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- Hide Preview | 126 Comments | submitted 11 months ago by Ruinedgirl22 [Post Locked]

I had the purest, most wholesome relationship in the world. We developed a strong friendship at the age of 15, got together at 16, had our first kiss at 17 and lost our virginities to one another at 20. He wasn’t the best-looking guy and he was far from an “alpha male” but he treated me like I was gold every single day of our relationship. I can honestly say that he had never hurt me. We had a great connection and had every intention to spend the rest of our lives together.

...Until I started wondering what else was out there. I looked around my college campus and saw other girls with these great-looking jock-types. I listened to stories of my friend as she hopped from the beds of player to player, making it sound as exciting as possible. Hook-up culture was rampant and hot guys were like trophies. When I saw girls at or below my smv pull alpha jock types, I started to stupidly wonder if I was “selling myself short”. I’m ashamed to say that I actually began looking down on my poor boyfriend.

I broke up with him at 21, on summer break, simply stating that I felt like we had grown apart. A month later I went back to college. It didn’t take long for me to be approached by the most typical “alpha” player jock that had ever lived. It’s actually hilarious how typical he was. Being hungry for what I felt like I’d been “missing out on”, I took him up on his offer and we became fwb. I knew it wouldn’t last- I’d heard all the stories and seen all the examples. But I decided that the experience was worth the potential outcome.

The potential outcome indeed happened. I found myself getting attached to him. Deeply. Just like the cliche goes, he didn’t feel the same (although he sure claimed to in order to keep me as a lay). He had an abundance of options, way too many to fall for lil’ old me. I fell deeper and deeper as time went on to the point where I found it damn near impossible to let him go. I got badly hurt and embarrassed time and time again but whenever I tried to leave, he would pull me back, likely for the ego boost. It took him leaving the country for me to “let him go”.

Now, 2 years since this fiasco began, I feel dead inside. I can’t stand knowing that I left such a wonderful relationship for such a dumb reason. The most messed up part? My ex boyfriend told me that he still loved me and he forgave me for what I did. He was even open to getting back together. I couldn’t. I could no longer feel any kind of attraction to him anymore. In fact, I couldn’t feel it for anyone. Instead of having an n count of 1 (my potential husband), I now have a raised one. I can only see loneliness in my future; marriage is a far-fetched fantasy. This, I brought entirely on myself.

[-] Kara__El 85 Points 11 months ago

I like a cautionary tale as much as the next gal, and in fact regularly recommend the book Marry Him: the Case for Settling for Mr. Good Enough, written as a cautionary dating guide for twenty-somethings, by a forty-something who wishes she'd made different decisions.

That being said, you're going a little overboard here. Your life is not over. He was not the most fantabulous prince charming ever. He was a teenager and you were a teenager and it's okay that that didn't turn into marriage. It's good you've learned not to constantly seek something better. Now take that knowledge and work on yourself for the next year and then get back out there, with a true understanding of your RMV. It also wouldn't hurt to pick up that book, I mentioned. This is a valuable lesson, but you're not 39. Calm down and make the best of the time you do have.

Edit: I divorced at 23, from my high school boyfriend. Starting over is scary, but I DID meet a wonderful, hard working, alpha.

[-] stacysmom40 25 Points 11 months ago

I saw that book at a bookstore and sent a photo of it to the guy I was dating at the time. As a WTF moment.

I was 35. Divorced from the man I married in my early 20s. He was “good enough” when I was young and stupid. I wish I could go back and skip that whole fiasco.

Now remarried to a wonderful man. The guy I was dating at 35. We married when I was 36.

The world doesn’t end in your 20s.

[-] Kara__El 9 Points 11 months ago

The title is intentionally inflammatory. I actually read it with the intent to mock it, when I stumbled across it, while making a New Year's Resolutions display at work. It's more about realizing that asking for a 6' guy with a full head of hair, in your 30s, is statistically unreasonable, that passing someone up because there might be something better could end poorly. My husband is absolutely my best match. I definitely didn't settle. He's also not 6' tall and doesn't have a full head of hair. I could've missed out over really stupid requirements.

[-] stacysmom40 9 Points 11 months ago

I get that.

I was looking for 6’ and “settled” for 5’10”.

I was also looking for someone older than me and “settled” for 18 months younger.

At the time my man responded that the book was all about game theory and playing to your best odds. He was right.

[-] Kara__El 3 Points 11 months ago

I thought I had a handle on the frivolous requirements, but reading an account of a woman who had passed up great guys for lame reasons, who was sitting on her couch alone watching Netflix and looking at all the happy families on Facebook opened my eyes a little wider. I think realizing that the options weren't endless made a difference for me. I met my husband six months later. :)

[-] [deleted] 11 months ago
[-] pearlsandstilettos 3 Points 11 months ago

Off topic

[-] [deleted] 11 months ago
[-] pearlsandstilettos 2 Points 11 months ago

RPW is not here to answer men's questions. The bulk of your comment was asking women to explain to you why they find height appealing. You cannot negotiate attraction. Women find height appealing because they do. Men find long hair appealing because they do. We aren't here for you to poke at us and pick our brain on why we are the way we are. Go to askTRP if you have questions about women.

