still fuck him anyway so why not?
If the answer to the question is meh, not really, then dont put up with any bs just forget him find a better one.
The thought that women are operating on this 4D VR chess board and the slightest little nuance in your game/frame is the reason why she didn't fuck you is literally how autistic people, who are incapable of understanding human emotions and try to analyze situations 10 levels too deep think.
She didn't fuck you cause shes not attracted to you (she realized that 1 second after seeing your face) and you don't have something else valuable to give her.
iCeeYouP 5y ago
That's the misconception most guys on this sub have. They believe if they adopt Chad's "Alpha" mindset, women will come to them.
This is a fallacy.
He is Chad because his facial aesthetics trumps your hard worked for body, your newly acquired outstanding fashion sense, your financial stability/excess, your charming personality, etc. His behavior is a byproduct of his success, not the cause of it. If working beta game works for you, go for it, but take it as a case by case basis. What works for you may not work for others.
Lol that should be the disclaimer on this sub
Chaddeus_Rex 5y ago
And yet ugly guys fuck hot women. Want proof? Go to moscow and see all the ugly ass poor dudes fucking hotties. Hell, if you cant go to Moscow go to Brighton Beach in New york or Thornhill in Toronto.
Bruchibre 5y ago
Ugly guys fuck hot women for sure. But these hot women would cheat their ugly provider for a copy of Chris Hemsworth.
Chaddeus_Rex 5y ago
Maybe, maybe not. Lets take Moscow again as an example: most of these hot women are complaining currently that their ugly poor ass dudes have mistresses on the side. And having a mistress is very common for guys in moscow, so common in fact its almost the norm.
iCeeYouP 5y ago
Exceptions.Do.Not.Make.The.Rule.
Chaddeus_Rex 5y ago
A theory has to be disproven once to be invalidated.
Especially since many women do it. And by many, I mean millions.
iCeeYouP 5y ago
Dis-proven once? I can disprove that shit 10000 times, and your confirmation-bias mindset would still be in overdrive.
I guarantee you that you see attractive people with other attractive people daily, but you selectively pay attention to that 1 looksmismatched couple out of the thousands, as to not hurt your "UGLY GUIZ GIT PRETTY GURLS" dribble agenda. pua-cuck
Chaddeus_Rex 5y ago
Lmao. Thats the basis of science idiot. Someone posits a theory and no matter the amount of evidence in support, it takes only ONE bit of evidence against to disprove.
Go be a slave to the belief that u need to be good looking to get girls. Ill go and get Lebanese hotties with fake tits with my ugly mug.
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iCeeYouP 5y ago
What you're doing is called coping you ugly beta. Since your mug is ugly, an attractive women will never be attracted to you and only will play along with your ultimate coping mechanism, what you call "game", when she wants a resource you have, which obviously won't be looks.
e_z_p_z_ 5y ago
Yup. Women arent lining up to fuck him because he has an abundance mentality, he has an abundance mentality because women are lining up to fuck him. I'm surprised this needs to be said but its evident that people dont get this
Chaddeus_Rex 5y ago
And yet ugly guys fuck hot women. Want proof? Go to moscow and see all the ugly ass poor dudes fucking hotties. Hell, if you cant go to Moscow go to Brighton Beach in New york or Thornhill in Toronto.
iCeeYouP 5y ago
Bro, most guys here swear by their nutsack that if they start treating women like shit, women will like them more. The general situation is, that in the case she isn't attracted to you, she'll just assume you're a fuckhead. PUAs have infested TRP and convinced them otherwise because they understand they can make money off these delusion guys.
DirtJellyBeanz 5y ago
So my question is this... What is the complete end goal when it comes to TRP or some of you subjectively.
t-away3 5y ago
It may sound corny, but achieving inner peace by accepting the way things are and only worrying about things that I’m in control of. And I feel like I’ve reached that point.
I have a love/hate relationship with this sub. I discovered it after getting cheated on by this girl I was crazy about. Second time it had happened to me in my life. It sent me to a sad depressing state. But it, along with this sub, were contributing factors to me making a major change in my life. I could go into the things I like and hate about it if you want, but I’ll try to stay on topic.
I honestly do feel like I’ve reached my end game with it at this point and now I just come back to try to give advice and for a little entertainment as well. This sub helped me see the world as it really is. I was the nice guy in all the romcoms prior to finding it. It helped me realize what’s really important, and once I did I started making changes and working toward those things.
I switched careers to something I enjoyed more, got into the best shape of my life (currently), and understand women SO much better now. I’ve never felt happier in my life and I’m genuinely excited every day for what my future holds.
I think that’s what new redpillers should focus on. Just using this sub and finding advice that works for them to better themselves. I think fully swallowing the red pill takes a couple years. There are some harsh truths. It’s not just about gaming women. And there is definitely going to be a lot of frustration and anger. It’s natural when you realize the world has lied to you about so many things for so long. And you’re also going to experience a lot of failure which will have you doubting the red pill truths. But it’s amazingly comforting when you come out the other end. You learn how to make the world work for you and how to be happy with the truths of your own life.
cannibalstreudel 5y ago
I built some sexual prowess after my first breakup, bedding about 20 girls in a year (which was what I wanted to do, not trying to brag - I'm sure many of you have bedded many more in a year - or prove myself to anyone.)
I met a friend who was amazing with girls and I asked him tons of questions... It turned out he's a red-piller and he shared the documentary with me as well as this Reddit.
My end game - have sex on call with girls I like being around whenever I want, feel secure in any relationship I get into, have control over my sex and love life. Essentially abundance manifested into reality.
I'm getting there. I'm much further than I was, and I see it growing every day.
Entropy-7 5y ago
Personally, the separate the wheat from the chaff and have a high fibre diet in the process, with a view to finding a love muffin half my age to settle down with.
Mission partially accomplished. I'm 51 and she's 34. I just got tired of the game.
More objectively speaking, I wonder how many punters actually think they will be running day/night game and spinning plates as a senior citizen?
RagingDongers 5y ago
I'm someone who has trouble being comfortable in new situations and around new people. You could say these things are intimidating for me until I'm familiar with them.
So how could I maintain my confidence even in new and unknown situations?
AloofusMaximus 5y ago
Confidence comes from competence. Keep putting yourself in those new situations, and they won't be so new anymore, and you'll be comfortable.
Think about when you first started riding a bike. At first it was likely a big wheel/tricycle/training wheeled bike. Eventually the training wheels came off and you were shaky and not sure that you could stay up. Eventually though you were riding the bike like it was second nature. Then it got boring and you had to try going down a hill, or popping a wheelie.
Confidence isn't some abstract thing, it's just being sure of yourself in what you're doing. Talking to women (or strangers), cracking jokes, public speaking, etc. All of those things you can practice and become better at.
[deleted] 5y ago
You can’t make yourself be a psychopath. This is a specific brain/chemical imbalance. That being said I understand your question.
The difference is frame. Women don’t want to be dominated (well, some do but that’s a little beyond the normal range) they want to be taken care of and that is done from a frame of strength. Strength of character, body, finances, etc. They test that frame with shit tests to ensure they are getting the best ‘value’ man they think their SMV can pull. We do this too, but mostly with the looks/not too crazy categories.
Beyond that I’m not sure what your question is.
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
Not sure what question you're answering here - did you type in the wrong box?
Oh yes they do... all normal women utterly crave male domination.
[deleted] 5y ago
I wrote this a while ago so...
I think it comes down to how you define dominate. Women want to be led. They don’t want to make decisions or be responsible for, well, anything. But we’ve raise a generation and a half by all women and now the men act like women. They want to be taken care of and coddled cuz that’s how the women in their lives have taught them. That’s what I meant by this I think. I was making a delineation between the dominance of male leadership and the BDSM version.
