Before TRP I was a traditional BP guy with BP end goals (meet my unicorn, settle down, have kids, happy ending). In order to achieve those goals I lift, got a nice 6 figure job, and take online classes. A couple months ago I broke up with my crazy ex and discovered TRP. Now my goals don't seem as clear. I understand now the disney fantasy is just a fantasy. The idea of settling down no longer brings me the same comfort it once did. In fact, the very opposite. I don't know what to do with myself now. I've had hobbies over the years but never really found enjoyment one that clicked with me. For so long my life project was building the disney fantasy. Now my life is empty of that project. It's like being stuck on a boat in the middle of the ocean. I'm trying to row towards land but there is nothing in site on the horizon. If anyone here went through something similar, I'd love some advice.
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FuckboyAWALT 6y ago
What you need is a mission, which makes you wake up at 5AM.
In addition find a passionate hobby.
tempjewman 6y ago
I struggle with this. I don't have a clearly defined mission that wakes me up early and puts me to bed late. I feel like I've lost the feeling of excitement.
FuckboyAWALT 6y ago
Well it takes time to develop a mission, make sure it’s not just a long term goal, a mission takes usually a whole life to accomplish.
Take 1h a day to think about what you want in life.
I recommend you the book ‘The unchained Alpha male 2.0’, it has a whole chapter on just finding a mission and developing your own code.
Furthermore there is a chapter in sidebar.
heightened-senses 6y ago
thanks for the book recommendation, I'm also at a loss in this whole "what to do now" thing and I need a good reference on this.
boredgod 6y ago
You were following a prescribed life plan, and now you get to find and pursue what you want. Being lost like this is the right place to be.
A man has to define himself.
chazthundergut 6y ago
The fantasy has ended.
The world of Disney princesses and fairytale innocence has crumbled into ash before your eyes.
What has emerged is the stark, cold reality. Dragons live here- not fairytale serpents but the real dragons- the addiction and trauma and abuse and psychopaths and disease and death. Danger lives here. The women aren't faithful princesses and the men aren't noble knights.
We live in a world of chaos and death.
But we also live in a world of incredible joy and beauty and life. For every bitter end there is a new beginning. For every dark valley there is a sun-tipped summit. For every failure a victory.
The real joy comes from seeing reality as it is. Seeing people and women and yourself and the world as it actually is and not what you wish it to be. And then accepting this reality, and determining to choose life anyways. To understand that life is a struggle which no man escapes alive, and then struggling anyway
I still want kids. I look back on my forefathers, upon an unbroken line of hard men who conquered wars and famine and disease and ice age and still kept fighting. Who tasted bitter defeat and death, but nevertheless carried the torch of Man into the dark unknown and passed it on to their sons.
Life is still beautiful. In fact, I find it much more beautiful now after TRP.
The stakes of this game are as high as they get. And that makes it all the more worth playing.
You just need to give it time. Don't back away from the abyss. Don't turn your face from the horror of it all. Look directly into the shadow, into the chaos of reality, and see the world as it is. And decide that life is worth living, that beauty is worth pursuing, that women are worth fucking and loving despite their nature, that it is your duty as a man and inheritor of the torch of Man to raise barbarian kings of your own to venture out into the night.
You've awoken to the fact that you aren't in Disneyland. You are in the fucking jungle, and there's lions out there trying to eat you. Do you give up like a little bitch, curl into a little ball and surrender to fate? Or do you grab a spear and go meet those fuckers head on with determination in your heart and a smile on your face?
mickey__ 6y ago
jbp?
chazthundergut 6y ago
Sure. And Rollo Tomassi. And Jocko Willink.
mickey__ 5y ago
who else brother? i get back to this passage from time to time
CrazyHorseInvincible 6y ago
+1
thewayshegoesbahd 6y ago
This should be printed. I literally felt my test elevate. This is the kind of brother i'd happily follow into a fucking war.
p_and_q 6y ago
best comment dude! this is the kind of wordsmithing i come here for.
RobertTene 6y ago
This post is a work of art.
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[deleted] 6y ago
I could understand the fucking them part, but what exactly do you get out of loving something/someone that can never genuinely love you back?
The OP only mentioned giving up on his blue pill fantasies (wife, kids, settling down). He didn't mention giving up on anything else, and he can still achieve great things without that blue pill bullshit.
So why do you seem to imply that he is "giving up like a little bitch"?