I'll add: usually when men ask the women questions on RPW, I ban them. If you are asking us questions, then you have indicated that you do not understand RP from the women's perspective and thus have no value that you can provide to the sub. So tread very carefully before you continue to argue.

[-] throwawaywayacc 2 Points 11 months ago

I liked what u said moderator, it's sad people are giving it hard to OP and asking her to settle for people she is not attracted to, even telling her that her requirements are bluepilled. Probably men here are raged that women have some requirements, while they blatantly abuse and pump and dump women who are staggering 1.5 pounds overweight.

[-] [deleted] 11 months ago
[-] Ruinedgirl22 3 Points 11 months ago

I just went on amazon and ordered that book. Thanks a lot!

EDIT: The fact that you met such a wonderful man after divorce does give me some hope.

[-] Kara__El 7 Points 11 months ago

I really do think it'll make you feel better. It's less about "settling" and more about being realistic in what you offer and what you seek.

[-] loneliness-inc 1 Point 11 months ago

This is a very important distinction that clears up a lot of confusion.

[-] Kara__El 2 Points 11 months ago

You should check the book out and see what I'm recommending. You'd probably agree that it's good reading, despite the title.

[-] loneliness-inc 1 Point 11 months ago

I heard about it. Maybe one day I'll read it.

[-] [deleted] 11 months ago
[-] loneliness-inc 0 Points 11 months ago

It’s actually a good thing you didn’t end up with a beta-type because you are a great catch for that alpha-type every woman craves.

Great catch and release for the alpha bro, leaving her alpha widowed with a high N-count which in turn, makes her less desirable to men.

Remind me how that's good for op?

[-] JJ3314 8 Points 11 months ago

Ha ha, like ... what!?

I think all the support that's being offered for her here is actually watering down the lesson she learned. She's obviously alpha widowed, and the lesson to be learned is to not behave in a way that increases the likelihood of being alpha widowed.

She met her first boyfriend when they were too young, so the odds are that things would not have gone the distance, but being plated made things worse. The lesson re: her first boyfriend is don't get into LTRs when you are a young teenager--it will lead to needless heartache for one of you because the relationship almost never goes anywhere.

OP is much more introspective than usual for what she went through, which is indeed a highly desirable quality for a wife, but the "alpha" men in our society--meaning the most sexually promiscuous--typically do not care about her ability to introspect. It's true that these men probably skew more attractive, but it's more complicated than that--they have no moral compunctions about pumping and dumping women. They literally don't care about their feelings. Some men are like this naturally, but other men (who are usually called betas) instinctively feel that it's a shitty thing to do to a woman. It would be in the OP's interest to seek out a man with the latter set of sensibilities, who none the less is sufficiently attractive, is industrious, and has a sense of purpose in his life. These usually aren't the college football players.

[-] Kara__El 7 Points 11 months ago

She did say she only has a count of two at 23. I feel like she's beta-widowed, if anything.

[-] BewareTheOldMan 4 Points 11 months ago

Here's the deal for u/Ruinedgirl22 - IF...and that's a big if...if she TRULY learned from the lessons from her past, with an N-Count of two or less and age 22 or so she has a workable situation.

However, if she still has the long-gone, so-called "Alpha" on her mind she’ll be unable to make the necessary transition for happiness with a regular, reasonably attractive Nice Guy who will treat her well in addition to being an outstanding husband and father.

I give her credit for the epiphany and the true-life realization, but if she's still hung up on the Alpha - again...using this term loosely because he sounds like a basic Pretty Boy, then she's still at square one and should NOT bring this emotional baggage to any Good Man. He'll see it, won't understand it, become frustrated, and eventually make his exit.

I notice a lot of other responses regarding OP's summary as if this is an easy issue. It's workable, but only if she can resolve ALL past issues from both relationships.

cc - u/JJ3314

cc - u/NationalMouse

cc - u/Kara__El

cc - u/stacysmom40

[-] NationalMouse 2 Points 11 months ago

Because no gal wants to end up with a beta-bux. And if OP plays her cards right she can vet for a better man without raising her N-count, like I did. I don’t know a single Red Pill Woman who would waste her her time with an “Alpha bro” who’d catch and release her. That’s the whole reason vetting is taught to those of us in this sub who know we have high SMV

[-] StinkyDiaper 42 Points 11 months ago

It's very refreshing to see a post like this, and I honestly feel for you, hard. Some people are highly seductive by nature, and just have the "art of sex" down to a tee.

Keep in mind that this "jock" was never a good LTR prospect, as your former bf was, but was a good "give me orgasms" prospect.

I really wish it was socially acceptable to share stories like yours to the mainstream media to warn other women of what not to do.

Unfortunately, that isn't the case, so women 'round the world will continue to chase alphas, men will continue to chase cheap, easy sex, and children globally will suffer the consequences.

One can only wonder what the children of tomorrow will be born into, and what they will become.

[-] WonderWomanxoxo 17 Points 11 months ago

The children of tomorrow have social media and tinder. They are doomed. Especially the younger girls.

[-] Ruinedgirl22 10 Points 11 months ago

I definitely know that he was an awful, awful LTR candidate (for other reasons I neglected to add to my post) and while this does help, it also kind of makes things worse. In the end, he’s the one in the back of my mind instead of my extremely-LTR-materiel ex.