Plus I was probably drinking when I wrote it.
420KUSHBUSH 5y ago
"Psychopaths are born, sociopaths are created"
You can become a sociopath from environmental factors and influences
Your body paragraph I agree with completely, although it's all about being dominated and being cared for. Sex God Method
soulcatcher357 5y ago
How does one handle inevitable aspects of aging as Redpiller? (Sickness, ED, injury; talking about ones with permanent lasting effects). I'm looking for more than bravado and stoicism and the Incel threads from the sidebar.
TheSadListener 5y ago
I'd say Stoicism is essential for that, particularly the works of Marcus Aurelius and Epictetus.
redpillerrr 5y ago
Having a hard time explaining how to dirty talk to my friend. ANy good examples out there on the internet? Tutorial style or other?
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
You won't turn her into a fuckbuddy just with dirty talk.
gorebwn 5y ago
The best way to dirty talk is to not think about it, remember you're an alpha male that doesn't give a fuck what happens either way. Say what you want.
Just make sure what you say fits the scenario. For example... if you're having slow romantic missionary sex (which you shouldn't do) you probably don't wanna go full 100 and be like "yeah you like that you little slut". You feel me
[deleted] 5y ago
When people talk about victims of rape, particularly women (as the victims), not coming forth with their accusations (claiming rape, pressing charges, going before a judge) I frequently read or hear something along the lines of:
“Well a lot of times victims don’t want to come forward because of the ramifications of filing a rape case yadda yadda...”
What ramifications are they talking about? If I was raped I’d go through anything to make sure he or she saw justice.
[deleted] 5y ago
If you were raped I'd imagine you would not want to broadcast it to the whole world. Rape is about power. You would be yelling that you have no power.
I'd say it's time to level up the empathy here.
Chaddeus_Rex 5y ago
That makes no fucking sense though. If you truly got raped and arent lying about it or asking for it (false rape claim) there is literally NO reason not to come out.
Pragmaticpandas 5y ago
Can you explain this further? I'm not sure I grasp what you mean when you say rape is about power.
Skuggasveinn 5y ago
Why do you think guys rape in prison? It's not because they think the other guy is cute.
[deleted] 5y ago
Wow I didn’t think about it like that
[deleted] 5y ago
It's always good to keep room for new perspectives
[deleted] 5y ago
The girl will be dragged through the court system. She will have to justify her accusations. Sexual assault crimes are very typically he-said, she-said and have a low rate of conviction. It's mostly that she doesn't want to re-live the event by having to explain it in detail to every justice system tool like cops and states attorneys and ultimately a jury. Not to mention violent sexual assault usually involves dangerous and likely psychopathic aggressors.
Men are just as likely to be ashamed of having been sexually assaulted and not report the crime.
Chaddeus_Rex 5y ago
Or she could just enjoy the sex considering shes probably taken at least 50 dicks by that point. One more or less is hardly gonna make a difference.
[deleted] 5y ago
Hm. Is this kind of behavior more prevalent in women than men? — I mean the part about not speaking up in order avoid reliving the trauma.
Edit: also what’s inherently wrong with having to justify an accusation?
[deleted] 5y ago
Who said anything about wrongness. I’ve seen more than my fair share of men anesthetize themselves with drugs, alcohol, and pussy to avoid re-living and properly processing traumatic experiences. Women don’t have a monopoly on avoiding painful experiences.
The flip side of the coin is even the flimsiest accusation of sexual misconduct can ruin a man socially and professionally.
Steamman333 5y ago
I just started TRP and am really encouraged by it all, yet I am having a lot of trouble finding info on mens style. Would anyone know of any books that go as simple as casual wear to suits even?
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MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
Looked at her expressionless. Let the comment hang in the air. Don't address it.
Pragmaticpandas 5y ago
The only appropriate reaction is to act like her saying that means nothing to you. Because it shouldn't.
MaliciousMack 5y ago
A decent response, but it could be better.
In all fairness, this really isn't that big a deal. So what if you're a lil bitch to her. She's not fucking you anyways or otherwise contributing to your life, so what does her opinion matter.
Also note this logic doesn't just apply to women. If someone is not helping you, their opinion means nothing.
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
Mostly ignore, or maybe pressure flip if the opportunity is right.
"Beg pardon? Everyone's laughing and joking, is everything OK with you?"
Later on, maybe have a low key, private discussion about this incident and how to deal with if it comes up in the future with your friend.
Ga5zilla 5y ago
Does it fit in the RP theory that some people cant ever be alphas or that some males are fundamentally not made to be able ( dont derive pleasure from multiple conquest, etc)
cannibalstreudel 5y ago
Some of the best guys I've found are really ugly with somewhat bad genes... They had to practice and practice and improve and improve that they are so good at game and no guy sees them as a threat so they go right in and get the girl.
Sometimes it's actually an advantage!
Entropy-7 5y ago
There isn't this "thing" called an alpha. It is a set of behaviours along a spectrum from less to more that women find sexually attractive. Some guys have natural genetic advantages of height, mesomorph, and facial features, or SES advantages or simply the "touch or the Blarney"/gift-of-the-gab. The point is that through RP a guy can move up the ladder beyond their original station.
OTOH, the plain fact is that the top 20% is always the top 20% and if everyone were improving then there would still be a top 20%. But given your second point, not everyone is cut out to play the game or has the discipline for self improvement which means the rest (and we are talking about a minority of guys) can leapfrog over them in the SMP.
FeelTheBernieSanderz 5y ago
Genetics determines a lot, however it isn't an excuse to not do the best you can.
GlennBeckAmerica 5y ago
Kiss the Girls- James Pattetson.... no I'm Kidding ..the movie was half decent though. Proxima by Stephen Baxter.
TheSadListener 5y ago
What are you reading this week?
alexclarkbarry 5y ago
Cryptoassets: The innovative investor
cannibalstreudel 5y ago
A guy who liked to think a lot and wrote about it. The individual and society, the nature of politics and reality...
Plato's The Republic
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DrownRanger47 5y ago
Leonardo da Vinci by Walter Isaacson
The Man with the Golden Touch by Mór Jókai.
A book about Microbiology.
Issues of Life - John Chrysostom (although this is a religious book I found a lot of "Red Pill advice" regarding relationships).
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DrownRanger47 5y ago
The title "Issues of Life" is a direct translation of the original title "Problemele vietii" from romanian. I don't think that there is a english translation of the book, but you can try other books by him, he writes very good.
https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/4589154.John_Chrysostom
arphod 5y ago
The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. -Gibbon
MonkeyMaster64 5y ago
12 Rules for Life by Jordan Peterson
First chapter was absolutely killer and it talks a lot about male-female gender dynamics as well as power and what it means for survival
Arabian_Wolf 5y ago
Skin in the Game by my favorite author Nassim Taleb.
daffy_duck233 5y ago
letters from a stoic by seneca
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Darkone06 5y ago
New York times.
I just trying to keep up with the Russia investigaron. Shit moves to quickly.
Chaddeus_Rex 5y ago
Let me let you in on a secret - there is nothing to investigate. Gasp - shocking right?
Darkone06 5y ago
I said the same thing with the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. We still went to war.
Said the same thing about Benghazi, they still did investigation after investigation into it.
I'm cool with them investigating Russia to the fullest.
Elections 2016 were an inside job.
The democrats stole the nomination from Bernie with super delegates.
The Republicans accepted Russian financing and propaganda.
Chaddeus_Rex 5y ago
The democrats had saudi funding. The Republicans had no Russian funding only propaganda for a Russian audience (i have russian tv). It was only pro-trump on russian tv channels not us ones.
Darkone06 5y ago
If you're so sure of no collision just let the investigation continue.