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chazthundergut 6y ago
I wasn't saying that OP was giving up like a bitch. My post was a more general challenge to men who have become "lost" after swallowing the Red Pill and awakening from their childish fantasies.
fuckboiwithfeelings 6y ago
Men can only love a women on two ways, as a mother, and as a daughter. All incest aside, you should love a women as if she were your daughter.
chazthundergut 6y ago
Going to have to disagree with you there.
I love my mother unconditionally. And she loves me unconditionally and without reservation, far beyond I am capable of loving her. She's loved me this way since before I was born, and has proven it a thousand times over.
And I will in turn love my daughter unconditionally, far beyond what she is capable of reciprocating.
I also love my sister unconditionally, but this relationship has more of a friendship love than either the way I love my mother or the way I expect to love my daughter.
On the other hand, I love and have loved many women in a completely different way. When I was younger and naive, I tried to love them the way I love my mother. That was a mistake.
During my less successful years with women, my love for them was sometimes overcome by pain and bitterness and even resentment, due to my inability to succeed with them, as well as my commitment to an idealization of women that never existed and they could never live up to. This is a normal stage in the growing process, and something that most RedPill-aware men who awaken to the reality of female nature experience. Some longer than others.
But I have grown and learned and become a man. It's easy to hate the ocean when you keep getting wiped out. But when you learn to surf, learn to tame the beast, you come to love it. You love its vastness, its challenge, its danger, its thrill. Same with chicks. I love them. Sexually, as lovers, as nature dictates. Not as a child loves his mother, not as a father loves his daughter, but as a masculine sexual man loves a feminine sexual woman.
fuckboiwithfeelings 6y ago
Good point, and I love the metapohors. But in my research I have found that in a long term relationship you should treat your wife as a daughter. Yes feelings wise she is a feminine sexual women. But scientifically, you are loving her as a daughter. This was taken straight from the red pill handbook
chazthundergut 6y ago
"Treating" your wife like a daughter is a different thing than "loving." This refers to the behavioral conditioning and communication that a man must adopt in his interactions with all women.
Holding frame, passing shit tests, playful teasing, taking leadership, not taking them too seriously, remaining unmoved by their emotional tempests, ignoring her words and judging her based on her behavior, encouraging good behavior by giving attention, discouraging bad behavior by withdrawing attention, etc. These are the fundamentals of interacting with all women in general.
But the way you love them should absolutely be different. My love for my daughter will be unconditional. My love for my wife will be conditional upon her devotion and faithfulness to me as well as her sexual availability and enthusiasm. My daughter will receive my love for life, simply by being my daughter. My wife will receive my love for as long as it's my turn with her. AWALT
So yes, you interact with women following the same general principles. But I don't love them the same way at all, and I never plan too. Regardless of the RedPill handbook.
[deleted] 6y ago
Okay I can understand your sentiments better now.
But what I don't get, is how can you rationalize loving something that you always have to be careful around? Something that could fuck you up whenever they feel like it?
I can't imagine enjoying something if I always have to keep my guard up around it 24/7. It would be like having a bomb in your pocket.
chazthundergut 6y ago
First of all, there are tons of things I love that require my full care and attention.
I love shooting and guns, for example. But I always exercise firearm safety discipline and treat all guns as loaded.
I love surfing and backpacking. But I never let my guard down.
I love grappling and boxing and martial arts. But I protect myself at all times.
I love lifting. But I always use good form.
In fact, all of the things in life that actually deserve your love carry with them enormous risk and the potential to fuck you up. Does this mean we should stay away from them and live in fear? Am I going to stop surfing because I got wiped out and almost drowned? Do I stop backpacking because I almost got mauled by a mother bear? Do I stop shooting because guns can kill you? Nope.
Secondly, you need to spend some time away from the sub and get out there and start meeting women. I understand the cruelty of women and the many dangers they bring to the table. But once you've got the awareness, a bit of game, and you become a self-validating man who is grounded in his own reality- women are wonderful.
It isn't at all like you'd think reading all these disaster stories on here. TRP is like a burn victims support group. Of course you're going to get a skewed idea about fire and how dangerous it is by staying in this bubble.
And I've been burned myself, believe me. I'm not saying women don't carry risk. But the rewards are amazing. And like I said, once you've figured your shit out it isn't difficult at all to have wonderful experiences and deep emotional connections with women. It isn't anything like walking around with a bomb in your pocket, or a loaded gun against your head. Don't live in fear. You are meant to couple with women like lock and key. Just learn the game, master your life, and master your self. Then get out there and surf.