It saddens me that red pill ideologies aren’t socially acceptable. They really do hold SO much merit. I don’t even want to think about what children born today will become.

[-] StinkyDiaper 14 Points 11 months ago

It's both wonderful and sad how theredpill can bring males and females together. My introduction to "theredpill" was when I was 16 and, my mother, married to my father for 20 years, cheated on him with two alpha men, and abandoned us children. She's still with the second "alpha" man, after all of these years.

If only young men and women could be exposed to some sort of clandestine information via their "rp" parents, perhaps a stabilization could take place.

[-] JJ3314 8 Points 11 months ago

"It's both wonderful and sad how theredpill can bring males and females together."

RP awareness may help men understand what attracts women, and it gives them a better understanding of female nature, but this awareness usually deepens feelings of sadness and anger towards women.

I empathize with the OP--this is a much more introspective post than I am accustomed to reading on reddit, but if her ex read this post there is a very realistic possibility that he would be filled with rage that she destroyed her ability to appreciate him by chasing after trophies like the other girls. Neither she or he are wrong--like I said she's remarkably introspective: so many women write off their prior sexual experiences as a necessary exploration of their sexuality, but it took a rather low n count for her to wake up to reality. Likewise her ex is going to have to introspect. My suspicion is that he will likely not be fully redpilled, if ever, until later. He may have to get the shiv from a few more girls before he starts looking for answers--because he is likely dating in a milieu where many other women are looking for their trophies as well, and rejecting men that don't fit that mold.

Redpill rage in men frequently results in them losing, progressively, their desire to pare up with women long term, and so men and women end up being like ships passing in the night.

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[-] lovlorn 23 Points 11 months ago

You're only 21. You have plenty of time to find a good man who also inspires your attraction.

[-] WonderWomanxoxo 9 Points 11 months ago

I agree she's still very young. Women who decide to branch swing over 25 are pushing it. I wouldn't leave my husband for ANYTHINGGGG. Every woman I know who is 30+ and has divorced her husband trying to search for better haven't had much luck finding a man. Especially single mothers. I mostly get annoyed with women who cheat on their husbands, then divorce them, thinking that they will be with the man whom they've been having an affair with.. which sadly doesn't work.

[-] arin1807 2 Points 11 months ago

when you say you wouldn't leave your husband for anything, does that mean even if he cheated on you? or physically abused you?

[-] WonderWomanxoxo 2 Points 11 months ago

We been thru shit together lol he doesn't cheat on me but if he did I'd forgive him.

[-] arin1807 1 Point 11 months ago

wow, saying you'd stick by him indefinitely through infidelity and abuse is messed up

[-] WonderWomanxoxo 2 Points 11 months ago

I just said I'd forgive him if he cheated on me. Not abuse. But people do what they want and my husband will always be my husband.

[-] girlwithabike 3 Points 11 months ago

I'd like to second this. A big part of RPW is understanding why men might behave the way they do, which includes why a man might cheat. Too many people jump to throwing away marriage and it lessens the value of the institution and makes it more difficult for women to find men who want to marry. I committed to my husband for life. My life would have to be in danger from him before I'd break that commitment. Of course I also trust him to be a man who wouldn't break the commitment he made to me.


[-] arin1807 3 Points 11 months ago

I was raised to respect myself and understand my worth. If a man cannot respect me or the commitment he made to me by stepping outside of our marriage to cheat, then he is not worth staying married to. I would rather be single and find my own way in life than be with a man who cannot be faithful to me just to sleep around with other women. F u c k that.

"... makes it more difficult for women to find men who want to marry"

So women should overlook men who exhibit a pattern of lying, dishonesty, and infidelity just so they can find any man to marry? That is really sad.

Marriage is for those who believe in and stand by emotional and sexual fidelity; "throwing away" a marriage if either the wife or husband cheats is a completely valid reason. Your view baffles me.

[-] girlwithabike 2 Points 11 months ago

Your view baffles me.

Then RPW may not be the sub for you. It requires you to look at both your own rationale and the rationale of the opposite sex.

The reason we stress vetting is so you marry a man who does not exhibit a pattern of lying, dishonesty and infidelity. I would never advise someone to stay in a relationship pre-marriage that involves cheating.

Once you are married, and particularly once you have children, the union is something greater than you. I've been with my husband for nearly 11 years and married for 5. If he cheated on me, it would be due to some deterioration of the relationship that was at least in part my fault. He is not a man who would casually throw away his vows. So if he did that, I'd have to take a good hard look at my own failings in the relationship and see where I fell down on the job that might have contributed to him falling down on the job. It's quite rare that one person is solely responsible for the failure of a relationship.

And if you get cheated on then perhaps your worth is not as great as you originally thought it was.