You might need to take the red pill and be woke to the huge amount of corruption this administration is doing.
Even if there was no collision the amount of corruption going on with this administration is treasonous.
ozenmacher 5y ago
The Way of Men by Jack Donovon. SHort but sweet discussion on what masculinity is.
gorebwn 5y ago
Diary of an oxygen thief. Killer so far
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falconiawillfall 5y ago
Meditations by Marcus Aurelius
ApexmanRP 5y ago
Crime and Punishment
Sperm Wars
The_Titleist 5y ago
This weeks book is The Gulag Archipelago by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
It is a firsthand narrative based on both first hand accounts as well as the authors own experience in Russian Gulags.
Chaddeus_Rex 5y ago
LOL. As a Russian let me tell you to avoid Solzhenitsyn. He was a schizophrenic, everything he wrote was utter delusion.
COCAINE_ADVOCATE 5y ago
Gee that doesn't sound like something a collapsing regime would make up to undermine a devastatingly critical legacy
Chaddeus_Rex 5y ago
When solzhenitsyn wrote the regieme was not yet collapsing.
Also, go read his biography. He saw enemies at home (in Russia) everywhere, then when he wrote his book he got invited to the US where he AGAIN saw enemies everywhere and then got kicked out when he wrote a book criticizing the US and moved back to Russia where he sees enemies again but no one cares anymore.
COCAINE_ADVOCATE 5y ago
Fair enough. I'll look into it more for sure.
UFO_mechanic_AMA 5y ago
If you like Solzhenitsyn you should also search out an uncensored copy of Two Hundred Years Together.
[deleted] 5y ago
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MonkeyMaster64 5y ago
Here is a link to a digital version of the 3 volumes on archive.org
The_Titleist 5y ago
The separates. It’s useless to abridge firsthand accounts
barb9212 5y ago
The Rational Male - Preventive Medicine (Volume 2) by Rollo Tomassi
Edit :left off author
Entropy-7 5y ago
From Yao to Mao: 5000 years of Chinese History
COCAINE_ADVOCATE 5y ago
"The Other God", a history of religious dualism
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af_007 5y ago
The Natural: How to Effortlessly Attract the Women You Want
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Lkeacentipede 5y ago
Beyond good and evil by Nietzsche
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[deleted] 5y ago
The Dice Man by Luke Rhinehart and Ride the Tiger by Julius Evola
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uebermacht 5y ago
The Charisma Myth by Olivia Fox Cabane
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ImmunosuppressedTau 5y ago
Autobiography of Theodore Roosevelt
Derkastain 5y ago
Check out the Dangerous History podcast, episode titled “Remember the Maine.” Teddy was a piece if crap who was hell bent on a war with anybody for any reason.
ImmunosuppressedTau 5y ago
He's a very good writer and Im enjoying his book so far. Ive learned a lot from him specifically his views on masculinity and national defence. I'll check out that podcast that you recommended. I suppose whether you view him as 'piece of crap' depends on your political views and morals.
Derkastain 5y ago
I think the podcast I mentioned addresses pretty directly Roosevelt's views on masculinity and national defense. Wouldn't be bad to get another perspective. That being said, this isn't one of the most entertaining of his podcasts so you will have to bear with it to some degree. Skip through all the intro stuff about Patreon and all that. It takes him a bit to get going.
[deleted] 5y ago
No More Mr. Nice Guy. I agree with a lot of it.
MaliciousMack 5y ago
Parsing through 48 Laws again a bit. I tend to enjoy the historical exerpts.
Various Political Discussion threads on Reddit.
Etc.
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Rohan8989 5y ago
Using success/status:
I am around 5.5 in looks, am working in the gym getting to a 6. Although I am well above average in the face aesthetics department, at 5'8, there will be plenty of women who don't go for me based on looks.
I am successful in real estate though- own my own development company. Also want to write novels. Basically a very ambitious, driven guy.
When I'm at a big supermarket, a fast food outlet, or a cheap department store (the Australian version of Walmart), I see these women- maybe between 18-21 years of age. Working their boring jobs, looking fairly uninspired.
They can tell that I am a successful man who is going places. Sometimes when I am in a suit I get them clearly giving me interest.
I know I can get these women based on my success and status, but I don't know how I would go about it. I imagine it's different to night game (which is the only game I've had experience with).
I'm also 29 and a lot older than them.
How should I go about 'demonstrating value' in terms of success and status?
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 5y ago
Not a good plan unless you aspire to attract a gold digger and become a beta provider. NEVER show your money-hand to women you're interested in! Present yourself as a socioeconomic average guy, and only AFTER much vetting by you and investment by her, give her any inkling of your net worth.
I think it would help if you stop thinking of yourself as somehow less-than. I remember the tale of a short but confident Chad who would approach top league prospects and walk away with a casual your loss attitude if shot down.
Disney pauper to princess stories are exactly that- stories! You can take a woman out of the ghetto, but do you think you can take the ghetto out of a woman? Sure, some of these cashiers may be working their way through college etc and you might find a diamond in the rough. You're more likely to discover irreconcilable differences in many key areas of life. Don't go in expecting a poor woman to be so grateful for your attention that she'll obediently follow your lead to an entirely different social stratum.
Entropy-7 5y ago
For one thing, 5'8" is not a problem for the majority of girls (keeping in mind the average is about 5'4"). I'm 5'10" and with girls 5'9" to 5'11" the only issue was that they would always wear flats, as much as I would have loved them in 4" stilletos for various functions.
Ditch the suit and get some stylish, casual clothes. It confuses the hell out of less sophisticated girls because they see it on some subconscious level but don't reconize the brand names or the styles (and truly rich guys respect you more for not trying too hard, because they do recognize the brand names and styles).
Don't want to. . .fucking write a novel. Get the first draft of your first book and get a literary agent and then go from there. Even before that, if a hot, young chick asks you "what do you do" then don't mention real estate. Say "I am a writer."
Suit+real estate screams beta bux. Casually stylish + writer makes tingles. If she calls you on it later, then you say something like "Ok, you got me. But real-estate is what is do while writing is who I am."
In terms of pick up, it is totally different than night game. You seriously have to think about whether we want to create a new term of "Wal-mart Game" (or Aussie equivalent) but I have some suggestions. This is mostly theory based on analgous situations, but if you try it, and it works, then we can write a book or a blog together.
First is, if they are bored and uninspired then entertain and inspire them for those few moments you are at the checkout. In the act of buying a bag of Cheetos, be your most up-beat man-enjoying life self that you can. This is not "frame" with a small f, this is "Frame" with a capital because you are not only holding your own but bringing her into yours. (This is comparatively small potatoes stuff as opposed to religious leaders, motivational speakers and professional PUAs.)
Do a bit of research on the origin of names. There are many websites like babynames.com that give you the origin and meaning of first names. (It's always baby-something because couples choose names for their babies rather than researching their names after the fact.) You can front load and then be spontaneous or you can backload and drop it on her at your second encounter (but this is much less impressive). This is actually effective clown game in any context but much more important for Wal-Mart game because they wear name tags.
It's been a while since I have done this but at age 32 I met a 19 year old named Rachel, and I called her "Little Lamb". She was all WTF on me but I said, her name is Hebrew and means "little lamb". I may have stretched the truth of this as some translate this as ewe or female sheep, and it was weird because she was East Indian, but it all worked out in the end (ie. first night sex).
The mind fuck. Purchase a boat load of cheap items that get her thinking you are crazy but interesting. This will fall apart at one point.