[deleted] 6y ago
Firearm safety is contingent on YOUR actions, meaning if you do everything right, you'll be safe. However with women, you can do everything right and still get fucked over.
Again, you do everything right and you should be safe, barring a natural disaster you can't control. Still not a fair comparison to dealing with a woman.
This comparison sucks too. If your skill level is better than the opponent, you will win. The result is contingent on YOU. Still not a fair comparison to being with a woman.
Again, same shit. You do everything right, and you're good. Can't say the same for dealing with a woman.
Those things pass the risk/reward evaluation in your head. The rewards from engaging in those activities make the risks worthwhile.
Other than pussy, what else do you get from a woman that make all the risks associated with her worth taking?
Again, other than pussy, I'm genuinely interested in what you get from women that you couldn't get from yourself or from family/male friends?
chazthundergut 6y ago
Besides the firearm example, all the activities I listed have a very high amount of external variability that means I could do everything right and still get fucked up. Surfing, backpacking, grappling, boxing, basically everything involving the real world.
But what is the point? Ok, women are a wild card. You can't control their every move. You can reduce risk through RedPill awareness, maximizing SMV, game, vetting, etc. But still, I'll agree that they still pose a great deal of variable risk.
So what's the point? Am I going to stop fucking chicks and developing relationships and cultivating lovers? Fuck no.
There is nothing I need from women. I can survive and thrive without them, and in fact I had to get to that place in my life before things got really easy with them.
But women definitely improve my life. Sex for sure, but it is more than that. I am a conventionally masculine man. Having a sexy, feminine woman (or women) in my life is extremely natural and fits me like a glove.
Even if I try to avoid women, they get pulled into my orbit all the time now. And how can I resist? The way they look, the way they smell and feel, that surrender in the moment when they tilt their head back and laugh. Their presence and passion. The way their emotional storms do not shake me- in fact they further ground me in my reality. Women are like a grindstone. To the plugged-in beta, they will grind you down into dust. To the RedPill-aware man who knows the game, they will sharpen you and keep your edge honed.
But look, I'm not trying to convince you. I had to go through a long period of failure with women, and when I finally started to figure things out I defensively kept things superficial. And if you get everything you need from your friends and yoursef, good on you dude! Keep it up. But if you haven't had a close intimate relationship with a woman as a high-SMV RedPill aware man with game because you're afraid of the possible negative consequences- then I suggest you take a step of courage and try it out. Do not live in fear because they are a wildcard you have no control over.
To me, having a sexy feminine woman in my life who adores me and with whom I am emotionally connected adds a flavor and color to my life that I cannot get from my close friends or myself. Like I said, it's not something I need. But it definitely improves my life, in my subjective opinion.
And I'm not saying this because I've got one-itis and I'm trying to justify my relationship. I don't have a girlfriend right now, and no exclusive commitments. But I've got women. And I love them all. Not that I tell them that hehe
[deleted] 6y ago
What does this mean though? What value do you get from simply having a "sexy woman" by your side? Since you don't list any tangible benefits (other than sex), I can only assume it is for validation. If so, that would be pathetic. You validate yourself. You don't need someone else (especially a trophy) to get validation.
Or does your definition of a "conventionally masculine man" include having a sexy woman? And any man without one isn't a "conventionally masculine man"? That would make sense if its the case; people define masculinity in different ways.
How, exactly? How can a woman keep you sharp in ways that conventional ways cannot? You mention all things good things to be gained from living with women, but never say exactly what they are. I'm really trying to see the value in what they offer you, but you're speaking in platitudes.
Unless you mean they keep you sharp only in situations dealing with women, and not keep you sharp over the course of life's obstacles in general... then I would understand that.
How do you know and trust that this is true? I can understand that believing a woman "adores you" this is a good feeling, but at the same time it must come with a semblance of willful ignorance to believe in something that cannot be fully proven (like the existence of God). Also, doesn't the RP doctrine teach that a woman can never love/adore a man?
I say this because I have seen and experienced directly women telling a man they love them, yet perform actions behind their back that portray the opposite. I figure if you're not in the top 5% of men, and a woman chooses to fuck you, she could easily fuck anybody. What is so special about you that she couldn't easily get somewhere else? You're not Brad Pitt, or a billionaire in Dubai.