You can do whatever you want with your life. Your post history shows that you are with a man who hasn't considered marrying you, so this may not ever be an issue for you. I certainly believe that if an LTR cheats then you should walk away. My point is that marriages fail at extraordinary rates. Women are the initiators of divorce in the majority of cases. This is causing men to look at the institution and question if they really need or want it. This isn't just cheaters or low value men. Good men, high value men, men who have options...these are the men who are looking and thinking that marriage is a gamble that they don't want to take. Every woman who walks away from her marriage contributes to this problem. The women who initiated divorce in our parents generation are the reason that women in our generation are struggling to find men who will consider marriage. If something did happen with my husband, I could wash my hands of the marriage and walk away with half his stuff instead of trying to fix whatever problems we both contributed to. Doing so would add to the statistics to the detriment of women younger than I am who remain you. You should be appreciative that some of us continue to value marriage and stand up for the institution "through richer or poorer and sickness and health". Saying it's sad that we feel this way is actually more sad for you.

I'm glad you have self respect and understand your worth. I understand my worth as well. I also know when to take personal responsibility for my own faults and failings. I hope that you find a man who finds you worthwhile enough to take the risk that is modern marriage in spite of your attitude.

[-] arin1807 2 Points 11 months ago

No, I don't appreciate women like you who would stick up for your husband through infidelity because that just shows men that they can cheat on their wives and still have a family to fall back on. So why not have their cake and eat it too right? They can stay married to their faithful, doting (aging) wives while sleeping with young, hot women. Why wouldn't men want to be in a marriage then?

And of course women should initiate divorces if the promises their husband made to them is not upheld. I would initiate a divorce (if i marry) if i was cheated on; I do not want to raise my children with a dishonest man and fake a happy family.

In spite of my attitude? I have spoken to many men and women (and even my current boyfriend) who agree that infidelity in relationships is grounds for divorce. There is nothing flawed about my attitude. Men and women are entitled to their options, and everyone can settle for whomever they desire. But to perpetuate this notion that divorce after infidelity in a marriage is somehow a flawed decision is absolutely ridiculous.


[-] WonderWomanxoxo 3 Points 11 months ago

Girl thank you!

[-] girlwithabike 2 Points 11 months ago


[-] WonderWomanxoxo 2 Points 11 months ago

Not to mention men and women cheat for different reasons. If my husband cheated on me it would be solely on just bc he fucked up and the girl threw a massive amount of temptation at him ect. Just because he cheated doesn't mean hes in love with another woman or even has feelings for her. Men cheat sometimes just for meaningless sex. Weird. But that's men.

[-] loneliness-inc 1 Point 11 months ago

Too many people jump to throwing away marriage and it lessens the value of the institution and makes it more difficult for women to find men who want to marry.

too many people also assume that men and women are motivated by the same motivating factors.

Case in point - sex itself doesn't hold the same meaning for men and women. Therefore, sexual infidelity doesn't have the same meaning either.

[-] [deleted] 11 months ago
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[-] WonderWomanxoxo 1 Point 11 months ago

But my husband does not do these things so your question is irrelevant.

[-] loneliness-inc 0 Points 11 months ago

wow, saying you'd stick by him indefinitely through infidelity and abuse is messed up

She said infidelity, she said nothing about sticking by him through abuse.

[-] Ruinedgirl22 4 Points 11 months ago

Almost 23 now. Thanks, though. Can’t really see that happening for me but it’s always a good hope.

[-] Ihatemost 12 Points 11 months ago

I'm 23 now and I can tell you I have much more success now with men than I ever have in the past. There's so much fearmongering here about women hitting the wall as soon as they pass 21 and other ridiculous claims. Work on yourself and you'll get back tenfolds.

[-] [deleted] 11 months ago
[-] pearlsandstilettos 4 Points 11 months ago

The plural of anecdote is not data. You aren't ready to be commenting on RPW.

[-] KittenLoves_ 6 Points 11 months ago

The plural of anecdote is not data.

I have no idea what this was in response to, but this line cracked me up.

[-] [deleted] 11 months ago
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[-] flyingmintbunnyy 19 Points 11 months ago

> I can only see loneliness in my future; marriage is a far-fetched fantasy. This, I brought entirely on myself.

I don't understand why you see this as the end if you are still young and pretty. If you simply guide yourself back to a celibate, more mindful and more gracious state you might find yourself attracted to your ex boyfriend and you can start anew.

[-] [deleted] 11 months ago
[-] Kara__El 2 Points 11 months ago

Define raised. The exact number could mean very different things, depending on how high or low.

[-] Ruinedgirl22 4 Points 11 months ago

It’s at 2. My first boyfriend and the jock. Any number above zero lessens a woman’s RMV

[-] Kara__El 14 Points 11 months ago

You're fine. It might "lessen" your RMV, but you're hardly ruined. Just don't add to it until you get committment from someone and stop being so hard on yourself, because if anything, no one's going to want someone with such low self-esteem.

[-] JJ3314 2 Points 11 months ago

I agree with you that the ideal would be an n count of zero, but I also think you are fixating on the numbers too much. The impact on your emotions, and how you relate to men, is really the concern; the n count is a good surrogate measure (for a guy) of the probability that a woman has been adversely affected by a prior relationship.

Since we live in a promiscuous culture, however, very few guys seriously care about an n count of two, as long as they feel like you genuinely want them on a physical and emotional level. (I'm talking here about guys that genuinely want to be with you long term, and aren't just plating you). This is obviously not advice that you should not to care about your partner count, because you saw how pairing with a man who just wants to plate you can be damaging. My concern would be that if you kept doing this, you would start to develop a taste for this dynamic, and that would take you further away from your presumed goal of a stable lifelong relationship with a good man.