Treat the man-help well. Either legitimately or by design, buy a heavy item that needs a "carry out". Make an excuse like "pulled something in the gym" and then get a teenage Wal-Mart buck to carry your shit to your car. Chit chat with him, get as much intel as you can, and then TIP HIM WELL. Why? For one, all the swinging dick Walmart boys want to make babies with the hot Walmart girls, and they will be pack animals defending their territory. Establish youself as their mentor rather than their competition (ie. AMOG) and they will grant you one - and only one - pick of the crop. If they all become your (or one) "circle of friends" then you have the opportunity to eventually bang all of them.
And NEVER or feel the need to justify your age. Half+7 my brother, and any extra is just ahead of the curve.
++++
The above is just me thinking out loud. I think you and I have a few things in common. PM me.
Pm-kebabs 5y ago
Value is defined through two variables mainly. Scarcity and expected benefit of acquiring that good or service. Scarcity may be defined as a lack of supply in proportion to demand. If you are a busy man, and a person knows this you giving one hour of your time should have special significance. You can also show an uncaring, polarizing attitude , or outcome independence. You can blast through potential “buyers” as there will still be lots of them. The expected benefit will be defined according to the preference of the consumers. You will buy a Ferrari if you want a status symbol rather than a run down 40 y.o car. The same way your would be buyers will assign more value to you if, and as they perceive having you will benefit them in a certain way. Ideally you would want value be assigned to your internal qualities. Your character, your charm... they are less fickle than money. You will be appreciated for what emotions you provoke rather than looking like a meal ticket. That is the alpha beta dichotomy
MaliciousMack 5y ago
You've got value. Find women who respond well to value you create for yourself.
Aspring writer women will take interest in your writing, women interested in your money may take interest in hearing you make bank. Find women in those circles and work from there.
But since you have value, you can afford to have a bit of standard too. So keep that in mind.
To round out, lift, eat well, work hard, and maintain the frame you've built. Wish you well brother.
Mr-Ed209 5y ago
It sounds more like your problem is lack of approaching and limited beliefs. Be confident in yourself and what you offer women. You're a fucking huge winner by the vast majority of 21 y/o girl standards..
Leverage it. Money makes you hotter intrinsically because it demonstrates status. And you really don't need to show that much wealth to put yourself ahead of the curve, especially if you're setting your sights on University girls. Most of the game is just about not appearing to be a loser. I've always had issue with the BB narrative on this sub that preaches if you show women money they will cuck you. You get beta bucked if you behave like a beta end of. It's an alpha trait to have money, own your life and be successful. Women will see it and respond accordingly.
Nice apartment in the city, decent car (just something new looking, no need to own a Mercedes). That's all you need to get decent quality women. Get on tinder, approach on nights out; get as many numbers and f closes as you can. Go on as many drink dates close to your apartment as you can.
Use the tools of your status where you can. Match with a tinder sloot slightly out the city? Offer to pick her up in your car, drop it at the apartment. Make an excuse to grab something inside and have her follow you in. Your status aids your logistics. At 21 most women are sneaking past room mates and even kicking friends out of share rooms to get a lay. Be a semi decent guy with a nice place that you can have girls over to chill comfortably, just the two of you. Theres no reason to not have a comfortable harem of young eligible FWBs wanting to hang at your mannor.
Women are losers. For some of them this will be enough for them to just sit down and gawp at your decor. Be prepared, have wine and drinks and just escalate where you can.
Whatonearth76 5y ago
I don't know all TRP but value=money. The more expensive the assets you have, the more valuable you look. If you are successful, the easiest way women see that in your expensive ass suit and car.
Entropy-7 5y ago
Value =/= Status, and status is only collaterally related to money, as in how you make it and how you spend it. A broke ass musician has more status than a successful accountant in many equations. The accountant is not irredeemable if he spends like a playa. . ..
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blahhhh22 5y ago
A girl I’ve been trying to get with cock blocked me with another girl but said girl didn’t sleep with me that night and I just don’t exactly know what to make of this. What could be the reasoning behind this? I can go into more detail if need be.
t-away3 5y ago
Elaborate on how she cock blocked you...I’m curious
blahhhh22 5y ago
Well we were all drinking and this other girl who I can tell likes me offered to take me home bc I was hammered. So then the girl who cockblocked was like I can take you home. I’ve had this girl over but didn’t close. She knows I like her. So I didn’t make a decision right then. Later on the other girl was like okay whose taking you home and I turned to the girl I like and said you can take me home.
Then basically she actually drove there with a friend and he dropped me off and dropped her off after I guess. Basically she knows I want her and she made it seem like she herself was gonna drive me home but then yeah that didnt happen.
She only offered to take me home after the other girl tried to take me home. And then when they dropped me off I was like “I shoulda let other girl take me home lol” and she laughed dude like she laughs at my jokes and like I can tell she likes me but Like idk.
Also I hung out with her tonight and Idfk man she was all like are you goingg tonight (to hang out at my friends). And got really pouty when I was like idk where y’all going. So I was like yeah yeah I’ll come.
So then she shows up with the nigga who I thought was her beta orbiter but apparently I’m losing to this dude somehow. I just don’t fucking know dude I want to pretend like she doesnt exist.
I’m hammered rn btw hope this makes sense
ChadwickChadington 5y ago
Am new too, but this seems like an easy case.
Few possibilities.
Girl might be attracted to you but put off by alcohol, she knows you like her so she wants to keep you as a possibility while she looks for better.
Big reason I can think of that she's attracted but resisting, is your alcohol problem. Get that sorted, don't get drunk around her, see if her attitude changes.
Drunk sex is bad sex for women. As Shakespeare says, wine provides the desire but takes away the means.
Other reason is that she wanted to protect her friend from making a mistake for the same reasons she's resisting you (if indeed it's resisting).
blahhhh22 5y ago
I appreciate you dude. Something is holding her back but she’s still interested so we’ll see haha. I shouldn’t get so worked up about it. I feel like she’s interested so we’ll see what happens bc imma try to get her. I need to be less invested and game other girls too tho.
Throwaway-242424 5y ago
Sounds like she doesn't want to sleep with you, but doesn't want any other women to sleep with you, lest you stop giving her attention. Next.
dulkemaru51 5y ago
I have read the sidebar as well as other TRP, PUA and evo psych material for close to a year now, but this is still not totally clear to me:
Genuine desire cannot be negotiated. She either perceives you as a powerful male with Alpha Seed or she does not. Hypergamy dictates that her limbic system will give her feelings of attraction to the AF. She also has an innate drive to be provided for; the other side of hypergamy is her emotional need for a males provisioning. A man offering commitment in exchange for sex is automatically not an Alpha because an Alpha has abundance and will not offer commitment because in a tribal context he has been and will keep spreading his genes with or without her. A man not emotionally investing for reciprocal sex nor before or more than she does, influences her to limbically perceive him having high value; he is an Alpha on his own path and does not supplicate to her (he has an entire tribe to lead, betas to order around and females to fertilize).
MY QUESTION though is, it is possible for a woman (in theory anyway; not necessarily 'do they exist?', bc Feminazism etc) to be absolutely infatuated with a man (to perceive him as Alpha), be aroused by him and wanting badly to fuck him but still demanding exclusivity before doing so, because she has absolute morals about sex? Say her N = 1 at the most and she has never had sex outside of a committed LTR, could she possibly be willing to let a man, who she is primally attracted to, walk away because her values inhibit her from having sex outside of a committed relationship? If not, is it due to a woman's utter inability to have self-awareness or true adherence to a personal value system based on her brain structure?
If it is possible for her to get extreme tingles from him without putting out, what will happen if she gets the deal of commitment from him? Can he remain Alpha in her eyes or is he operating in her frame by default? What if he demands this trait in any woman he considers forming a family with?