I guess its comparable to being a passenger on an airplane. I would never know if my pilot woke up that day and thought "fuck it, I'm going out and I'm taking everyone with me". I just have to put my life in his hands in order to get where I want to go. Maybe its the same for you with women: how do you just let go, knowing that you could be played at any moment? I'm too rational of a person and I have a hard time believing things I cannot objectively verify myself, so I want to understand the mind of someone who can just let go and live without having to verify something so important.
chazthundergut 6y ago
I'll do my best to answer these questions point-by-point.
Much of the value I get from women is "intangible" yes. There is sex, and that is important. I also enjoy having female company (sometimes). I enjoy building emotional connections and relationships. This also makes the sex better (IMO), but again it isn't just about the sex. What do I get out of backpacking? Or reaching a summit? Or catching a wave? These are the intangible things in life that I enjoy. I can't really explain all of them; they are valuable for the experience itself. Loving and being loved is one of those things. I don't get money or something tangible out of it, but the experience itself is valuable to me.
Yes, I also do get validation from being with sexy women. I know I shouldn't, but I am only human. I am self-validating in that I don't need a woman to feel great about myself. I am already the man, with or without her. But yes, it does feel good to have a sexy woman on my arm. I'm a pretty fat guy, and I love the feeling I get when people see me with a girl who looks way out of my league, and I can feel them wondering how the fuck I bagged her. I feel good when I have unread texts from several different chicks. It boosts my ego to have a beautiful woman begging me to fuck her. It feels good to wake up to a warm sexy woman pressed up against me. It feels good to be desired, to be wanted, to be needed. Like I said, it shouldn't, but I'm only human. Again, I don't need any of it, but it does feel good. If that makes me pathetic, then so be it.
I don't think the term "conventionally masculine" necessarily means being with a sexy chick. I meant it more in terms of my strength, my stoicism, my leadership, my hobbies and interests, my friendships, and my style of communication. And it just feels very natural for me to have a feminine woman around me, who naturally follows my lead, pleases me sexually, and looks up to me for guidance and strength. It feels natural and it feels good, to be honest. This might not be the case for all men, but it is the case for me. And as I said, the further along my path as a man (as I define it for my own benefit) I progress, the more women seem to just get drawn in and find me, even when I'm not looking. This was not the case when I was floating through life without a purpose, physically and emotionally weak.
Becoming "good" with women has absolutely sharpened me as a man. I have learned a lot about how to communicate through behavior, judge people's intentions, and especially maintain my frame in the face of social and environmental pressure. I've also become more of a leader, more socially dominant, and more decisive. Not all of it comes from women directly, but I have definitely noticed an uptick in my social skills generally as I've become more experienced with women. Now, all of this is contingent upon redpill awareness and effective game. If you're a plugged-in beta, then having a girlfriend will not aid in your growth or "sharpen your edge." You will get worn down by the constant testing and eventually ground up into dust.
I judge a woman's level of adoration strictly on her behavior (never her words). Maybe she doesn't adore me at all. But when she comes over to my place, cooks for me, does my laundry, cleans up my house, and then gives me a blowjob while I'm playing Call of Duty I feel pretty reasonable in concluding that she's into me. A few months ago I got stranded out of town on a canoe trip with no phone (long story). I got a message out, and my mom posted something on facebook, and one of my chicks dropped everything and drove for 6 hours straight to "rescue" me, and she gave me about $200 to boot. And this isn't even a girl I'm exclusive with. What is this, if not adoration?
"RP Doctrine" might teach that a woman can't love a man. I think it's more nuanced than that- it teaches that a woman can never love a man the way he wants to be loved. It teaches that women do not love unconditionally, but rather opportunistically. In either case, I know what my own experiences have been. Yes, women can burn you. They can break your heart and hurt you. They can cheat on you. But again, this sub will give you a very one-sided perspective on chicks. Once you've boosted your SMV, have some game, and are fully immersed in your own life's purpose, I think you'll find that women are quite capable of love. That doesn't mean you can let your guard down or ever lose your edge. But yea, women absolutely do love and adore men. You've just got to be the right man.
I'm not Brad Pitt, and I'm not a billionaire. Honestly you don't need to be. Just be a man. Don't let all the horror stories here frighten you. Use them to motivate yourself to become the sharpest and strongest version of yourself. But don't let them keep you from experiencing a woman's love and devotion. Just be careful, keep your head on straight, and remember that AWALT. But also have some fun with it. Life's too short.
So that's me and my perspective. Again, I'm not trying to tell you how to live your life. If you are happy without women in your life, good on you. I'm just saying don't let fear hold you back. Women are a lot more fun and a lot less scary than what you'd think just reading TRP. And so are relationships and connections. But if you are a low value man, or inexperienced, or you don't have game, then please be cautious. Focus on yourself first.