[-] flyingmintbunnyy 1 Point 11 months ago

Her ex is giving her a chance.

[-] StinkyDiaper 12 Points 11 months ago

She won't go back to him.

As Jay-Z once said: "Once a good girl's gone bad, she's gone forever."

He would know.

[-] flyingmintbunnyy 4 Points 11 months ago

won't go back to him

This is the problem. It sounds like the obstruction in the relationship is just on her own perception.

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[-] [deleted] 11 months ago
[-] pearlsandstilettos 1 Point 11 months ago

This is not an alpha or beta quality. It is a skill. Removing this comment string.

[-] [deleted] 11 months ago
[-] bulldogdroops 16 Points 11 months ago

You’re 23. Calm down.

[-] WonderWomanxoxo 7 Points 11 months ago


[-] MoDuReddit -1 Point 11 months ago

By the time my mother was 23, she had 2 kids. She didn't want to have her kids grown when she was old. She took her degree AFTER when we were teenagers. People have different goals.

[-] WonderWomanxoxo 14 Points 11 months ago

I completely agree. Frankly when women do this it tends to annoy me. Hypergamy is the reason why all my friends are single at 29 and have no children. My friend Danielle is just a pain to talk to when it comes to men. She demands a man drink her bath water and be over 6 foot tall with s job that makes over 6 figures. This a beautiful girl and I'm 100% sure shes had "nice" guys come her way and ask her out. But they are NEVER good enough for her. I always tell her that she needs to get over herself and realize that as you get older, your dating pool gets smaller. Men who are 29-35 are trying and will date younger women. Hypergamy is poisoning the minds of women, if you have a good thing, then why let it go for a thought that you can find better? It's no guarantee that you'll stumble into the arms of your hopful upgrade after trying to branch swing to the next best thing. Me and my husband have been together for 5 years, married for 2 and we talk about how my girlfriends are so damn hypergamous.

[-] [deleted] 11 months ago
[-] 7th_Phantom 13 Points 11 months ago

You shouldn't be so hard on yourself. We are the products of our culture and the culture gave you no warning that this would happen. Ignorant little you with all of your flaws and curiosity got sucked into the maelstrom. Hypergamy was the norm and you wanted to see what the fuzz was all about. The water looked inviting. Indeed, you made a mistake, but the point is that you have (hopefully) learned and become wiser for it.

The main lesson you have learned is that you understand what is important and valuable now. The second lesson might also be that you understand just how damaging hypergamy is to everyone except for the men who enjoy the decline and exploit the chaos. This means you can now raise your children right. You can help them avoid falling into the same pit. It means you can speak up to others about what is truly meaningful and what is not. You can save others from dissolving. You might even contribute in making a change.

Learn from the lesson. Work on yourself. Heal. Be patient. You'll be okay.

[-] Ruinedgirl22 1 Point 11 months ago

Thank you so much for this. I’ve definitely learned my lesson. Sucks that I had to learn it the hard (but most common) way. The memories of my utter stupidity will haunt me forever I bet. Doesn’t help that I’m still not really over the guy. It’s like I’m an animal or something- all he really sparked was my primal, sexual attraction yet he’s the one I’m still thinking about instead of my ex who sparked actual an actual love connection.

All I can do is work on myself. Thanks again

[-] 7th_Phantom 15 Points 11 months ago

It’s like I’m an animal or something

You are an animal, Ruinedgirl. You're little more than an overcomplicated chimp. But if all we did was adhere to our biological imperatives then the world would be in ruin. Your goal is to transcend your biology, to master it, to not be its puppet. Only through this can you build a meaningful life. Only through this can you become something powerful and admirable. Do this and you will become an unstoppable force. It's what the philosophers and prophets have spoken of for millenia. It's also going to turn you into someone worth putting a ring on one day.

[-] Ruinedgirl22 1 Point 11 months ago

How can one even begin to transcend their biology? Therapy? Meditation?

[-] 7th_Phantom 8 Points 11 months ago

The first step is being cognizant. Understand how your biological drives work. Understand how, on a baseline level, female sexuality works. Find out how it may strike against you and your best interests, as happened in your cautionary tale. Understand the mechanisms, learn the signs and become conscious of the processes that linger below in the unconscious. Understand that this part of yourself is normally behind the steering wheel. Read up on The Selfish Gene theory. If you want to go straight to the source, learn some psychology. We are all born as puppets to these forces. It's never too late to become the master.

[-] Flame_Tigeress 8 Points 11 months ago

I've put myself in a situation similar to yours. Live and learn, and PLEASE stop beating yourself up over this! Everyone does things in life that they aren't proud of. You may not believe me, but you've become a better person for having had this experience. You now know what you want in a relationship and you will most definitely have it in the future. Don't under any circumstance think of yourself as ruined!

There are so many books out there that helped me in my journey from feeling rotten about myself to gaining peace. Might I suggest; "why men love bitches" and of course, the classic "what I wish I'd known before I got married".

You're a beautiful human being for having gone through this and having the courage to take responsibility for your actions. It's not about how much shit you go through, its about how you pick yourself up and carry on afterwards.