I ask because I'm sort of in a situation like this. We've hung out twice. The first time I pushed hard for it and she laid out that she wouldn't have sex before she knew me well (n = 1, confirmed by trusted sources... not saying it's a scientific fact though), that she was really intrigued by me and wanted to continue seeing me. I kept it sexual in every other regard. She was red in the face and she was horny but she actually sat up and wanted to conversate. She kept texting me afterwards. We hung out again. Hair flipping, lip licking and laughing at the driest jokes I could come up with, kiss-close. She keeps texting with enthusiasm and is pushing for a third meet-up.
Am I being fooled? As long as she does other stuff for me than sex (she paid for everything, IoIs, wanted to hold hands, texts me 10 times more than I her). The thing is that I want a family with someone who does not fuck because her pussy said so. FOR SURE, I am not committing if that will make her see me as her BB. In that case I will rather spin plates and sire bastards. Am I on a fools errand? Can she maintain her genuine desire even if I agree on giving monogamy a shot before getting to fuck?
I'll obviously keep gaming other girls until the day comes, or doesn't come, when we are 'a thing' and I'll lay my rules out for her, not giving in on any demands I have or giving up anything that I value because she doesn't like it.
I hope you understand my question and believe me when I say that I'm not looking to lie to myself about the reality of human nature. I want the truth. The fact that I hope that reality can offer me a choice in women that aren't whores who do ONSs and actually want to get to know a person before they give up their most valuable asset and who don't look for external validation doesn't mean that I will believe that to be reality if it turns out that it isn't.
TL;DR Can a woman retain her genuine, unnegotiated desire for a man and perceive him as having Alpha seed even if he agrees to exclusivity before he gets pussy? Can he possibly have the dominant frame in this situation? What if he demands self-control and taking sex seriously from a marriage prospect? Can he be Alpha in her eyes even if he says 'let's give this a shot' before he gets laid? This is of course assuming that she keeps chasing him until that happens and that he never takes her for granted, develops [other?] supplicating behaviours or forgets AWALT.
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
Yes, but not because of morals - because of wanting to lock him down. While AF is true, not all women will seek out an alpha and do her best to fuck him in the way TRP says most do.
Why do you care though? There are no unicorns.
Commitment kills attraction.
No you're not, you're not the top alpha chad you think you are.
Yes you're being fooled. If she wanted to fuck you, she'd fuck you. Provider behaviour (including commitment and listening to her whining shit) will make her instigate a "make him wait" strategy though.
Commitment = bb.
No. As soon as you give commitment, she's won. And then she'll demand that you "prove the commitment is genuine" by showing you didn't just do it to get sex with her, which you prove by not having sex with her. Then as soon as you suggest less commitment, you get "I knew it, you just wanted sex" and your commitment will never be quite enough to get much sex...
Commitment is the beta trap. Don't ever commit anything to a woman you've not fucked.
Don't lay your rules out for her, LIVE BY THEM. She won't follow the rules laid out just because you laid them out and she agreed. She'll just follow her feelings.
You want to meet a unicorn. They don't exist.
THERE ARE NO UNICORNS.
No.
Sorry to give you the bad news, but just because she chases you doesn't mean she's worth having.
dulkemaru51 5y ago
I care about this because I would like to form a family at some point, sooner rather than later and I'd prefer a woman with a low n-count, who's able to pair-bond, who exhibits the traits of someone capable of pair-bonding and who grew up in a household with monogamous parents... if I've understood the situation correctly, those are markers indicating a relatively high probability of pair-bonding and consequent monogamy.
I don't think I am. If I thought I were, I wouldn't be asking you dark triad gods for advice. What I meant was that I reckon that she's attracted to me, because SHE considers me to be an "Alpha". She IS trying to lock me down, I understand that, but again, I think that she has genuine desire for me, for now.
Well yeah, not literally.
My wording was bad. Yes commitment=BB. What if I make it unequivocal that quality sex in large quantity is essential for my commitment to not vanish? If I showed that I won't prove shit to her by 'not having sex' after commiment has been given?
Thanks for giving me this info, I don't blame you for reality.
I gather from this that what you're saying is that giving commitment before getting sex is the same as giving her the power/falling into her frame/operating by her rules, and that in itself will always kill attraction.
What if YOUR first priority isn't sex, at least not when it comes to her? Say that you're getting sex elsewhere while you conclude that she's good LTR material, you say let's try this out, make it official and then get laid? I know that it's still commitment before sex... well yeah.
So one can't agree on giving the relationship a shot in any way before getting pussy without the genuine desire turning into negotiated desire? If she doesn't do ONSs, just does LTRs and wants to lock you down and you agree, even if monogamy ensues, you are automatically now her BB? If she talks about her rules for sex (LTR) and her rules for an LTR and you have precisely those demands on a woman for an LTR, will commitment still kill attraction just because that's what commitment always does? It's impossible to agree on being bf and gf before having sex, even if you have and follow high sexual demands, without becoming BB? You absolutely must fuck her first? You said that not all women will have sex with a guy quickly but not because of morals but because of wanting to lock him down... are those girls then destined to only have BBs?
If I keep being sexual and finally say alright fine, I'll be your boyfriend (probably better: You can be my girlfriend), happy now? But I keep pushing for sex even harder after that point, fully prepared to walk quickly if she doesn't give it up because come on, we're together now... say I get it that same day (if not then it's obviously straight bullshit shit-testing to the max and I'm gone), could I in that case be said to have the leading frame? THIS IS NOT ABOUT HER, my long-winded question is very general. Or if she asks to be my girlfriend and I say yes, before having sex? That last example would seem to me to be an excuse on her part to have sex, not saying that the agreed upon exclusivity wouldn't have to continue after the first session of course.
I've known girls who have that sex-in-LTR-only thing, who become officially exclusive, have sex, get cheated on, dump him, then take him back because they're obviously (it seems to me) still attracted as fuck to the guy... guys that seem Alpha. Is their desire genuine only after they get cheated on or what?
I'm trying to understand the theory behind this with no ambiguity.
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
The problem is that if she says "no sex before commitment", then as soon as you commit she won't suddenly have sex with you. Instead she'll demand proof of commitment by not having sex with her.
Yes, and crap sex too.
You are taking her too literally. She doesn't mean this as a transaction. It's not the commitment for sex deal she makes it sound like. She's using sex as leverage to get commitment, but the commitment won't trigger instant sex.
Their desire is genuine.... but these sound like girls who need drama.
Look.... I might be wrong. You might say "great, let's date... I won't see anyone else... I've dropped my other women". See what happens next. See if it triggers instant sex (as you think) or if it triggers a further round of "make him wait".
dulkemaru51 5y ago
Thanks, I appreciate the input.
Bro, I'm not rejecting what you're saying, I'm playing devil's advocate and trying to deeply understand the underlying principles behind the behaviour (of women) that you're talking about.
I'm pretty sure that your reasoning for your description of the dynamics between men and women in this context comes from: Man giving commitment demonstrates a lack of abundance and putting Woman on a pedestal which automatically tilts the power balance in her favour - he is chasing her and not the other way around and by her hypergamous (UP) instinct she cannot possibly be attracted to that?
I'm not trying to reconcile unicorns with TRP. I want to understand this shit deeply and infer all possibilities that it (TRP/reality) brings.
I get what you're saying. I've kept contact with her and she keeps to want meeting up. Going by what she has consistently said (let's see what she does, of course), she will only have sex with a boyfriend. You already answered the question about what kind of life girls like that will have: they have the self-control to stay away from the instant gratification that AFs provide and are therefore destined to only have BBs (I hope I got it right). I'm not sure what you are referring to with "commitment" in this case nor what she is after; I'm starting to think that she wants us to be official so that we can start having sex. You say No. What I mean is that I haven't got from her what she would specifically want me to do or prove before getting some starfish sex from her but I'm inclined to think that she, at least for now, is attracted to me. Maybe she wants to be able to call me her bf so that we can fuck?