[deleted] 6y ago
Thank you for this comment, it gave me a lot to think about.
[deleted]
CutLiver 6y ago
I don't believe you for a second. You have a six figure job and you're complaining that you're lost? You're lying out of your ass dude. Maybe some of the other guys in here don't see it but it's pretty fucking obvious that you are. Even if you're serious (maybe a 5% chance), you need to get a grip on your life.
p_and_q 6y ago
Not lying. I'm a software developer. Companies pay big bucks for people who know how to code well.
[deleted] 6y ago
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[deleted] 6y ago
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BestSC86 6y ago
Who told that?
They were stupid.....
[deleted] 6y ago
Yeah... I can't imagine going to South Dakota or Montana for tourism
Davidisnotswole 6y ago
Those are some of the best States for tourism. Especially for a man whose lost, a week or two in the pristine nature of, Badlands South Dakota, Yellowstone Montana, or Rocky mountains in Montana could help any man. The real boring states are Delaware, North Dakota and Kansas.
Steve_O-- 6y ago
Travel! Go to fucking amazing places by yourself. You'll find that real quick, and you'll meet some cool people along the way.
You're free! Best gift a man can have.
BiggieTheDoc 6y ago
Used to be just like you, total BP, huge case of oneitis, obviously that didn’t go well, found TRP and said fuck it. Best decision of my life, at first I was lost and didn’t want to believe any of it but trust me it gets waaay better, as time goes on you start to understand the way shit is, once you understand the way shit is you can use that understanding to better your life and that’s when the real fun starts. But I strongly believe that having solid hobbies is very important, a hobby that you truly love doing. For me if something goes wrong and I can’t get my mind off something I go in my garage and work on my mustang, gets my mind off anything.
WISE_TURD 6y ago
Sounds like you're doing fine and just dealing with a codependency issue. This happens to a lot of people after breaking up with their cunt ex gfs.
Take a look at maslow's hierarchy of needs and knock everything out starting from the bottom.
Some tips:
Finding your mission's important, but right now you mission is to spin some plates and to be selfish for a while. Also, never talk to your ex ever again. Consider blocking her number. Cheers.
p_and_q 6y ago
that first nugget of wisdom was something i didn't even consider and you're totally right. thanks for helping be identify that. a lot of other great stuff here to think about.
[deleted] 6y ago
You're not into politics, business, nonprofit work, etc? My end goal is to make the world a better place. A goal was to have a partner by my side, but that fantasy is dead too by taking TRP.
Is there anything that you care about besides women? Do you have any family members with disabilities? Start a nonprofit. Are you passionate about your field? Take a plunge and start a company. Are you religious? Find some meaning in that, although most religions are very BP. Good luck
Rares5555 6y ago
Keep the figures up, keep the lifting, keep the health up.
The only happy ending you should look for is you being the king of your life.
Drakonlord 6y ago
Been there man. Its a tough fucking road and sometimes I think Id be better without trp.
You know its just you now. Your goal is to be passionate about your story.
OMGtothemoon 6y ago
Well at least you're aware now. You're ahead of the game with the 6 figure job. Now go find a hobby.
BestSC86 6y ago
It is temporary....then you will find that TRP is just as full of stupid as the Disney shit and the same number of idiots.
It's most major influence will be that you aren't looking for some unicorn as your life goal and thereby overlooking tons of red flags just because you want a girl to be that unicorn because she has nice tits and a smooth ass.
But then after a little time you will realize that this reddit has just as many idiots parading around as the BP forum and Disney....then you will realize that in reality women are just people trying to figure this shit out just like you and usually failing as well. Then you will find that you can indeed have comfortable relationships with women on your terms because you are no longer investing your entire fucking emotional state on the girl and her behavior.
You will quickly come to see which TRPer are the real shit and which aren't. Hint, it isn't the ones bitching that all women are cheating sluts and claiming that you have to HARD NEXT them if they go to the grocery store without you. Those are the wannabes who are still stuck in beta land because their entire internal emotional state is based on whether are keeping their girl from cheating on them. Every action from them is looking for signs they are being cuckold and mate guarding their women to keep them away from other men in the worry that if she meets other dudes she will realize they are losers and go with the other dude.
Once you understand the real BP is that you have been tying your value as a man on the validation of a girl and her commitment to you...then you can have comfortable relationships with women.