[-] vicious_troll 7 Points 11 months ago

From a red-pilled male perspective, I need to tell you that nothing is lost. On the contrary, your beta first bf was not adequate for you for a variety of reasons:

  • You had the same age. Men tend to mature later than women. Call me old-fashioned but I think a man must be 4-8 years older than his SO in order for the relationship to work out.

  • He wasn't strong enough neither did he try to self-improve. If he were, you wouldn't have thought of leaving him in the first place. It's very reasonable that you are no longer attracted to him.

  • He wasn't going to self-improve neither will he if you return to him. Instead, you'll reinforcement his begging beta attitude. And I don't need to tell you how hellish from a woman's perspective is a relationship with a weak begging beta male. Trust me, now that you left him, he'll either become a better version of himself in order to attract new girls or he'll settle for a lower-SMV gf who'll tolerate his betaness (I'm mostly certain he'll go for the first option though).

In all, I think it's a win-win situation that you guys broke up. Moreover, every cloud has a silver lining so it's good that you have the experience of an alpha douchebag guy because you now know to avoid this kind of guys all together. I strongly believe your next bf will be better in aggregate from both of them.

Cheer up, things are only going to improve ☺

[-] Flame_Tigeress 2 Points 11 months ago

Vicious Troll, I think you are the most compassionate gentle internet "troll" I have ever encountered. Your answer deserves gold! :D

[-] vicious_troll 1 Point 11 months ago

You warmed my heart young lady ❤

You wouldn't say so though if you checked my post history ????

[-] JJ3314 1 Point 11 months ago

I think they were too young, and I don't disagree with you. I think the main thing, however, is that she needs to guard herself from letting her hypergamy go into overdrive. I think she got attached to this "alpha" not just because of his relatively high SMV, but because this was a first time experience for her.

If she decided to become very promiscuous, and ended up sleeping with another 100 guys, and guy number 101 is modestly superior to this alpha, chances are she wont develop the same degree of attachment to guy number 101.

The point is that a woman has to guard herself from behaving in a way that results in her subjectively evaluating perfectly acceptable men as inferior. I think promiscuous sex brings out this characteristic in women and it's damaging to the ability to form stable marriages in society.

Incidentally, men experience these issues in their own way. Porn, for instance, certainly results in a diminished ability for men to appreciate their women, though it's not the same as the hypergamous impulse.

[-] vicious_troll 1 Point 11 months ago

I 100% agree with both of your points. Very well put.

[-] masterofthebarkarts 6 Points 11 months ago

I wanted to post something similar but I think i'll just comment here instead:

I thought I was "over" hypergamy because my fiancé, besides being both objectively and subjectively wonderful, was also very high RMV. Like, I've literally never met a 'better' man than him for almost any criteria you could consider. Recently, through friends, I met a dude who is superficially very slightly "better" than him (taller, fitter, more 'alpha', more socially dominant/confident) but whom I know very little about otherwise and who would probably be a bad partner/husband for me, if he even wanted to, which is unlikely (if I'm a 6.5/10, he's an 8.5-9/10, EASILY).

Despite this, and despite the fact that I love my fiancé like crazy, my primal monkey brain immediately started to imagine what it would be like to have New Guy as a partner. The daydreams seemed to pop up like a fungus from some deep, gooey, unconscious place and the comparison seemed almost inevitable; if fiancé isn't 'x' enough, than of course New Guy definitely will be, etc etc etc.

Obviously nothing has or will happen. There is a fairly good chance I will never see New Guy again, and I certainly won't make any effort to contact him/see him/be his friend/have him on social media/interact with him in any way/respond to any attempts on his part to interact with me. After a couple of days deliberately appreciating my fiancé and reminding myself not only how happy and lucky I am, but also how monumentally stupid those daydreams/comparisons are, they have pretty much vanished. I *know* about this stuff, and I *still* found myself doing it almost unconsciously with a guy I hung out with in a group casually for 3 hours.

I guess my point is, it can happen to anyone. The only thing you can do is observe your behaviour and try to learn from it.

[-] WonderWomanxoxo 1 Point 11 months ago

Question for you, does RMV mean remarriage value?

[-] masterofthebarkarts 2 Points 11 months ago

Relationship market value :)

[-] WonderWomanxoxo 1 Point 11 months ago

I have to commend you of being aware of your hypergamous thoughts. I feel like in some cases this is normal depending on how mentally and physically you are attracted to your guy. I couldn't imagine being with anyone other than my husband. We are pretty much both 9/10 and share the same interests and Hopes and dreams. Also the sex is mind blowing and havnt lost any interest going on 5 years now.

[-] masterofthebarkarts 2 Points 11 months ago

Thanks! And yes, I agree - we shit on hypergamy run amok and I understand why, but I don't think the desire to do "better" is always evil and that everyone should marry the first person they date; that's also stupid. But it is suuuuper surprising (and very detrimental generally) when you are in a great relationship and those thoughts come up anyway.

I think as a species it's innate to wonder "what if" or daydream about the grass on the other side being greener. I doubt there is a single happily-married woman celebrating her 50th wedding anniversary who never, ever thought for a single second about a man other than her husband. The difference now is that our expectations for marriage are insane and we're actively encouraged to dump someone the minute they stop being perfect. We're also so inflated on this rah-rah pro-woman-to-the-point-of-nonsense BS that nobody in our lives is willing to sit down and be honest with us ("you aren't so young and hot anymore. just because you like the hot guy doesn't mean he will be good for you. you are lucky to have your husband and you should be grateful for him).