Again, I get what you mean and I'm not rejecting it. But assuming that she simply won't give it up unless we're formally a couple, what's the harm in me saying that we are, just to try to get sex? And if I don't get sex, I next immediately... it doesn't seem like sex is happening otherwise (maybe regardless).
I know that TRP advocates plating several women at the same time and to potentially promote the best, most submissive one with the lowest n-count etc to LTR status if one so wishes. I'm already banging other girls. It's not that I have to have HER. I want to know if one can possibly have a good LTR where there is lots of mutual attraction without getting sex before there is 'commitment' (or an official status like 'exclusivity' or whatever). How does one get a girl with a low n count unless she's someone who vets a guy for a good while before opening her legs? If she's one of an AF's five plates...
Maybe you've heard of a guy named Stefan Molyneux. He's an ancap youtuber who speaks about contemporary culture and its' feminist infection. He's been married for over a decade and is RP in some senses; promotes the importance of a low n count, even uses CC as a term, talks about hypergamy though I think his perception of it is skewed (he says that men are hypergamous too because we also want the best we can get...), he says that supressing instant gratification is a good indicator of impulse control in women (obviously in everyone but from a video about women) and he often reproaches women for sleeping around too quickly or without knowing their sexual partner well enough. Is he talking about unicorns because he, unbeknownst to himself, is a BB to his wife and a blooper without realising it?
I don't think, I want to know. I know you think that I'm going to do it regardless of your advice. I might but not because I'm convinced that she's different but like I said earlier, if that's the only way of getting to (possibly) fuck her then why not? hehe..
I want to raise healthy, smart, emotionally stable and unconfused, anti-feminist kids with a woman who will be a good mother and who isn't likely to walk off because her PT is taller than me, so to speak. I want to minimize the risks. I want a girl who is as far from a slut as possible. I swear to you, if she's really a manipulator, then fuck her, I'll try to pump n dump and next and if that doesn't work, just next. If the only way to get a LTR WHILE BEING ATTRACTIVE TO HER is to bang a plate without commitment only to gradually reward her with it, I'll suck up the last crumbs of the pill and do just that!
I hope you get the gist of what I'm asking. It's NOT 'are there unicorns?', or whether I can be in her frame and let her dangle pussy in front of me for my commitment until she starts to love me. It's basically is there a possibility of getting a gf who doesn't put out until she is my gf while [she is] living in my reality?... basically. I want to have a nuclear family and by virtue of raising kids in one, create future generations who do the same. I want to understand this stuff deeply, badly.
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
Yes, pretty much.
Women always say this.
In the ideal case she stays with an AF+BB combination and pairbonds because she's not been fucked raw by the football team. Such girls are rare these days and I wouldn't be prepared to gamble my life and happiness on a girl saying she is like this when so many say it and it's an outright lie. In fact if a girl says she's like this, what's the chance it's true? 10% at best. There are many many more plausible and good liars than there are committed boyfriend-only neo-virgin-sluts.
Sure, try it. I don't think it will be worth it, but you sound like you're determined to go down this route so you should try it.
Yeah, you probably can. You'll lose a little attraction when you commit and more over time, but it can work. For a while.
Point is, how do you know she vets other guys as harshly as she vets you? Women fuck like rabbits and then tell other men they have to wait. Men fall for this and believe that their little angel isn't the slut who last week was begging to suck strange dick.
Everyone wants the best, but it's different for women. Men are happier sacrificing a little quality for a lot of quantity. Men are loyal, women will sacrifice everything to get better. The divorce stats bear this out.
There are no unicorns.
30 years ago you'd have to date a woman for months to years and be heading towards marriage before having sex, and there was great shame in divorce (especially for women). Things sucked then too! Very little sex, huge male commitment. Cheating and leaving was probably reduced, but being treated like a beta was a near constant in male life.
Nowadays... look... there are no unicorns. You won't find a low n-count super-horny girl who will suck your dick and noone else's for the rest of your life. Not gonna happen. This is the blue pill dream, and it is not reality. The best you can get (with one girl) is a few years of red hot sex before she gets internally bored with you at some level. After that you've committed by sticking around, and that's going to erode your attraction. You can stave this off for a while, but only for so long.
I'm not advising you what to do, I'm telling you what I think the consequences are. You really should try it.
Good. Makes sense to arrange things so that her life is best if she stays and worse if she leaves. Don't offer her half your stuff, legal expenses paid and alimony in exchange for leaving you and breaking up the family.
We'll see. I mean... I do wish you the best.
Women do not love men. They need men, they are attached to men, but they do not love men. This is something you need to get your head around: female sacrificial care is reserved for their children at best and often not even then. Certainly not for men and especially not men who commit to them. The deal in her head is "but I'm the GIRL... you are the MAN", which is girl code for "you have to do stuff for me". Women do not love men, this is something you need to understand at a deep level to survive in what you're trying to accomplish.
I get ya... and for a while I wanted this too. I've given up hoping for or striving for this, because this need and urge is relentlessly exploited by women while the state uses my commitment to fuck me over. "Best for the children" is used to justify diverting resources to women.
dulkemaru51 5y ago
The fact that most women are hoes is just that - a fact, I don't dispute that FACT whatsoever. But in case of a girl who really hasn't been fucked raw by the football team, who stays with an AF+BB combo (Alpha Bux I guess), does she have to be his plaything for a while and be successively rewarded with commitment for being his favorite toy out of the 10 toys that he has, or is it just the ideal case if he is to maintain her desire for him? Is it possible to be official, then fuck, then for her to stay because he's somehow still Alpha (=attractive)?
Just as an aside, why won't it be worth it? Have I even anything to lose?
Ofc, I'll never know for certain. More interesting to me is the question whether girls who actually vet all guys like that exist, not her in particular, and if those girls can ever have genuine desire for a guy or if it always degenerates into an unsexy negotiation. Wrt her though, her best friend is the gf of my best bro. I've asked a lot about her. I know about her family. Like I said, ofc I'll never know for certain but it seems like she's only fucked her ex. She goes on vacations with her family, dinners at her gurlfrands' places and such. Not a party girl (but who really knows).
Absolutely. I believe that I understand the theory pretty well (obsessive evo psych studying, reading of TRP material and connecting the dots). I was wondering more if you had watched his stuff. He talks about relationships a lot but seems to suffer from male solipsism. Logical, but not taking into account how female attraction works. He just doesn't seem to understand it at all.
Amen. No state interference, ever. Nothing that will extend her rights to my stuff over the time of her being my girl, actually, nothing that will give her the RIGHT to my stuff. As long as she's my girl, I'll share my stuff with her because I want to and not for a moment longer. I'll make sure of that.
No, I know! Big misunderstanding, maybe I expressed it weirdly. I was making the point about what I'm NOT asking; namely that I understand that I can't supplicate and commit and let her manipulate me with pussy until she magically starts to love me. But rather is there a possibility of getting a gf who doesn't put out until she is my gf while [she is] living in my reality (in my frame, attracted to me)?
You don't seem to think that it's possible to maintain attraction forever. Honestly, if I can get with a girl who's [as] good [as possible], make kids and raise them in a solid two-parent home to be exceptional people, make it to 50, I wouldn't care about attraction as much as about a good emotional connection and ability to count on each other to play as a team. I'll have money, friends and she probably won't be hot at 50 anyway, so if I don't want to fuck her at that point anymore, no one better than me will either. Jokes (half jokes) aside, I get why you've given up the hope of having a family like that. I'm still trying to get as profound of an understanding of this stuff as possible so that I can make my bed as well as it can be made... given no divorce rape! because I won't let that possibility even exist, I will nullify that scenario, trust me. No woman that isn't mine is milking resources out of me. My questions are all in a scenario that assumes that fact.