I'm really happy to hear that after 5 years you and your man are still going strong <3

[-] WonderWomanxoxo 1 Point 11 months ago

Yes, i agree at given circumstances it is better to think about having an upgrade. But like you said, if its over petty bullshit and they stop being "perfect" then it's time to get a new guy I dont think that's smart. If it ain't broke then dont fix it. Some women I feel, set themselves up for failure by leaving a good thing for the greener grass. I would reconsider this if you aren't absolutely miserable and the problems can still be fixed. I feel like women need to be confident in their decisions to be with their guy. It's okay if he isn't Mr. Perfect. But does he make you happy?

[-] masterofthebarkarts 2 Points 11 months ago

Agreed (although I don't know that I would go to 'absolutely miserable'; you can be sort of okay but still incompatible in big, long-term ways, like the kids/no kids divide). But yeah: breaking up for petty reasons is pretty much always dumb. Personally I don't know if it's online "likes" that do it - I think it's the 100s of Tinder matches. Sure, even if most of them are crap, it still makes you think that you are the hottest of hot shit :D

[-] WonderWomanxoxo 1 Point 11 months ago

Lol truth be toldddddd

[-] WonderWomanxoxo 1 Point 11 months ago

I also want to add that social media like instagram has inflated the egos of us women. For example if a chick whose maybe a 5/10 posts a picture and gets a shit ton of likes and thirsty comments thinks she deserves a guy whose 9/10 because of this. This gives her self validation from the attention online.

[-] LateralThinker13 0 Points 11 months ago

It's funny because women in a study rated 80% of men below average. 80%. If you understand statistics, you know that should be 50%. But that's not how we work.

[-] WonderWomanxoxo 1 Point 11 months ago

Lol. In other words. For women a man is either attractive or not. There I'd no gray area.

[-] LateralThinker13 1 Point 11 months ago

Hypergamy isn't necessarily about losing interest. You say he's a 9/10. What if a 10/10 moved in next door? Let's be ridiculous and say Christian Grey (50 Shades) moved in. And your husband goes away on business for a month. And Christian started giving you eyes.

Not saying you'd cheat. But would you look? He stands at his poolside, shirtless and perfect. You'd not look? Not fantasize even a moment? That's hypergamy too.

Hypergamy is NOT "I'm unsatisfied, therefore I'm going to go wandering." That's typically the MALE reason for wandering. Hypergamy (branch swinging) is trading up regardless of what you have now. Going from a 9/10 to a 10/10.

[-] WonderWomanxoxo 1 Point 11 months ago

Yeah I get what your trying to say, but.. I'm super faithful. Not even thoughts like that. I blame it on my mother being hypergamous and cheating on my dad, then leaving him. I just cant see myself doing these things after having my own mother set the worst example. I look at attractive guys the same way my husband looks at attractive women.. but never thoughts about cheating or trying to get better.

[-] foxnabhya 1 Point 11 months ago

When wonder woman u are a 9 and have bagged a husband who is 9, u shouldn't be preaching ur friend Daniella (as u mentioned in other comment) that she is wrong for finding and wishing someone her equal labelling her as "hypergamous". When u don't even know the meaning of Rmv ur new to redpill and shouldn't be commenting here and giving toxic advice.

[-] WonderWomanxoxo 1 Point 11 months ago

I also want to add that me and my husband just happen to be on each others level ok. I didnt sit and wait, and judge and pass on every single man bc he wasnt good enough, if that were the case, honey I wouldn't be married:)

[-] WonderWomanxoxo 1 Point 11 months ago

You are wrong. :) but ok if you want to keep thinking you can have God then go ahead. But I'm warning you. You'll be single for a hot min. And no, I'm not new to RPW. And you dont even know the EXTENT of my friend, so please I'll speak about her if I want to.

[-] WonderWomanxoxo 1 Point 11 months ago

Oh ok thanks lol

[-] RubyWooToo 6 Points 11 months ago

If my math is correct, you’re not even 25 yet. You have plenty of opportunities still ahead of you to meet a marriage-worthy guy. Of course you made a dumb relationship decision with your teenage sweetheart; you would be an anomaly if you didn’t.

Actually I’m not even convinced that your sweetheart would’ve been the best match for you in the long term. The only qualities he possessed is that he didn’t hurt you. Well, neither did half a dozen men you probably know, but you’re not married to them either.

[-] EmotionalSupportRat 4 Points 11 months ago

You need to RELAX. Dear god. Red Pill Theory is good and practical, but you sound depressed and too much in your head about an old relationship. Forgive yourself. Sometimes losing something good helps us grow and focus on what we want. You are in the prime of your life and you can have another wonderful relationship with a great guy and you thinking straight this time. At least with a next relationship you will not have that voice in your head at age 40 "Did I squander my youth, staying with the guy I got together as a child( at 16)?" (I can nearly guarantee this would have happened). You are in a great position. Don't beat yourself up.

[-] Candyland21245 3 Points 11 months ago

you should... log off the internet for a while. you've internalized ... a LOT. staying offline for a while should help. also, seek therapy.