Thanks for the best wishes. I wish you the best too.
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
Every man wants what you're trying to do. How many manage it?
dulkemaru51 5y ago
Thanks for your answers. I know I've asked for a lot. Could you answer one more question? Otfherwise I'll make a post soon. I want to get to the point where I can conclude what will work and to what degree of success based solely on the fundamentals of TRP theory, without having to guess.
You said that ideally a girl who hasn't been ruined by the CC yet will get with an AF/BB combo (attraction need AND commitment/provisioning/feeling safe need met) and pairbond which will further her attachment + minimize the risk of a break-up. How would that come about? Would she have to be one of his plates until he chooses her over the others or can he have plates in other girls, not get sex from her and still choose her without her losing attraction? I know there are principles in TRP theory but I'm trying to understand how and why they work like they work; there's real biology at work and psychology on top of that biology...
Btw, I've met her a few times since I last mentioned her. Make outs and deep convo and I've consciously forced myself to be cognizant of the chase dynamics every time; leaving at a high note before the vibe turns boring, intellectual topics but never dropping the teasing and overall sexual frame. She keeps following me around, I've never followed her nor responded to any requests(shit-tests) nor has she really tried, hopefully because of the frame I've managed to maintain.
MattyAnon Admin 5y ago
Well she might, but there's no certainty.
Pairbonding will increase attraction, sort of. While you're there. I'm still dubious this will work out in the long term.
You are trying to create a way to avoid breakups. I don't think this is possible. My plan is to not care if and when we break up - and therein lies my power of indifference. Your plan looks to be "vet her and do things right", and I doubt this will work. It might. It probably won't. I don't think what you want is possible.
I guess he'd fuck other women until she decides she knows him well enough to have sex and then they commit. But this is a fanciful and romantic merging of RP and BP worlds, it's not realistic in practice. What will actually happen is she'll either demand exclusivity and commitment for a long time and then lose attraction, or she'll join him in polygamy with all that that entails.
You can't bring back the 1950's America that you imagine or that you were told is reality when you were 8.
Fundamentally women act in their own best interests... and you can't change that. You can't fight biology. Even worse - all women get bored of men after 1-3 years. It's a fundamental constant, it's biologically imprinted into their feelings. After 2 years she's getting bored, by 3 she's demanding marriage and men think it will rekindle the early days of their relationship... and she's in a strong negotiating position at this point because she's less attracted (therefore less scared of losing something valuable to her), and he's in a position of dependence and scarcity.
All the romantic shit pile on top of this is just male and female hamstering - none of it is true. Men get scarcity and women get controlling.
urgh
If you're not fucking her, you're an orbiter.
gorebwn 5y ago
Long answer short. No. Your greatest treasure as an alpha male is exclusivity.
cannibalstreudel 5y ago
In respecting your own sexual activity and your own sex life, even and especially when partnered monogamously, you have to make sure you're having enough.
Sure maybe it's possible she's legit attracted but has tons of resistance to sex outside of a relationship.
In fact it seems this way given the way you've described your interactions, although in America the third date typically has the magic if you're going by the rulebook (which often doesn't hold in my experience but with some girls it may.)
Here's my problem with this question... Sure it's possible but why would you let her control your sexual activity? I'd only go monogamous with a girl I've fucked who has as much or more libido than I do.
I would NEVER settle down with someone who makes me work for her pussy, or rejects my advances more than 10% of the time. Sex is awesome, and when a girl likes me, she enjoys my body as much as I enjoy hers and wants to reciprocate I've found.
I'd never give my dick to a girl who keeps it dry, or a girl who I don't know much about sexually.
I don't think you can be a self-respecting sexual guy and close it off with a girl who you've never fucked. Just my two cents.
dulkemaru51 5y ago
Thanks for your answer.
I wouldn't let her control my sexual activity! I get sex elsewhere.
Her thing is that sex is reserved for relationships. What I may do if I see potential for a future with her, is agree to exclusivity as long as the relationship continues to be awesome; I'll make it clear that if the circumstances deteriorate, I'm gone. I won't agree on being bf and gf just because. I mean that I might say alright, I'm giving you a shot, keep serving me food, the pussy better be good too, as long as I'm happy, I'll stay. I certainly won't buy her a ring before sex.
As I've said in other replies, my interest is not even so much in knowing if I'm being Alpha enough for her in particular. It might seem like I'm searching for external references to help me rationalize having BB behaviour towards her. I'm more interested in the overall rules determining the type of situation that I'm in: are there girls out there that will make a guy wait for sex even if there's genuine desire and is it possible to wait without that genuine desire degenerating into negotiated desire?
You seem to believe that there are. I hope you're right, because I'd rather form a family with a woman like that than with someone who fucks on the first date. But if there aren't, I'll rather form a family with a woman who fucks on the first date out of genuine desire instead of with a woman who doesn't because there isn't any genuine desire, or a woman who has genuine desire, still doesn't fuck, and that genuine desire withers and is replaced by negotiated desire because I agreed on waiting.
AloofusMaximus 5y ago
Women will tend to see you as lover/provider/friend. Lover is where you want to be, that's the primal attraction, wild sex type thing. Standard BP/boyfriend behavior triggers their provider instincts. Remember, women still fuck their beta boyfriend's, but it's almost transactional . I've literally heard women talk about it while out " I went out with x guy, and he bought me a really nice bracelet so I had sex with him".
Theory generally dictates women are the sexual selectors, whereas men are the relationship selectors. I'm most instances it's the men that are pushing for exclusively, not women. Most single women are NEVER just dating one guy at a time.
The real question is why would you want to give a woman your sole attention, without having had sex with her?
dulkemaru51 5y ago
Thanks for your reply,
I won't give her all of my attention before having sex. I know what you're saying but I'm in a situation where she claims to have slept with only one person in her life, at 26 years old, who was her BF. She says that she won't have a ONS or have sex quickly before knowing me well or before we are basically together. She didn't express it as 'LTR or no sex' but she wants to see a potential future before sex. Not just with me, but anyone... or so she says.
I'm very aware of how women's dual sexual strategy and the pertaining emotions work (at least in theory. I've been reading adamantly for almost a year, it's a fascinating subject). So I'm wondering if that, by default, according to TRP wisdom, puts me in the BB category.
Like I said, she's constantly texting me and asking about stuff; partially vetting me because she's looking for a boyfriend (again, according to her and mutual friends she only does relationships) and partially mate-guarding. I'm keeping it flirty and ridiculous as well as vetting her, subcommunicating my [high] standards. We've hung out twice in person, the first time we slept on the same bed and she was visibly aroused during cuddling, but didn't want to make out. Only reason I didn't turn my back and go to sleep was because she sat up all serious and wanted to have a conversation where she expressed that it's alright if I don't want to hear her out but that she won't have a ONS, never has, has only had one sexual partner (4 year LTR) etc. Second time we met she paid for coffee, food, drinks and cab and we kissed at the end of the night.
I'm wondering whether a woman can have enough self-control and/or adherence to personal values about sex (it seems to be common knowledge on TRP that women don't have morals, that due to physical inferiority, women's instincts determine that they will always betray you) to be willing to let a guy that she perceives as an Alpha to walk away without getting pussy just because of her own morals. Is it possible? And is it possible to control the frame with a woman who is like that, do they even exist in the first place?
I'm not saying NAWALT or that she's a unicorn or that I'll start buying her stuff or validating her in hopes of getting pussy after buying a house for her to fuck the poolboy in. Of course I'll want to have sex before investing too much emotionally, if I see BB screening I'm out, problem is I might be too blind for that. But she says that she wants to get to know me well and see whether there is real long-term potential before having sex because "she takes sex very seriously".
I want to have a family one day and if there truly are women like the ones I've described, like how the girl I've been seeing supposedly is, then that's the kind of woman I'll want to form a family with... It DOESN'T have to be her; maybe the pussy is whack, maybe she's a liar etc etc etc... but unless that kind of woman is a just fantasy, unless she's lying or only trying to get me to build a nest for her in exchange for some pussy, unless it's all BPullshit, I'm happy to wait, get to know her and see where it goes, while OF COURSE gaming other women until there's an actual agreement on monogamy.
Pragmaticpandas 5y ago
Saw this this other day here on TRP and it really resonated with me.
Basically if you have to go in to detail and analyze a situation with a girl, and ask for advice, you already care too much and are sabotaging yourself.
dulkemaru51 5y ago
Thanks for your response.
I get why it seems that way and I concede that there might be some truth to it. But I'm not even asking all this stuff because I care that much about the outcome with HER specifically. I do like her, no doubt, she's pretty, intelligent and all that shit. I'm just sincerely interested in the concept of what I'm asking. It doesn't have to be her. I just want to know if there are women out there who can have genuine desire to fuck an Alpha yet have the morals about sex (who understand that a low n is good and the value of their pussies) and the self-control to not fuck him. If so, I'll choose one of those women to be the mom of my kids. If not, I'll take a girl who fucks on the first date instead of one who doesn't just because she wants a provider. No genuine desire - no family. Genuine desire but still makes me wait because she takes it seriously - I can see a future with her IF that genuine desire doesn't automatically devolve into her seeing me as her BB.
I've read so much material and maybe I'm just too retarded to draw the conclusion from the existing information but I haven't had this question answered. "If she has genuine desire for you, she will find a way to fuck you". He (Tomassi) has also stated in various ways that women do have agency, that SP (thanks Aloofus) can trump her decision to fuck you out of genuine desire...
The situation I'm in though is a perfect case to try to understand female nature and the ensuing possible scenarios.
AloofusMaximus 5y ago
So here's the thing, I'm not a full TRP guy. I'm a student of BD, and there's a lot of parallels, but drastically different in some areas. People are people after all. Ultimately the goal is the same as well, to help men lead happy and fulfilling lives.
Now with that being said, if she's only had sex with 1 dude by 26 she probably has some extremely deep rooted SP (either ethnic, or religious if I had to guess). And absolutely SP can trump current emotion. It's likely going to take a LOT of work to get her pussy (more than I'd be willing to put in), and/or she may be an exceptionally low sex drive woman (again not something I'd put up with).
You're already exhibiting boyfriend behavior, so it's not going to really be easy to go back up to lover (it's possible, but rare; it's far easier to move down than up). You've allowed her to sleep over, likely have been texting/talking to her too much, and have had several dates without having sex, and it doesn't look like you made much progress on kino escalation. This is all triggering her "make him wait" instincts, and putting you into the provider category.
What you're aspiring to, is what's called "guy disney"... and unfortunately it never really works out like that (you ARE looking for a unicorn). Gaming other women doesn't mean anything, you need to be FUCKING other women (and good looking women, not hogging) to truly exhibit abundance. Once that happens hopefully you won't fall into the oneitis trap (which it seems like what's happening right now).
Chaddeus_Rex 5y ago
So why do girls say that she wont go past a certain point in escalation and actually wont no matter how much you back off and try again later? Ive had this happening alot lately. The girls wet, i can feel her pussy but she WONT let me take her pants off but her shirt is off and she wont go past this... Wtf
dulkemaru51 5y ago
What are BD and SP?
She's not religious. She has a great relationship with her parents who seem to love each other and love to be around each other after I think well over 30 years of marriage. Her older sister is married and has kids.
There was no sleep over at my place. We were at a friend's place where I said that I'm taking the bed and that she could join which she did. I then started escalating and eventually she sat up and made her speech and I didn't act disappointed. I made sexual jokes the whole time when we were together those two times and she was laughing and grabbing my hand and shit. I made and keep making it clear that I'm turned on by her. I'm no expert IoI reader Master PUA but I recognize a horny chick when I see one. The thing is that she made it verbally clear that she won't have sex besides with someone she thinks there is a future with. Again, I keep the vibe very flirtatious. I also kino but when I hold her for too long or have my face in hers for too long she pulls away.
I won't deny that I like this girl but I'm not going to start believing that she's somehow made from a different cloth than other females. Easier said than done, that's why I'm consulting with TRP.
The thing is that IF there are women who only sleep with guys they see a likely future with, while at the same time it being possible that they can see the guy as an Alpha and not as provider only, then that's the type of woman I'm going after when it comes to family building (again, it does NOT have to be her specifically, but someone like her, UNLESS they're just a fantasy).
Sorry if it seems like I'm rejecting what you're saying. I'm not. I AM playing devil's advocate here but only to find out if it's possible or if I'll have to make due with a slut if I want kids someday.
AloofusMaximus 5y ago
BD is Blackdragon, he's another manosphere guy that I've been following for a while. I've also been having great success using his concepts/system.
SP is societal programming. Basically it's a lot of the deeply held beliefs we're spoon fed in the west, to make us good little slaves (you need to get married to be happy, you have to go to college, single mothers are strong independent women, it's creepy to fuck women 10+ years younger than you).
It doesn't matter what a woman says, only what she does. I say be judicious with your time, as it's your most valuable resource. That girl is going to take considerable time and effort to fuck from the sounds of it. You can do whatever you like, I'd see her as a waste if time.
dulkemaru51 5y ago
Thanks for the answers and the advice.
So I met her again yesterday and we made out for an hour, rubbing inner thighs and so forth. I enjoyed the time we were together and I eventually left bc of blue balls. I haven't made future plans on any of the dates we've been on. She keeps hitting me up and I've eventually always told her time and place as the day gets closer. She contacts me way more than I contact her. She keeps talking about relationships and I keep it casual and sexy.
My whole thing is this: I'm wondering if it's possible for her to view me as Alpha even though I keep seeing her after she denies me sex. As you know, she's slept with her ex who was her 4 year LTR and no one else. I understand the concepts of genuine and negotiated desire. I'm trying to understand if a woman can have genuine desire and still not let sex "just happen" because of her taking it very seriously or am I just a BB to her? I feel like she is following me and not the other way around, she walks with a spring in her step and a big smile as I grab her hand and lead her, she keeps looking my way, she looks hyped up and proud as we run into people she knows who she introduces to me. We made out yesterday at her place where she served me food. Again, she claims that she will only have sex if she sees a future with the guy. Does this mean that she only looks for BBs or can I be her AF who waits?
The reason I'm so interested in this is because I want to have a family someday, rather sooner than later. I want monogamous parents for my kids (no guarantees I know, but I want to maximize the possibility of stability), hence if there are women who are fixed enough in their views on sex being "serious" to not put out unless they see a future with the guy, I'm picking one of those women, BUT if and only if I can still be their Alpha and not their Beta provider. If this is not possible, I'd rather take a girl who puts out but who sees me as her Alpha than a prude who doesn't put out and at the same time sees me as her Provider.
That's my whole thing. If there are women who don't put out but still genuinely desire you, that's what I want. If not, I'll rather form a family with a girl who fucks on the first date but who sees me as an AF and not a BB. I have a FWB so I'm getting mine elsewhere and I'm one date away from sex with another btw. And for the Nth time, I do keep it sexual with the one I've been talking about.
I haven't told her that I'd prefer a girl who holds off on having sex, obviously, because that would make her let me wait on purpose. I am trying to get laid with her. She either has some self-control or she is trying to get me to be her Bucks... tricky.
I hope you understand my question from all the rambling.