[-] CleburnCO 3 Points 11 months ago

Reality is real. It's a harsh teacher. Ugly lessons are often learned in pain. At least you learned it and won't repeat it. That'a a huge step in itself.

[-] VisitingfromJapan 3 Points 11 months ago

The truth is that probably both the boys in your story were not good choices. The fact that your high school sweetheart wants you back probably signals that he's still kind of low-value without any options.

nun mode for a bit then re-evaluate what you really want out of life.

[-] xelaandra23 3 Points 11 months ago

If you aren't attracted to your ex anymore, it sounds like you made the right move. I'm sure what you had with him was wonderful and what you needed at that time in your life, but it sounds like you've moved on and grown apart from him, honestly.

Don't beat yourself up too much. There are other fish in the sea.

[-] cynicalhousewife 2 Points 11 months ago

I think you were idealising the relationship you had with this young man. It obviously didn't work out for a reason, and it sounds to me like you were not attracted to him. If you had the perfect relationship, you would have stayed. A relationship cannot work without attraction.

This man wants to take you back and try again, you have that opportunity, but you won't take it, again because you don't really have romantic feelings for him. This is not because of the fact that you fell for someone else, you felt this way before.

Focus on finding a man that you have romantic feelings for who ticks enough boxes. If you can't find a man who you think is on your level, it's because you are seeing yourself as better than you actually are. Women are not attracted to men they see as below themselves. Either improve or be realistic about your own value, and things should adjust accordingly.

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[-] pearlsandstilettos 2 Points 11 months ago

I'd also suggest you try to RP your first ex, for his sake so this doesn't happen to him a second time. Whether it's "Sex God Method" by Daniel Rose, Athol Kay's Married Man's Sex Life, send him something.

Rule 0 - advice should benefit the woman. Telling her to red pill her ex is not for her benefit at all. It is also not her responsibility.

[-] 19_LadyScarlet_90 2 Points 11 months ago

We all make mistakes- some of us give into the hypergamy, some of us make different dumb choices (yo!- that's me). The important thing here is that you learned a lesson from said mistakes & don't plan on repeating them.

I lost my v card at 17 to a guy I thought I was going to be with "foreveeeeerrrr". Spoiler alert- it didn't last past 2 years. We fought a lot, & the final straw was him coming at me with a raised fist during an argument. He didn't hit me, but that was the end. Then I dated someone who did the ol' "fuck n' chuck" on me. Then I had an affair with a married man at 19, my greatest regret. I was a 19 year old kid, & I nearly ruined another couple's marriage (trust me, NOTHING is more awkward than apologizing to another man's wife about sleeping with her husband). Then I dated a weird/ loser low value male. And finally, I married a low value beta male at 20 & divorced him at 24.

I was a bit of a wreck during that entire period of my life. I believed in traditional roles within marriage. I knew I wanted a marriage to last a lifetime. But I kept making stupid decisions. It's not that I was chasing "the next best thing" while in a relationship- once was always over before I went looking again, but I had low self value, low RMV, & excepted the advances of any guy that came my way because I thought that was as good as I could get. Once i married my ex, & realized that a beta he was, & that I couldn't respect him (plus his online affair & him reverting to his gay/bi tendencies), I knew it wouldn't last & that I couldn't keep being the woman I was if I wanted to attract the right man.

During my divorce, I took a good, long look at myself & decided I needed to change. I became more fashionable. Lost some weight. Educated myself on the roles in marriage. Worked on cultivating a submissive attitude. And wouldn't you know it, I met my now husband right away. Not exactly how I planned it, but sometimes that's the way it works out (idk if you're religious or not- I knew my hubby was the man God had for me the moment i met him). Hubby knows about my past. He's got one too. We don't let that drag us down. We've learned from our mistakes & moved forward. We have a wonderful marriage.

I guess what I'm getting at is this- you can screw up, big time, & you can still have a happy marriage. Pick yourself up by your boot straps, look yourself in the mirror & tell yourself you're going to change. Then do it. You can either let your past define you, or you can learn from it & turn yourself into a stronger person. Your attitude & actions are your choice. What will you choose today?

[-] Ruinedgirl22 1 Point 11 months ago

Man, that is a lot for your early 20s! This is so inspirational, thank you. :)

[-] 19_LadyScarlet_90 2 Points 11 months ago

You're welcome! Yes, I have lived a lot for someone who is just going on 28, but I'll be damned if I let it ruin my future! Good luck to you!

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[-] pearlsandstilettos 1 Point 11 months ago

Be polite or be quiet. This comment offers nothing.

[-] WonderWomanxoxo 2 Points 11 months ago

Not sure if you are referring to me, but I'm spreading awareness of hypergamy af full swing. You dont have to agree with me but it's my opinion? I'm not attacking OP.

[-] pearlsandstilettos 2 Points 11 months ago

Nope, it was not directed at you :-)

[-] WonderWomanxoxo 2 Points 11 months ago

Oh ok thank you

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[-] always_sad12 1 Point 11 months ago

Where did this guy approach you? Also, an n-count of 2 isn’t bad. Just meet someone who strikes the balance between attractive enough to enjoy fucking while also being ready for a committed relationship.

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